Other What's Wrong With Romance?

[rae2nerdy]

Or they are like me and are a contrarian, so when they see "Romance Required", they immediately throw the computer across the room and cry: "YOU DO NOT CONTROL ME!!!!"

I actually snorted out loud at that part.

As a die hard platonic roleplayer I agree. Romance is like in all but a very tiny number of roleplays. Because even if it isn’t like the main focus it inevitably pops up in all other genres.

Even in ones where it doesn’t make a lot of sense like zombie apocalypses or roleplays about blood relatives. Not knocking those just illustrating that romance is like a mega popular genre that is obviously not looked down upon.

I’d say some elements of romance writing are critiqued but even then it’s with an air of “why can’t there be BETTER romance ?” Not why does romance exist at all.

Even as someone who has to be dragged kicking and screaming into romance I don’t hate the genre. Or think people who write in it are less than me.

I just don’t connect to those storylines as a writer. But because finding platonic 1x1 roleplayers is a bit like finding unicorn herds I tend to compromise and be like OK I’ll put your romance in but we have to add something that I like too so it’s fair.

And the amount of time I’ve had people spit in the face of that attempt at compromise has certainly left a bad taste in my mouth.

But it’s a bad taste about selfish people not romance.

So yeah I have no idea where the idea of romance being looked down on came from.

Maybe it’s from like another site or other parts of pop culture? I genuinely would be curious if some of the romance roleplayers could say where they are getting these thoughts from.

 

[DisneyGirl]

rae2nerdy Romance, for as long as it's been around, has always been made fun of and considered 'dumb' or 'lame' by society. Fantasy/sci fi/anime also unfortunately gets a lot of hate from people, but I'm just focusing on the romance genre in this thread. Luckily, RPN is a much friendlier place for romance roleplayers than some other online communities, but some of that attitude still exists here and there. I just get sick of seeing it and I wanted to stick up for the hopeless romantics in the same way I would stick up for my Dungeons and Dragons or manga loving friends

 

[Fandom Infatuation]

Romance, for as long as it's been around, has always been made fun of and considered 'dumb' or 'lame' by society.

You are extremely mistaken. Romance has always been the default genre, especially marketed towards women and girls. Romantic comedies, Romantic YA novels, movies, even most music is centered around it...

Only fringe examples like Twilight or 50 Shades of Gray are mocked.

 

[DisneyGirl]

You are extremely mistaken. Romance has always been the default genre, especially marketed towards women and girls. Romantic comedies, Romantic YA novels, movies, even most music is centered around it...

Only fringe examples like Twilight or 50 Shades of Gray are mocked.

Romance is very popular, definitely. But is it respected? Not so much. Anime is extremely popular and yet there are still a lot anime fans who get criticized for enjoying it because it's considered by some to be "childish cartoons". Just like how anime fans should feel safe to say they love and write anime without being put down for it, romance fans---no matter if it's roleplay or any other sort of entertainment---should feel just as safe to share and enjoy their love of the genre without feeling like that's a bad thing.

 

[Fandom Infatuation]

Romance is very popular, definitely. But is it respected? Not so much. Anime is extremely popular and yet there are still a lot anime fans who get criticized for enjoying it because it's considered by some to be "childish cartoons". Just like how anime fans should feel safe to say they love and write anime without being put down for it, romance fans---no matter if it's roleplay or any other sort of entertainment---should feel just as safe to share and enjoy their love of the genre without feeling like that's a bad thing.

Of course, I agree. But I do not think that it's shamed as much as you claim it to be.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Romance is very popular, definitely. But is it respected? Not so much. Anime is extremely popular and yet there are still a lot anime fans who get criticized for enjoying it because it's considered by some to be "childish cartoons". Just like how anime fans should feel safe to say they love and write anime without being put down for it, romance fans---no matter if it's roleplay or any other sort of entertainment---should feel just as safe to share and enjoy their love of the genre without feeling like that's a bad thing.

Honey. I don't know who you are surrounding yourself with that is telling you these things but they are DEAD WRONG. Anime is not childish cartoons. Romance is not dumb and lame. And you are free to like whatever the hell you want to like.

You have no need to be ashamed of anything that you want to write on this site. If someone has told you differently they are again DEAD WRONG. If they were harrasing you or making you feel uncomfortable try talking to the Staff.

