How do you feel about Novella roleplay?

[Jet]

Well, I feel like there's a simple answer to your first question. It's just about enjoyment. I personally won't enjoy sending 700-1k words to someone on average for my posts, only to receive barely 200 in return. I feel like my time is wasted, and I want someone who writes in a similar fashion to me so I may also have fun with the RP. I love reading responses that are long, and I love giving them in return. I don't hate people who do shorter responses, nor do I think of them as less or a writer, but I personally won't enjoy the RP if I'm not on the same wavelength of my partner. I'm sure many people here can agree they just want someone they can click with, so both people can happily enjoy whatever they're RPing. One person unhappy in the story means it's not a good story, and will likely lead to someone leaving the RP.

No one said you can't hang around people who tend to write more and who are more detailed than you, but this simply wraps around to my previous post. People tend to degrade those who write more for their posts as pretentious and just writing 'filler.' If someone is truly having fun with their RP and their partner, then it isn't filler to them. Sometimes people like to find joy in simple things, like their character making a cup of tea. It can be calming to write in detail why they love the smell of bergamot, or how they have such a sweet tooth they crave three scoops of sugar, all while stemming the tea slowly and watching the color bleed into the water.

It's a bit insulting to imply people who write more haven't discovered those four things you've listed. I'm positive they're well aware of them, and they're certainly woven into their RP at which their partner deems acceptable, and so-forth in return. Some people don't like quicker paced RPs, and enjoy 'smelling the roses.' They like writing about simple tasks, for whatever reason it may be. They can be efficient in their post, while also indulging in their creativity with a fellow writer.

Point is, you shouldn't judge others and call out their writing because it doesn't meet your personal ideal of what RPing should be, and how people should find their partners/groups. Perhaps these detailed writers you speak of don't wish to hang around you because you imply their writing is just 'too' much, even if you aren't directly saying it. People want to write with people who are similar to them, that's not a hard concept.

It is preference, and implying that others who writer differently than you are just 'filler writers' is just a bit rude in my taste.

1. A 200 word reply is generally shit, unless it's off of a closed end question or during quick fire dialogue in which case it's acceptable. If you're writing 1k words in quick dialogue then idk what to tell you chief, and if you ask a closed end question then what do you expect. Outside of those two scenario though, 200 words is skimp. You're doing it too, implying negatives.

2. The point about filler is that in some scenes, if you have to write six paragraphs (as is the standard "Novella" minimum from what I saw on this thread) then you'll have to write filler some times, no matter who you are. Case in point, closed end questions ("Which way did Jack go") and rapid dialogue/action.

3. Sure you can go off with those details but you can't have them in every post without distracting the focus of some scenes, hence my emphasis on context. Winding descriptions, exposition and personality displays are great, sometimes. Other times they are a complete distraction, however in this environment you have accepted a writing minimum, so even if the best reply is a highly focused one you will have to water that down with exposition, endless internal monologue (that's somehow fit in a window of a few seconds), flashbacks and the like, and all of that will cheapen the impact of the core movement you want to convey.

4. I'm not critical of any writing style, all are valid and all work when done right. The point is, you shouldn't tell a considerable amount of writers to kick rocks because they don't fill pages like you do. Hemingway wouldn't last twenty seconds in one of these RPs despite being one of the GOATs. You should use your judgment to decide what is acceptable and what isn't, not a one size fits all, zero tolerance policy, doubly so because this is writing.

5. The vast majority of "Highly detailed writers" could have any given post edited by me and it would retain 95% of the information with better pacing and sound with only 50% of the size. So yes, I will call them filler writers. Some are not though, some are fantastic writers, albeit with a different style than me. At the same time most "concise writers" are lazy 100-200 word people that a good detailed writer could help in the same way I could help a lot of "detailed writers". The issue that I have is that most of the shitty "detailed writers" have their heads two meters up their own ass, while the shitty concise posters are usually self aware of their own limitations. That's another reason the arbitrary minimums bother me, a god tier clock maker gets the boot but some trash can that fills the page with redundant, boarderline insulting (to the reader) observations gets to stay. Also, at least a shitty short poster doesn't waste my time and moves the plot, with the shitty detailed ones I need to sit there with bleeding eyes and usually nothing happens.

