Vali Ulfr
The Battle Slain Wolf
So I wanna try playing a female character once, but i am a guy and i have only ever done male characters. and i wanna do FXF rps but i don't wanna make a embarasing mistake.
Advice/Help advice for playing as female character?
- Thread starter Vali Ulfr
- Start date
Kalika
New Member
What type of character are you wanting to make?
Kalika
New Member
Race and what not?
rae2nerdy
left site
First it helps to remember that women are people not a separate species. So as long as you make a character that is well rounded with likes, dislikes, a hobby, etc. than you'll be fine.
There isn't really that big of a difference between writing a male or a female. Especially if your doing a roleplay outside of the real world.
If your still struggling than try one of two things
A. write a male character. Then simply go back through and change all the he/him pronouns into she/her pronouns. This way you are writing a well rounded character who just so happens to be a lady.
B. look at the women in your life. what are they like? what are their hobbies? how would they respond in x situation?
----------------
sidenote when it comes to descriptions.
Women do not obssess over their breasts in the same way that men do. A lady is likely not going to notice their own or another woman's breasts excessively. They might notice - hey this lady looks super pretty. But they aren't going to be like -- Ooh susie has big honking knockers whowza.
And when it comes to their own breast they don't focus on them internally that much. There's a joke about how male writers like to write women "Breasting boobily down the stairs". Don't do that.
A woman will only notice her own breasts if they are causing her discomfort OR if she accidentally dropped food down her shirt and has to find a lady-like way to get it out.
There isn't really that big of a difference between writing a male or a female. Especially if your doing a roleplay outside of the real world.
If your still struggling than try one of two things
A. write a male character. Then simply go back through and change all the he/him pronouns into she/her pronouns. This way you are writing a well rounded character who just so happens to be a lady.
B. look at the women in your life. what are they like? what are their hobbies? how would they respond in x situation?
----------------
sidenote when it comes to descriptions.
Women do not obssess over their breasts in the same way that men do. A lady is likely not going to notice their own or another woman's breasts excessively. They might notice - hey this lady looks super pretty. But they aren't going to be like -- Ooh susie has big honking knockers whowza.
And when it comes to their own breast they don't focus on them internally that much. There's a joke about how male writers like to write women "Breasting boobily down the stairs". Don't do that.
A woman will only notice her own breasts if they are causing her discomfort OR if she accidentally dropped food down her shirt and has to find a lady-like way to get it out.
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Kalika
New Member
That's true and all females differ just as men do! Some are girly, some are not. It really depends on what you want to play in the end! :0
rae2nerdy
left site
Yep. Women come in every bit as many varieties as men do. I would say in addition to the above advice look at the world your in.
Is there any established gender roles that would effect women more than men? Does your character adhere to them or work against them?
is this a world where homosexuality is accepted, reviled, ignored and left alone?
I think when it comes to characters their settings has more to do with how they will be precieved than their gender. So be sure your lady fits her world nicely and she should be fine.
Is there any established gender roles that would effect women more than men? Does your character adhere to them or work against them?
is this a world where homosexuality is accepted, reviled, ignored and left alone?
I think when it comes to characters their settings has more to do with how they will be precieved than their gender. So be sure your lady fits her world nicely and she should be fine.
welian
#BlackLivesMatter
As a general rule, women are physically weaker than men. Statistically speaking, we're gonna lose a fight with a guy. So, your female characters might be better at manipulation than your male characters, idk. Up to you and each character's personality.
But since you're interested in treading FxF waters, then that probably won't come up often, if at all.
But since you're interested in treading FxF waters, then that probably won't come up often, if at all.
Kalika
New Member
Unfortunately that is a fair point but it does depend. Say you have a RM male character and a PC female character. The female will clearly win but on the same level, yes men are generally physically stronger. D<
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
AlbaGuBrath
"Scotland Forever"
Yeah, gender is one of those things that is more of an incidental than a defining character trait. Probably the biggest place where it would make a difference would be in the setting had certain gender norms or whatever, but ultimately it comes down to the individual character's personality and environment. That said, there are some broad differences that may appear between men and women. This doesn't mean that all women will be this way, but they might be.
(Note that this is mostly coming from my own experience, so it may not be the case for others.)
