Experiences Lack of success with investigation-based RPs

[Vaneheart]

I've been bummed out lately by modern investigation-based role plays.

It's one of my favorite genres. Games like Chronicles of Darkness (nWoD), Call of Cthulhu (modern and 1920's), Hunter: The Vigil, Eclipse Phase (futuristic, but can have a investigation-noir feel, kinda like the novel Altered Carbon), and sometimes Shadowrun, are some of my favorite games. I really enjoy a good mystery, supernatural or not. Hell, even X-Files-like games, Dark Heresy, Spy thrillers, or Conspiracy-X style games are a lot of fun too.

Yet on these forums and at my home sessions, these games never last all that long. Like, maybe a few sessions, a few months, or a year at most, then fizzle out right when they get good. In contrast, my D&D and Pathfinder games, run by me or not, seem to always be winners, even with the most basic of plots.

There have been some great mystery premises here especially, many I have even borrowed bits and pieces from for my home games (and given credit where due :-) ), as there are some great writers here. But the games seem to die off regardless.

Makes me sad. Is there something about this genre that's a big turnoff or that makes it unpopular?

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Probably a lack of exposure, since I didn't even know people did these type of rps. Second well that's just how rp's are at rpn, you get used to restarting or move on. But lasting a year? That sounds pretty successful by my standards.

 

[Downlink]

Most people have no interest in thinking when they consume entertainment of any form. Just to get people to act instead of just reacting is a miracle in itself. If I did something mystery oriented, I'd present a few choices of clues they 'discover' instead of them having to figure out how to discover a single clue.

 

[Idea]

It´s pretty much what Bacon is fluffy said, in my opinion. It´s mostly that RPs in general die off fast, and really just getting an RP that runs for more than a couple months is pretty much a miracle. The reason for that, well, that´s in the vein of Downlink ´s post: People don´t seem to be overly interested in investing themselves.

Realistically speaking, that´s not gonna change, anytime soon anyway. Mentalities are not changed quickly, and the prevalent mentality of reducing forum roleplaying to "just a hobby" (not that isn´t a hobby or anything, but not all hobbies can be enjoyed in the exact same way) and therefore expecting to get fun out of it like you would with a video game, a movie, anime or book, etc- mediums which contain no element of writing, which is an integral part of forum roleplaying, and it´s rules and processes unexcapable if you want to do it- is unfortunately very bad at managing any sort of real committment to a project. Even if they love that project, if they expect all the awesomeness right away, it´s naturally gonna fall apart.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Writing is hard though. Super hard. It's hard when I'm not passionate about it at the moment. Not everyone says to not over think it. Sometimes the stress of life takes the joy out of writing.

 

[Idea]

Writing is hard though. Super hard. It's hard when I'm not passionate about it at the moment. Not everyone says to not over think it. Sometimes the stress of life takes the joy out of writing.

Except writing itself is not the part that is supposed to give joy in writitng. Writing is closer to something to say, fishing, than it is to reading. In reading, the product is made. You just have to consume it. But writing, you are producing something. The preparing of the bait, the drive to the lake, the wait for the fish, these could be fun to some people surely, but usually that´s not the part people came for: they came for the result of the work, that awesome moment when they actually catch a fish and drag it out of water, or maybe just the eating of the fish. Similarly, writing is about seeing the pieces come together, about unveiling those long well-built mysteries and forming the organically constructed relationships, and it´s also having other people read what you wrote and enjoying it, and yourself too and then seeing the responses those people make, and weaving together a great story...
And all of these things have one step you just can´t skip, even if you´re not enjoying yourself at the time, the boring parts. The bait is not gonna put itself in the fishing rod, and the excitement that motivates you to write is often dependent on what you write when you are still building the early stages of things.

 

[CastoffCaptain]

Also, mystery writing is hard in and of itself. Harder than most genres.

 

[Idea]

Harder than most genres.

Why do you say that?

