Other My Different thought on Character Backgrounds

[EllyGloom]

Okay, so I saw a post in another thread about people saying backstory and personality are left empty to be "learned during roleplay."

I ALWAYS do this, but I'm far from a lazy RPer. I type tons of stuff and put a lot of effort into my stories. I mean, maybe a little bit of it is laziness, but a majority is being indecisive and having a different writing style due to running tabletop games for such a long time. When a player decides to do something insane and explode a building, sometimes you need to pull something out of your hat.

I prefer to keep people guessing. I incorporate the unknown into my stories and roleplays. Deception, amnesia, psychological illness. If you know everything about a person, what's there to talk about in roleplay? Most of the RP I do in online games is getting to know each other stuff. An emotionally charged backstory reveal just doesn't have any feeling to it if the other RPer already knows what happened.

Plus I do my best work while improvising. I ran a VtM game for almost two years, and at the end I told them I never prewrote anything and everything, including the characters were made up off the top of my head in the moment. They were quite surprised.

I don't wanna write paragraphs of details including well thought out biology of my character (should they be an original species) and get denied to join an RP because I don't want to play a character with no secrets where her every intention and detail is known.

Anyway, I'd like to discuss methods where I wouldn't be shunned by the elite RPers of the world, but I can maintain my writing style and keep the level of immersion that I love so very much.

 

[Marira]

As I'm sure you know, The main purpose for character sheets is so you have a base/foundation for your character that you, and others, can go back to. Sometimes, if I'm not totally in the headspace of my character, I go back and read my character sheet to see if the reaction I had in mind actually fits the personality of my character. I also go back and read others' character sheets to get a general idea of what reaction I can expect if I interact with them a certain way.

Simply stating "you'll find out in the rp" for one, it does appear lazy, though you might not be a lazy rp'er yourself, and rather than the character sheet/bio being a solid foundation,it's left as an empty husk, and while you've got these big amazing plans for this character, no other writer can see that. I hesitate to say that they'll see or know enough about your character to warrant an interaction with them, if you do that. Not to mention leaving too blank of a canvas has this correlation with metagaming attached to it.

Now, you don't necessarily have to create an in-depth bio if you don't want to, so long as you execute it right. You can give a somewhat brief description of your character's background or upbringing, (like they were born/raised in [location] and you type out their speech with that sort of inflection/drawl/accent/etc. Or they're the eldest/middle/youngest/only child if it's deemed relevant to their personality,) y'know, stuff that's expected of every character, yet individualized enough so that it's understood to be your character/your creation/ your baby, for lack of a better term, and then wrap it up hinting that the character has a dark secret that you plan on revealing as the story goes on.

 

[WlfSamurai]

I disagree, sort of. Though, I’m also not a standard free-form player or dice player. I believe strongly emergent play and “play to find out”. Most of my experience comes from the table, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I personally do the same. If I’m required to write a background, I’ll give a few high-level details that result in a couple paragraphs at most. The least amount the better. This is not laziness. Not in my case, anyway. You see, the point is that I’m looking to tie moments in my characters life to other players or parts of the world. With an open backstory, I’m free to mold my character’s history to whatever I need. I’m free use it as a blank canvas. In that same spirit, I can do any flashback scene with any other character or characters.

But, my view on RP differs, I think, than most. The RP/game/narrative should be a shared collaborative space with the discussion/writing being the medium. All players and ST/GM/MC should be playing to find out. As soon as you’re setting plot ahead of time as ST/GM/MC, you’re pre-playing he game. That’s not to say that content isn’t good. It just isn’t a game. It’s a book. Or a predetermined story that you’re not allowing any input on.

The character backstory is the same. You bring it to the game and you’ve pre-played your character’s story. It’s heading in a certain direction. This is why a some RPs fail or are awkward. You have a predetermined plot with a set of characters who are already in motion toward a predetermined direction. Something has to give. Often, the players tweak or adjust their characters to fit the game. If not in their backstory, at least in some other heavy-handed “we’re already a group” kind of way. But because none of those characters were open, build pre-game relationships to other characters is a chore and unintuitive.

I could go on and on. And I know I’ve already lost a lot of people. A lot of RP here has an unspoken social contract. But I think there’s more to gain from the view that it’s a shared collaborative space. Our imaginations are the paints and the discussion is the canvas. Don’t bring pre-painted pictures.

Now, the caveats.

