Elucid
Pearannoyed
yup
-
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Nation Building The Last War OOC
- Thread starter HeckingHeck
- Start date
yup
Spiffy
New Member
I think they should be divided downward. WwI did not have nearly the same production as ww2 time period.
Shepard
The Not-So-Rottenfuhrer
I know what you're talking about but I wouldn't be able to grab those numbers until 4 March.
In regards to production, the system will remain the same. For those willing, you can do your own math. Otherwise, I'll input the numbers into my google sheet and give you an ETA for the production of (for example) 90,000 units of X rifle (being Infantry Equipment I)
Agreed. These are just the only numbers that I do have.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hypnos
L'Empereur
If you need help getting the stats early I'm willing to help out, it shouldn't be too much trouble to get numbers for the claimed nations.
Shepard
The Not-So-Rottenfuhrer
If you would - please
Hypnos
L'Empereur
[SIZE=11pt]Country[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Civilian[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Military[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Naval[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Brazil[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5/9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Austria-Hungary[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]28/39 - 1* ****[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]12 - 1* ****[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Sweden[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4/7 +2**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2 +1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3 +1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]China[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]33/53[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Italy[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]19/26[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]USA[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]52/95[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]11[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]14[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Australia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Germany[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]41/57[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]23[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Russia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]28/38 - 2**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]11 -1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8 -1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Spain[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]7/13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Greece[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]British Raj[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]6/10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Bulgaria[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5/8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]France[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]15/28[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]United Kingdom[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]24/39[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]21[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Albania[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0/0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Romania[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4/7 + 2****[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1 + 1****[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Norway[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Denmark[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Serbia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Thrace[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0/0 + 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0 + 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0 + 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Ottoman Empire[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]11/16 - 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8 - 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5 - 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]*Full annexation of Bosnia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]**Russia secedes Finland to Sweden[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]***The London Conference in its current form[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]****Austria-Hungary secedes [/SIZE][SIZE=14.6667px]Transylvania to Romania[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Civilian[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Military[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Naval[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Brazil[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5/9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Austria-Hungary[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]28/39 - 1* ****[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]12 - 1* ****[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Sweden[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4/7 +2**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2 +1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3 +1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]China[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]33/53[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Italy[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]19/26[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]USA[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]52/95[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]11[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]14[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Australia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Germany[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]41/57[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]23[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Russia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]28/38 - 2**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]11 -1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8 -1**[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Spain[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]7/13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Greece[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]British Raj[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]6/10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Bulgaria[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5/8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]France[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]15/28[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]United Kingdom[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]24/39[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]21[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Albania[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0/0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Romania[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4/7 + 2****[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1 + 1****[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Norway[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Denmark[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Serbia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Thrace[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0/0 + 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0 + 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]0 + 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Ottoman Empire[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]11/16 - 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8 - 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5 - 1***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]*Full annexation of Bosnia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]**Russia secedes Finland to Sweden[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]***The London Conference in its current form[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]****Austria-Hungary secedes [/SIZE][SIZE=14.6667px]Transylvania to Romania[/SIZE]
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Leusis
Two Thousand Club
The problem with this system is, as you can see, Albania for example has absolutely no ability to produce anything. In game the only way to gain factories of any kind is through your national focus tree. Sadly however in real life there is no way to magically build factories within 70 days because you just really really want one. So, with this system, I will never be able to produce anything on my own at any point in time unless I get somebody else to build me factories even though the land that I have claimed has several cities with populations in the tens of thousands. What do you think employs these thousands of urban dwellers? Farming? Flower shops? Grocery stores? No, urban areas are generally known to be the epicenter of mass production, though apparently my people have a total of 0 factories of any kind and dwell in old Amish communities where they make everything by hand and it takes them months to build a single barn.
Hypnos
L'Empereur
Honestly I agree that we can't just use numbers taken straight from the game, since, as you can see it really screws over a lot of smaller countries who wont ever be able to build anything really.
On a more personal note it also kind of devalues the whole idea of the Balkan War, since the only one who gained anything of actual value from the war was the buffer state, meaning at most that whole conference was me arguing over half a factory.
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Leusis
Two Thousand Club
HOI4 prides itself on its realism, and they should, they made a very realistic game with a shit load of numbers running behind the scenes. However, compared to the actuality of history, there game is unbelievable simplistic, unable to account for 99% of what was really going on. Using a game that grasps for reality but only gets a hold on a few straws for an in depth historical rp seems ludicrous.
Once again though, not knocking HOI4, I love the game, just saying there are very heavy limitations on what a game can manage these days.
Spiffy
New Member
I think it's realistic in the numbers and which is why the smaller countries need to focus our efforts on alliances, trade and technology with the larger more powerful countries. We can't expect to build up to their levels within any short timeframe. I vote that we use the WWI statistics for factories. Also, Romania has officially annexed Transylvania from Austria-Hungary, so any factories apart of that become Romanian.
Last edited by a moderator:
Leusis
Two Thousand Club
You're telling me that as of 1914, Brazil, the industrial powerhouse of South America, with a population of 24 million people and a territory of over 3.2 million square miles only has a total of 11 factories in its entirety? That Australia, pretty much a kangaroo filled Britain 2.0 who had extensive industrial efforts placed on them by their british overlords only has a total of 8 factories despite having a population of 5 million and nearly 3 million square miles of land? If you honestly believe these numbers are anywhere near accurate for these nations, I think you need to do more extensive research on the time in which this rp is taking place. In America during the time there were about 10 million citizens employed in manufacturing jobs. Do you think 120 factories and ship yards can even contain that many people? That'd mean 83,333 people would need to be working in each individual location. These numbers are false and are only a means for a game to balance itself between the super powers and the weaker nations, that is the bottom line.
