Dice Robotech: Army of the Southern Cross - OOC thread

[GunMan2]

Yes but as we know the dice are a fickle mistress. And we like i said be in very deep trouble but these politics/militatry ops are what these games are all about. Ok so lets recap. Barnes and Scotsman at the door, once Kitty opens the door with her weapon and then flash the place, grab the target and any other electronics and then get the heck out of dodge with Anthonia and our tanks.

 

[Purr]

I don't know what you mean in the last by "our tanks," but otherwise, I think you've got it pegged. This is just a snatch-and-grab mission; our tanks aren't involved. At least, that I'm aware of. Um, if they do get involved, then things have probably gone south.

Very south! Heh! =)

 

[GunMan2]

Sorry i forgot the proper term Verithech. But yeah i can see it going bad if we do take them. So best stick to the plan. Sorry one of my chars in DND died about 24 hours ago and kind feel a confused.

 

[Psychie]

With your decision made, I just need to have Purr start off the hijinks with a post about Kitty shooting out the lock. There is no roll needed; just state what you are doing. Once Dann has posted, Sherwood and GunMan2 can post your actions of tossing in the flashbangs and moving in after they go off.

 

[Purr]

Sorry i forgot the proper term Verithech. But yeah i can see it going bad if we do take them. So best stick to the plan. Sorry one of my chars in DND died about 24 hours ago and kind feel a confused.

Aw, man! What a drag! I hope you have kept that character sheet around. Just because that character died in one campaign doesn't mean that you can't use them in another. =)

 

[GunMan2]

Yeah still got it as a digital copy and such Buuuttt...The campaign version got it worse. At least this one was dead, the vc one...They got corrupted into a deadly shadown assasin where their alt personality is the main one and does a lot of thing in a world where darkness now reigns supreme.

 

[Purr]

Oof! That definitely sounds like "worse" to me!

 

[Psychie]

GunMan2 Just waiting on your IC post about what you wish to do.

 

[Purr]

I recommend three simultaneous flashbangs be thrown into her area followed by Steven and using twin stun batons to fully incapacitate her.

Psychie Part of Kitty's plan involved the use of our stun batons? No chance of Antonia getting away or calling for help or even talking back. If it were up to me, I would prefer she woke up in a GMP cell.

Also, I wanted our smartphones recording the entire incident?

 

[Purr]

The single shot from Kitty's pistol rings out, shattering the lock.

Psychie Um, also I specifically had Kitty user suppressed M-84 because the shot would not ring out?

The sound of a few flashbangs inside of a base might be thought of as something else, but the sound of even a single gunshot - especially on a military post - is pretty distinct.

 

[GunMan2]

Psychie Um, also I specifically had Kitty user suppressed M-84 because the shot would not ring out?

The sound of a few flashbangs inside of a base might be thought of as something else, but the sound of even a single gunshot - especially on a military post - is pretty distinct.

Technically, a suppressor just makes it not flash but it will still be loud.

 

[Purr]

I believe it depends on the suppressor in question: Kitty's is specifically a sound suppressor, not a flash suppressor.

Spoiler: Sound vs. Flash in case anyone is interested

Sound suppressors help muffle sound. Flash suppressors (a.k.a. flash hiders) help to muffle muzzle flash. The first of these videos are marked at the spot in the video where the demonstration takes place. =)

"What Suppressors Really Sound Like"
The real benefit (to me) about using a sound suppressor is that the sound is generally less identifiable as a gunshot (many who hear it might think the sound is something else entirely).


"Why a flash suppressor is useful" A flash suppressor helps to stop what takes place in the video. =)


Extra credit: Good video on muzzle brakes vs. flash hiders. The flash hider videos will show the big difference between the two.
"Muzzle Brake vs Flash Hider Test"

 

[Purr]

Now that I've edited/added to that post up there for the fifth time, I think I'm finally happy with it. Heh! =)

Of course, ammunition plays an important role here, but hey, this is role-playing game and not some kind of modern warfare simulator, right? =)

 

[Psychie]

Purr You are correct; I forgot that you specified that you were using the suppressed weapon to keep the noise level down. But the triple blast from the flashbangs do ring out pretty loud, so there is still an alarm going off in the base with people moving quickly trying to figure out just what the hell that big blast was.

 

[Sherwood]

Just so long as we can get our prisoner out to the APC without a pitched firefight with our own people, I'll be happy.

 

[Purr]

Purr You are correct; I forgot that you specified that you were using the suppressed weapon to keep the noise level down. But the triple blast from the flashbangs do ring out pretty loud, so there is still an alarm going off in the base with people moving quickly trying to figure out just what the hell that big blast was.

Edit: I just realized this is coming across more negatively then I mean to express. I'm mildly frustrated but no more than that. And it's not the only reason for my feelings right now. Editing!

Psychie I never had a problem with the flashbangs. Or alarms. I 3xpected alarms. It's the type of alarm that's important to me.