I think one of the biggest differences is that men may be better at division and compartmentalization, while women may be better at making connections and bringing everything together. This may be in interpersonal relationships, interests, problem solving, just about anything. So, for example, when my boyfriend writes a paper, he is specifically focused on the one chosen topic he has decided on and only that, ignoring other related topics. When I write a paper, I may be discussing a similar historical event, but I'm also thinking about literature and music about it from the next century, for example. Either one of these may be helpful or a hindrance depending on the situation. Using the example of papers, it usually takes me at least twice as long to write something because I have to chase down a bunch of threads, but it can also be helpful because I can make something out of whatever I happen to have access to. Depending on the situation, then, you might have a female character that is more flexible when faced with a problem, but may be overwhelmed by too many possibilities.
Related to this, though it may only be in my case, is that women may make connections across many different areas in their life. Their thoughts and feelings about one thing may affect their thoughts and feelings about something else entirely, maybe only through a string of tangentially-related associations. This can create some very interesting conversations! Unfortunately, this also can be very confusing both for them and for others because it is entirely possible for something to trigger a response, for her to believe it is a response to something else, but to really be something else entirely. (Or maybe I'm just ridiculously unstable; that's a possibility too.) But how this might apply to your writing might be to think a little bit about your character's experiences and their associations and work that in somehow. So maybe a family member used to sing a specific song when they were happy, so hearing it may bring up positive memories in her mind.
Another thing I've noticed from my own experience is that sometimes girls will use what I call 'ant-language' (because it reminds me of ants communicating with smell, but it looks like they're just waving their antennae around) to communicate with others. That is, we sometimes will use way more than pure verbal communication, including the obvious like body language and tones of speech, but also choice of wording or location. So, we might choose a specific phrase that carries extra meaning or associations, or bring up a topic while in an area that hold certain memories, but without explicitly verbalizing the thought behind it. (Sometimes the intended meaning is actually significantly different from the words themselves. Whoops...) This usually works fairly well with close female friends because they can more easily intuit the unspoken layers of meaning, but it can be a challenge when communicating with guys. Similarly, we may also read 'ant-language' messages where they don't actually exist. This has happened to me several times, at least. So, depending on whether your character uses this kind of communication or is skilled in reading it, there may be a certain amount of miscommunication between characters. On the other hand, it is also a useful skill for gauging how somebody is feeling even if they say they're feeling a different way or for navigating tricky conversations. It might also be useful if your characters need to hold a conversation but think they're being eavesdropped on. A lot of it is situational, though, so it might be useful to talk to female friends and family to see if they can explain situations where they've encountered or used it.
Oh, one more thing. Don't get between a mother and her child, or most family members, for that matter. This may not always be the case, but we can be extremely protective of the people we love, sometimes irrationally so. My boyfriend and I actually had an interesting discussion regarding Ned and Catelyn Stark in Game of Thrones. (Possible spoilers ahead, but probably nothing that hasn't been mentioned before. This is basically Season 1 and part of 2.)
So, again, this may be different for different characters. But if a loved one is in danger, especially a child, it may be more likely that a woman would do whatever it took to keep them safe or meet their needs. It may be possible for her to be emotionally cool and able to make decisions that may risk their well-being, but this would probably be considered unusual. Again, like any other trait, this may be a strength or weakness depending on the situation.
All in all, I would think it would mostly just depend on your character. Women are not male characters with different bodies, but they're also not aliens from another planet, so how many of these things appear in your character may vary. I'd recommend spending time talking to friends and family specifically about similarities and differences they see between each other. Couples may be especially good to talk to because they're likely to have often come into contact with those invisible differences and had to discuss them to figure out a solution. Often, men and women alike may assume that the other is thinking or feeling in the same way they are, but may discover differences once they talk it out. You can also talk to your RP partner. If they're a girl, then ask them to help you spot issues or point out suggestions. They can probably help you out.
(Note that this is mostly coming from my own experience, so it may not be the case for others.)
I think one of the biggest differences is that men may be better at division and compartmentalization, while women may be better at making connections and bringing everything together. This may be in interpersonal relationships, interests, problem solving, just about anything. So, for example, when my boyfriend writes a paper, he is specifically focused on the one chosen topic he has decided on and only that, ignoring other related topics. When I write a paper, I may be discussing a similar historical event, but I'm also thinking about literature and music about it from the next century, for example. Either one of these may be helpful or a hindrance depending on the situation. Using the example of papers, it usually takes me at least twice as long to write something because I have to chase down a bunch of threads, but it can also be helpful because I can make something out of whatever I happen to have access to. Depending on the situation, then, you might have a female character that is more flexible when faced with a problem, but may be overwhelmed by too many possibilities.