Edit

Just use context, there's a supercomputer in your head for this.

 

[FoolsErin]

Annnnd we’re going to go in circles like this for god knows how long. Geez, calm down a little you two. You both have good points. Yes Jet, sometimes a well-written shorter post is better than a long winded one that is filled with fluff, and yes Brook, partners with similar writing styles would most likely click better together.

Ok? Ok. Now chill a little, both of you. You probably didn’t consider all that to be an argument, but it certainly felt like one to me.

 

[Jet]

FoolsErin

Youre way too positive for me. I have my thumb boxing gloves on and my phone is plugged to a charger, I'm ready for battle.

 

[FoolsErin]

Shh! Shush! Positive thoughts now! Chill mode!

 

[calypso]

1. A 200 word reply is generally shit, unless it's off of a closed end question or during quick fire dialogue in which case it's acceptable. If you're writing 1k words in quick dialogue then idk what to tell you chief, and if you ask a closed end question then what do you expect. Outside of those two scenario though, 200 words is skimp. You're doing it too, implying negatives.

2. The point about filler is that in some scenes, if you have to write six paragraphs (as is the standard "Novella" minimum from what I saw on this thread) then you'll have to write filler some times, no matter who you are. Case in point, closed end questions ("Which way did Jack go") and rapid dialogue/action.

3. Sure you can go off with those details but you can't have them in every post without distracting the focus of some scenes, hence my emphasis on context. Winding descriptions, exposition and personality displays are great, sometimes. Other times they are a complete distraction, however in this environment you have accepted a writing minimum, so even if the best reply is a highly focused one you will have to water that down with exposition, endless internal monologue (that's somehow fit in a window of a few seconds), flashbacks and the like, and all of that will cheapen the impact of the core movement you want to convey.

4. I'm not critical of any writing style, all are valid and all work when done right. The point is, you shouldn't tell a considerable amount of writers to kick rocks because they don't fill pages like you do. Hemingway wouldn't last twenty seconds in one of these RPs despite being one of the GOATs. You should use your judgment to decide what is acceptable and what isn't, not a one size fits all, zero tolerance policy, doubly so because this is writing.

5. The vast majority of "Highly detailed writers" could have any given post edited by me and it would retain 95% of the information with better pacing, sound with only 50% of the size. So yes, I will call them filler writers. Some are not though, some are fantastic writers, albeit with a different style than me. At the same time most "concise writers" are lazy 100-200 word people that a good detailed writer could help in the same way I could help a lot of "detailed writers". The issue that I have is that most of the shitty "detailed writers" have their heads two meters up their own ass, while the shitty concise posters are usually self aware of their own limitations. That's another reason the arbitrary minimums bother me, a god tier clock maker gets the boot but some trash can that fills the page with redundant, boarderline insulting (to the reader) observations gets to stay. Also, at least a shitty short poster doesn't waste my time and moves the plot, with the shitty detailed ones I need to sit there with bleeding eyes and usually nothing happens.

One, I am not looking for a fight, so please do not attempt to start one or imply there is one.

No one is shitty for writing 200 words, if that's how they enjoy RP. Don't make others feel bad for writing what they're comfortable with, it's insanely rude to do. You can't claim that you aren't critical of any writing style, but in the previous point say 200 words is a shit response. It can be the perfect response if it is enjoyed by both parties.

It is their own way of RPing. I am not implying it is a negative thing to write less, I am saying directly that I won't personally be enjoying shorter replies and that's okay to say! It's okay to just prefer longer or shorter responses. What isn't okay is being so critical of others, shorter responses or longer responses. It's just insanely rude, so I ask again to please refrain from saying some people have 'their heads up their ass,' or calling others trash cans. It's inappropriate, plain and simple.

I don't care to have a further discussion about this sort of thing if you're just going to insults other in your replies while also implying you are better and can improve their writing. Just let others enjoy what they're writing, and don't make them feel bad about it. It's immature.

