Fandom Boku no Hero: Peace Sign Academia OOC

[Xel]

good taste


Fate Edison is a wild ride in general. He is also almost definitely True Berserker in Strange Fake who appears Babbage style as a big scary robot man. Personally I like it when Fate goes full buck wild, one of my favorite Servants is Berserker Jack the Ripper for being one of the coolest takes on a legend that Fate has done. Then again Strange Fake in general is great and might beat out Zero as the best entry to the series and I really need to sit down and read the light novels.

Strange Fake, from what I know (can't read moon and never found a translation) adheres to the old rules. All their servants take from the legends instead of just being stuff entirely unrelated. Probably part of why I like what I read about it so much.

 

[Trombone]

*Read Brii's post*

*Read Trombone's post*

*Same exact color, font, and layout*

*heavy breathing*
F-funny coincidence, haha
It's like we're the same person.
But that would be stupid, wouldn't it?
*sweats nervously *

 

[Xel]

*heavy breathing*
F-funny coincidence, haha
It's like we're the same person.
But that would be stupid, wouldn't it?
*sweats nervously *

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

Strange Fake, from what I know (can't read moon and never found a translation) adheres to the old rules. All their servants take from the legends instead of just being stuff entirely unrelated. Probably part of why I like what I read about it so much.

Tell this to Enkidu, False Rider, Jack the Ripper, and False Assassin who is literally made up. Trap Enkidu, Dream Pale Rider, and Shapeshifter Jack all make around as much sense as Lion Edison, who considering sim's observation of the MGM lion actually works better than I originally thought it did. Not to mention that even Stay Night played fast and loose with its Servants, considering Artoria.

I'm just salty I didn't get a big muscle man Enkidu.

 

[Xel]

Tell this to Enkidu, False Rider, Jack the Ripper, and False Assassin who is literally made up. Trap Enkidu, Dream Pale Rider, and Shapeshifter Jack all make around as much sense as Lion Edison, who considering sim's observation of the MGM lion actually works better than I originally thought it did. Not to mention that even Stay Night played fast and loose with its Servants, considering Artoria.

I'm just salty I didn't get a big muscle man Enkidu.

Well, Enkindu existed LONG before SF. But False Rider doesn't really go against the rules from what I can tell. Neither does Jack or False Assassin. All of them are based on their legends. Typical fate fashion, but still true to the legends. Even Artoria doesn't break the legend since nobody ever knew she was a woman, so legends recorded her as King Arthur, a man. Nobody's saying servants can't differ from their legends, so long as those differences are explained.

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

Well, Enkindu existed LONG before SF. But False Rider doesn't really go against the rules from what I can tell. Neither does Jack or False Assassin. All of them are based on their legends. Typical fate fashion, but still true to the legends. Even Artoria doesn't break the legend since nobody ever knew she was a woman, so legends recorded her as King Arthur, a man. Nobody's saying servants can't differ from their legends, so long as those differences are explained.

He existed before SF, but I'm pretty sure SF was what gave a face to the name. Before hand I'm pretty sure he was just Gil's husbando as far as the canon was concerned. False Rider existing within dreams and his weirdass powers don't have much to do with any of the Four Horsemen beyond being spread through a disease, and there's nothing in Arthur's legend to suggest that he was a woman. Jack is just weird on the conceptual level thanks to Best Boy Flat summoning him by accident. I can understand just wanting characters to be faithful to their legends, but Fate breaks and rewrites its own rules on the regular, so it's kind of silly if they're the reason you don't like Servants straying from their legends.

 

[Xel]

He existed before SF, but I'm pretty sure SF was what gave a face to the name. Before hand I'm pretty sure he was just Gil's husbando as far as the canon was concerned. False Rider existing within dreams and his weirdass powers don't have much to do with any of the Four Horsemen beyond being spread through a disease, and there's nothing in Arthur's legend to suggest that he was a woman. Jack is just weird on the conceptual level thanks to Best Boy Flat summoning him by accident. I can understand just wanting characters to be faithful to their legends, but Fate breaks and rewrites its own rules on the regular, so it's kind of silly if they're the reason you don't like Servants straying from their legends.