And furthermore if you really want to celebrate romance and how important you think it is why don't you make a thread for that.

Make a thread asking people to write how much they love romance and what's their favorite part of it.

I think this will help a lot more than complaining about a problem that honestly most people aren't going to think exists.

Because as has been mentioned a lot already - Romance is the most popular genre of roleplaying.

 

[sukaithemoonlord774]

My problem with romance is not that it's bad, is that the situations can be repetitive. Although don't get me wrong, I love some reverse harem romance (if it's done right...). But romance itself, to me is kind of boring if it doesn't have something like action and adventure to back it up. But I don't think genre of romance, is a bad genre at all. I just think it's unappreciated, because of the focus on sex rather than character development and evolution in the plot. I can't tell you, how annoyed I get when I see romance novels with guys half-dressed covered in grease who are just standing there like "Hey baby". It's a major turn-off, for me.

For me, if I want to be girly and watch a romance story or read a romantic series or watch a romantic anime; it needs to be something along the lines of Fruits Basket or Ouran High School Host Club (lol). Because there's plenty of drama and sexiness, but there's also a great storyline, immense character development and lots of humor. When it comes to romance RPs, I like to mix both romance with things like action, adventure and/or horror, sci-fi. But I'm not the type to stick to one genre. But I don't think any one genre is better than the other. In fact, in my opinion, I think all genres have their problems but romance would better if the novels sold in this era weren't so bland and predictable. Because, nowadays I can figure out the story quite easily from the cover and the title. But these are my opinions. To each their own! Those are my two cents...

 

[DisneyGirl]

Honey. I don't know who you are surrounding yourself with that is telling you these things but they are DEAD WRONG. Anime is not childish cartoons. Romance is not dumb and lame. And you are free to like whatever the hell you want to like.

You have no need to be ashamed of anything that you want to write on this site. If someone has told you differently they are again DEAD WRONG. If they were harrasing you or making you feel uncomfortable try talking to the Staff.

And furthermore if you really want to celebrate romance and how important you think it is why don't you make a thread for that.

Make a thread asking people to write how much they love romance and what's their favorite part of it.

I think this will help a lot more than complaining about a problem that honestly most people aren't going to think exists.

Because as has been mentioned a lot already - Romance is the most popular genre of roleplaying.

That's exactly my point? No one is harassing me. It's just an attitude I see sometimes. And please do not call me 'honey'.

 

[rae2nerdy]

That's exactly my point? No one is harassing me. It's just an attitude I see sometimes. And please do not call me 'honey'.

Apologies the southerner in me uses it as a term of endearment.

But my point stands. No one is saying this.

So if you really want to defend romance rather than make a thread about something that isn’t happening on this site.

Why not make a thread that asks people to celebrate the good aspects of romance.

You want your friends or fellow role players to feel respected?

Give them a chance to talk about the thing they love and receive positive feedback.

I mean this thread is fine to receive a kind of positive feedback in that everyone who isn’t a romance roleplayer has already said they have nothing against the genre.

But it’s also pretty limited. As this site doesn’t have the problem your addressing your not really going to reach the audience you want.

No one hear needs to be told to respect romance because they already do.

So try a positivity thread where people can really talk about their favorite parts of romance, maybe strike up some networking friendships for roleplays

 

[Damafaud]

It's just a matter of taste, really.

Not everyone likes 'childish cartoon' for various reasons. Even if the anime fans argue against their reasoning, saying anime is not that bad or at all bad, they don't really have to change their opinions; It's just a different cup of tea than what they like. You can't force a preference into someone else.

The same thing apply to romance. Some people can't be forced to like romance in general. Their dislike may stem from various roots, but changing them won't be as easy as snapping a finger.

As for the stigma around romance... What can we do?

Stigma is based, most of the time, at the worst group a community has. Not all anime fans are 'weaboo loves his waifu'. Some may enjoy it simply for the story, or the drawing style that appeals to their eyes. Not anime roleplayers want to play op characters with no character development. But since there exist that group of people, and they are exposed to everyone, the stigma becomes negative.

The same thing with romance.

Yes there are great romance novels out there. Yes there are great romance roleplays out there. But there is even more romance stories that will send people that expect more than just pure romance rolling their eyes and leave. (No Belle just because your stalker is a handsome vampire it doesn't mean he's not a stalker and his action is not creepy or obsessive)

Once again, nothing is wrong with romance.