 

[calypso]

You make a fair point, though I don’t think we’d click in a roleplay together well. (Which sucks, you seem like you’d write some really nice responses to read.) Honestly I’d love to write longer posts with more meat to them, but it’s actually really hard for me. It’s not really a writers block thing, more like a “Hey, I tend to look at one particular funny looking plant in an office rather than taking in all the little things the person I’m talking to is doing with their face and also the air freshener.” I can’t write details I can’t recognize, which makes a weird limit for me where I’d love to add more details, but I run out of details to add.

Or maybe that’s just a weird excuse to not try, I dunno.

It's okay if you can't write longer responses. I know a lot of people like them, but there are also people who don't need huge responses. Don't feel pressured to write longer posts if it's hard for you.

 

[FoolsErin]

It's okay if you can't write longer responses. I know a lot of people like them, but there are also people who don't need huge responses. Don't feel pressured to write longer posts if it's hard for you.

I try to be satisfied with what I can do (usually half a paragraph to two full paragraphs), but it’s a little hard when I see this roleplay that looks super cool, but they want two paragraphs per post, and I end up backing down because I know I can’t write two paragraphs per every post. Sure, I CAN write two paragraphs, just not all the time.

 

[Jet]

calypso

I don't have the kiddy gloves on, I don't play pretend. There's levels to this. Some writers are good, some suck, and yes, some are complete trash cans... At least I didn't say dog ****. About people having their heads up their asses... Well it's a fact, there's a lot of terrible detailed writers that think their Websters thesaurus and their dedication to the millisecond makes them a top tier writer. I used to join a lot of "Detailed RPs" back when that was a tag. I saw it first hand. In the same way a lot of short posters are just lazy. I'm harsh, I guess, but at the end of the day I don't play pretend to spare feelings.

A 200 word reply is usually lazy, if it's not in quick fire dialogue, action or reply to closed question that is. I also said Skimp, which is a more accurate word for it.

For sure I can improve the writing of some people if given the chance to edit down their work, just like a good detailed writer could make a bad barebones post better if given the chance to add descriptives. I'm self confident in my ability to write well. Sorry if that comes off as arrogant.

All good though, I think the discussion went well enough, have a good one ✌

 

[FoolsErin]

calypso

I don't have the kiddy gloves on, I don't play pretend. There's levels to this. Some writers are good, some suck, and yes, some are complete trash cans... At least I didn't say dog ****. About people having their heads up their asses... Well it's a fact, there's a lot of terrible detailed writers that think their Websters thesaurus and their dedication to the millisecond makes them a top tier writer. I used to join a lot of "Detailed RPs" back when that was a tag. I saw it first hand. In the same way a lot of short posters are just lazy. I'm harsh, I guess, but at the end of the day I don't play pretend to spare feelings.

A 200 word reply is usually lazy, if it's not in quick fire dialogue, action or reply to closed question that is. I also said Skimp, which is a more accurate word for it.

For sure I can improve the writing of some people if given the chance to edit down their work, just like a good detailed writer could make a bad barebones post better if given the chance to add descriptives. I'm self confident in my ability to write well. Sorry if that comes off as arrogant.

All good though, I think the discussion went well enough, have a good one ✌

Noooo! Positive vibes!

Oh wait, you’ve simmered down now, never mind.

 

[calypso]

I try to be satisfied with what I can do (usually half a paragraph to two full paragraphs), but it’s a little hard when I see this roleplay that looks super cool, but they want two paragraphs per post, and I end up backing down because I know I can’t write two paragraphs per every post. Sure, I CAN write two paragraphs, just not all the time.

I totally understand. You should only post if you're satisfied with what you wrote. It can be hard to find RPs when you don't want to always push yourself to the max if you feel it isn't your best performance. Sometimes I can writer nearly 2k words, and sometimes I just wanna back down and relax a bit.

However, I can recommend trying discord servers alongside RPN! I know many don't have long post requirements, instead just asking for basic grammatical skills. I wouldn't dare say quit RPN, but there's no harm in having multiple platforms.

 

[calypso]

Jet All I will say, is there a firm difference between being blunt about something, and just being rude about it. I'm sure everyone is confident in their own ability to approve the works of others. But in the end,

It is all a preference for how people want to RP, and people should respect that. Harsh or not.

