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Fandom Genshin Impact x RedOut -// Festival of Velocity Dev Site

OOC
Here
Ohoho, feeling nutty eh?
So, once the race starts, we'll start accelerating - for the sake of simplicity, let's go with five second intervals, and in each interval, the ships have constant speed. That results in a discontinuous speed graph overall, but we don't care.

Update: I just tried to test acceleration behaviors in-game, but for some reason, I don't have enough room on my graphics card to load the world? We'll have to put this off until I can find a fix, sorry :/
 
Actually, maybe you could do some testing? What are the crafts' top speeds, how much do they accelerate in five seconds? What's the max speed at which you can go through the first u-turn?
 
Got the 1st 3 for tonight, I'll continue tomorrow when I get the chance.

Lunare - Top Speed: 581 MPH - 5 seconds: 516 MPH - Speed through U-Turn: Ranges within 430’s to 450’s

Conq - Top Speed: 585 MPH - 5 Seconds: 540 MPH - Speed Through U-Turn: 460’s

Helix - Top Speed: 576 MPH - 5 Seconds: 521 MPH - Speed Through U-Turn: 410’s to 420’s
 
Idea: Since steering and boost control might not be enough to make the RP mechanically engaging, we could go all in on RPG stats, like attacking (by ramming), defense, bringing back the active and passive abilities from Redout 1, Vision powers, Wipeout-style weapon systems based on magitek, and a separate class of racing where in-universe all of that is legal, which is also gonna be this RP's main attraction! How's it sound? In exchange, we could reduce the complexity of the racing mechanics themselves.

Another thought I just had was an xp system for individual pilots (characters) where the more they took part in races, the more they'd get accustomed to the high G's and be able to take more abuse, but also, would that add anything?

Also, name suggestion: "Redout x Genshin: Festival of Velocity"
 
Gonna be real bro, you just re-fueled the flame that was dying in my mind.

Pilot XP could attribute not only to that, but also being able to recover faster from being rammed should their defence attempt fail.

I might have a few ideas for the magitech weapons as well. One of these being a Pyro based weapon which works like Wipeout’s Rockets and Missiles, which upon a successful hit, injects a mass amount of heat into the target’s engine, damaging the hull and briefly hindering the target’s ability to boost
 
Ooh, the heat missiles sound fun! Though maybe slightly overpowered.

So, let's get to work on the weapons then! I already have some ideas for the first Tevyat-based race, we could have some "vanilla" racers that don't have visions, and the characters that do have visions use them to their advantage, which afterwards sparks a debate and opens the new "Tevyat League" (name pending).

Edit: Actually. What about the occasional combat scene, where pilot XP contributes to - hm, no. IMO pilot XP could form a barrier of entry for new people (and new characters), where they'd have to grind up XP until they can "properly" compete

Edit 2: Dumb idea - wheeled vehicle. No strafing, worse aerodynamics, but also no pitch control necessary, and it has better grip on offroad and icy segments and can drive on barriers
 
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EpsilonGreaterNull said:
Edit 2: Dumb idea - wheeled vehicle. No strafing, worse aerodynamics, but also no pitch control necessary, and it has better grip on offroad and icy segments and can drive on barriers
Click to expand...
Hmm.. I think with this, something else could actually work really well.

I remember there was a cancelled WipeOut prequel that had concept artwork featuring these unique cars that were able to drive up walls and such. They were seen in 2048’s intro movie as well.
1702861959543.jpeg
 
I'm not sure what Tevyat's people would think of any acronym - they'd probably prefer a name with a more poetic language. How about Lethal- err, Chaotic Racing League?

But if that's what we pick, I want the league to live up to its name. :P

As for the wheeled vehicles, there's also Grip: Combat Racing, which has vehicles that can weather being flipped on their heads. Maybe there's inspiration to be found there too?
 
Heh, nice Lethal league reference

Grip’s another strong candidate with a lot ready to be built off of, so yeah, I agree that Grip has great reference material
 
One of their weapons, the Hydra (A multi-Micromissile launcher that makes targets lose grip), could be flavor-texted into a Cryo based weapon that forms a layer of slippery ice on the wheels of the target’s vehicle.

Then there’s the Ramraider, most likely Anemo Based that pushes away nearby vehicles from the one using it
 
Proposal: we divide the tracks into segments, which are less dense on straights and denser in curves. Instead of calculating speeds in km/h, each ship would have a speed of segments/turn, though this would trivialize slowing down in curves.