One, the above only works if that’s what’s agreed upon by the players and GM. If the GM is running a game with a plot and says to bring a backstory, by god do it. I mean, do what little you have to so it’s acceptable, but don’t be rude (not saying you are just talking here).

And two, you’ll see that I run games here not anywhere near what I wrote above for my ideal. This is because the indie dice RPGs I’d prefer that embrace/encourage the above are not popular and I can’t find players.

That said, the free-form RPs/RP’ers are way more open to this because it’s close to what they do to RP their style of story.

For those interested, dice games that support this are Apocalypse World, Burning Wheel, Hillfolk, etc. There are so many dice games now called story games that do this. General RP stuff for this would be Jeepform and free-from LARPs and such.

Okay, okay. I’ll leave now. Sorry.

*takes soap box with him*

 

[rae2nerdy]

I would say it depends on the roleplay itself.

Character Sheets are sort of like filling out an application for a job you want.

The reason you fill them out isn't to limit the amount of play you can do in the roleplay it's so the GM can make sure that your character fits the lore and the story they're telling. It's to ensure your character isn't too one dimensional / over powered / useless / or just in general a bad fit.

As I said on the previous thread. A background doesn't have to cover every aspect of your character's entire motivations. No more than a job application is going to contain your entire autobiography. No you just need to give the information relevant to the overall plot and setting and flesh it out as you go.

I find the best way to think of the background is an elevator pitch.

( If your unfamiliar this is the concept in which you describe your character in one or two paragraphs like you are pitching them to someone in an elevator ).

You don't typically go too much into specifics just give the broad strokes so the person gets general motivation, character beginnings, and relevant quirks that set your character apart from the rest.

If your backstory can fullfill the function of selling your character in a short and concise manner than it's fine.

( This is of course subject to specific rules by the GM. Some will ask for more detailed backstories, but your more than welcome to just skip those roleplays )

Furthermore this is specific to group roleplays where you have to fit your character into a larger narrative run by someone else.

In 1x1s people can often forgo character sheets entirely and just make their characters up as they go along. But since that's usually a story that is written between two people there is less of an issue of making sure a character is fleshed out before hand.

 

[Bone2pick]

Anyway, I'd like to discuss methods where I wouldn't be shunned by the elite RPers of the world, but I can maintain my writing style and keep the level of immersion that I love so very much.

I'm not keen on the words "elite" & "shunned" here, as I doubt the first label is how the players you're referring to would describe themselves, and I can't imagine anyone accepting the verb shunned to describe not preferring or accepting a player and/or character.

Besides that objection, have you considered that you might be trying to force a square peg into a round hole? That your "writing style" will play nicely with some RPs and poorly with others?

 

[EllyGloom]

I'm not keen on the words "elite" & "shunned" here, as I doubt the first label is how the players you're referring to would describe themselves, and I can't imagine anyone accepting the verb shunned to describe not preferring or accepting a player and/or character.

Besides that objection, have you considered that you might be trying to force a square peg into a round hole? That your "writing style" will play nicely with some RPs and poorly with others?

Possibly.

 

[kevintheradioguy]

I think until you have an idea of what your character is, it doesn't matter how exactly you play the backstory out. I go from my own experience. And I mean my own, not my character's. I don't tell my full bio to every new person I meet. But when the opportunity calls for it, for instance, we describe out travels, or talk about what teachers we had, or the bloodline - I tell that part of my bio to support the conversation, if I feel comfortable telling. Same my characters do. Lately, I threw a character at my player who had a harsh upbringing, and he didn't like to talk about it, and avoided the theme, and the player was left flabbergasted: how can it be someone won't tell me their past? Truth is, the character just isn't comfortable telling at that point.

That being said, I want/need to know my co-players backstory before we start playing. Note, me, not my character(s). Because this allows to make a story with best immersion for both of us, it allows to avoid the weird things of "Oh, so you're from Smithsville as well? And you were in the Skull gangs as well? Since 1990 up to 2010 as well? Wow, I wonder how we never met!". Also, it allows me, the player, to be sure I'm OK with my partner's character. Because I wouldn't want to play with an amazing assassin who just so happens to suddenly reveal they're a cursed dragon princess, and a demigod, and the main figure of a prophesy that saves the world from a total inhalation. Because however good the player is, I am not comfortable with that sort of thing. I've been playing for more than twenty years now, and I know how not to mix what I know, and what character knows. I have to know a lot. My character doesn't.

