Viewpoint MxM Pairings are my least favorite demographic

[Lord Aphrodite]

Now, you're probably thinking that this stems from some sort of homophobia or bigotry, and trust me, it doesn't. AS SUCH, DON'T COME ATTACKING ME IN THIS THREAD BECAUSE OF MY VIEWPOINTS! I'm genuinely curious for an answer.

I'm a stickler for a good pairing that's rooted in good character development. I think that my character needs to have some justifiable attraction to my partner's character in order for some sort of romance to bloom.

With that now being said, I've tried M// pairings on 10+ separate occasions, and I've come to realize that there are three different types of people that I've come in contact with.

1. The fluffy romance type: They just want a cute romance and don't put any development behind it.

2. Those looking for erotica: Enough said.

3. People who seem very interested, but then ghost after learning that I want real development.

Now, I'm completely willing to admit and change my viewpoint on this, after 10+ failed occasions, maybe it's me that's the problem. But I want to know: Those of you who do M// pairings, why are you guys always jumping the gun on romance and then getting mad when my character is unable to reciprocate those feelings naturally?

 

[rae2nerdy]

Out of curiosity have you found significantly different viewpoints with other types of pairings? Cuz honestly that just describes my experience with romance roleplayers period. And I have zero preference for gender combinations.

 

[Lord Aphrodite]

Out of curiosity have you found significantly different viewpoints with other types of pairings? Cuz honestly that just describes my experience with romance roleplayers period. And I have zero preference for gender combinations.

I've only encountered this sort of problem in M// pairings. I've met my share of creepy MxF and F// roleplayers, but not on the level that I've found them when doing M// pairings.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I've only encountered this sort of problem in M// pairings. I've met my share of creepy MxF and F// roleplayers, but not on the level that I've found them when doing M// pairings.

That’s interesting. As I said it’s pretty much just a universal thing in my experience. Out of curiosity what are you playing in the MxF ? Does the age and gender of your partner change from one type to another?

 

[Lord Aphrodite]

That’s interesting. As I said it’s pretty much just a universal thing in my experience. Out of curiosity what are you playing in the MxF ? Does the age and gender of your partner change from one type to another?

I'll play either in the MxF, I generally take the one that my partner does not. I can't rightly say how the age and gender of my partners plays into the problem because I don't vet my partners in that way. I'm sure it does play a part, but generally I don't ask.

 

[Lord Aphrodite]

OK, so, before answering I want to make a very clear PSA: I am against homophobia and I do my tolerate such views, whether it being talking ooc or in my daily life. I also don't think that mxm pairings are childish and unable to be integrated into a well developed story, on the contrary.
With thay being said, these are my views on the matter:

Nowadays younger generations tend to romanticise relationships, including LGBT ones.
By your descriptions, I believe that you might be describing younger roleplayers, or roleplayers in general whose sole purpose is to build a generic romantic plot based on a MxM pairing. And there is nothing bad about it, since both roleplayers are on the same page about it.
However, a bit in line with what you just said, if romance is introduced on the roleplay, I expect it to serve a greater purpose than just fluff or any other superficial goal, but this is just a preference, and definitely not everyone thinks the same way.

It is undeniable the amount of people that seem to enjoy these romanticised versions of LGBT pairings. Nevertheless, such is very specific of a certain demographic profile.
Many people are often introduced to the genre through anime fanfics or even anime/manga, as it is fairly common to see such types of relationships in such entertainment industry.

However, I think that it is important to emphasise something about this topic: it is not correct to romanticise LGBT relationships. It is undeniable that there is a huge fetishism around such relationships in such stories, which does not contribute in any way to the normalisation and acceptance of LGBT relationships in real life. And that is a huge problem.

This is an excellent answer, and probably the problem I've been running into. I've found that M// are more fetishized (in my opinion) and are generally 'played off' instead of properly developed; this is in the context of popular media and such.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I'll play either in the MxF, I generally take the one that my partner does not. I can't rightly say how the age and gender of my partners plays into the problem because I don't vet my partners in that way. I'm sure it does play a part, but generally I don't ask.

I would say age and gender does play a part as a significant portion of people asking for MxM are straight women. And I think if you did you own internal look you would find that most of the time when you do MxF than you are playing a male.

I say that cuz it’s been my experience as well. When I leave it up to my partner they tend to play the gender that lines up with their IRL sexuality. So since a vast majority of role players are straight women they play the straight female character in romance.

