Advice/Help Difference between Lazy-Lit and just plain lazy?

[The Random Fox]

As the title states. What is the difference?

Is lazy-lit something like this?

*Sits down and sips coffee* Nice weather today. I might go for a jog.

 

[Onmyoji]

Pretty sure that still counts as a one-liner or Script roleplay.

Lazy-lit is usually 1-3 paragraphs, I believe. Something longer than one-liner but not long enough for novella.

 

[Murdergurl]

Pretty sure that still counts as a one-liner or Script roleplay.

Lazy-lit is usually 1-3 paragraphs, I believe. Something longer than one-liner but not long enough for novella.

So, then what is semi-lit?

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T The Random Fox
Personally, I've never been a fan of all these categories, as they don't seem to have a hard standard and can be interpreted differently by each individual.

I remember when it was Semi-Literate, Literate, and then Advanced Literate. I remember before people even used those terms in RP, as well.

Advanced Lit. then got turned into Novella, I guess? So now I guess semi-literate has now been rebranded as Lazy lit?

I dunno. Like I said, all these categories are pretty stupid. Because they tend to indicate a length of post instead of actual literacy. You can have a highly literate post with lots of descriptors and extravagant syntax, etc. and only be a few hundred words long. Juxtaposed to that, you can have 1000+ words of the literary equivalent of sewage water. So, literacy in RP terms does not equate to literacy in its literal definition. lol

 

[Onmyoji]

So, then what is semi-lit?

In my perception it's synonym to lazy-lit lol

But that's the thing, different people can understand it differently.

 

[Murdergurl]

In my perception it's synonym to lazy-lit lol

But that's the thing, different people can understand it differently.

exactly, which is why I tend to shy away from using the terms if at all possible.

 

[Sugarnaut]

from my experience lazy lit's more about posting frequently than the length itself or a more relaxed environment on the length of posts. i've never encountered the term "lazy" on its own.

 

[Steve Jobs]

Before RPN I had never heard of the terms lazy lit or novella. It was always "literate, semi-lit, or advanced literate." Personally I don't like those terms since they often relate to word count rather than commitment and intensity. This is also me signaling that I don't do lengthy posts lol.

I prefer to categorize roleplays as causal, open, or serious with the posting requirements listed separately. Despite those terms also being vague, I feel like they are better for helping a prospective player decide if they want to apply for something.

Edit since I never actually answered the question: I think lazy-lit just means casual, short posts of varying frequency.

 

[Celestial Water]

Right. It used to be termed just Semi-Lit, Lit and Advanced Lit like some people said. It has nothing to do with length but people still categorize it to post lengths.

Eh…I’m too lazy to put effort into this answer lmao …

When I say I’m lazy-lit it means I‘m just a casual/chill writer that generally doesn’t care to put maximum effort into RPing anymore. I used to do character sheets, all this planning and spent abnormal amounts of time writing posts. Now I don’t. I’m also forgiving of people breaking RP rules to an extent and misspellings every post. If I can grasp what’s being said I don’t give a damn. Lol. I’m not looking to better my writing anymore. I’m just trying to game and have fun.

Edit: Fun and character study. There is sometimes quite a bit of introspection in my writing.

 

[Celestial Water]

Same here, I see RP as more of an Gaming Adventure. Kinda like Skyrim, create your character and watch what unfolds because every role-play is like starting a new game, each quest won't get played in the same order. lol.

That is kind of how I go about my RPs now actually! Lol. I prefer to start the RP first then as the adventure starts going start to plan. To me, plans can change. I can waste all this time planning and it goes a completely different direction! But as the game gets harder you do have to start forming some game plan or there’s going to be a lot of kinks in the gameplay. Aha.

 

[Kaiju Cat]

Celestial Water T The Random Fox I think I should adopt you guy’s approach to rp makes life a bit easier.

 

[Idea]

In regards to the specific question here... I can't really answer it. It's not a term I've ever used nor one I have seen used often enough to have a general grasp on the pattern. That being said there seems to be an ever-expanding list of terms that are nebulously defined and non-committal, lazy-lit being among those. I don't know what people may have actually meant by those in individual threads, but I do have a strong suspicion people have very different things in mind for the same term when it comes to terms which belong to that list.

 

[Jannah]

These categories are quite arbitrary as they mean different things to different people. Put a bunch of different RPers in a room together and almost guaranteed they would not be able to agree on definitions for these terms.