 

[FoolsErin]

I totally understand. You should only post if you're satisfied with what you wrote. It can be hard to find RPs when you don't want to always push yourself to the max if you feel it isn't your best performance. Sometimes I can writer nearly 2k words, and sometimes I just wanna back down and relax a bit.

However, I can recommend trying discord servers alongside RPN! I know many don't have long post requirements, instead just asking for basic grammatical skills. I wouldn't dare say quit RPN, but there's no harm in having multiple platforms.

I’ve tried Discord servers before, actually. It’s...not quite my thing. It’s a lot harder to fix up text since the platform clearly was more meant for stuff the size of a text message.

Anyways, I’m also not quite sure how much qualifies as a “paragraph” here. To me it’s five sentences because that’s what teachers and google searches have told me. But by that logic, this fandom post would be definitely more than a few paragraphs long.

Edit: I have now captured pictures because links have betrayed me.



(Sorry about the theme/font color combo, I can read it just fine, some of you probably can’t.)

Or maybe not. I didn’t actually count the sentences in that post.

Is there some agreed upon number of sentences that make a paragraph that I missed on orientation day or something?

 

[calypso]

I’ve tried Discord servers before, actually. It’s...not quite my thing. It’s a lot harder to fix up text since the platform clearly was more meant for stuff the size of a text message.

Anyways, I’m also not quite sure how much qualifies as a “paragraph” here. To me it’s five sentences because that’s what teachers and google searches have told me. But by that logic, this fandom post would be definitely more than a few paragraphs long.

Fandom - Beyond Infinite Crisis (Multifandom RP) (We're Open!) (Ignore Post Count)

An index of posts.

www.rpnation.com

Or maybe not. I didn’t actually count the sentences in that post.

Is there some agreed upon number of sentences that make a paragraph that I missed on orientation day or something?

I think in general, 'meaty' paragraphs are considered five or more good sized sentences, depending on the length of each one. (One being very short, but the next one being a pretty long sentence.) A lot of people tend to eyeball it too at this point, just outta habit. I don't normally count how many sentences are in a paragraph, but I've gotten to the point where I can look at how much I've written, and deduce how many words or so is in that one paragraph. I'd say around three paragraphs normally evens out to 400-500 words? If each paragraph is hitting that five sentence area.

 

[FoolsErin]

I think in general, 'meaty' paragraphs are considered five or more good sized sentences, depending on the length of each one. (One being very short, but the next one being a pretty long sentence.) A lot of people tend to eyeball it too at this point, just outta habit. I don't normally count how many sentences are in a paragraph, but I've gotten to the point where I can look at how much I've written, and deduce how many words or so is in that one paragraph. I'd say around three paragraphs normally evens out to 400-500 words? If each paragraph is hitting that five sentence area.

Yea okay, so pretty much what I was aiming before.

Wait, so how many paragraphs is the post I included the pictures of then? I assumed it was roughly two because....I have no self confidence?

 

[calypso]

Yea okay, so pretty much what I was aiming before.

Wait, so how many paragraphs is the post I included the pictures of then? I assumed it was roughly two because....I have no self confidence?

I would say a good three or four! I believe the middle paragraph could be broken up in the middle a bit, but if works as a longer one that's fine too.

 

[FoolsErin]

I would say a good three or four! I believe the middle paragraph could be broken up in the middle a bit, but if works as a longer one that's fine too.

Okay. I may have been selling myself short. Or maybe not, this is long by my standards.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Re : post length requirements

Think of it like a scheduling requirement. If someone says they can only post once a week and someone who prefers posts once a day tries to roleplay with them it won’t work.

Because they have two very different schedules which won’t line up. It doesn’t mean either schedule is good or bad, it’s just what each person can manage.

No one is saying that post length requirements are good or bad. They’re just saying they want to Roleplay people who are on the same wavelength.

I wouldn’t want to roleplay with someone who wants more posts than I can manage. Not because I think their elitist or stuck up or whatever. But because I want to roleplay with someone who is on my wavelength.

Nor do I think having standards is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Because the people you lose out are people you wouldn’t want to roleplay with anyway.