Related to this, though it may only be in my case, is that women may make connections across many different areas in their life. Their thoughts and feelings about one thing may affect their thoughts and feelings about something else entirely, maybe only through a string of tangentially-related associations. This can create some very interesting conversations! Unfortunately, this also can be very confusing both for them and for others because it is entirely possible for something to trigger a response, for her to believe it is a response to something else, but to really be something else entirely. (Or maybe I'm just ridiculously unstable; that's a possibility too.) But how this might apply to your writing might be to think a little bit about your character's experiences and their associations and work that in somehow. So maybe a family member used to sing a specific song when they were happy, so hearing it may bring up positive memories in her mind.
Another thing I've noticed from my own experience is that sometimes girls will use what I call 'ant-language' (because it reminds me of ants communicating with smell, but it looks like they're just waving their antennae around) to communicate with others. That is, we sometimes will use way more than pure verbal communication, including the obvious like body language and tones of speech, but also choice of wording or location. So, we might choose a specific phrase that carries extra meaning or associations, or bring up a topic while in an area that hold certain memories, but without explicitly verbalizing the thought behind it. (Sometimes the intended meaning is actually significantly different from the words themselves. Whoops...) This usually works fairly well with close female friends because they can more easily intuit the unspoken layers of meaning, but it can be a challenge when communicating with guys. Similarly, we may also read 'ant-language' messages where they don't actually exist. This has happened to me several times, at least. So, depending on whether your character uses this kind of communication or is skilled in reading it, there may be a certain amount of miscommunication between characters. On the other hand, it is also a useful skill for gauging how somebody is feeling even if they say they're feeling a different way or for navigating tricky conversations. It might also be useful if your characters need to hold a conversation but think they're being eavesdropped on. A lot of it is situational, though, so it might be useful to talk to female friends and family to see if they can explain situations where they've encountered or used it.
Oh, one more thing. Don't get between a mother and her child, or most family members, for that matter. This may not always be the case, but we can be extremely protective of the people we love, sometimes irrationally so. My boyfriend and I actually had an interesting discussion regarding Ned and Catelyn Stark in Game of Thrones. (Possible spoilers ahead, but probably nothing that hasn't been mentioned before. This is basically Season 1 and part of 2.)
Essentially, we were discussing whether we thought their actions were justified and discovered that we considered different obligations to take priority. He felt that honor and duty bound Ned to support the rightful king even if that put him and his family in danger, but I felt that his first priority should have been to his family and their safety. I did ultimately develop a better opinion of him after understanding that he chose to stand down from that for the chance of sparing his daughters, but I still argued that his obsession was what had put them in that situation in the first place. (Similar issue with the question of Jon Snow. Even if he lied to everyone else to protect his sister, he should have at least told the truth to his wife.) Similarly, he thought that Catelyn was being irrational and impractical about Rob and her boys, but I could empathize with her. Kingdoms and politics are less important than the safety of her children, and I would probably do the same.
All in all, I would think it would mostly just depend on your character. Women are not male characters with different bodies, but they're also not aliens from another planet, so how many of these things appear in your character may vary. I'd recommend spending time talking to friends and family specifically about similarities and differences they see between each other. Couples may be especially good to talk to because they're likely to have often come into contact with those invisible differences and had to discuss them to figure out a solution. Often, men and women alike may assume that the other is thinking or feeling in the same way they are, but may discover differences once they talk it out. You can also talk to your RP partner. If they're a girl, then ask them to help you spot issues or point out suggestions. They can probably help you out.
rae2nerdy
left site
To the above I would say that women are certainly not a monolith. I would say generalizing based on personal experience is also not perhaps the best way to go. I mean writing characters based on real life experiences is one thing but it tends to lead to confusing advice when you give it to other people. Because it's hard to account for all of our own biases and lived experiences when explaining things to others.
Which is why I tend to keep advice fairly general and give them a list of things for them to look at that will affect their character. Because as I think we all agree there is certainly no "right" or "wrong" way to write a woman. At least as long as you put effort into making a well rounded character first and foremost.
So When Writing A Character Think Of The Following.
You can do this with men or women obviously. Or genderless alien blobs from some made up planet.
Which is why I tend to keep advice fairly general and give them a list of things for them to look at that will affect their character. Because as I think we all agree there is certainly no "right" or "wrong" way to write a woman. At least as long as you put effort into making a well rounded character first and foremost.
So When Writing A Character Think Of The Following.
- Their core personality
- Any mental health issues they might have ( not just diagnosed issues but are they particularly shy, aggressive,etc. )
- What of their qualities where encouraged by their family?
- What of their qualities where stifled by their family?
