Bone2pick
Minority of One
Obnoxious is a subjective experience, not what they're capable of or what they can do... You understand the difference, no?
Other Mary Sues
- Thread starter Emmi
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Bone2pick
Minority of One
They're never one of protagonists, unlike a GMPC. The story isn't centered on them - they won't conquer the central conflict - they just pop in for whatever plot reason the GM can think of an excuse to feature their pet.
King Crimson
Nyo-ho~
Do you understand the difference between "subjective" and "objective"?
Because from your posts, you don't seem to.
And according to you, no matter what the pet NPC does, it will always be obnoxious, so according to you, the only thing they can do is be obnoxious and the only thing they're capable of is being obnoxious.
ZeiruliousMakavar
The Archon of Madness
Exactly why I stopped replying to him, as it's clear all he wants to do is argue.
rae2nerdy
left site
So the GM is making a character they can play to show up the other characters? This is what you are talking about?
I would just call that a Mary Sue to be honest. I wouldn't call them an NPC.
They aren't serving any function to the plot they are just a GM avatar in exactly the same way a Mary Sue is an avatar for their player.
Bone2pick
Minority of One
Please set me straight then. I'm using subjective experience as my point of view.
Bone2pick
Minority of One
But they clearly are an NPC.
ZeiruliousMakavar
The Archon of Madness
This will be my last reply to you, so don't expect a response.
Subjective = Personal Opinions. Objective = Just the FACTS
You clearly think that just because of your subjective thoughts, that this must be objective truth. This, obviously isn't true, as I can say in my opinion the sky looks green during the day and the grass looks blue. Is this true? No, not necessarily, as there's any multiple reasons why I would say that, beyond just me being a douche. There's a reason why it's "subjective opinion" and "Objective facts." Facts don't care about your opinion.
Bone2pick
Minority of One
You couldn't be more wrong, I don't think that. It's a shame you're this confused at this point in the discussion.
rae2nerdy
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I think you are operating under the assumption that a Mary Sue must be a playable character.
To me a Mary Sue is any character that disrupts the flow of the narrative and is clearly only created so that the player can show case how awesome their avatar is.
It wouldn't matter if they are a main character or a side character. They're still a Mary Sue.
Now in my mind a NPC is a character that is non-playable but exists to fulfill a plot purpose.
So we'll use an example :
A school roleplay where the playable characters are the most popular and gifted students at the school. They are asked represent their school in some inter-school competition.
An example of an NPC would be just be the stock characters that represent the others schools and that the Playable Characters are competing against.
A GM Mary Sue would be a group of characters that are even MORE popular and gifted than the Playable Characters and exist for the sole reason to rub that in the other players noses.
Like if the only reason the character exists is to tear down the playable characters and so the GM can prove how amazing they think they are than they're Mary Sues.
It doesn't matter if they aren't playable characters. If they are only serving to enhance the GM's own ego than they're Mary Sues.
King Crimson
Nyo-ho~
The problem is that you're using your subjective experience and treating it like objective fact, saying things like "they're ALWAYS obnoxious."
A pet NPC could be annoying.
Keyword: Could.
They could be annoying to the party.
They could be helpful to the party.
They could garner absolutely no reaction whatsoever from the party.
But just because they're a "pet NPC" doesn't mean that they will upstage the party, or be annoying or give your character the succ.
You're jumping to conclusions about the NPC, the GM and even about other people in this thread.
Bone2pick
Minority of One
A standard NPC could be/do any of those things, so what's your difference between a typical NPC and pet NPC? Surely they can't mean the same thing.
King Crimson
Nyo-ho~
A pet NPC is usually reoccurring, and the GM has a clear attachment to that character.
Emmi
Jumin's Bae
Guys... just stop arguing over petty matters. It makes you all low and obnoxious.
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Bone2pick
Minority of One
Assuming that group only shows up occasionally I'd likely (I would need more details) list them as pet NPCs. Your school RP isn't the best example because many of those are plotless - lack a central story arc. I only use the term Mary Sue in an RP context to describe player characters or GMPCs. Honestly, I think it's best to have the distinction, but I'm open to hearing an opposing argument against it.
ZeiruliousMakavar
The Archon of Madness
I whole heartedly agree with this, which is why I myself have stated already that I'm going to stop replying to them. After much thought, I have reported Bone2Pick for obvious inflaming posts on an already touchy subject.
Bone2pick
Minority of One
Lots of NPCs are recurring during the course of an RP, so that's not enough of a distinction. But what do you mean by "clear attachment to the character." There's a lot of room in those words.
King Crimson
Nyo-ho~
A discussion without any arguing is just an echo chamber.
That being said, this argument is basically over, I can't possibly break this topic down to be any simpler, and the person I'm arguing with seems determined to only see things from his own perspective.