Like one of my requirements is no instant romance. Sure that means I can’t roleplay with all kinds of romance roleplayers. But I would turn them down anyway because we aren’t interested in the same things.

So putting it in the search thread just saves both me and them time.

 

[calypso]

View attachment 613375

Okay. I may have been selling myself short. Or maybe not, this is long by my standards.

Yeah, I'd say that's more on four paragraphs! Just write what you feel comfortable with for each post, and you'll definitely find your range. (Though sometimes you can just exit your range. I wrote a 500 word post for the opener of an RP, while the rest of the posts are longer.)

 

[rae2nerdy]

Yeah openers are always tricky so I never count them in my “average” post range. As they tend to depend more on what kind of set up is needed for a roleplay scene and less on how much of a response you can get from your partner.

Also why I refuse to use them for writing samples. Usually I just link a recent roleplay for that as it gives a more authentic look at how I respond to posts.

 

[FoolsErin]

Oh, well that lengthy four paragrapher actually technically was an opener. An introductory post for the character, if I will.

Edit: My openers tend to be longer than the bread and butter post.

 

[Tove]

If you don't like longer posts don't attempt to try to write them, go out out of your comfort zone and settle on looking for someone who enjoys doing them just because you like some of their ideas.
If you don't like shorter posts, don't attempt to try to write them, hold back and limit how you normally write to settle on looking for someone who enjoys them because you like some of their ideas. Write what you are comfortable with end of story.

 

[Jet]

T Tove

Agree completely. You should never compromise your own writing style to suit what someone else wants.

What makes this a debate for me is this.

Some people on this website take an elitist stance against concise writing even if the concise writing is far superior to their own work. The concise writing doesn't need to be lazy or lacking in detail, skill or content. If it's shorter than a certain pre-defined length then it's unacceptable even if it's professional grade and accomplishes everything a post needs to accomplish.

Running a RP like this is creatively draconic. People in this thread saying that an unfocused post of 1500 words and 4/10 quality is welcomed but a hyper focused post of 900 words and 9/10 quality is not. That's illogical. People advocating for the ignorance of context. That you have to dredge content when there may be a void. A spitfire dialogue exchange for example, where everyone needs to write six paragraph posts, sounds inspiring to read. It's as if pacing, impact, attention spans, respecting the reader and context don't exist.

Theres no place for zero tolerance rules in Small RP circles. Those exist when dealing with millions of people. On a small scale we should be able to use our brains and decide if someone is doing enough in a post, and not off of word count but of content and quality.

Edit

This whole issue comes from a poor understanding of concise writing, as if it must be short to fit the definition. That's an incorrect assessment. A concise piece can be 100 words or 10,000, it's about writing what content is there without bloating the work. People see "concise" and "short" and think of shitty one liners and low effort 134 word posts with no adjectives. That's so wrong, utilitarian writing is contextual writing. If there's not enough content for six paragraphs you shouldn't have to bullshit and write six paragraphs.

 

[Crayons]

I don't think I've ever done truly "novella" level RP posting. I've done novella length (1500-2000 word) posts, usually for scene-setting or if my character is doing something that doesn't involve the others. I think I would find it difficult to do a 1000 word+ post every time. I got used to writing 500-800 word posts as standard, but after joining an RP where the RP posts were generally shorter, 200-600 words, but more quickfire (for me that means 3 or 4 posts a week rather than 1, lol) I found that actually I enjoyed that more.

The most important thing, I think, is finding partners whose RP style matches yours, whether you like it simple and direct, or filled with purple prose, or somewhere in between.

 

[Idea]

If you're writing high level collab projects you need to trust the other writer(s) to write as they see fit. If what they provide lacks detail then tell them to step it up. Use context and if they aren't meeting expectations then have a side talk about it. Don't use zero tolerance homework guidelines to direct a creative person. We do that in public schools because there needs to be standards when dealing with millions of kids, but in a RP with a small group (at absolute max we are talking about like... 15 people) you can use context.

Thing is, I HAVE tried that. I didn't use to have minimum requirements at all. It was only when I noticed people tended to give me posts that felt extremely bland to me and tended for the bare minimum when there was one, that I started putting some kind of requirement. It wasn't a length requirement back then though, it was a content minimum: In this post I want to see X, Y and Z. As long as those are present in the post, I don't mind the length. However, people often missed them and I realized that keeping track of something like that was extremely unpractical.