- What if any role would their Race / Age / Sexuality / Religion / etc. have on their place in society?
- Is their any gender specific role they are meant to perform? Do they do so?
- What is their socieoeconomic role in their world ( are they rich, poor, famous, politically important?)
You can do this with men or women obviously. Or genderless alien blobs from some made up planet.
AlbaGuBrath
"Scotland Forever"
That's certainly fair; everyone is different. What I mean is, these are some observable differences that may come up and that I've talked about with others. That doesn't mean that it necessarily will be the case, but it might. It really depends on the individual. I would consider them discussion topics to think about potential differences and characteristics.
rae2nerdy
left site
Which is what I meant. Without having a fully fleshed out character sheet to compare to along with a detailed description of the setting any advice we give that deals with personal experiences is going to be effectively useless. It's sort of like information overload. We're giving too many individual bits of advice without taking into account that the roleplay itself might make any or all of them moot.
So that's why I said I stick to general advice. It's pretty much true for all characters (including women) and it helps give the person a starting point while still allowing them to build their own character within the story of their choice.
Coward
A marshmallow.
AlbaGuBrath
I have to agree with
rae2nerdy
. What you’ve described is almost a stereotypical woman. While I know women who are like that, I’m not one and I know far more who don’t fit in that mould. When you’re advising a man, I don’t think what he needs to hear is a stereotype he can get from watching any Hollywood movie: ‘subtley communicating, potentially emotional and attached to her family and children’. There’s nothing wrong with this type of person (in fact they’re usually lovely), but it’s a fairly narrow band.Consider that you might be like that, and therefore seek out women like yourself as friends. I’m not like that, and almost none of my friends are. I probably gravitate to the other sorts of women. Neither of us would be correct in generalising, so please just don’t.
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Idea
The Pun Tyrant
Ok, peeps, let's just calm down now.
AlbaGuBrath
was clearly talking about her own experience, she made as much clear with
Being the introduction to pratically every paragraph, plus the fact that some of things she "generalized" were things I had actually seen in documentaries. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't subscribe to those documentary's views, nor do I agree with what Alba said, but I do want to say there is no need to put down her points any more than what has already been done, nor to insist on things she has already said as criticism towards her.
Just putting that out there for fairness. Don't intend to and don't have time to start a fight.
AlbaGuBrath
was clearly talking about her own experience, she made as much clear with Being the introduction to pratically every paragraph, plus the fact that some of things she "generalized" were things I had actually seen in documentaries. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't subscribe to those documentary's views, nor do I agree with what Alba said, but I do want to say there is no need to put down her points any more than what has already been done, nor to insist on things she has already said as criticism towards her.
Just putting that out there for fairness. Don't intend to and don't have time to start a fight.
AlbaGuBrath
"Scotland Forever"
Very well, then, I'm afraid I must have miscommunicated. My intention was to suggest some specific cases I have seen where differences might be most obvious, not to imply that it was a generalized guideline. At any rate, can take it or leave it. Just trying to help! (:
rae2nerdy
left site
Ok, peeps, let's just calm down now.
Being the introduction to pratically every paragraph, plus the fact that some of things she "generalized" were things I had actually seen in documentaries. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't subscribe to those documentary's views, nor do I agree with what Alba said, but I do want to say there is no need to put down her points any more than what has already been done, nor to insist on things she has already said as criticism towards her.
Just putting that out there for fairness. Don't intend to and don't have time to start a fight.
And we were just saying that using your own experience as advice for someone else is ill advised at best. Because it gives people a limits the information the person recieves about the lived experience of other people.
Like if I were writing a French character. I asked hey any tips on writing a character from France?
If the advice was generalized - like related to general government, society, geography, etc. than that's helpful. It gives me some details to build my own character while not giving me any potentially limiting characterizations.
If the information however is just about a particular French person's friends and family that's slightly less helpful. Because I'm being given information that is too narrow. It's going to make it harder for me to build a French character that doesn't fit the information involved because that's the only "authentic" frame of reference I'll have.
It's the same idea here. By giving information related to a personal experience you're giving the person the idea that there is only one "authentic" way to be a woman. Even if it's not intentional ( and for the record I don't believe for a moment Alba meant anything of the sort ).