 

[Murdergurl]

Funnily enough, I too remember when writing quality used to be called Semi-Literate, Literate and Advanced. I get intimidated by the last two because I feel like I am back in highschool writing essays since I struggled - and still do - at writing.

I had a college reading/writing level in the 6th grade. I remember in Senior English (high school) my class was going to read Treasure Island, and I straight up told the teacher that it was a kid's book. But when I later went to college, I tested into remedial Math. lmao

 

[Celestial Water]

Definitely agree with that. It is kind of a new term with no clear definition. Lol. When I first saw it I was confused and just ignored it. But I’ve found a pattern of people using semi-lit or lazy-lit to put less expectations on me in RPs. I’m chronically tired and still have love for RP but some days I just can’t be bothered to look up some grammar question or make a super detailed post. I also can’t comprehend people with flowery or abstract writing (I have simple, straightforward writing). Those types of people I’ve noticed like to use advanced lit. But for me, seeing the term semi or lazy just kind of says ‘safe-zone or house’ for me.

 

[Jet]

So, then what is semi-lit?

---

T The Random Fox
Personally, I've never been a fan of all these categories, as they don't seem to have a hard standard and can be interpreted differently by each individual.

I remember when it was Semi-Literate, Literate, and then Advanced Literate. I remember before people even used those terms in RP, as well.

Advanced Lit. then got turned into Novella, I guess? So now I guess semi-literate has now been rebranded as Lazy lit?

I dunno. Like I said, all these categories are pretty stupid. Because they tend to indicate a length of post instead of actual literacy. You can have a highly literate post with lots of descriptors and extravagant syntax, etc. and only be a few hundred words long. Juxtaposed to that, you can have 1000+ words of the literary equivalent of sewage water. So, literacy in RP terms does not equate to literacy in its literal definition. lol

Seconded.

Length requirements are the death of good writing. It punishes efficient prose and forces over-writing, when there's not enough content for a long post.

There are times when I post two thousand words. There are times I post two hundred. It depends on the context and what I want to convey. Sometimes I want to leave ambiguity so I cut things I could otherwise include, to enhance mystery and make the reader think. There are times I describe everything in great detail, because I want to crystallize the image and leave zero room for doubt.

I think length requirements are a crude, sometimes necessary way to filter out bad writers, but ascribing quality to them is insane.

The obsession with length and complexity has another bad side effect, encouraging a particular style of "RP writing" where things are over explained and overly detailed. Where the "Wood cabinet" gets three sentences of complex, academic style description, is called advanced literate (encouraging the behavior) and reinforces bad writing.

On the other hand, it would be poor taste to publicly judge writing based on its quality, and call out bad writers. This community has enough self consciousness as it is.

So in my opinion, those labels shouldn't exist at all. Either we judge on a stupid, but objective metric (length) or a valid, but cruel and subjective metric (quality). It's a lose lose.

I think the following classifications are better.

Casual, intermediate and advanced. The classifications should never be used to describe writers, but rather the RP. That way people can have a clear idea of what they're joining.

Casual would be your one liner, one paragraph RPs, done for fun without sweat on your forehead when you post.

Advanced is for novel-style writing where things are taken seriously.

Intermediate is everything in between.

 

[Jannah]

Seconded.

Length requirements are the death of good writing. It punishes efficient prose and forces over-writing, when there's not enough content for a long post.

There are times when I post two thousand words. There are times I post two hundred. It depends on the context and what I want to convey. Sometimes I want to leave ambiguity so I cut things I could otherwise include, to enhance mystery and make the reader think. There are times I describe everything in great detail, because I want to crystallize the image and leave zero room for doubt.

I think length requirements are a crude, sometimes necessary way to filter out bad writers, but ascribing quality to them is insane.

The obsession with length and complexity has another bad side effect, encouraging a particular style of "RP writing" where things are over explained and overly detailed. Where the "Wood cabinet" gets three sentences of complex, academic style description, is called advanced literate (encouraging the behavior) and reinforces bad writing.

On the other hand, it would be poor taste to publicly judge writing based on its quality, and call out bad writers. This community has enough self consciousness as it is.

So in my opinion, those labels shouldn't exist at all. Either we judge on a stupid, but objective metric (length) or a valid, but cruel and subjective metric (quality).