Over time, I gradually switched into post length requirements, in full PC lines and lately with an alternative in word count to help people understand. The lengths are hardly arbitrary either: They are based precisely on how much I tend to write. I don't intend to demand more of people than the work I can put in myself. And I'm not going to be zero tolerance either: If it appears a scene is genuinely impossible to get more content for, then a certain amount of deviation is allowed.

And above all, I'm not about to be a tyrant that creates unwritten rules and goes to tell players off for not following rules they never knew were there.

Note: I'm not implying you are either. But if I were to criticize a player to not giving me detail- when I didn't specify how- then that's unfair to them, as there was no way they could know what I wanted out of them. A GM that makes up rules and expects people to retroactively follow those rules, that to me is a tyrant.

As a concise writer this whole thing about requirements bothers me. Arbitrary length requirements decided by "Writer A" might be completely ridiculous for "Writer B" . WB might be a hyper efficient writer who works tirelessly to create perfectly structured, zero waste sentences (which is what I do, most of my editing is reduction and re-structuring for better pace and minimum word count while retaining the information originally written). WA on the other hand might be more of a prose artist, opting for grand descriptions of even the smallest detail, less of a craftsman and more of an artist who isn't looking for waste, not looking to delete whole lines but to add more. Both schools can be done well without question, but there's no reason to punish WB for shorter length if the content is there just because the amount of lines on the page is exceeded by WA.

See, the thing is this is not a punishment of writer B. A criteria is not a punishment, nor as some would claim 'descriminating against people'. Nomatter how skilled, honest and hardworking, a blind man will not be allowed to pilot a plain. Nomatter how good of a group the members may seem, you are probably not joining a group roleplay of a fandom you don't like or never heard about, or for an idea you don't like in general. It's the same as writing requirements- Writer A wants to make an RP that has certain requirements, and writer B has every bit of freedom to say "I think this is for me" or "I think this is not for me". Conversely, if the requirements are too much, Writer A risks not getting anyone to roleplay with them, and has to change if they want to get roleplay. Roleplay searches are ultimately a meeting of interests first, and the compromise comes later, and uses precisely that established common ground.

That said, a player that agrees to a rule and then breaks it naturally deserves punishment, much like anyone who breaks a rule on anything deserves punishment, if they first agreed to that rule. As mentioned, writer B has every bit of freedom not to join a roleplay that has length requirements. If the RP doesn't suit their style of roleplay, which tend to come with their own sort of mentality, then they simply ought not to join. Yes, both styles can be done well- but they rarely mesh well, if ever.

Why do you need to have identical / very similar styles to someone that you're RPing with? No offense, but to me that makes no sense.

calypso already went into this with great detail but I want to add this: writing style isn't a mere conscious choice, there's a mentality, and values, involved. The level of "detail", often associated with length, is a spectrum created by which of those values one has and to what extent. For that reason, a shorter post will often miss things that a more detailed player values in a post, those posts will feel like they are missing, and speaking from personal experience, often feel extremely bland. On the other hand, a longer post may appear to a less detailed writer as being bloated, crammed full of unecessary details and wasteful material. Because one writer will value those long descriptions of how the city came to be what it is today. Because one writer cares more about the specific action taking place than the thought process that led to that action being chosen. Because one writer cares about how a character expresses their emotions outwardly, while another writer may value just as much how their mindset is as they do that.

I go into more detail into this matter here, for anyone who is interested in reading more in-depth into what I'm talking about.

Also don't like the implication that I can't hang with self proclaimed "detailed writers". Can I fill a page with a bunch of filler? Yes, I did it for eight years in HS/Uni. The point is that context provides content and sometimes you can easily reach six paragraphs and sometimes reaching six paragraphs is a writing exercise in how to slam buttons on a keyboard and make no noise.

You can hang out with detailed writers, and even roleplay with them. You just have to write those posts they want to see. You can hang out with people looking to write for a fandom roleplay, and participate in that fandom- if you are roleplaying that fandom.