Enkindu had a face waaay before SF. I'm tempted to say it was even before F/Z but don't quote me on that. SF was just the first time he was used in a capacity other than background for Gil. Him and Gil were always the bishounen types.

As for the false rider, there's plenty of lore to pull from to justify all of his stuff. The four horsemen weren't literally dudes on horse after all. And that's what Jack and the pale rider have in common, they're concepts rather than actual people. So their abilities are based on the concept, rather than any specific person or deed. As for Saber, I already explained that. They explicitly stated virtually nobody knew she was a woman. So legend records her as a man because that's what everyone knew her as. They never once disputed legend with her, she cross-dressed as a man until the day she died.

So none of these servants stray from their legends. And that's the key point with Fate. Servants aren't, and shouldn't, be EXACTLY as legend describes them. Appearance, capabilities, deeds, that isn't what I'm looking for in a servant. But they need to be based on legend. Jack can shapeshift because there was nevr an identity associated with the serial killer. So people theorized he was this, that, or the other thing. The grail conceptualized society's endless guessing as the ability to shapeshift same way it conceptualized society's view of Dracula as actual vampiric abilities for Vlad. It's about taking the legend and going "ok, how can we fate-ize this?". So my issue comes in when they do things that have no justification. Saying jack can shapeshift because the concept of jack the ripper has no true identity is perfectly valid. Saying edison can shapshift because why not, that's not valid in my book.

So that's the key difference. Doing wonky things based on legend is fine. Doing wonky things just because you want your own originaldonutsteel character with a famous person's name attached to them is not fine.

 

[August]

I wish I could do justice to most of the drawings I do. With the stuff I’m working with, they probably look very amateur. These are the moments when I want a tablet

Whatever your art level is now decreases by 10% on a tablet. Unless you draw it out then go over it on the tablet.

I got a tablet when I was younger hoping my art would improve and oh my god the cringe---
DEVIANT ART TOOLS ARE NOT LEGIT

It takes some time to get used to the tablet, its not impossible but it can be discouraging for some people

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

Enkindu had a face waaay before SF. I'm tempted to say it was even before F/Z but don't quote me on that. SF was just the first time he was used in a capacity other than background for Gil. Him and Gil were always the bishounen types.

As for the false rider, there's plenty of lore to pull from to justify all of his stuff. The four horsemen weren't literally dudes on horse after all. And that's what Jack and the pale rider have in common, they're concepts rather than actual people. So their abilities are based on the concept, rather than any specific person or deed. As for Saber, I already explained that. They explicitly stated virtually nobody knew she was a woman. So legend records her as a man because that's what everyone knew her as. They never once disputed legend with her, she cross-dressed as a man until the day she died.

So none of these servants stray from their legends. And that's the key point with Fate. Servants aren't, and shouldn't, be EXACTLY as legend describes them. Appearance, capabilities, deeds, that isn't what I'm looking for in a servant. But they need to be based on legend. Jack can shapeshift because there was nevr an identity associated with the serial killer. So people theorized he was this, that, or the other thing. The grail conceptualized society's endless guessing as the ability to shapeshift same way it conceptualized society's view of Dracula as actual vampiric abilities for Vlad. It's about taking the legend and going "ok, how can we fate-ize this?". So my issue comes in when they do things that have no justification. Saying jack can shapeshift because the concept of jack the ripper has no true identity is perfectly valid. Saying edison can shapshift because why not, that's not valid in my book.

So that's the key difference. Doing wonky things based on legend is fine. Doing wonky things just because you want your own originaldonutsteel character with a famous person's name attached to them is not fine.

There IS NO justification for Pale Rider's powers or Artoria though. Not having something in the legend to contradict it shouldn't be good enough by your logic. There is absolutely no part of Arthur's legend that would even remotely suggest that he'd be a woman, and there's nothing in Pestilence's legend to suggest his powers would involve pulling people into his master's wonky fever dream. What you're describing is trying to have your cake and eat it too.

 

[BriiAngelic]

*Read Brii's post*

*Read Trombone's post*

*Same exact color, font, and layout*

Wait. What?