They're still presenting a very narrow view of womanhood as "authentic" without explaining in detail things that run counter to that.
rae2nerdy
left site
and we're not trying to pile on. just let you know that we haven't really reached the point where specific observations are needed. right now they are asking for advice on playing a general female. not a specific kind of woman. or so far as we know even a human woman or a woman that exists in a society like our own.
so like at this point keeping the advice simple and general is best because it will fit the broadest category of characters.
now if the OP comes back and says - Hey I want to play a kind of girly girl who likes feminine hobbies and wants to have kids. Any suggestions on differentiating her from my male characters?
Then that's where you can go in with the personal observations. Because that's a bit more helpful and you can tailor your advice to a specific type of woman.
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
There is a problem with that sentence, which was in the quotes I presented earlier. She didn't present the view as "authentic" she presented it as "her experience". She insisted on the fact multiple times even. Which may be a good or bad reference, but ultimately I think that should be left for the one that started the thread to decide.
rae2nerdy
left site
As she is in fact a female and she gave her own lived experiences. That is certainly authentic.
I mean you don't get much more authentic than saying " Hey I'm a lady. Here is how I have observed ladies to behave. "
Not only that we have been perfectly civil. We were not "tearing her down" we were merely stating that giving personal experience was premature. Wait for more details before you give specific advice. Stick to the general stuff for now.
You and I have both been in threads that were a hell of a lot more antagonistic. Hell you and I have certainly had some sharp words to say to one another over the years.
All things being equal this was actually a pretty tame conversation. Alba didn't seem particularly bothered by it so I don't see why you are.
Alteras
The Sleepy Prisoner
^
Vali Ulfr
I highly recommend this as a starting guideline to roleplaying as the opposite gender. You don't have to follow them, but they're quite a good set for those not so experienced.
Personally, I adhere to my own set of slightly different theories and concepts, having RPed as so many female characters in fantasy RPs (curse you fantasy artist bias!!), but that's just my personal preference and experiences. The guide that
Idea
made is a pretty good catch all for most RPs. Unless you are RPing in a setting of that requires you to explore gender roles, you'll be fine doing what you usually do as a male.For the ongoing discussion about stereotypes:It's fine if we get detailed at this stage. If we were to apply this the other way around where we're trying to give advice for playing a male, there would be just as many male character tropes to discuss and present. Generality is good, but detail is necessary as well. Ideally, we would be able to view everyone's opinions on gender norms, especially since the op is looking to get into FxF rps, something that would most likely be exploring sexuality and gender norms more closely than other RPs.
By having more character types, narrow or not, we'll be able to grasp a much larger range of characters that we wouldn't see in our daily life. Just because we don't see that character in our immediate lives doesn't mean that it doesn't occur in other cultures.
Coward
A marshmallow.
Idea
I'd invite you to consider the gender flip if you want to know what our issue is. Imagine you come to a thread : 'how do I write men? I'm a woman.'The first post in the thread goes like this :
"Well, I'm a man, and in my experience men are very gruff and only use verbal communication. We probably care less about our families and friends than you do as a woman, and we're worse at artistic and empathetic thinking. We just don't think the same way. Maybe that's just me.
Anyway we men are great at maths, in my experience."
It's... itchy, huh? These things are true of some men and may be statistically true of most men, but on the whole it gives a false impression of how similar men are to each other. Attempting to frame it as personal experience should help but doesn't, really. The reader comes away with the impression that these are universal truths. And even if it did help, men are nuanced, and one man's personal experience is not a great lens to examine manhood. Same applies to women.
I'm not offended, and I don't think
AlbaGuBrath
meant anything offensive by it. I just read it and got itchy, basically.
rae2nerdy
captured everything else that I wanted to say.
rae2nerdy
left site
Exactly I think for me the "itchiness" comes in because Alba never offered a frame of reference for her experience. And because of that what she had intended to come across as just " This is what I have observed of women" sounded more like "Well as a woman I say this is how women behave ".
By stating that she is a woman she's giving her experience enough weight to be taken as an authentic portrayal of womanhood. While not giving enough of a context to explain how she came to her conclusions.
EDITED for Better Example
So I think my core issue is that we as women are individuals. And our individuality is often a combination of many different factors ( which I listed above so I won't recount them here ).
So when speaking as an individual to someone who is not a woman and thus has not lived our experiences as women we need to remember, My observations are directly influenced by my life experience.
In the interest of being a good sport and proving I am not trying to tear Alba down I'll actually add in some of my own experiences. In bullets because I am a slight perfectionist with ADD and I like to keep my thoughts sequential and in list form.