I think they do have a place tbh. Like, if someone is trying to write an in-depth story then longer posts may be needed. However, for the vast majority of RP's I don't really think they're necessary except for if the GM doesn't want one-liners.

 

[Jet]

I think they do have a place tbh. Like, if someone is trying to write an in-depth story then longer posts may be needed. However, for the vast majority of RP's I don't really think they're necessary except for if the GM doesn't want one-liners.

Longer posts are needed at times sure, but conversation and action posts can comfortably sit in the 200-400 range. I write with a lot of very advanced writers. People with writing degrees who are working on novels, and they're on the same wave length. We post long, chunky things when needed, and shorter posts when it's not. It all depends on context.

That's why I don't like length requirements. They ignore context and pacing, forcing you to over-write during quick dialogue or action scenes.

That doesn't mean posts should never be long. I've done several 2-3 thousand word posts in my RP, mainly for scene changes, introduction posts and world building. I like quick back and forth dialogue between characters I'm writing (many times NPCs) and those can stretch on and on lol.

It all comes down to what the post is covering.

That said, I totally agree with the one liner thing. I'm not interested in writing that stuff, or having members who do. I've never needed to put a "No one liners" rule in one of my RPs, because their apparent seriousness drives those people away. But I totally understand putting that in bold letters on your interest checks lol.

 

[Jannah]

Longer posts are needed at times sure, but conversation and action posts can comfortably sit in the 200-400 range. I write with a lot of very advanced writers. People with writing degrees who are working on novels, and they're on the same wave length. We post long, chunky things when needed, and shorter posts when it's not. It all depends on context.

That's why I don't like length requirements. They ignore context and pacing, forcing you to over-write during quick dialogue or action scenes.

That doesn't mean posts should never be long. I've done several 2-3 thousand word posts in my RP, mainly for scene changes, introduction posts and world building. I like quick back and forth dialogue between characters I'm writing (many times NPCs) and those can stretch on and on lol.

It all comes down to what the post is covering.

That said, I totally agree with the one liner thing. I'm not interested in writing that stuff, or having members who do. I've never needed to put a "No one liners" rule in one of my RPs, because their apparent seriousness drives those people away. But I totally understand putting that in bold letters on your interest checks lol.

Oh I certainly don't disagree. I just think that sometimes longer posts are needed and if a person can't even match that in times when it's actually needed then that could be an issue. Of course as an advanced writer myself I also don't want the one-liner thing going on. I think even in action scenes, scenes with heavy dialogue, etc. it's still possible to pump out at least 200 words. I do it all the time so there's no reason why others shouldn't.

 

[Jet]

Oh I certainly don't disagree. I just think that sometimes longer posts are needed and if a person can't even match that in times when it's actually needed then that could be an issue. Of course as an advanced writer myself I also don't want the one-liner thing going on. I think even in action scenes, scenes with heavy dialogue, etc. it's still possible to pump out at least 200 words. I do it all the time so there's no reason why others shouldn't.

Seems like we're in agreement then. I share your opinion on everything you just said.

 

[Jannah]

Seems like we're in agreement then. I share your opinion on everything you just said.

I think this is where asking for writing samples can help. At least if you have a sample then you can get an idea of whether or not the player will fit your literacy and length requirements.

 

[Jet]

I think this is where asking for writing samples can help. At least if you have a sample then you can get an idea of whether or not the player will fit your literacy and length requirements.

Agreed. I've made the same point in previous debates on this topic, against those who swear by length requirements.

Hell, one of, if not my favorite writer I've ever worked with, was extremely taciturn and wrote very short, pointed and witty things. I doubt they ever broke 500 words in the time I wrote wrote them, but they had exceptional efficiency and word placement. Very Hemmingway-esque, I suppose.

They were vastly superior to many "Advanced lit" writers I've worked with, who were essay writers masquerading as creative ones.

Length requirements would've excluded them, labeling them a casual writer despite their excellence. Insane stuff.

The counter point was always, "Reading samples takes too long," but I disagree. It takes what? Two minutes to read 2k words at a 500 wpm rate, which isn't extremely fast either. Just seems lazy to me.

 

[Murdergurl]

Seconded.

Length requirements are the death of good writing. It punishes efficient prose and forces over-writing, when there's not enough content for a long post.

