Elucid
Pearannoyed
Are these ww2 numbers?
yup
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Are these ww2 numbers?
I like the general idea of having a way to measure someone's manufacturing capabilities, and the HOI4 system does have its merits, but can you give us an idea of how the system is going to work IG? Are differant types of guns going to have different costs in terms of military factories? Are we also going to be implementing the HOI4 resource system? and what about things not present in the game, say I wanted to build a new city in my country to help the homeless population, would that still be using a system of civilian factories?
As for the list we might need to edit it a bit to counter from changes in between WWI and WWII since many countries hadn't industrialized and others have either changed their borders considerably (Russia, Germany, China etc) or outright don't exist (Austria-Hungary, the Ottomans) there's also the issue with ahistorical border changes like Sweden and Finland and the London Conference. If you want to look into it, there's a WWI mod for HOI4 that's pretty good that could be used as a frame of reference.
I think they should be divided downward. WwI did not have nearly the same production as ww2 time period.
I know what you're talking about but I wouldn't be able to grab those numbers until 4 March.
In regards to production, the system will remain the same. For those willing, you can do your own math. Otherwise, I'll input the numbers into my google sheet and give you an ETA for the production of (for example) 90,000 units of X rifle (being Infantry Equipment I)
Agreed. These are just the only numbers that I do have.
If you need help getting the stats early I'm willing to help out, it shouldn't be too much trouble to get numbers for the claimed nations.
[SIZE=11pt]Country[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Civilian[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Military[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Naval[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Brazil[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5/9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Austria-Hungary[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]28/39 + 1*[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]12[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Sweden[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4/7 +2**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2 +1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3 +1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]China[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]33/53[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Italy[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]19/26[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]USA[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]52/95[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]11[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]14[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Australia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Germany[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]41/57[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]23[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Russia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]28/38 - 2**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]11 -1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8 -1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Spain[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]7/13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Greece[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]British Raj[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]6/10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Bulgaria[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5/8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]France[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]15/28[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]United Kingdom[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]24/39[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]21[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Albania[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0/0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Romania[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4/7[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Norway[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Denmark[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Serbia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Thrace[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0/0 + 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0 + 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0 + 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Ottoman Empire[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]11/16 - 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8 - 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5 - 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]*Full annexation of Bosnia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]**Russia secedes Finland to Sweden[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]***The London Conference in its current form[/SIZE]
The problem with this system is, as you can see, Albania for example has absolutely no ability to produce anything. In game the only way to gain factories of any kind is through your national focus tree. Sadly however in real life there is no way to magically build factories within 70 days because you just really really want one. So, with this system, I will never be able to produce anything on my own at any point in time unless I get somebody else to build me factories even though the land that I have claimed has several cities with populations in the tens of thousands. What do you think employs these thousands of urban dwellers? Farming? Flower shops? Grocery stores? No, urban areas are generally known to be the epicenter of mass production, though apparently my people have a total of 0 factories of any kind and dwell in old Amish communities where they make everything by hand and it takes them months to build a single barn.
Honestly I agree that we can't just use numbers taken straight from the game, since, as you can see it really screws over a lot of smaller countries who wont ever be able to build anything really.
On a more personal note it also kind of devalues the whole idea of the Balkan War as, since the only one who gained anything of actual value from the war was the buffer state, meaning at most that whole conference was me arguing over half a factory.
[SIZE=11pt]Country[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Civilian[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Military[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Naval[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Brazil[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5/9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Austria-Hungary[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]28/39 + 1*[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]12[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Sweden[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4/7 +2**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2 +1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3 +1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]China[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]33/53[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Italy[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]19/26[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]USA[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]52/95[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]11[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]14[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Australia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Germany[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]41/57[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]23[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Russia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]28/38 - 2**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]11 -1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8 -1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Spain[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]7/13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Greece[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]British Raj[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]6/10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Bulgaria[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5/8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]France[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]15/28[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]United Kingdom[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]24/39[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]21[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Albania[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0/0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Romania[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4/7[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Norway[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Denmark[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Serbia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Thrace[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0/0 + 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0 + 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0 + 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Ottoman Empire[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]11/16 - 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8 - 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5 - 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]*Full annexation of Bosnia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]**Russia secedes Finland to Sweden[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]***The London Conference in its current form[/SIZE]
I think it's realistic in the numbers and which is why the smaller countries need to focus our efforts on alliances, trade and technology with the larger more powerful countries. We can't expect to build up to their levels within any short timeframe. I vote that we use the WWI statistics for factories.
I think it's realistic in the numbers and which is why the smaller countries need to focus our efforts on alliances, trade and technology with the larger more powerful countries. We can't expect to build up to their levels within any short timeframe. I vote that we use the WWI statistics for factories. Also, Romania has officially annexed Transylvania from Austria-Hungary, so any factories apart of that become Romanian.
I think it's realistic in the numbers and which is why the smaller countries need to focus our efforts on alliances, trade and technology with the larger more powerful countries. We can't expect to build up to their levels within any short timeframe. I vote that we use the WWI statistics for factories. Also, Romania has officially annexed Transylvania from Austria-Hungary, so any factories apart of that become Romanian.
Where's the source for the origin of these numbers? Maybe a game is designed for realism, but most still radically adjust numbers to add balance with the mechanics so that it's actually fun to play.
I don't really want to see this become number intensive, especially when the numbers come from a third party video game.
I mean, do we have anything to back them up other than the producer's reputation?
It's based on Hearts of Iron IV. I agree that the numbers are morphed to fit a video game (and so is the naval production mechanics). The only reason I'm pushing it is because it removes any of our biases and provides a fairly credible/logical start.
Because I realize that some players are getting screwed over, I'm saying that we give each player an optional 10 or 20 extra factories that may either be civilian or military.
We have to balance fun and realism, I agree with Shepard on this. Adding 10 extra for each nation will help add that fun factor. I am still a little confused about the way modifiers work and would like to know more on that.
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