Geeks Lady Cred : I am thirty year old librarian living in a small town in the USA. I grew up in the projects near an army base in NC. I am the eldest of six with four younger sisters. My mom suffers from mental health issues. I am technically hispanic ( my dad is hispanic and my grandmother first generation mexican immigrant ). I speak not a lick of spanish. I am aromantic. I have zero attachment to children, romance, or the idea of starting a family. I was raised christian but haven't gone to church willingly in years. Hopefully God and I are still cool. I am a giant nerd, most specifically a harry potter nerd. I literally discovered feminism and the idea of intersectionality through harry potter podcasts. This is how big my geek cred is.
Things Geek Has Experienced In Life That Relate To Womens.
Um. Yeah that's about all I got.
By stating that she is a woman she's giving her experience enough weight to be taken as an authentic portrayal of womanhood. While not giving enough of a context to explain how she came to her conclusions.
EDITED for Better Example
So I think my core issue is that we as women are individuals. And our individuality is often a combination of many different factors ( which I listed above so I won't recount them here ).
So when speaking as an individual to someone who is not a woman and thus has not lived our experiences as women we need to remember, My observations are directly influenced by my life experience.
In the interest of being a good sport and proving I am not trying to tear Alba down I'll actually add in some of my own experiences. In bullets because I am a slight perfectionist with ADD and I like to keep my thoughts sequential and in list form.
Geeks Lady Cred : I am thirty year old librarian living in a small town in the USA. I grew up in the projects near an army base in NC. I am the eldest of six with four younger sisters. My mom suffers from mental health issues. I am technically hispanic ( my dad is hispanic and my grandmother first generation mexican immigrant ). I speak not a lick of spanish. I am aromantic. I have zero attachment to children, romance, or the idea of starting a family. I was raised christian but haven't gone to church willingly in years. Hopefully God and I are still cool. I am a giant nerd, most specifically a harry potter nerd. I literally discovered feminism and the idea of intersectionality through harry potter podcasts. This is how big my geek cred is.
Things Geek Has Experienced In Life That Relate To Womens.
- Your mother often has a really interesting life story. One she'll share with you as you get older
- You are always way more like your mother than you think. I'm practically my mother's slightly more well-adjusted mini clone
- All hispanic women are short and fat. We talk with our hands. And often interrupt each other. *
- Also if you don't speak a language naturally "How you say" will probably be the first phrase you learn. Well besides "where's the bathroom?"
- Hispanic mom's are HELLA overbearing and all up in their kids grills. Always. Forever. You will die before your mother stops hovering over you. Even if you out live her. *
- Small towns are always racist. Even if they don't seem racist at first.
- The phrase "where are your people from?" is totally racist.
- No woman ever wants to hear the phrase "So when will you find a nice man/have some babies?"
- Having children is gross. Like the physical process is disgusting and I refuse to believe any sane woman will want to go through with it.
- Small humans are tiny and they look like floppy aliens. Yeah I said it. At me.
- Other people's children are a thousand percent better than popping out a small alien yourself. You can give them back when they get smelly/annoying *
- Romance is tired and overrated.
- Did I mention that no woman likes being asked when she'll get married or pop out little aliens? Cuz she doesn't
- Also inevitably, without fail, there will be at least one man at your place of work who is inappropriate. Usually there are more than one.
- No woman is flattered, finds it cute, or things it's endearing for a person to say they are pretty, have nice x attribute, or ask them on a date while they are at work. Men are the usual suspects but if a woman did it it's also creepy and inappropriate.
- Being gay is totally no big deal. Except you'll inevitably hear "the gay" in some psuedo not homophobic way at least once.*
- Old people don't know what gay is. Like my cousin had a girlfriend for three years and my grandma thought they were roommates* (also true of my nana)
- All women love animals.
- Especially dogs.*
- But cats are nice too.*
- #petsarechildrenforpeoplewhohatebabies ( i said what i said )*
- #millenialslovehashtags *
- Things Geek Nerds Out About : Sailor Moon, X-Men Animated Series, Animorphs, Comics, Anime, Manga, Studio Ghibli, Harry Potter, Feminism in any combination of the previously mentioned fandoms. ( admittedly it's been awhile for Sailor Moon, X-Men or Studio Ghibli)
- Things Geeks Outdoorsy Nerd Coworkers Like : camping, horses, boating, nature walks, bugs, birding, caves, geography, star gazing
- Stereotypical Phobias Geek's Family Has : mice. my mom will literally sob uncontrollably and once woke me up at 1am to kill a mouse that was barely the size of a pink eraser.
Um. Yeah that's about all I got.
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salty_ moustachio
thug . life
Really disagree with point 8. Most women I know are cool with being asked that.