It's simply not everyone's cup of tea, and people sometimes are picky in choosing their romance.

 

[DisneyGirl]

It's just a matter of taste, really.

Not everyone likes 'childish cartoon' for various reasons. Even if the anime fans argue against their reasoning, saying anime is not that bad or at all bad, they don't really have to change their opinions; It's just a different cup of tea than what they like. You can't force a preference into someone else.

The same thing apply to romance. Some people can't be forced to like romance in general. Their dislike may stem from various roots, but changing them won't be as easy as snapping a finger.

As for the stigma around romance... What can we do?

Stigma is based, most of the time, at the worst group a community has. Not all anime fans are 'weaboo loves his waifu'. Some may enjoy it simply for the story, or the drawing style that appeals to their eyes. Not anime roleplayers want to play op characters with no character development. But since there exist that group of people, and they are exposed to everyone, the stigma becomes negative.

The same thing with romance.

Yes there are great romance novels out there. Yes there are great romance roleplays out there. But there is even more romance stories that will send people that expect more than just pure romance rolling their eyes and leave. (No Belle just because your stalker is a handsome vampire it doesn't mean he's not a stalker and his action is not creepy or obsessive)

Once again, nothing is wrong with romance.

It's simply not everyone's cup of tea, and people sometimes are picky in choosing their romance.

Like I said in my original post, it's not everybody's cup of tea. That's fine.

 

[Sibelle Grey]

In the matter of romance, the journey toward that confession scene is more important than the scene itself for me. The scene should be a vintage point, something that puts the all of the characters memory together into one action where they simply say 'I love you' and everyone gets how they love each other. Why? Because the journey that leads to that scene shows it!

yeeeeeeeesssss

 

[Sibelle Grey]

Romance, for as long as it's been around, has always been made fun of and considered 'dumb' or 'lame' by society.

This is true.

Romance has always been the default genre, especially marketed towards women and girls.

And this explains the above. I won't get into gender issues but tbh the very reason romance is looked down upon is because, as D DisneyGirl said, it's thought to be the main interest of a demographic whose interests we tend to make fun of and be wary of as a society. See: the derision of chick flicks, chick lit and boy bands, which are dismissed as 'not real literature', 'not real movies', and 'crappy music'.

Okay, that's over. So. I think the impression that romance is looked down upon on RpN might have something to do with the number of threads with titles akin to: "Why do so many people even like romance?" with tons of replies describing why romance is doomed to turn to Mary Sue adulation, self-insert, and how many people really just want to play out things they can't have in real life. So, no, you are not delusional-- there are, indeed, people openly sneering at those who roleplay romance instead of "roleplays with plots", as though the two are mutually incompatible (no I am not referring to everyone who comments on these threads, but some people really just can't type without blatantly disrespecting others' tastes, I've noticed). But there's really nothing wrong with romance as a genre, there are problematic roleplayers across the board. Many people do tend to jump right into slice-of-life romance, I've noticed, without maybe as much planning or thought as they would dive into a sci-fi roleplay, maybe because it seems the most accessible to everyone regardless of writing or roleplaying experience (when in my experience pulling off a well-crafted romance in a roleplay is a beautiful, fun and rewarding exercise in patience and pacing. Good romance is not easy to write). So we who have romance in roleplays get our fair share of people who feel insta-romance is the way to go and feed the stereotypes.

Basically, roleplayers in this genre tend to do the things that are frowned upon across the board.

 

[Bone2pick]

And this explains the above. I won't get into gender issues but tbh the very reason romance is looked down upon is because, as D DisneyGirl said, it's thought to be the main interest of a demographic whose interests we tend to make fun of and be wary of as a society. See: the derision of chick flicks, chick lit and boy bands, which are dismissed as 'not real literature', 'not real movies', and 'crappy music'.

There're no gender issues to dig up. Romance has an awful reputation in fiction for the same reason action movies & books do: far too many of them are low quality. That's it. It's the same reason fanfiction (of any kind) gets ridiculed.

Popular genres carry the stink of everything rotten at the bottom of their barrels. And they have the biggest barrels.