....DANG IT HOW I DIDN'T EVEN SEE THAT MASARU USED GREEN. SAME COLOR, SAME LAST NAME.
I just use their eye color for text usually TT-TT
Trombone I didn't mean it >.<"
(Also My Font is usually Corrier New I just forgot to change it after copy pasting it from my workshop)
EDIT:
Whaaaaa even the font styleeeeeee

 

[Xel]

There IS NO justification for Pale Rider's powers or Artoria though. Not having something in the legend to contradict it shouldn't be good enough by your logic. There is absolutely no part of Arthur's legend that would even remotely suggest that he'd be a woman, and there's nothing in Pestilence's legend to suggest his powers would involve pulling people into his master's wonky fever dream. What you're describing is trying to have your cake and eat it too.

They genderbend everyone in Fate, at least with Artoria they justified it by her cross dressing and thus being recorded in legend as a man. It isn't trying to have my cake and eat it too. It's you thinking I want a normal cake when in fact I want an ice cream cake. I don't mind slight variations. I don't mind them genderbending people as long as they justify it (such as they did with Saber... sadly they don't do it with many others). Even your complaints with Rider can be explained. The dream nonsense isn't him, it's his Master. Outside of that he's just infecting people with diseases, and diseases can cause fever dreams. You even used the term yourself. So when combined with his Master's dream world, which is where his contract is according to the wiki, it all sounds on the up and up to me. In fact that's what I like about servants in Fate. Taking their legends and giving them cool powers because of them. To criticize Pestilence for causing fever dreams would be like criticizing saber for shooting a giant beam of light.

 

[Xel]

Wait. What?

....DANG IT HOW I DIDN'T EVEN SEE THAT MASARU USED GREEN. SAME COLOR, SAME LAST NAME.
I just use their eye color for text usually TT-TT
Trombone I didn't mean it >.<"
(Also My Font is usually Corrier New I just forgot to change it after copy pasting it from my workshop)
EDIT:
Whaaaaa even the font styleeeeeee

I'm also noticing Trombone makes excuses when you're not around. And you make excuses when he's not around.

 

[BriiAngelic]

I'm also noticing Trombone makes excuses when you're not around. And you make excuses when he's not around.

I think that's more the fact that we haven't really been both interacting while on in like four days.
Edit:
Ahhhh gtg get ready for school. Bleh Saturday class

 

[Xel]

I think that's more the fact that we haven't really been both interacting while on in like four days.

Mighty convenient for the current situation, isn't it?

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

They genderbend everyone in Fate, at least with Artoria they justified it by her cross dressing and thus being recorded in legend as a man. It isn't trying to have my cake and eat it too. It's you thinking I want a normal cake when in fact I want an ice cream cake. I don't mind slight variations. I don't mind them genderbending people as long as they justify it (such as they did with Saber... sadly they don't do it with many others). Even your complaints with Rider can be explained. The dream nonsense isn't him, it's his Master. Outside of that he's just infecting people with diseases, and diseases can cause fever dreams. You even used the term yourself. So when combined with his Master's dream world, which is where his contract is according to the wiki, it all sounds on the up and up to me. In fact that's what I like about servants in Fate. Taking their legends and giving them cool powers because of them. To criticize Pestilence for causing fever dreams would be like criticizing saber for shooting a giant beam of light.

The justification for Saber is extremely flimsy and Pestilence's wiki page literally says that he is the cause of people to be pulled into the girl's dream. It wouldn't even make sense for his Master to be pulling people into her dream considering she is both in a coma and has no training in Magecraft.

As a side note, I'm quite sure Enkidu's design is in fact from Strange Fake. Narita is the one who made it.

 

[Xel]

The justification for Saber is extremely flimsy and Pestilence's wiki page literally says that he is the cause of people to be pulled into the girl's dream. It wouldn't even make sense for his Master to be pulling people into her dream considering she is both in a coma and has no training in Magecraft.

As a side note, Enkidu's design is in fact from Strange Fake. Narita is the one who made it.