And boy! You really hate kids!
I think personally Geek is in the minority there. Lots of girls think babies are cute and a good degree want to have their own.
Women are different. Some are super girlie, some are more butch. Some are in between.
Personally I cannot play super girlie characters but you can still be a girl and be a tomboy. Just make characters that aren't super cliché girl -girl and you'll be fine.
And boy! You really hate kids!
I think personally Geek is in the minority there. Lots of girls think babies are cute and a good degree want to have their own.
Women are different. Some are super girlie, some are more butch. Some are in between.
Personally I cannot play super girlie characters but you can still be a girl and be a tomboy. Just make characters that aren't super cliché girl -girl and you'll be fine.
rae2nerdy
left site
Edit : Cuz I am no longer sleepy and thus can be more coherent.
salty_ moustachio
and the idea that your observation differs from mine sort of proves the point
Coward
and I are trying to make.
it's easy to make the common sense statement : All women are different and have different experiences. It is a whole other thing to acknowledge our own innate biases. How our frame of reference will skew the data into supporting our own generalizations.
As
Coward
put it we all like to surround ourselves with people of shared interests and values. This has the unintended side effect of reinforcing things we naturally hold to be true. Which is how you'll get the idea that "All women believe X" and then have another woman immediately be like "Well that's a minority opinion. All women believe the opposite."
Neither of us are wrong. We just are dealing with frames of reference. Because of this we are not pooling from the same TYPE of woman and therefore our data is going to be skewed. And that's always going to be the case. Because no one woman can realistically be expected to speak for the lived experiences of all women in her state, country, religion, ethnicity, etc.
Which is why I recommended we add in our own experiences as context when giving out advice. Because those experiences are going to "skew the data" so to speak in favor of our own observations. Which is why I prefaced my list with my "Lady Cred" to give context for my observations.
And actually if you don't mind
salty_ moustachio
I'd be interested to hear your own "Lady Cred" and some more of your observations. I think it will help the OP by giving them examples of different experiences and kinds of women. Plus it will sort of make the whole side-conversation interesting too.
Side Note : Also the baby thing was mostly a joke. As was the hispanic thing. Those were me poking fun of stereotypes while also giving my own observations. I've edited the post to reflect that.
Side Note 2: Because I am having way too much fun examining my own innate biases here is some receipts on my observations for #8.
salty_ moustachio
and the idea that your observation differs from mine sort of proves the point
Coward
and I are trying to make.it's easy to make the common sense statement : All women are different and have different experiences. It is a whole other thing to acknowledge our own innate biases. How our frame of reference will skew the data into supporting our own generalizations.
As
Coward
put it we all like to surround ourselves with people of shared interests and values. This has the unintended side effect of reinforcing things we naturally hold to be true. Which is how you'll get the idea that "All women believe X" and then have another woman immediately be like "Well that's a minority opinion. All women believe the opposite."Neither of us are wrong. We just are dealing with frames of reference. Because of this we are not pooling from the same TYPE of woman and therefore our data is going to be skewed. And that's always going to be the case. Because no one woman can realistically be expected to speak for the lived experiences of all women in her state, country, religion, ethnicity, etc.
Which is why I recommended we add in our own experiences as context when giving out advice. Because those experiences are going to "skew the data" so to speak in favor of our own observations. Which is why I prefaced my list with my "Lady Cred" to give context for my observations.
And actually if you don't mind
salty_ moustachio
I'd be interested to hear your own "Lady Cred" and some more of your observations. I think it will help the OP by giving them examples of different experiences and kinds of women. Plus it will sort of make the whole side-conversation interesting too.Side Note : Also the baby thing was mostly a joke. As was the hispanic thing. Those were me poking fun of stereotypes while also giving my own observations. I've edited the post to reflect that.
Side Note 2: Because I am having way too much fun examining my own innate biases here is some receipts on my observations for #8.
So the spoiler title is my Observation. Below I'll go over how I came to make it. ( because I'm a research nerd and this is actually kinda fun )
First Experience :
My mom has been married four times. The longest marriage was to my dad and lasted three years. The shortest lasted I believe two months. Why she got married so many times is related to HER lived experiences so I won't offer too much on that.
Second Experience :
I'm aromantic. This is a part of the LGBTQA acronym because apparently a lot of people love labels.(/s) In all seriousness it's kind of refereshing to have a word to put to what I always assumed/was told was "spinsterish" or "modest" personality. Basically in my own definition aromantic means that I have zero desire for romance. Part of this is shyness but most of it is just a genuine lack of interest. As a side effect to my lack of interest in romance I have no interest in dating, sex, children, marriage etc. Because again I have no interest in romance. Not with anyone. Not ever.