There are times when I post two thousand words. There are times I post two hundred. It depends on the context and what I want to convey. Sometimes I want to leave ambiguity so I cut things I could otherwise include, to enhance mystery and make the reader think. There are times I describe everything in great detail, because I want to crystallize the image and leave zero room for doubt.

I think length requirements are a crude, sometimes necessary way to filter out bad writers, but ascribing quality to them is insane.

While content should definitely allow for variety of length, you'd be surprised how many people will post a reply with a few sentences when the rest of the group has put in several hundred words of effort together. It's like... really, you're gonna be that guy?

The fact of the matter is that it takes all too much effort to vet each and every person you want to RP with, so the post length requirement does at least a broad sword's job of filtering out the casual posters for an RP that really isn't their speed. Yes, it's crude. Yes, it probably alienates people who would otherwise be good candidates. But time and effort are valuable commodities for a lot of us with very limited freetime for the hobbies we try to enjoy. So the blunt instrument is sometimes all we have time to implement.

That being said, I can argua all day with some people about literacy not equating to post length.

The obsession with length and complexity has another bad side effect, encouraging a particular style of "RP writing" where things are over explained and overly detailed. Where the "Wood cabinet" gets three sentences of complex, academic style description, is called advanced literate (encouraging the behavior) and reinforces bad writing.

The term for that is called "purple prose". Where less is definitely more, and excessive descriptors come off as useless and distracting.
(not gonna lie, I'm sometimes guilty of being a little purple, myself)

On the other hand, it would be poor taste to publicly judge writing based on its quality, and call out bad writers. This community has enough self consciousness as it is.

So in my opinion, those labels shouldn't exist at all. Either we judge on a stupid, but objective metric (length) or a valid, but cruel and subjective metric (quality). It's a lose lose.

I think the following classifications are better.

Casual, intermediate and advanced. The classifications should never be used to describe writers, but rather the RP. That way people can have a clear idea of what they're joining.

I used to see these terms from time to time. Can't remember where, anymore. But some old RP venues were set up like that. Also had a sub-section for 18+ Rps in mirrored segregation.

In the end, I myself try to avoid the terms in my own reqs, and will instead supply writing samples to give a solid and unclouded idea of what I'm looking for. Cuts through the bullshit real quick, that way.

As far as "taking too long to read samples". Well, if you can't bother yourself to read a writing sample, then what even are you doing on a site that functions on shared writing?

 

[Jet]

While content should definitely allow for variety of length, you'd be surprised how many people will post a reply with a few sentences when the rest of the group has put in several hundred words of effort together. It's like... really, you're gonna be that guy?

The fact of the matter is that it takes all too much effort to vet each and every person you want to RP with, so the post length requirement does at least a broad sword's job of filtering out the casual posters for an RP that really isn't their speed. Yes, it's crude. Yes, it probably alienates people who would otherwise be good candidates. But time and effort are valuable commodities for a lot of us with very limited freetime for the hobbies we try to enjoy. So the blunt instrument is sometimes all we have time to implement.

That being said, I can argua all day with some people about literacy not equating to post length.


The term for that is called "purple prose". Where less is definitely more, and excessive descriptors come off as useless and distracting.
(not gonna lie, I'm sometimes guilty of being a little purple, myself)


I used to see these terms from time to time. Can't remember where, anymore. But some old RP venues were set up like that. Also had a sub-section for 18+ Rps in mirrored segregation.

In the end, I myself try to avoid the terms in my own reqs, and will instead supply writing samples to give a solid and unclouded idea of what I'm looking for. Cuts through the bullshit real quick, that way.

1. I just think it's better to quickly scan recent posts. It only takes a minute or two, and sometimes less. Like if you see a bunch of one liners you can immediately hit the back button and send a rejection.

I do think it's sometimes necessary, I said as much in my original post, but I think it's a crude tool. You can easily make a more informed decision, and if you're GMing, you're signing up to put hundreds of hours into the project. What's another minute of your time?

That said, do you. I'm not the RPN police. I don't really care as long as length isn't equated to quality, which you're not doing. I think we generally agree that length requirements aren't a good thing, but you think it's a necessary evil. I'm cool with that.

2. I'm familiar with purple prose, but I don't like using that term to bad mouth writing. There are some writers who do amazing purple prose, and deliver fantastic content time and time again. Then there are essayists. People brainwashed by education systems, who associate length with good grades, which associates with quality in their minds. They bloviate sentences because "short ones aren't as good," and the only reason is years of academic programming.