To contribute, have the mother of all Mary Sues;
The tale of a man named Marty.
I Rolled A Zero: The SUE System: the Prologue Begins
Bone2pick
Minority of One
Consider the topic dropped on my end then.
rae2nerdy
left site
I just meant that to me the definition your using just sounds like a Mary Sue as I would define it. Mostly because I don't really do roleplays that do NPCs and the way you are distinguishing this from a regular NPC just makes it seem like a plain old Mary Sue.
Perhaps as you are more familiar with NPCs the distinction is more clear in your mind. I don't have the frame of reference to really say one way or another.
But semantics aside from what i understand of your definition .i.e. Character Created By GM to make GM look Good and Players look Bad.
They definately seem like a Sue variant and also extremely annoying to put up with.
Revna Eris
Overachiever
It sounds more like metagaming than a Mary Sue in my personal opinion. Also, children of Hades aren't exactly known to have a good life, and since it's a semi-fantasy setting (in my own opinion since I've read EVERY BOOK) red eyes and scars that bleed at random times are possible. I understand the frustration of her character trust me, it's happened to me before. The only thing I can agree with you on is her power. In the books as far as I'm concerned demi-gods with powers have powers that correspond to the Godly heritage they have, so her power doesn't make sense.
Have you tried to talk to her about these problems instead of ranting about it? Even in roleplaying communication is involved not just in stories and characters, but how the other person plays their characters. That being said I'm not at all saying you should diss them and tell them that they have to change immediately but try to work through it as much as possible. If she isn't willing to change you have two options, stop roleplaying with her, or endure it.
As for running into Mary Sues? Yes. Plenty a time. They all had perfect lives and perfect personalities and nothing bad ever happened and they HAD to be the hero. A Mary Sue and a character that metagames are two different things here. Keep that in mind if you talk to your friend because they may take it the wrong way.
Sorry for the ramble.
Have you tried to talk to her about these problems instead of ranting about it? Even in roleplaying communication is involved not just in stories and characters, but how the other person plays their characters. That being said I'm not at all saying you should diss them and tell them that they have to change immediately but try to work through it as much as possible. If she isn't willing to change you have two options, stop roleplaying with her, or endure it.
As for running into Mary Sues? Yes. Plenty a time. They all had perfect lives and perfect personalities and nothing bad ever happened and they HAD to be the hero. A Mary Sue and a character that metagames are two different things here. Keep that in mind if you talk to your friend because they may take it the wrong way.
Sorry for the ramble.
Umbrie
Adorable Little Nymph
a Mary Sue is a character designed to fulfill a desire or a wish of the player or storyteller playing them and is often the square peg in a round hole. the Tabletop RPG Term is Special Snowflake. they are "Look at me! i'm Speshul! i'm a half angel half demon half catgirl half elf vampire who happens to be magical girl, an idol and a princess with all of your powers combined and all the fans." in an RP about human high school students when the other players are a Geek, a Jock and a Gamer.
Emmi
Jumin's Bae
I see where you’re coming from, however, her backstory just seems too unrealistic, even for a Hades child. Scars that bleed at random times are not possible, since her character had received the scars when she was like three. Scars heal. Her character’s scars did not, which is totally unrealistic. Red eyes? Even for a Hades kid, that isn’t realistic. Heck, even for the Percy Jackson fandom, that isn’t realistic. I have talked about this to her, but she decided to be a little bitch about it, and lash out at my characters, claiming that they’re “underpowered”. Oh, I’m sooooo sorry that my character has realistic roots. Her character just had to be the hero, and she even acts like she’s the fucking protagonist every single fucking time I role play with her. Trust me. Instead of meta gaming, it’ll seem like a Mary Sue if you actually role play with her.
Once again, I have told her about her problems, but she refused to believe it.
Emmi
Jumin's Bae
Yep! And to add on, Mary/Gary she’s are characters who are too overpowered, and simply boring because they’re too perfect. Those who play these characters tend to one up other characters and make it so that their character is the absolute protagonist, and make sure that the whole universe revolves around them.
I get pissed at “stereotypical” Mary/Gary sues. These stereotypes are mostly “half blah blah blah blah” and that they do not have weaknesses and that they’re colorful. This may be true, but extremely rare. You can have a Mary Sue that’s just simply perfect, but with weaknesses that arent strong enough, resulting in the painful situation that it cannot be used against them. Mary Sues or Gary sues don’t always have to be colorful. They’re just seemingly perfect characters. They could be author insertment or wish fulfillment.
Revna Eris
Overachiever
I see, well I don't know the extent of the situation like you do. The best advice I can give is enduring it or stop roleplaying with her, and if she says she'll stop being your friend... Well. She isn't worth it.
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