 

[Chimney Swift]

To be honest, I get a bit annoyed when people don't have at least an outline of a personality and backstory on their CS.

A character sheet is your chance to show the GM and the other players what your writing style is like, and to give them a quick taste of what to expect from your character. Of course you don't have to reveal everything, it's just a preview to build off of.

If you want to avoid spoiling the deepest factors of your character, tell us about something else! Tell us about their family dynamic, their hometown, something they struggle with, their level of honesty, how they walk, a small moment that shaped their worldview. It doesn't have to be a comprehensive list of everything they think and everything they've been through.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Yeah I think OP might be confusing character backstory with character reveal. No one is saying that a character backstory has to detail every single aspect of the character and that you can't keep anything a secret for later.

Ex. Character Reveal
Character X is secretly an assassin hired by shadowy organization to kill all the playable characters in the roleplay.

You don't have to put in their backstory
Character X is secretly an assassin who is going to kill all the playable characters on page six after a dramatic reveal that they were the ones murdering random NPCs the entire time...dun dun dunnnnnn..

You do however have to come up with some kind of cover story or overview for character X that informs the GM that you understand the lore / are making an effort with character creation.

Ex.
Character X is a photographer who has always had a fondness for mysteries. Their early years were spent pouring over mystery novels and solving all sort of little crimes. They even got a little detective hat and a great dane puppy when they were six to complete the image. Their dog died years ago but they still have their old hat embarrassingly enough. They joined the current Mystery Club as a way to find others who shared their interests, but they never expected to be out solving actual crimes.

Gives you an overview of the character and also doesn't reveal anything about them actually being a secret assassin.

Now given the example I would say the reveal would have to be telegraphed a little just because it involves removing other playable characters and impeding the fellow roleplayers ability to participate in the game.

But you can do that by having the character do maybe a few odd things in the roleplay or have them show up in places they shouldn't with excuses.

And definitely I would inform the GM prior to actually killing any playable characters. Let them give you suggestions on possibly killing off people who are already slated to leave or have them ask if anyone would want to play new characters and let the previous characters die that way.

But otherwise there isn't anything wrong with having a reveal later on in the roleplay.

( ps. I realize this is kind of a specific example but hopefully the general idea is good. but for tl:dr you can add a reveal if you want just make sure to tell the GM first before you make any drastic changes to the character/plot/other playable characters )

*** Please note the above examples are based off of GROUP roleplays. A 1x1 will be a little different and honestly just a matter of personal taste for your partners ***

 

[WlfSamurai]

Yeah, and I want to add that there really is no wrong way to play...except for going against the agreed upon social contract. If everyone agrees to have some or a bunch of backstory written out, it's really only disrupting the game to not do the same. Don't compare yourself. Talk to the GM/ST/MC about it and work out how much they need and what they're looking for. Some people really like writing a lot of detail into the backstory on their sheet. That doesn't mean you have to match it.

 

[BackSet]

I disagree with this but inoy to a certain point. As a GM I ask that everyone have at least a small bit of history included in their CS. At most i want just enough to explain any powers that aren't racial. Other than that I agree with other stuff tou said. I too like to improvise and much of the stuff I write on my CS is not important. When I write a history i do a basic outline of my characters history and pull the rest out of my a** later when I need to.

 

[Idea]

I wouldn't shun you or call you a lazy RPer. I know many, too many, are lazy, but I wouldn't call someone that or single them out for it, because I won't try to pretend like I have THAT kind of insight about people.

That said, experience has taught me a few things, whether those are right or wrong, for better or for worse. To despise the idea of "learned during the roleplay" was one of those.

But before I start listing my issues, I do want to point out that I am not against hiding info from your fellow roleplayers. Heck, in 1x1 discuss and work out with your partner the extent to which you'd like to keep it hidden at will and with groups the GM is the only one that really NEEDS to know unless you establish a relationship of some kind with another character (if someone is your older sister, they probably would know a nice chunk of your life story). However, I do argue that even if it is not shared, it still needs to EXIST. For this reason I began incorporating the secret system, where players have part of their CS which they can PM to me instead of writing down in a public place. By sending the PM you are saying "this is everything that is relevant to know about the character's backstory". That's all I need. So long as the rest doesn't have an impact, adding or taking away is even fine.