The idea behind the firearm use goes straight to what the base knows at the time of the incident. Telling the MPs (or whomever) "go investigate someone setting off flashbangs (and if it's our guys, tell them to cut it out)" is a very, very different call than "shots fired." Hence the the sound suppressor.

Just so long as we can get our prisoner out to the APC without a pitched firefight with our own people, I'll be happy.

This is precisely why I laid this plan out the way I did. Now, with Antonia singing out her woes, we might have a firefight against... who knows? I don't know and that mildly frustrates me because I planned this differently. But oh well!

Psychie, if you want Antonia to be wide awake and clear-headed enough to know what's going on after three flashbangs, unstunned because Steven and Kitty didn't get her with the stun batons, and able to vocally alert anyone within earshot as to what's up (including any allies she might have who might get between 3rd JSOG and the exit), that's fine. If the smartphones recorded the incident or not, again that's fine. It's your game.

My frustration is probably my own doing. Once again, I think I've made the mistake of bringing too much to the table. I should have just let us go in without any sort of plan; that way, we'd probably be farther along in the game. Oh well. I'm just going to back off and let the scene play out however it plays out. I'll have fun with what we have. =)

What it boils down to me is this - I made a plan. I thought it was exciting and well-thought-out, but I've apparently goofed somewhere and now instead of a fun action scene, I feel like I'm in the courtroom aftermath having to explain when instead we could be gaming. I feel like I've taken up enough of everyone's time. Yuck, right?

Spoiler: Also of related importance...

Psychie In Real Life, I just learned that Roe v. Wade has just been overturned so that is definitely adding to my frustration - sorry for being in such a "downer" frame of mind right now.

Plus, a pressure system just headed here and another headache with it. C'est la vie!

 

[Purr]

Edited my above post for clarity. Because clarity is good!

 

[Psychie]

I'm not sure where it happened, but Purr you and I are having a disconnect with what is going on in the game, and I am hoping to resolve this before things get out of hand.

I never said that Antonia withstood the effects of the stun grenades, and I did post that she was disoriented when Steven ran in and tackled her to the ground. Even with her head ringing, she is going to try and fight back, but with the negative modifiers she's suffering and the fact that you are all in your MDC suits it has kept her from being able to do any damage to Steven as he cuffed her. Antonia is not gagged (at least not yet), so she is capable of snarling out a few threats against you as you guys haul her off.

I already gave you the fact that I made a mistake in the verbiage of my post regarding the pistol shot, but the sound of the three flashbangs going off has been heard throughout the crew quarters of the base, and people are reacting to what they heard; a really loud set of kabooms that might be the start of an attack on the base.

I'm not sure what else to say to address your growing frustration, but I do wish to try and give you some answers to your concerns. Lets fix this.

 

[Purr]

Psychie Sure! And appreciate your willingness to do so, Psychie (especially after this day I've had). Here is part of my problem:

Part of Kitty's plan involved the use of our stun batons? No chance of Antonia getting away or calling for help or even talking back. If it were up to me, I would prefer she woke up in a GMP cell.

Also, I wanted our smartphones recording the entire incident?

And here is the core of it (I quoted this already a few posts back but it appears to have gotten lost in the chat so here it is again - the entire paragraph from Kitty's plan):

"Remember our target is two-fold. I believe our primary target is Antonia herself. She, of course, is Meltrandi, ASC-trained, very familiar with the area, likely armed, and also likely on-guard without being on alert. She would be a fool not to have some kind of escape plan or plans. So let us deny her the option of using it. As much as I would love to take her down silently with tranquilizers or tasers, we have none at our disposal. I doubt we are going to be able to sneak up on her with stun batons; her being Meltrandi alone will make that likelihood improbable. This means attracting attention. I recommend three simultaneous flashbangs be thrown into her area followed by Steven and using twin stun batons to fully incapacitate her. We disarm her, cuff her (hands behind and ankles, as always), and drop a tight sack around her head before rapidly hauling her out. Steven, if you could carry her, I will cover you? Steven and I stay with Antonia the entire time until we reach our vehicle with Doug keeping the engine warm.

(bold mine)

The flashbangs and alarm aren't the problem; Antonia being conscious is. That she's captured and zip-tied is great. That she is shouting and very potentially drawing attention (and possibly any buddies she has) isn't so great.

Question for the sake of the scene (and I don't mean anything by this): what do the stun batons do that the flashbangs don't? Answer? The stun batons can render opponents unconscious. Not just disorient them, but with repeated hits, K.O. them completely (comparing the flashbang data that Sherwood provided here in OOC and the stun baton data is in Robotech: Masters Saga Sourcebook, page 100 in my physical copy unless you're using some source I don't know about). I feel Kitty likely knows these two facts (because she's GMP, has W.P. Blunt, and two batons herself) and included this in her plan. I think maybe the stun batons causing unconsciousness part may have been overlooked/not known? Please correct me if I'm wrong? Because If that's true, then it all fits.