They also tend to treat male x male relationships as MxF relationships. Where your goal is basically to play the male love interest of their character.

why you might be getting a more overt issue with the writing is they are just bad at writing gay romance. Because they aren’t gay men but straight women and thus they are unsure how to write men in a relationship outside of stereotypes

 

[Lord Aphrodite]

I would say age and gender does play a part as a significant portion of people asking for MxM are straight women. And I think if you did you own internal look you would find that most of the time when you do MxF than you are playing a male.

I say that cuz it’s been my experience as well. When I leave it up to my partner they tend to play the gender that lines up with their IRL sexuality. So since a vast majority of role players are straight women they play the straight female character in romance.

They also tend to treat male x male relationships as MxF relationships. Where your goal is basically to play the male love interest of their character.

why you might be getting a more overt issue with the writing is they are just bad at writing gay romance. Because they aren’t gay men but straight women and thus they are unsure how to write men in a relationship outside of stereotypes

You've certainly given me a lot to think about, for sure. I think that the fetishization of LGBTQ+ relationships is part of the problem too, as you said. Maybe I should be more stringent on my requirements from now on.

 

[rae2nerdy]

You've certainly given me a lot to think about, for sure. I think that the fetishization of LGBTQ+ relationships is part of the problem too, as you said. Maybe I should be more stringent on my requirements from now on.

I don’t think it’s always necessarily a fetishization as people being very bad at writing romance from a different point of view. You see the same issue in women that only play female characters in MxF romantic pairings. Cuz they just don’t feel like they can portray a male being in love with a woman. Or (perhaps a touch more honestly) they want to be able to insert themselves into the romance and it is easier to do that when their point of view character follows their real life preference.

So I think the issue with Male x Male is that they have a hard time finding a point of view when it comes to playing a different gender and sexuality so they basically play their males like females only with the pronouns switched.

And if you are playing your character as a real person rather than just an avatar of your sexuality it’s gonna be a bad fit.

I think sometimes people just can’t write from a perspective not their own. It doesn’t make them bad role players it just means they have some very big handicaps as a writer.

 

[iWriteAboutNothing]

It really just sounds like you don't like romance rps. Just joking, but I think rae2nerdy hit it right on the head. Most of the people you're going to have a MxM roleplay with are either women (who don't know how a gay man would actually act) or young adults (who romanticize relationships in general). Which means seven times out of ten you'll get someone who's just in it for the purpose of the romance, and nothing else.

 

[Lord Aphrodite]

I don’t think it’s always necessarily a fetishization as people being very bad at writing romance from a different point of view. You see the same issue in women that only play female characters in MxF romantic pairings. Cuz they just don’t feel like they can portray a male being in love with a woman. Or (perhaps a touch more honestly) they want to be able to insert themselves into the romance and it is easier to do that when their point of view character follows their real life preference.

So I think the issue with Male x Male is that they have a hard time finding a point of view when it comes to playing a different gender and sexuality so they basically play their males like females only with the pronouns switched.

And if you are playing your character as a real person rather than just an avatar of your sexuality it’s gonna be a bad fit.

I think sometimes people just can’t write from a perspective not their own. It doesn’t make them bad role players it just means they have some very big handicaps as a writer.

It really just sounds like you don't like romance rps. Just joking, but I think rae2nerdy hit it right on the head. Most of the people you're going to have a MxM roleplay with are either women (who don't know how a gay man would actually act) or young adults (who romanticize relationships in general). Which means seven times out of ten you'll get someone who's just in it for the purpose of the romance, and nothing else.

I like writing romance and deep stories, and it sucks that I can't do that with (essentially) 1/3 of the roleplaying sphere. I'm gonna be more stringent from now on, but I think I'm willing to give it another go.

 

[iWriteAboutNothing]

As far as LGBTQ media goes, it's a relatively new branch of media to enter the public conscious, if you will, and humans tend to like playing with their new toys and shiny gadgets. As LGBT stuff starts to enter the mainstream and find its niche, I think you'll find that the hype around it is going to die down a bit.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I like writing romance and deep stories, and it sucks that I can't do that with (essentially) 1/3 of the roleplaying sphere. I'm gonna be more stringent from now on, but I think I'm willing to give it another go.

A tip from someone who is also very picky about romance.

- search for threads that do multiple types of pairings
- search for people who do not have a preference for which character they write for
- in my case people who are open to platonic relationship cuz I find they also tend to be people who are ok with slow burn romance

 

[Lord Aphrodite]

A tip for someone who is also very picky about romance.