 

[Sibelle Grey]

Popular genres carry the stink of everything rotten at the bottom of their barrels. And they have the biggest barrels.

I agree.

There're no gender issues to dig up.

This is your opinion, and shouldn’t be presented as fact. It comes across as rather rude and patronizing, in fact— “That’s it.” Is it? I’ve yet to see epic treks to save the universe get the same flack on RPN, and they’re usually chock full of action.

 

[Bone2pick]

This is your opinion, and shouldn’t be presented as fact. It comes across as rather rude and patronizing, in fact— “That’s it.” Is it? I’ve yet to see epic treks to save the universe get the same flack on RPN, and they’re usually chock full of action.

Futuristic roleplays are one of the less popular genres. I suspect you already know that. My point suggests that that genre should expect to receive less ridicule than the wildly popular romance genre. However, fantasy is much more popular than space adventures, and by and large, it has a worse reputation than sci-fi. Bigger the barrel, the greater the stink.

 

[Nona]

I don't really have a problem with romance at all, in fact, it can be really cute! sometimes to the point that I love that my little baby found themselves their soul mate and I low key cheer them on but, I prefer it as a sub-theme or a really well thought out main with a background plot that won't die or be thrown out the window after a few posts. If its the only thing focused on in the story (As in the setting doesn't matter outside of the conversation the two characters are having), I tend to get bored quickly, especially if people rush in and rush the process with love at first sight/smell or whatever. I've been in a few of these when I started off and learned quickly that they aren't all that fun for me despite me being a big ol' sap for a bit of romance.

"Oh look, they're together now after 20 or so posts... What else is there even to do? The purpose of your roleplay is over"

This is the feeling I got once that happened and at the start, when I was learning what was fun for me and wasnt this showed up a lot. (Luckily I'm a little more vocal now when I think something is pacing too fast or needs pizazz)

I tend to stay away from interest checks that just have a pairing list on them because that sort of thing is more common there. There's nothing there to set things backwards, forwards or halt things in the "relationship process" Where's the fun? What else is there to do now? I have nothing bubbling alongside it to throw a spanner into the works and make things interesting and no other characters to focus on because we just picked a pairing and pressed "Go". The build up to their relationship was the fun (For the short time it lasted) I don't want to rp two people going to buy Ikea furniture together for their perfect little apartment now. I can go shopping in Ikea in real life and get me some sweet looking tables and chairs ?

Give me some space pirates! real pirates? One of them is a figment of imagination this whole time? Some big ol' rumour? Conspiracy? Old flame? Moving away? Trouble with friends? One woke up as a llama now they have to find a cure? One woke up as an Ikea table?

I don't know, let's use our wonderful noggins to set up something else the two can do/deal with regardless of their relationship status that isn't just smooches and chores or whatever.

Give me another character to interact with! Give me a few! I'll do the same for you. Let the "main characters" interact with others instead of just eachother all the time (I do not mean doubling by the way, I don't even know what that means if I'm honest) I just think that it's important to have outside influences effect your characters' relationship (Be it in a good way or a bad way, it's still development) That is what I'm trying to say here.

In the case where romance isn't explicitly asked for (or group rp I suppose) If the lad or lass I'm portraying as doesn't click with your character, don't expect me to make them change themselves to do so or please don't change your characters to appease what mine would be attracted to. If they don't click romantically? That's fine, they can be platonic friends (Which is still oodles of fun ) Maybe even enemies if you so wish. As long as the story is moving and it's fun.

This bending a character to fit another is present in 1x1s too. I've seen a strong, confident character who was really fun to interact with turn to an out of character pile of blushy mush when she decided she suddenly wanted to be with my character. There was no progression, it was like a light switch snapping on or off, it really ruined the natural flow of things since the reason why my character had found her interesting in the first place no longer present so he was left interacting with a completely different person trait wise.

Basically romance is great as a genre if you put actual thought into it and have it right. If you make sure the other NPCs, the plot and the environment itself is rich enough to still be interesting after the chase of romance is done and has had an impact on the pacing throughout, good job! Having romance in a case like that is great because you still have something to look forward to story wise during and after. You also have something to directly shift, mold and affect circumstances. Add it with making sure your character stays in character and doesn't do off the wall things they normally wouldn't because it's "cute" or whatever and Yay! You've got yourself something good.