I don't call that purple prose, just shit writing. Like when a physical movement is described in three sentences, sounding like an episode of sports science/medical journal.

To me purple prose is a lot of detailed, pretty sounding descriptions, often about the setting. It can be really cool when done right.

3. I like your strategy! I generally choose based on recent posts. But I like your method a lot.

I think I'm afforded more wiggle room as a group GM. In 1x1s you have to be much more discriminatory, as would I given that setting.

 

[Murdergurl]

1. I just think it's better to quickly scan recent posts. It only takes a minute or two, and sometimes less. Like if you see a bunch of one liners you can immediately hit the back button and send a rejection.

I do think it's sometimes necessary, I said as much in my original post, but I think it's a crude tool. You can easily make a more informed decision, and if you're GMing, you're signing up to put hundreds of hours into the project. What's another minute of your time?

That said, do you. I'm not the RPN police. I don't really care as long as length isn't equated to quality, which you're not doing. I think we generally agree that length requirements aren't a good thing, but you think it's a necessary evil. I'm cool with that.

2. I'm familiar with purple prose, but I don't like using that term to bad mouth writing. There are some writers who do amazing purple prose, and deliver fantastic content time and time again. Then there are essayists. People brainwashed by education systems, who associate length with good grades, which associates with quality. They bloviate sentences because "short ones aren't as good," and the only reason is years of academic programming.

I don't call that purple prose, just shit writing. Like when a physical movement is described in three sentences, sounding like an episode of sports science/medical journal.

To me purple prose is a lot of detailed, pretty sounding descriptions, often about the setting. It can be really cool when done right.

3. I like your strategy! I generally choose based on recent posts. But I like your method a lot.

I think I'm afforded more wiggle room as a group GM. In 1x1s you have to be much more discriminatory, as would I given that setting.

yeah... groups definitely have a lot more wiggle room. Especially because the pieces contributed by each player are smaller, and thus not so detrimental. Anyhow, I think I've said about all i can say on this subject for now

 

[Idea]

I think length requirements are a crude, sometimes necessary way to filter out bad writers, but ascribing quality to them is insane.

Either we judge on a stupid, but objective metric (length) or a valid, but cruel and subjective metric (quality).

I think these two tidbits are a good case for why I ultimately don't subscribe to the same viewpoint as you do on length requirements, because they touch on my reasons for employing them. I don't think - and in fact I never see anyone claiming nowadays- that length = quality. However, I do see it associated with writing style. For the same content people who are more descriptive will tend to have larger posts, because you need more words to fit more description. Someone can be better or worse at a certain style, but a really excellent writer in a style that is incompatible with your own can be just as bad as a pretty terrible writer on a style which does work for you, because if length is influenced as a result of style, then style is the result of preferences, goals and values one has in writing.

Someone who's laser-focused on moving the plot along may find the story developments far more interesting or simply like a faster pace and intense action. Someone who spends more time focusing on the ways the society works in a setting, taking their time to describe tidbits of customs and finding creative ways that the people in a setting behave may prefer something more gradual and exploratory. Internal monologue may be one of the most notorious cases of this, as many with longer lengths or more detailed writing styles often appreciate the exploration of a character's internal state or thought process, while many who prefer the writing more streamlined tend to find internal monologue in large part frivolous as there is no interaction that results from it.

Length requirements are not ends in of themselves for those like me. It's not like I can't accept you making some posts which are shorter on scenes that really call for it. In the end of the day though, a length requirement isn't supposed to be the expected post, it's supposed to be a minimum. If it's not a length you naturally tend to and not something you can reach even on slower scenes, then that is an indication of a difference in the way we approach the writing itself, and what we want out of our own and each other's writing. Assuming honesty, a writer who takes up a roleplay with length requirements is one who is comfortable with making that regularly. It's someone whom the length requirement isn't really a constraint in most cases because they tend to write above it anyway. It's meant to filter out those whose styles - and therefore whose preferences and priorities - lead to writing less.

Are they the best metric? No, but as the quoted comments touched on, they are a practical choice because they are relatively easy to measure, which makes it simply to know whether someone - applicants especially - meet those requirements. It's also proven effective in my experience, out of all the attempts I made at different such filters and requirements, this one simply worked out the best in actually getting me better partners. That being said, I am considering trying out writing samples, though college work has so far left me unable to make that experiment.