- search for threads that do multiple types of pairings
- search for people who do not have a preference for which character they write for
- in my case people who are open to platonic relationship cuz I find they also tend to be people who are ok with slow burn romance

Thank you for the tips!

 

[rae2nerdy]

Thank you for the tips!

Your welcome. They aren’t fool proof but they do a decent job winnowing out the more extreme people.

 

[Crayons]

I think it's because there are two types (generalising obviously) of MxM roleplayers, that roughly line up with players who enjoy anime-style RP and players who enjoy "realistic" style RP.

The MXM players who want to play BL/shonen ai/yaoi etc.

and

The MxM players who want to play realistic gay/MLM relationships.

And there is a lot of overlap between the two, but generally speaking I think there are much more in the former category, and what you want is the latter category.

Personally I'll play most types of pairings. I think if you have a player you vibe with, you can do anything and make it good.

 

[chuuhi]

Okay tbh I really love MxM a lot, and I know that most of the people who do MxM do fit into the categories you mentioned, but like the previous replies stated it's probably due to the demographics.

Personally I prefer MxM because I'm already used to it, and I'm a hopeless otaku who can't stand the idea of writing about characters that I'm not terribly obsessed with. But I do like a good romance plot though, not just meaningless fluff or erotica. I think these MxM relationships are just as real and hold as much potential for development as any other pairing. But yes, it's hard to find people to write something fulfilling with, so I can't really blame you for avoiding them.
The only reason I can think of for this phenomenon is probably just a simple desire to fulfill thirsty gay fantasies rather than good story development. And it seems to be high in demand.

There are problematic RPers everywhere we don't wanna meet, just that most of them appear in the MxM category. Sorry you had to go through that.

 

[Becker]

Why are you guys always jumping the gun on romance and then getting mad when my character is unable to reciprocate those feelings naturally?

​

 

[Mikotsuhime]

Man I get so so so so uncomfortable when people make the assumption that everyone who rps m/m or LGBT characters is straight. Like y'all know that gay people rp too, right??? Gay people rp too. Gay people like to rp characters who reflect their own sexuality.

The problem you're describing is an inexperience problem, but it's also just... a difference in priority problem. Some people prefer to write fluffy romance, and are also gay. Writing it off as all straight fetishizing women ignores the issue that role playing is an escapist fantasy and, if you face issues like homophobia or transphobia or any other mess of things in your real life, a lot of times you just... want to experience characters being happy and having a cute romance.

Obviously relationships take time to develop and instantaneous romance in role plays can be annoying if you didn't sign up for it, but I get /so/ nervous when people argue about being realistic in rps, especially if the person i'm rping with is /not/ gay. What do you mean by realistic? Do you mean that there's an obvious presence of homophobia? Do you mean that there is the risk of homophobic violence to the characters? Because, especially if my partner is straight, I don't /want/ to role play stuff like that, and I know a lot of other people don't want to role play stuff like that. It can be freeing, if you're using role play to vent your stresses of every day life, but when both parties dont' experience it themselves, it ends up feeling... weird? Gross? Like you cannot imagine a world without homophobia in it, and you cannot fathom the idea of gay people just being happy without issues, and it's... dangerous.

idk this is word vomit lol. I see what you mean about a lot of young straight girls fetishizing gay male relationships, it is a problem, but automatically assuming that anyone wanting a fluffy or happy relationship is straight and female is kinda yuck.

 

[Deredere]

People who seem very interested, but then ghost after learning that I want real development.

Not to defend it, but I wonder if it just isn't exicuted right. If it had a real story, would the romantic plot be that bad?

 

[Crayons]

Man I get so so so so uncomfortable when people make the assumption that everyone who rps m/m or LGBT characters is straight. Like y'all know that gay people rp too, right??? Gay people rp too. Gay people like to rp characters who reflect their own sexuality.

The problem you're describing is an inexperience problem, but it's also just... a difference in priority problem. Some people prefer to write fluffy romance, and are also gay. Writing it off as all straight fetishizing women ignores the issue that role playing is an escapist fantasy and, if you face issues like homophobia or transphobia or any other mess of things in your real life, a lot of times you just... want to experience characters being happy and having a cute romance.