I'll pick up from that point and say this: If your character doesn't have a defined backstory, they aren't a character. They are, being generous, a puppet. Now, this doesn't mean every single second of their lives must be described in deep detail, but if YOU their maker doesn't know that backstory, then the character will never really be their own person. Because every life choice one makes, everything that happens to us, affects the world around us, and affects us as individuals. A minor change in one's past can have HUGE ramifications in the future. In who they are today. And each action someone makes, that action affects the world and affects others. Always in minor ways, but each minor way will contnue to ramify. So if you, player, don't know the backstory, the character will be missing an essential piece of who they are. If I, GM, am missing that backstory there may come to be clashes because your backstory suddenly doesn't fit with the world.

My second problem is moreso of experience. People who have "learned during the roleplay" type backstories tend to play it for convenience. This is even worse when it comes to personalities, but that's not the topic right now. The point is, as a GM or fellow player, if you don't reveal your backstory, I may not be able to trust you to simply accept a moment isnt your moment. To not pull a plot device out of your ass, usually a Deus Ex Machina. And I wish I could just say to myself "nah, I'm being too paranoid". This happens. Worse it keeps happening. DO note I am not making any personal accusations. I don't know if you personally would fall into making things awkward and contrived by making up what's convenient in terms of backstory instead of what ought to be there. But I do know there are plenty that do. By my experience, almost all do. It only takes one asshole to ruin the mood and unfortunately most roleplayers vastly overstimate their own skill.

Reveals are a pain in the ass to put it gently. They require a huge amount of effort and care, and even then often fail. Reveals will usually either be overwhelming or they will be controversial. Character background reveals are not always this way, but that frequency skyrockets when the GM was not informed of it. Plotholes, contradictions, abusing it to solve problem thus breaking the plot, involving an unwilling character, bringing banned elements into the roleplay etc... are just a few of the things these kind of reveals bring. And the thing is, none of them was even ever approved: The GM can't approve what they don't know of.

The last problem I have is a worldbuilding problem: If your character exists, so does their backstory. If you haven't come up with it, that's inherently an issue because you are using an element of the world that should exist in full but only exists in part.



So what can be done about this? Well, assuming you want to keep your stuff hidden and some degree of flexibility...
--------------->Talk to your GM to negotiate keeping things hidden from other players
--------------->Look at your character's personality, abilities, etc... and come up with the appropriate way to justify those within the setting
--------------->List down major reveals
--------------->List other potentially plot-relevant details such as the character knowing some organization or them being secretely proficient at something, etc...
--------------->Form a backstory with the points mentioned before. This will be a very loose backstory, maybe even in bullet points, simply detailing everything that is plot and setting relevant for evaluation and to be taken into account.
--------------->Make sure that no new additions to your backstory allow you to solve any current problem or problems in the visible future, and that those additions are properly discussed with those they ought to be discussed with. Obviously , avoid contradictions.




So yeah. It drives me nuts when someone states they want to "reveal it in the RP", especially if I'm GMing and have explicitly put in the rules that that is forbidden, but I hope my comment helps if not with your peculiar situation then with understanding a bit the other side of the argument.

 

[EllyGloom]

The GM knowing everything is totally fine. I'm just weird with the players knowing. I didn't know there were GMs here.

 

[Idea]

The GM knowing everything is totally fine. I'm just weird with the players knowing. I didn't know there were GMs here.

Who do you think sets up group roleplays lol

 

[Shuusuke]

I play a game (or played, since it's been inactive lately) where every round you join, you start as a random character. You pick whether you want a male or female one (or that you don't care which you get), but the appearance and name are random. Unless you end up being a role (killer, accomplice, suspect, detective, enforcer, medium, Golden Witch, Dead Apostle, etc.) nothing at all is given to you about their background.

So in that game, you make up whatever you want on the fly, provided it's realistic and/or fitting with the mode of the round. There, you have no idea what you're getting into. I think it fits there because it's a round thing. Every round lasts 12 ingame hours, which usually translates to an hour and a half in real time. And that's it, once that time passes, you forget everything and then enter a new one. You'll spend at most an hour and a half roleplaying that character. The round's also usually about murder, so oftentimes the action takes over. So if I'm not going in with high expectations, finding what I'm in for during the round works.

But here, it's a long term thing (supposedly anyway, I never had a long-lasting RP...). You spend time planning your character for your forum RP, stake out how the other characters are, plan ahead how to have interesting interactions with them, how to progress the story with them, and more. I need to know what I'm getting into. I need to know that the other characters are interesting, I need to know that the other players can write well enough to keep me interested and whatnot. And all of that has to happen before I join, because I don't want to be the guy that ditches an RP because it's not what I was looking for. It's not only a matter of being rude to the other participants, but that wasted effort is really disappointing to me.