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Except writing itself is not the part that is supposed to give joy in writitng. Writing is closer to something to say, fishing, than it is to reading. In reading, the product is made. You just have to consume it. But writing, you are producing something. The preparing of the bait, the drive to the lake, the wait for the fish, these could be fun to some people surely, but usually that´s not the part people came for: they came for the result of the work, that awesome moment when they actually catch a fish and drag it out of water, or maybe just the eating of the fish. Similarly, writing is about seeing the pieces come together, about unveiling those long well-built mysteries and forming the organically constructed relationships, and it´s also having other people read what you wrote and enjoying it, and yourself too and then seeing the responses those people make, and weaving together a great story...
And all of these things have one step you just can´t skip, even if you´re not enjoying yourself at the time, the boring parts. The bait is not gonna put itself in the fishing rod, and the excitement that motivates you to write is often dependent on what you write when you are still building the early stages of things.

Let me stop you right there and ask, why can't someone derive joy from successfully "baiting" someone to read your bit, over the billions of other things they could be reading right now? Almost everything you said is either part of the reality of writing stuff or is simply subjective. What's boring about writing a story? You don't need to be writing the clash of sauron vs the last elf and human alliance, to enjoy writing your story. Sometimes the humor you come up with, the drama, and the setting up the conflict, is more fun than the actual conflict. I personally loved the round table in lord of the rings way more than the destruction of the ring itself.

The round table was full of prejudice, malice, and greed. Something far more interesting than sam and frodo fighting over the ring.

 

[Myxyzptlk]

None of these roleplays I've applied for ( and have been accepted in ) have even started up.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Why do you say that?

If I had to guess it sort of boils down to the degree of forethought and participation required in mystery versus other genres. In a romance you're not really asking your readers to take an active part in the story just sort of insert themselves into relevant character and along for the ride we go. Same with adventure and fantasy.

With a mystery you have to write out your story in such a way that your reader ( or in roleplay players ) can successfully puzzle out the mystery and reach the proper conclusion of whodunnit/what happened/why it happened/etc

So you got to really be careful that you write out your narrative in a way to guide people to a set conclusion without being super obvious about it and that's really really hard.

In roleplaying especially since your dealing with the unpredictability of other people and their ability to follow along on your story.

 

[Idea]

Let me stop you right there and ask, why can't someone derive joy from successfully "baiting" someone to read your bit, over the billions of other things they could be reading right now? Almost everything you said is either part of the reality of writing stuff or is simply subjective. What's boring about writing a story? You don't need to be writing the clash of sauron vs the last elf and human alliance, to enjoy writing your story. Sometimes the humor you come up with, the drama, and the setting up the conflict, is more fun than the actual conflict.

Forgive me, I may have been unclear. I wasn´t saying you can´t have fun writing in of itself, but you can´t expect to first get the drive, then the writing. Expect is the key word there. It´s not that it is impossible to get the excitment and fun in the writing itself, but you need to first have investment to get that fun. And most of the time, investment comes from your hard work and not wanting to see said work wasted. Then, when it gets rewarded, it feels that much better. There are times when the hype or crave, or the people you´re hanging with, heck maybe some piece of media you just consumed or even just the fact you wake up can produce said investment momentarily, and thus you can enjoy your writing better. But if you can´t make yourself write the boring parts too, if you can´t be patient enough to build things up, you can´t expect what´s the basic equivalent of a school essay to sudenly turn into entertainment by "magic" so to speak. That´s all I´m saying. Just pointing out the fact that the fun of writing, for most people, cannot be in the writing itself, but in the context of said writing, and waiting for the context to come to you rather than waiting for it yourself is not exactly a solid of doing anything in a longterm format.

 

[Idea]

If I had to guess it sort of boils down to the degree of forethought and participation required in mystery versus other genres. In a romance you're not really asking your readers to take an active part in the story just sort of insert themselves into relevant character and along for the ride we go. Same with adventure and fantasy.

With a mystery you have to write out your story in such a way that your reader ( or in roleplay players ) can successfully puzzle out the mystery and reach the proper conclusion of whodunnit/what happened/why it happened/etc

So you got to really be careful that you write out your narrative in a way to guide people to a set conclusion without being super obvious about it and that's really really hard.

In roleplaying especially since your dealing with the unpredictability of other people and their ability to follow along on your story.

Hmmm... I suppose that´s one way of looking at it.