Novella roleplayers don't write a bunch of filler. People who genuinely enjoy writing those longer posts, who would ask for them themselves, and put themselves up to those standards, the people who value things the way a novella player does, those people don't fill their post with filler, or if they do it's a barely noticeable amount. WHich isn't to say there aren't a lot of people writing posts crammed full of filler in roleplays with high writing requirements. Those tend to be people trying to write novella posts with the mindset of a casual roleplayer (casual in the sense of that level of detail): people who focus almost entirely on what is happening in the scene and what is being said, who think that internal dialogue is repetition and stating the obvious. Whose response to needing more content is to add unecessary actions and bloating their dialogue even more, because it just doesn't occur to them to mayeb describe the room they walked into, or give another player insight into how their character is feeling, etc...

Make it clear in an interest check that you expect advanced writing and ask for a sample.

You being able to deliver me the kind of posts I want to read, and you consistently doing so are two entirely separate matters.

Im actually mind blown that people think a paragraph minimum doesn't hurt writing quality lol, especially in action/dialogue.

It can, but it doesn't have to. However, a player who writes and expects longer posts, to mantain quality, will often have to wait longer for the other post to be crafted better. It's not a dilema, it's a trilema, with length, pace and quality as the choices. Any two you choose will typically sacrifice the third, but any given pair can coexist.

And another disturbing thing I'm seeing is the equivocation of length and quality.

Who? In seven years of roleplaying, I've seen maybe, maybe two people who ever said anything remotely close to that. Are you implying we here are suggesting length=quality? No, we aren't. We aknowledge that shorter posts can be just as well written, but what is "well written" is vastly dependent on what you want out of the writing, what the goals are. More often than not, a shorter post just doesn't meet our goals. Maybe they are out there- but I am not going to put up with months of posts I hate, only to maybe occasionally find a post I kind of like in that pile.

Case in point, closed end questions ("Which way did Jack go") and rapid dialogue/action.

If you are in a novella roleplay, and the only material your partner provided you to work with is "which way did Jack go", you have a pretty shitty partner. Not just that, I struggle to even conceive of a situation where that could happen, one would have to take extra effort into making their post lack any content whatsoever just to somehow barey manage to only provide you a close-ended question. To put it simply: that doesn't happen.

Rapid dialogue and action do exist though, and at least from my experience, there are several methods of handling it, usually envolving a bigger description focus on things other than the dialogue or action, using that space to develop the context in which the dialogue and action happen. Using shorter and more cacophonic sentences also helps get the sense of something being quick paced, without having to sacrifice the length. And worst come to worst, and one actually does absolutely need straight simple dialogue, a novella writer can make that dialogue OOC and simply include it in the post after.

3. Sure you can go off with those details but you can't have them in every post without distracting the focus of some scenes, hence my emphasis on context. Winding descriptions, exposition and personality displays are great, sometimes. Other times they are a complete distraction, however in this environment you have accepted a writing minimum, so even if the best reply is a highly focused one you will have to water that down with exposition, endless internal monologue (that's somehow fit in a window of a few seconds), flashbacks and the like, and all of that will cheapen the impact of the core movement you want to convey.

But to a novella roleplayer, certainly to me, lacking the detail is exactly what cheapens it. A better detailed roleplayer will know how to use those things to enhance the scene, not to degrade it.

5. The vast majority of "Highly detailed writers" could have any given post edited by me and it would retain 95% of the information with better pacing and sound with only 50% of the size. So yes, I will call them filler writers. Some are not though, some are fantastic writers, albeit with a different style than me. At the same time most "concise writers" are lazy 100-200 word people that a good detailed writer could help in the same way I could help a lot of "detailed writers". The issue that I have is that most of the shitty "detailed writers" have their heads two meters up their own ass, while the shitty concise posters are usually self aware of their own limitations. That's another reason the arbitrary minimums bother me, a god tier clock maker gets the boot but some trash can that fills the page with redundant, boarderline insulting (to the reader) observations gets to stay. Also, at least a shitty short poster doesn't waste my time and moves the plot, with the shitty detailed ones I need to sit there with bleeding eyes and usually nothing happens.