So, yeah. Given the plan as described upon and agreed to, why in the world is Antonia conscious, shouting, and able to possibly compromise our mission? Her yelling has to be helping whomever is responding to this. Or in other words, what on Earth happened to the "using twin stun batons to fully incapacitate her," part?

 

[Psychie]

Looking over the description of the stun baton again, it does say that it takes multiple hits from the baton in order to knock out a target, with the first few hits just zapping the person and giving them minuses for an increased amount of time. Even with Antonia failing her saving throws from both the multiple flashbangs and the stun baton hits, she would still be able to put up a very minor amount of resistance, reflected in my IC post.

At this point, Antonia is dazed, shocked and restrained, and if you wish to have her fully unconscious, that is a simple enough change to make.

 

[Purr]

Even with Antonia failing her saving throws from both the multiple flashbangs and the stun baton hits, she would still be able to put up a very minor amount of resistance, reflected in my IC post.

Like the flashbangs and alarm, this is not part of my problem. Her fighting back is not only understandable, but expected.

At this point, Antonia is dazed, shocked and restrained, and if you wish to have her fully unconscious, that is a simple enough change to make.

Yeah, lady. I don't just wish it; it's been part of the plan from the get-go, the intent from the very start. We are ESWAT after all, right? That simple change fixes all of this.

I'm feeling this way because if we run into opposition on the way out, it won't be because she summoned them. Any lawful opposition will be looking for people throwing flashbangs, not shooting guns.

You remember how Masamune Shirow's police officers tend to be in his manga? Either one is an amateur or a professional, right? If we screw this up over something so simple, we are clearly not professionals.

Also, I'm thinking, what is the point of capturing her in the first place if she's able to sing out and some buddies of hers come out of nowhere and capture us? Remember, we have no evidence that Antonia is acting on her own.

What are we going to tell Dorsey later when we had the opportunity to knock her out and we didn't? Then the failure of the mission falls on our shoulders. To quote Batou when Kusanagi tells him to do the action report, ""Barf!" =)

I think it's worth repeating; I hope she wakes up in a GMP cell.

 

[Purr]

At this point, Antonia is dazed, shocked and restrained, and if you wish to have her fully unconscious, that is a simple enough change to make.

Steven barely spares a glance for Antonia as he jabs her with the stun baton again and again, until he is quite sure she's out cold. "Shut up, missy. Ok everyone. Let's haul ass out of here!" He slings the unconscious woman over his shoulder and heads for the door and gets on his way to the waiting APC, with the rest of the squad forming an armored escort around him.

Sherwood Hey bud? I think Psychie was willing to retcon the situation so Antonia was knocked unconscious before she started with the yelling? Your post has Steven yelling which only adds to the idea of 3rd JSOG just running and attracting as little attention as possible. That way, we're (hopefully) not getting into any firefights?

It also has you informing the rest of us what our characters are doing? Plan was: Kitty covers Steven. Nova and Chris grab electronics and follow.

Once this situation is over with, I think I'm done making plans with Kitty. =) It just... seems to create more confusion than is worth the effort. I'll find other ways to have fun here, though. No worries, friends. =)

 

[Purr]

Barnes keeps an eye at the back contemplating of he should really let kitty and nova. Deciding that this might be a way to try out his acting skills on the 2 guard

“Trust me man, whenever she pulls that gun it means someone’s going to lose their man cards.” Lied the tanker as just to speed it up a little. The people seem to be getting over their shock soon and might act if they don’t move and soon’

GunMan2 Ha ha ha! Didn't see that play coming! Way to go, Barnes! =)

 

[Purr]

At the APC, you are starting to load into the back just as a group of armored and armed troops come into view being led by Lt. Renner. He lets out a yell as they advance on you of, "Hey! You there! What the hell are you doing? Exit that vehicle at once! That's an order!" He looks quite upset.

Doug ignores him, saying to the four of you, "Get in and button up. I just hope that the dang chopper is not going to be delayed or else this might get messy." Once everyone is inside, Dorsey pulls the hatch shut right in the face of the lieutenant, and you can still hear Renner yelling and pounding his fist on the hull of the APC. Through the closed hatch, you can hear the LT saying, "If you don't exit immediately, we'll open fire and blast you out of there! You won't get any other warnings!"

Psychie I take it Renner is wearing his ASC armor? What kind is it (meaning which Division is he part of? I didn't think he was GMP)?

Plus... in your world, is it usual for ASC to threaten the lives of GMP personnel like this? In the books, I was given to believe that GMP business was respected. I didn't read anything about other divisions being willing to kill GMP officers in the line of duty. What's changed (if anything)?

 

[Purr]

Psychie I find Renner's actions surprising, but... should I? I mean, is this to expected? Have I got something wrong or has Renner gone off the deep end here or what?

"Their less than savory activities are an open secret, and known GMP officers are treated with a mixture of disdain and fear. ASC soldiers and civilians alike know to watch their tongues in public, lest they attract the unwanted scrutiny of a GMP officer." - Masters Sourcebook, page 35 in physical copy.