Hypnos
L'Empereur
The issue isn't the difference between major powers and minor powers, which is perfectly fine. The problem lies with the fact that in HOI4 the game the stats are taken from, there's a way to get an extra few factories free with a countries nation focus tree. These stats were made with that in mind and the extra factories are often necessary to get a country off the ground during the early stages of the game. Without the national focus trees it's almost impossible for small nations to build anything at all which leaves them in eternal stagnation.
Shepard
The Not-So-Rottenfuhrer
I like the new numbers but some may need to be changed. Because a challenge would be nice and I personally think it'd take too long to go through repealing and appealing, let's give everyone the option of increasing their own starting statistics by a total of 10 factories for minor nations and 20 for major ones.
In response to Albania, you're right. You wouldn't. You would maybe have two. However, since implementing national focuses would be a hassle, so long as you do anything in your turn that is - in some way - a "national focus" or similar, then the "Building of x factories to be completed this turn" will pop up in each turn.
If if you look at the live moderation, the USA and Sweden have that.
In response to Albania, you're right. You wouldn't. You would maybe have two. However, since implementing national focuses would be a hassle, so long as you do anything in your turn that is - in some way - a "national focus" or similar, then the "Building of x factories to be completed this turn" will pop up in each turn.
If if you look at the live moderation, the USA and Sweden have that.
Hypnos
L'Empereur
I need to find myself a nice neighbor who is willing to give me some of their land for free, because right now, all of my neighbors are dicks.
Shepard
The Not-So-Rottenfuhrer
Also, let's not worry about building slots
Shepard
The Not-So-Rottenfuhrer
Great job by the way.
Also, because we don't have a set list of "Modifiers", any R&D or dedicated factories can be used as Modifers for production such as "Detroit Arsenal (Infantry Equipment) - 8" receiving a modifier of 0.30 for infantry equipment
NorthOfOrdinary
Princess of Pumpkin Spice
Where's the source for the origin of these numbers? Maybe a game is designed for realism, but most still radically adjust numbers to add balance with the mechanics so that it's actually fun to play.
I don't really want to see this become number intensive, especially when the numbers come from a third party video game.
I mean, do we have anything to back them up other than the producer's reputation?
I don't really want to see this become number intensive, especially when the numbers come from a third party video game.
I mean, do we have anything to back them up other than the producer's reputation?
Shepard
The Not-So-Rottenfuhrer
It's based on Hearts of Iron IV. I agree that the numbers are morphed to fit a video game (and so is the naval production mechanics). The only reason I'm pushing it is because it removes any of our biases and provides a fairly credible/logical start.
Because I realize that some players are getting screwed over, I'm saying that we give each player an optional 10 or 20 extra factories that may either be civilian or military.
Spiffy
New Member
We have to balance fun and realism, I agree with Shepard on this. Adding 10 extra for each nation will help add that fun factor. I am still a little confused about the way modifiers work and would like to know more on that.
Shepard
The Not-So-Rottenfuhrer
The formula for production of one item is this:
(# of factories) x (5(1.00+[Modifeier])*[Efficeincy] = production points
production points/ cost = units produced
Modifiers include industrial technology, individual technological development, and significant economic/political actions.
Shepard
The Not-So-Rottenfuhrer
An anonymous cheetah has entered the moderation
Spiffy
New Member
How goes the moderation btw? Do you think you can finish by tonight?
Shepard
The Not-So-Rottenfuhrer
I'm finishing UK right now, about to go on to Albania. I don't have anyone's operations. I'll be done by Sunday for people to read it Sunday...day. If you edit your turns, please let me know
Shepard
The Not-So-Rottenfuhrer
Construction system is complete
Shepard
The Not-So-Rottenfuhrer
Name
Cost
# of Factories
Production Points
Modifer
Buildings Constructed
34
Daily
Monthly
Turn
Turn
Civilian Factory
7200
20
100
3,000
9,000
10.00%
1.39
Military Factory
3600
12
60
1,800
5,400
0.00%
1.50
Naval Dockyard
3250
2
10
300
900
0.00%
0.28
Air Base
1250
0
0
0
0
0.00%
0.00
Naval Base
3000
0
0
0
0
0.00%
0.00
Infrastructure
3000
0
0
0
0
0.00%
0.00
Fortification
500
0
0
0
0
0.00%
0.00
Cost
# of Factories
Production Points
Modifer
Buildings Constructed
34
Daily
Monthly
Turn
Turn
Civilian Factory
7200
20
100
3,000
9,000
10.00%
1.39
Military Factory
3600
12
60
1,800
5,400
0.00%
1.50
Naval Dockyard
3250
2
10
300
900
0.00%
0.28
Air Base
1250
0
0
0
0
0.00%
0.00
Naval Base
3000
0
0
0
0
0.00%
0.00
Infrastructure
3000
0
0
0
0
0.00%
0.00
Fortification
500
0
0
0
0
0.00%
0.00