Flimsy is in the eye of the beholder. I don't have very strict standards for servants. As long as they DIRECTLY tie to the legend and don't contradict the legend, I'm fine. Saber crossdressing her whole life? Why not. Plenty of european aristocrats crossdressed, doesn't even really require suspension of disbelief on that one. Pestilence being able to cause fever dreams? Again, why not? No worse than a sword shooting a death star laser. And I didn't mean the master was the one pulling them in. I meant that it's all obviously related since the contract only exists between them in the master's dream world, which they have control over. This obviously isn't an ability strictly beholden to Pestilence.

As for Enkidu, I could have swore I saw that green-haired bishounen before SF. As the years tick by everything jumbles up and I can't remember if I saw the design before SF came out or after. But I also did my own looking and can't find anything on it being before SF so you're probably right on this one.

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

Flimsy is in the eye of the beholder. I don't have very strict standards for servants. As long as they DIRECTLY tie to the legend and don't contradict the legend, I'm fine. Saber crossdressing her whole life? Why not. Plenty of european aristocrats crossdressed, doesn't even really require suspension of disbelief on that one. Pestilence being able to cause fever dreams? Again, why not? No worse than a sword shooting a death star laser. And I didn't mean the master was the one pulling them in. I meant that it's all obviously related since the contract only exists between them in the master's dream world, which they have control over. This obviously isn't an ability strictly beholden to Pestilence.

As for Enkidu, I could have swore I saw that green-haired bishounen before SF. As the years tick by everything jumbles up and I can't remember if I saw the design before SF came out or after. But I also did my own looking and can't find anything on it being before SF so you're probably right on this one.

It's definitely less solid reasoning than what sim came up with for the MGM lion, and I doubt that was a coincidence. I'm not going to be convinced that Artoria plays by the idea of Servants being legend-accurate. It might not be an ability strictly beholden to him, but there's still no basis in his myth for it to manifest even under the circumstances of his contract.

 

[Xel]

It's definitely less solid reasoning than what sim came up with for the MGM lion, and I doubt that was a coincidence. I'm not going to be convinced that Artoria plays by the idea of Servants being legend-accurate. It might not be an ability strictly beholden to him, but there's still no basis in his myth for it to manifest even under the circumstances of his contract.

The problem with Sim's theory is that it outright breaks the rules. For that theory to work society would have to view Edison as lion all might. Same way they viewed Vlad as Dracula. Being viewed as the father of cinema would give him powers related to that, not transform him into a lion. As for Pesti, you keep focusing on the wrong thing. 99.9% of the abilities in Fate have nothing to do with legend. Saber couldn't shoot giant death star lasers. Neither could Medusa from a unicorn. Gilgamesh didn't have infinite sword-firing portals. Lancer didn't have a spear that could reverse causality. It isn't "the legends don't say they could do it". It's "this is based from the legend". It isn't saying Cu, in real legend, had a reality-altering lance. It's saying that his aim was so true and his speed so fast that once thrust you couldn't avoid it. And it takes that concept and creates the Gae Bolg we all know and love. So Pesti's legend not saying "he can pull people into dream worlds" is as relevant as Arthur's legend not saying "He can fire giant lasers from his sword". It's taking the legends and making powers directly based on them. Pesti abides by this rule, Edison doesn't. And that's why I dislike FGO Edison and am fine with SF Pesti.

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

The problem with Sim's theory is that it outright breaks the rules. For that theory to work society would have to view Edison as lion all might. Same way they viewed Vlad as Dracula. Being viewed as the father of cinema would give him powers related to that, not transform him into a lion. As for Pesti, you keep focusing on the wrong thing. 99.9% of the abilities in Fate have nothing to do with legend. Saber couldn't shoot giant death star lasers. Neither could Medusa from a unicorn. Gilgamesh didn't have infinite sword-firing portals. Lancer didn't have a spear that could reverse causality. It isn't "the legends don't say they could do it". It's "this is based from the legend". It isn't saying Cu, in real legend, had a reality-altering lance. It's saying that his aim was so true and his speed so fast that once thrust you couldn't avoid it. And it takes that concept and creates the Gae Bolg we all know and love. So Pesti's legend not saying "he can pull people into dream worlds" is as relevant as Arthur's legend not saying "He can fire giant lasers from his sword". It's taking the legends and making powers directly based on them. Pesti abides by this rule, Edison doesn't. And that's why I dislike FGO Edison and am fine with SF Pesti.