Obviously relationships take time to develop and instantaneous romance in role plays can be annoying if you didn't sign up for it, but I get /so/ nervous when people argue about being realistic in rps, especially if the person i'm rping with is /not/ gay. What do you mean by realistic? Do you mean that there's an obvious presence of homophobia? Do you mean that there is the risk of homophobic violence to the characters? Because, especially if my partner is straight, I don't /want/ to role play stuff like that, and I know a lot of other people don't want to role play stuff like that. It can be freeing, if you're using role play to vent your stresses of every day life, but when both parties dont' experience it themselves, it ends up feeling... weird? Gross? Like you cannot imagine a world without homophobia in it, and you cannot fathom the idea of gay people just being happy without issues, and it's... dangerous.

idk this is word vomit lol. I see what you mean about a lot of young straight girls fetishizing gay male relationships, it is a problem, but automatically assuming that anyone wanting a fluffy or happy relationship is straight and female is kinda yuck.

Yes for reals.

I find it really troubling when every fictional depiction of people who face discrimination RL HAS to depict that discrimination within the fiction itself. There's no reason for it, especially if the story is not about discrimination. Let people have their fantasy worlds where they don't have to put up with -phobia all the time.

The Untamed TV show is very much a fantasy setting with beautiful people, but the way it portrays its extremely subtle (censorship says no) relationship, is that the love of the MCs is never questioned or frowned upon by other characters in the setting as being out of the ordinary or "wrong", whereas the novel it was based on has a first chapter full of homophobia and slurs, which I found pretty off-putting and it changed the whole way I approached the story for the worst. It was just really unnecessary and kinda nasty. Yeah I'm pretty sure censorship has a lot to do with this because the MCs are just "good friends" officially but in this case it actually worked out better imo. (You all can visit the Untamed/MDZS appreciation thread in General Discussion if you want to have this out with me, lol)

For clarity, when I personally talk about realistic MLM relationships, what I mean is ones that have realistic characters, rather than being shonen ai tropes. For example - thinking about them as people rather than who is the seme/uke.

Also it's not wise to assume "straight" young "girls" writing gay male relationships are straight or girls. Sometimes RPing different sexualities or genders is where you understand your own.

 

[Jannah]

While I have done it in the past I don't do MxM often now(unless it's strictly platonic). I don't mind it so much unless it's being played out with the yaoi tropes, or really anything else that feels romanticized or unrealistic. Granted, I can only guess on that since I'm not gay. I'm asexual, and about as asexual as one can come so there's probably a lot I don't understand about attraction, romance, sex, etc.

I think the main issue I have with MxM pairings, and really LGBT+ pairings in general is that I play in a lot of realistic historical settings. Back then being gay was much more taboo, thus the only way those relationships can really fit in is if they're secret forbidden love type scenarios or if the characters face serious consequences for being openly gay. In fantasy settings, though? Yea, any sort of romance is pretty much fair game, but I don't play MxM often for the reasons I already outlined above.

 

[Crayons]

I think the main issue I have with MxM pairings, and really LGBT+ pairings in general is that I play in a lot of realistic historical settings. Back then being gay was much more taboo, thus the only way those relationships can really fit in is if they're secret forbidden love type scenarios or if the characters face serious consequences for being openly gay. In fantasy settings, though? Yea, any sort of romance is pretty much fair game, but I don't play MxM often for the reasons I already outlined above.

Depends which historical settings. Outside of Christianity, gay relationships were pretty normal in a lot of places/times.
Alexander the Great and the Greeks in general - so much gay.
Pre-late 19th century Japan - full of gay.

It's not a good idea to judge all of history through the lens of Victorian Christian morality.

Interwar Europe (1920s-early 1930s) was gay as you like as well and extremely permissive. It was the rise of fascism in the thirties that shut that burst of freedom down.

People should also bear in mind that the history that people are taught is one that deliberately does not teach you about LGBT+ issues in various periods. One - because it's generally been considered a minority interest, and two - because these histories were written at a time when LGBT+ issues were considered taboo. That does not mean LGBT+ things were taboo all through history, it just means they were at the time of writing.

 

[Delinquent]

Depends which historical settings. Outside of Christianity, gay relationships were pretty normal in a lot of places/times.

Heck, even some periods of Christianity were suprisingly tolerant.

For example, France in the late 1600. And there's evidence to suggest that the Christian church didn't really care all that much about sexuality until the 11th century.

 

[Crayons]

Heck, even some periods of Christianity were suprisingly tolerant.

For example, France in the late 1600. And there's evidence to suggest that the Christian church didn't really care all that much about sexuality until the 11th century.

Yep, that's another example!