Of course that's just my thoughts, I don't expect people to agree

Another group of people that give romance an iffy rep at times is those who can't separate themselves with their character. (Maybe that's where people are getting the single people filling a fantasy thing from, I'm not sure) They are their character, their character is them. As much as I love my characters when I make them, I am aware that they are not me, they are just my creations. I don't connect with them in that way, I never have. I like to RP because of the stories it creates they inspire my illustration works and such, I don't RP so I can vicariously live through my characters.

When my partner lives through their character and can't differentiate between my character and me, especially in a romantic setting/theme, I become uncomfortable. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who feels that way either. Perhaps that apprehension from people is part of that hate you've noticed? (Of course not everyone does that)

All in all Romance RP is great if done with careful thought and isn't just two bare bone characters thrown into a world with no substance that can affect the relationship in any way so it feels that the two characters are just interacting in some kind of bubble. I feel that's where the a good bit of the cringe stems from.

Anyways I think the most important thing is if you don't like romance even when it's well thought out? Then that's fine, people are entitled to have preference, just like I don't like to dabble in fandom but love fantasy and sci-fi. Likewise if you love romance that's great too, be proud and both sides shouldn't need to insult or look down on others for liking/not liking it.

 

[Sibelle Grey]

This is your opinion, and shouldn’t be presented as fact. It comes across as rather rude and patronizing, in fact— “That’s it.” Is it? I’ve yet to see epic treks to save the universe get the same flack on RPN, and they’re usually chock full of action.

Futuristic roleplays are one of the less popular genres. I suspect you already know that. My point suggests that that genre should expect to receive less ridicule than the wildly popular romance genre. However, fantasy is much more popular space adventures, and by and large, it a worse reputation that sci-fi. Bigger the barrel, the greater the stink.

I was referring to fantasy, actually, which seems to get a healthy amount of attention onsite. I mostly see people complaining about certain aspects of group role playing where fantasy is concerned— godmodding, overpowered characters, etc. And yet I’ve yet to see a single thread questioning fantasy as a valid genre or theme of roleplay. “Why do people even roleplay fantasy?” one could ask, and yet the answer seems simple: we want to escape into a story and world of our own creation or, in my case, like to play with imaginary politics.

Without fail, in a thread in romance, someone will say something about irl girls wanting to project on one-dimensional OCs to make up for some kind of attention they’re lacking irl. Which does happen often, but is hardly a fair stereotype, and goes back to what I was saying. You don’t really get the same general judgment for people who are 5’2 irl and want to roleplay as 6 foot tall fire mages, because somehow that’s thought of as less cringy than Jessica deciding she wants to roleplay Jenny falling in love with Justin. But there’s as much potential for self-inserts. There’s just as much potential for bad writing.

In any case, I think we may get off-topic here, so that’s all I have to say in regards to “we tend to look down on young women’s interests” thing, which I consider to be very much a thing. Cheers.

 

[Sibelle Grey]

I tend to stay away from interest checks that just have a pairing list on them because that sort of thing is more common there.

Seriously, these are often a headache waiting to happen for me, unless the poster has an actual plot in mind. Which reminds me of a thread a while back with one poster saying something that needs to spin about on a banner on the 1x1 interest check subforum: a pairing is not a plot. Not for long-term roleplay, anyway, because as soon they get together the roleplay dies. Has anyone had a different experience with a pairing-based roleplay?

 

[Bone2pick]

I was referring to fantasy, actually, which seems to get a healthy amount of attention onsite. I mostly see people complaining about certain aspects of group role playing where fantasy is concerned— godmodding, overpowered characters, etc. And yet I’ve yet to see a single thread questioning fantasy as a valid genre or theme of roleplay. “Why do people even roleplay fantasy?” one could ask, and yet the answer seems simple: we want to escape into a story and world of our own creation or, in my case, like to play with imaginary politics.

I imagine you've heard people ask "why do people even watch professional wrestling, they know the matches are scripted?" Yet the answer is as equally simple as yours: folks (mostly males) want to escape into a gladiator sport with larger than life bodies & personalities. In fact, I would wager professional wrestling has more of a stigma than romance fiction.

Every population has a segment within it that struggles to understand the appeal of entertainment they don't like. The issue isn't remotely unique to romance.