No, I'm not. I'm saying that there is no basis in Pesti's legend for him to have his dream powers like there is with Gae Bolg being a time spear. And the argument of people needing to perceive people as something for them to be summoned as such is moot considering Fate has Shakespeare who literally states that he appears as a woman be he wanted to, and Hans appearing as a child for similar reasons.

That being said, it's getting clear that this discussion really just comes down to differences of opinion as to how much of a stretch these things are, so I'm probably going to cap off my half here.

 

[Idea]

The Mechanist that post was beneath the minimum length, 2 lines to be precise

 

[Xel]

No, I'm not. I'm saying that there is no basis in Pesti's legend for him to have his dream powers like there is with Gae Bolg being a time spear. And the argument of people needing to perceive people as something for them to be summoned as such is moot considering Fate has Shakespeare who literally states that he appears as a woman be he wanted to, and Hans appearing as a child for similar reasons.

That being said, it's getting clear that this discussion really just comes down to differences of opinion as to how much of a stretch these things are, so I'm probably going to cap off my half here.

Do you mean DaVinci, not Shakespeare? Because he's from FGO. Same with Hans. Which is the core point I've been making in why FGO needs to be taken with a grain of salt because it routinely ignores the rules of Fate. Servants don't get to pick their appearance outside of extenuating circumstances (abilities related to their legends, or societal views of their legends). They just get plucked from the throne of heroes as, usually, them in their prime or the age they're most commonly known as.

Basically, FGO is an outlier. FSN, F/Z, SF, Apocrypha, all the real Fate stories follow the rules (more or less). FGO ignores the rules because it needs to keep churning out an unlimited supply of servants and creativity can only take you so far when you're summoning literal who's that required months of digging through wikipedia to find their 2 sentence long entries. Some FGO servants abide by the rules, some don't, so for me I'd only take the ones that do. And I'd change the ones that don't into versions that do.

But yeah, if you wanna call it here that's fine. I enjoy talking about fate so it was fun

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

Do you mean DaVinci, not Shakespeare? Because he's from FGO. Same with Hans. Which is the core point I've been making in why FGO needs to be taken with a grain of salt because it routinely ignores the rules of Fate. Servants don't get to pick their appearance outside of extenuating circumstances (abilities related to their legends, or societal views of their legends). They just get plucked from the throne of heroes as, usually, them in their prime or the age they're most commonly known as.

Basically, FGO is an outlier. FSN, F/Z, SF, Apocrypha, all the real Fate stories follow the rules (more or less). FGO ignores the rules because it needs to keep churning out an unlimited supply of servants and creativity can only take you so far when you're summoning literal who's that required months of digging through wikipedia to find their 2 sentence long entries. Some FGO servants abide by the rules, some don't, so for me I'd only take the ones that do. And I'd change the ones that don't into versions that do.

But yeah, if you wanna call it here that's fine. I enjoy talking about fate so it was fun

Hans is from Extra, lol, and I'd argue that Medusa should appear as Gorgon if servants have no choice in their appearance, among other things. But yeah, I'm going to call it here. Don't wanna spend the whole night debating about this, haha.

 

[The Mechanist]

The Mechanist that post was beneath the minimum length, 2 lines to be precise

Completely forgot that was thing, alright I'll add in a few more lines

 

[Xel]

Hans is from Extra, lol, and I'd argue that Medusa should appear as Gorgon if servants have no choice in their appearance, among other things. But yeah, I'm going to call it here. Don't wanna spend the whole night debating about this, haha.

Extra's a game, like FGO. So I don't count it. And I believe Medusa was summoned from her state prior to being a gorgon, hence why she doesn't have anything related to that. But yeah, discussions can only go so far before we start treading old ground lol.

 

[The Mechanist]

Completely forgot that was thing, alright I'll add in a few more lines

Fixed it