This can lead to a lot of annoyance with main stream culture in general. As there is still this widespread belief (in movies/tv/books/etc) that a woman should have no greater wish in life than to be romantically attached to another. That your somehow less of a woman if you don't pair up. It can be frustrating to have that thrown in your face especially if your just truly and completely not interested.
Third Experience : Nerdy Ladies
Okay I mean a very specific kind of Nerdy lady. Which brings up another point I wanted to make. Even among stereotypes there are nuanced differences. Not all women who identify as Geeks will like the same things or have the same opinions on those things. In fandom this leads to blood feuds and eternal grudges (/only slightly sarcastic)
Third Experience B : Nerdy Ladies That Are All Up In That Feminism
So I read a lot of nerdy blogs and I have a lot of very nerdy friends. A good portion are married actually ( I'd say half at least ) but none of them ever really liked the whole "marriage/babies" thing.
For the blogs and the non-married friends it's because it is seen as just throwing in our face that all women must want babies and marriage. It's like a law. If you have a lady flower you must want to bring forth a floppy alien from said flower. And some feel this is dismissive and others think it's just rude. Like your assuming an answer to a question based solely on our gender.
Married Friends it's more of a manners thing I think. Like...um Nana can you maybe not ask when the great grand babies are coming. It's kinda embarrassing and a little awkward. And when random strangers do it it's really uncomfortable. Because kinda not your business when me and S/O are gonna get hitched. Or have our floppy aliens.
Relevant Article
Heard about this in a podcast. How millennial women are having less babies. I did a quick google and here's a nice article on why.
The Real Reasons Fewer Millennials Are Having Kids – HealthyWay
I also think it sort of illustrates some more broad observations I've made on millenial women in general. I mean the 20 - 35 crowd. Anyone younger is Generation God Help You We're All Screwed (sorta kidding)
First Experience :
My mom has been married four times. The longest marriage was to my dad and lasted three years. The shortest lasted I believe two months. Why she got married so many times is related to HER lived experiences so I won't offer too much on that.
Second Experience :
I'm aromantic. This is a part of the LGBTQA acronym because apparently a lot of people love labels.(/s) In all seriousness it's kind of refereshing to have a word to put to what I always assumed/was told was "spinsterish" or "modest" personality. Basically in my own definition aromantic means that I have zero desire for romance. Part of this is shyness but most of it is just a genuine lack of interest. As a side effect to my lack of interest in romance I have no interest in dating, sex, children, marriage etc. Because again I have no interest in romance. Not with anyone. Not ever.
This can lead to a lot of annoyance with main stream culture in general. As there is still this widespread belief (in movies/tv/books/etc) that a woman should have no greater wish in life than to be romantically attached to another. That your somehow less of a woman if you don't pair up. It can be frustrating to have that thrown in your face especially if your just truly and completely not interested.
Third Experience : Nerdy Ladies
Okay I mean a very specific kind of Nerdy lady. Which brings up another point I wanted to make. Even among stereotypes there are nuanced differences. Not all women who identify as Geeks will like the same things or have the same opinions on those things. In fandom this leads to blood feuds and eternal grudges (/only slightly sarcastic)
Third Experience B : Nerdy Ladies That Are All Up In That Feminism
So I read a lot of nerdy blogs and I have a lot of very nerdy friends. A good portion are married actually ( I'd say half at least ) but none of them ever really liked the whole "marriage/babies" thing.
For the blogs and the non-married friends it's because it is seen as just throwing in our face that all women must want babies and marriage. It's like a law. If you have a lady flower you must want to bring forth a floppy alien from said flower. And some feel this is dismissive and others think it's just rude. Like your assuming an answer to a question based solely on our gender.
Married Friends it's more of a manners thing I think. Like...um Nana can you maybe not ask when the great grand babies are coming. It's kinda embarrassing and a little awkward. And when random strangers do it it's really uncomfortable. Because kinda not your business when me and S/O are gonna get hitched. Or have our floppy aliens.
Relevant Article
Heard about this in a podcast. How millennial women are having less babies. I did a quick google and here's a nice article on why.
The Real Reasons Fewer Millennials Are Having Kids – HealthyWay
I also think it sort of illustrates some more broad observations I've made on millenial women in general. I mean the 20 - 35 crowd. Anyone younger is Generation God Help You We're All Screwed (sorta kidding)
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