 

[Nona]

Seriously, these are often a headache waiting to happen for me, unless the poster has an actual plot in mind. Which reminds me of a thread a while back with one poster saying something that needs to spin about on a banner on the 1x1 interest check subforum: a pairing is not a plot. Not for long-term roleplay, anyway, because as soon they get together the roleplay dies. Has anyone had a different experience with a pairing-based roleplay?

I mean, I have... sort of? But only because the pairing was taken as the bare bones and a plot was cushioned around it as a joint effort between both me and my partner so the pairing was there, but as a inspiration source rather than the plot. I suppose became sort of sub goal?

Though I know what you mean. I've also had a number of partners throw a pairing and say "Lets dive in and plan as we go"...then they never suggest anything throughout and I'm left thinking by myself to make sure the rp doesn't fly off like an untied balloon.

 

[DisneyGirl]

Seriously, these are often a headache waiting to happen for me, unless the poster has an actual plot in mind. Which reminds me of a thread a while back with one poster saying something that needs to spin about on a banner on the 1x1 interest check subforum: a pairing is not a plot. Not for long-term roleplay, anyway, because as soon they get together the roleplay dies. Has anyone had a different experience with a pairing-based roleplay?

I have. I have three 1x1 roleplays going on right now--two of them that have been going on for two years (and still going)--and our characters had gotten together a looooooong time ago and were based simply on pairings. Now, their stories are about staying together, because there's definitely conflict/drama even after the happily ever afters.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I have. I have three 1x1 roleplays going on right now--two of them that have been going on for two years (and still going)--and our characters had gotten together a looooooong time ago and were based simply on pairings. Now, their stories are about staying together, because there's definitely conflict/drama even after the happily ever afters.

Congrats you’ve found the 1x1 equivalent of a unicorn.

In all seriousness in my experience that kind of longevity is extremely rare for any roleplay and has to do with three things

1. You and your partner are friends out of the roleplay and remain in pretty steady contact outside of the story

2. You really enjoy your characters and want to continue telling their stories

3. You and your partner want the same things out of the roleplay.

For that kind of commitment you need at least two of not all three.


Now you can absolutely get that by starting with just a pairing if that’s the kind of roleplay you want and it fits the story you want to tell.

But honestly that’s pretty rare. Most people who ask for pairings only want short X falls in love with Y the end kind of stories.

Nothing wrong with that. It’s actually refreshingly self contained honestly.

Unfortunately a lot of people just don’t find that kind of self contained story interesting.

Or they’re like me in which lack of plot or world building stresses them out so much they can’t start the roleplay at all.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Which is sort of a double edged sword with pairings. In my experience you either get zero planning and just

Your X I’m Y this is their trope let’s go.

Which stresses me out so much I don’t even bother to try to contact the person. Even if the pairing seems interesting it’s not worth me getting worked up.

Or you get things that are so plotted out with a set pairing that the other person might as well fill out a premade sheet for your character and hand it to you.

And who wants to play someone else’s character in a romance?

Like I mean this in addition to just plain selfish people and pairings are a hard pass for me.

Which is a shame cuz I think the core idea is actually really good.

Just execution has killed that particular style for me

 

[DisneyGirl]

Congrats you’ve found the 1x1 equivalent of a unicorn.

In all seriousness in my experience that kind of longevity is extremely rare for any roleplay and has to do with three things

1. You and your partner are friends out of the roleplay and remain in pretty steady contact outside of the story

2. You really enjoy your characters and want to continue telling their stories

3. You and your partner want the same things out of the roleplay.

For that kind of commitment you need at least two of not all three.


Now you can absolutely get that by starting with just a pairing if that’s the kind of roleplay you want and it fits the story you want to tell.

But honestly that’s pretty rare. Most people who ask for pairings only want short X falls in love with Y the end kind of stories.

Nothing wrong with that. It’s actually refreshingly self contained honestly.

Unfortunately a lot of people just don’t find that kind of self contained story interesting.

Or they’re like me in which lack of plot or world building stresses them out so much they can’t start the roleplay at all.

I never said it wasn't rare. It's just possible to do. Sibelle Grey said that as soon as they get together the roleplay dies. Then asked if anyone has had a different experience with a pairing-based roleplay, and I answered that I have. Like I have said, it's fine if pairings are not your thing.