Some people on this website take an elitist stance against concise writing even if the concise writing is far superior to their own work. The concise writing doesn't need to be lazy or lacking in detail, skill or content. If it's shorter than a certain pre-defined length then it's unacceptable even if it's professional grade and accomplishes everything a post needs to accomplish.

Yes, there are absolutely shitty writers. And you do well to be confident in your work. But you're calling people who like different things "elitist" while at the same time saying you write better than the vast majority of them.

. If it's shorter than a certain pre-defined length then it's unacceptable even if it's professional grade and accomplishes everything a post needs to accomplish.

And this goes back to what I said brought up in yesterday's post- we don't set writing minimums as an end in of itself, because we want that content and otherwise its not delivered to us. The thing here is that you and I have different ideas of what "a post needs to accomplish". A writing limit is often based on the length a novella layer believes to be the required for a quality post to deliver the content they want to see in a post.

Anyways, I’m also not quite sure how much qualifies as a “paragraph” here. To me it’s five sentences because that’s what teachers and google searches have told me. But by that logic, this fandom post would be definitely more than a few paragraphs long.

To be honest, that's something I don't quite get either. Hence why I measure things in full PC lines- which proved to be confusing to a lot of people, so I've started an alternative word count.



Anyway. I might've inadvertedly re-awakened a sleeping giant here, but since there was stuff directly adressing me I saw it fit to respond.

 

[Tove]

T Tove

Agree completely. You should never compromise your own writing style to suit what someone else wants.

What makes this a debate for me is this.

Some people on this website take an elitist stance against concise writing even if the concise writing is far superior to their own work. The concise writing doesn't need to be lazy or lacking in detail, skill or content. If it's shorter than a certain pre-defined length then it's unacceptable even if it's professional grade and accomplishes everything a post needs to accomplish.

Running a RP like this is creatively draconic. People in this thread saying that an unfocused post of 1500 words and 4/10 quality is welcomed but a hyper focused post of 900 words and 9/10 quality is not. That's illogical. People advocating for the ignorance of context. That you have to dredge content when there may be a void. A spitfire dialogue exchange for example, where everyone needs to write six paragraph posts, sounds inspiring to read. It's as if pacing, impact, attention spans, respecting the reader and context don't exist.

Theres no place for zero tolerance rules in Small RP circles. Those exist when dealing with millions of people. On a small scale we should be able to use our brains and decide if someone is doing enough in a post, and not off of word count but of content and quality.

Edit

This whole issue comes from a poor understanding of concise writing, as if it must be short to fit the definition. That's an incorrect assessment. A concise piece can be 100 words or 10,000, it's about writing what content is there without bloating the work. People see "concise" and "short" and think of shitty one liners and low effort 134 word posts with no adjectives. That's so wrong, utilitarian writing is contextual writing. If there's not enough content for six paragraphs you shouldn't have to bullshit and write six paragraphs.

In the end, it doesn't really matter. Each and every person that participates in roleplay is going to write what they want to write and feel how they want to feel about something that is not a kind of job.
I don't and never considered myself having an elitist stance on as you call it concise writing I welcomed writing with anyone that wanted to tell a story with me as I don't look at roleplay as just writing between two people for the hell of putting characters together, anyone can do that. It helps me improve my writing.

There may be people out here capable of getting directly to the point with 100 words describing the actions of their character, thoughts, dialogue, helping move the story along, etc but I've yet to see it in my experience of roleplay, ever, and definitely not anything of a professional grade. I have seen a 150 word post that lacks all of what I mentioned above. I would welcome a 900 word post and a 1500 word post, if both had what I'm looking for.

Bringing this to a close, as someone that writes roleplay posts ranging from 2,000 words to 4,000 words of no fluff, no writing just to describe a character in 1,000 of those words, or trying to make the post pretty, and leave absolutely no room for my partner to be able to reply I am not going to apologize for what I like which is more than a paragraph or a couple of sentences. I don't think that's having an elitist stance at all again I enjoy what I enjoy. If people don't like it, I don't care. Don't write with me, oh well.
You know though, from seeing some of your posts you might be considered having an elitist attitude yourself.