So in short, when I'm looking for RPs here, I'm expecting some kind of return for the effort and time I spent writing my posts, by having the other players write things that keep me interested and allows for the story to be collaboratively written with a certain quality. Knowing the other characters gives me the closest to a guarantee I can ever have. I'm not here to take risks (that's what I do in that game), which is what I would be taking if there's nothing about the other characters. More isn't necessarily better either, but it has to be enough for me to know what to expect from the player and the character. A failed RP there will have cost me an hour and a half, but a failed RP here will have cost me...well, so far, weeks at least. So it really depends on the type of RPing you're talking about. No background works on some, but doesn't on others.

 

[EllyGloom]

I play a game (or played, since it's been inactive lately) where every round you join, you start as a random character. You pick whether you want a male or female one (or that you don't care which you get), but the appearance and name are random. Unless you end up being a role (killer, accomplice, suspect, detective, enforcer, medium, Golden Witch, Dead Apostle, etc.) nothing at all is given to you about their background.

So in that game, you make up whatever you want on the fly, provided it's realistic and/or fitting with the mode of the round. There, you have no idea what you're getting into. I think it fits there because it's a round thing. Every round lasts 12 ingame hours, which usually translates to an hour and a half in real time. And that's it, once that time passes, you forget everything and then enter a new one. You'll spend at most an hour and a half roleplaying that character. The round's also usually about murder, so oftentimes the action takes over. So if I'm not going in with high expectations, finding what I'm in for during the round works.

But here, it's a long term thing (supposedly anyway, I never had a long-lasting RP...). You spend time planning your character for your forum RP, stake out how the other characters are, plan ahead how to have interesting interactions with them, how to progress the story with them, and more. I need to know what I'm getting into. I need to know that the other characters are interesting, I need to know that the other players can write well enough to keep me interested and whatnot. And all of that has to happen before I join, because I don't want to be the guy that ditches an RP because it's not what I was looking for. It's not only a matter of being rude to the other participants, but that wasted effort is really disappointing to me.

So in short, when I'm looking for RPs here, I'm expecting some kind of return for the effort and time I spent writing my posts, by having the other players write things that keep me interested and allows for the story to be collaboratively written with a certain quality. Knowing the other characters gives me the closest to a guarantee I can ever have. I'm not here to take risks (that's what I do in that game), which is what I would be taking if there's nothing about the other characters. More isn't necessarily better either, but it has to be enough for me to know what to expect from the player and the character. A failed RP there will have cost me an hour and a half, but a failed RP here will have cost me...well, so far, weeks at least. So it really depends on the type of RPing you're talking about. No background works on some, but doesn't on others.

That sounds SO fun!!

 

[kitphiroth]

So, I guess I am going to put in my 2 cents. I do only 1x1 roleplays and have had a lot of different experiences with and without character sheets.

I prefer them because I am usually the one directing the story, and while I am directing it in the 1x1 I allow the other player to throw in as many things they want within reason. It also is meant to keep things from being written into a hole..

For example: I roleplayed with a guy who wrote his character being the son of a general. He was suppose to be my characters long time beat friend.

Now, the problem with that is that he did not include his characters personality because he wanted to "find it out in roleplay", which is lazy to me.

I let him do this, which he had his character basically being bipolar. He would do things to be nice, then he would carelessly abuse her and go back to caring about her. This caused my character to completely break, and because he was suppose to be the villian and kept switching back and forth it forced my hand to make mine the villian.

I did not enjoy playing her as a broken villian type because he couldn't keep his character straight. He told me he plays his mental issues through his roleplay, which I would have been fine with had I known that prior.

We keep writing into walls because he reveals shit to me that he didn't tell me prior to our roleplay about his character.

This is bad, lazy writing and telling on his part and I suffered while he "played it out". We still roleplay, but it's difficult because of his play style.

Another player gave me a general personality, general background. He didn't reveal anything, but created things beside me. While there Is an overarching plot for us, we have other things we do. We worked together when we had problems in our roleplay, if he felt some thing might be too damaging for the roleplay we would talk about it.

The difference is that no matter how much you write, if the writer is lazy? The writer is lazy, but it makes me apprehensive not to ask for more information from people due to laziness and issues with players who don't show the same care that I do.