Proposal 2: Segments of equal length, turn tightness is estimated by hand. Per turn, each ship gains +1 segment per turn up to its top speed of s segments per turn; if it boosts it will gain +1 segment per turn no matter what, and if after that the speed is above the top speed, it will lose -1 segment per turn in speed. Corners can have different tightness values (all in integers), and the way to see if a ship will scrape the wall is [tightness - current speed + handling stat]. If this formula returns something negative, the ship scrapes the wall and will lose as much speed as it’s overshooting. It’ll also lose health - starting at overshooting by 2, you lose 20% of your health for every extra segment/turn that you overshoot, so if you overshoot by 6, you die instantly.
Though this would in turn trivialize fun stuff like running into the wall when you take the first left on Neo Tokyo for the first time :p

We’d need to give ships our own stats, but that’s fine by me. Merging steer, strafe and stability is a sacrifice I’m willing to make if it makes the RP more fun
 
Oh yeah, as for weapons, we could have the characters use their Elemental Bursts (or tech that they have built in, I’m sure Mantis would be down to do that) against each other, how’s that sound? We might have to tweak the Bursts a bit though.

We could also have Mario Kart / Wipeout-style weapon pickups right on the track, on top of that.
 
Last contribution for now, before I come up with weapon concepts:
To keep track of racers, we need a ranking. If there are several racers in the same segment, the one with the highest ranking among them is considered the furthest ahead within that segment. We could focus the weapons around this segment system, i.e.
Mines: you can place 1 to 4 from a stash of 4 in your current segment. The racer behind you can avoid the mines if their handling stat is equal to or greater the number of mines plus minus a constant and some random variance. Hitting a mine loses -1 segment/turn in speed and 10% of your HP.
Fire Area: Heats up crafts in one particular segment. For passing through it, you receive 50% heat times 1/your speed in segments per turn times 1/your defence stat (range indeterminate).

We also need some mechanic for overtaking, right? To leave it up to chance or not whether the ships will come into contact...? Either way, in Redout, it's unlikely that two ships will be matched in speed to such a degree where one can tailgate the other, so we could just require one ship to be faster than the other, and have a choice of whether or not they want to touch the other ship.

As for how we segment the tracks... uh, good question? Maybe we just take a video and timestamp it? For the Tevyat-based tracks, we could draw the segments directly onto the map, since we're already drawing on the map.
I might get around to timestamping a track sometime in the future, but don't count on it
Anyways, uhh, post sometime soon? :pleading:
 
I’m all in for Burst tweaks, as we could definitely get real creative.

Proposal 2 sounds really good, though as for the Overshoot factor, the Ship’s hull stat could probably be a helping part of the formula. Merging Strafe, Steer and Stability into a simple category as Handling I’m also willing to make,

Track segmenting could work both ways, timestamping RO tracks, but with the Teyvat tracks we’d be able to have some creative freedom with timestamping the segments for those as well.

I feel that as a small addition, Mines could probably be amplified by elements, but for specific effect of some characters’ bursts. Same goes for any other weapon that acts as an on-track hazard. Part 2 of this post coming soon
 
So where do we put the rules and resources for the vehicles and weapons, the Guidelines and Guides thread? And what about the "standard" league, do we bother emulating it (besides partially maybe, for the first race, until it quickly goes off the rails)?

And by the way, do you know if Vision users ever take off their Vision, i.e. for putting it into a nightstand or for cleaning or something?

Either way, I'll start timestamping a video of Mt Fuji's Rainbow Forest track tomorrow and come up with more power-ups, maybe we can start having a first test race soon for real this time. With Kitsuno_ too if she wants to!

Looking at the current ship stats, there's Durability, Thrust, Top Speed, Stability, Steer and Strafe.
  • Durability counts as base HP - maybe we can fiddle with that and balance it differently relative to base game to account for weapons, but that's after the first test race.
  • Thrust is how much segments/turn you can at most gain per turn - maybe that could be a non-integer value that only gets rounded down once you move your ship forward.
  • Top Speed seems fine too - if a ship is above top speed, it loses one segment per turn. Potentially, we could throw this stat out the window on any track that's in space, because top speed is mainly a result of air drag, or crank that same stat up in areas with dense air. Getting ridiculous speeds on Origin Black Hole sounds fun to me!
  • Stability, steer, strafe:
    • Stability determines how much speed you conserve when going through corners
    • Steer determines how quickly you can turn (if you can steer harder than what your stability can keep up with, you'll slide to the outside!)
    • Strafe relates to the ships' ability to move laterally. This can help take corners more easily - a common technique when taking a corner is to first steer into the corner but strafe to the outside (which is called counterstrafing), then once you're inside the corner steer and strafe in the same direction, which is the inside. The counterstrafing allows you to start turning sooner, and you spend less time turning in the corner itself, which potentially conserves speed. But it can also be used in other situations, such as when there's a light left turn following a light right turn - in such a situation, you don't even need to steer, you can just strafe to the left and keep going.
  • That said, these are very opaque stats and kinda hard to translate to our segment model. I've proposed a "handling" stat, but we could keep the strafe a separate stat... which I'm not sure what it would accomplish.
  • Another stat we could play around with is an energy cap/recharge rate, and players could draw from the energy pool (the same pool that they boost from) to activate weapons. Though maybe that's too much for an initial field test? I'd see if the segment model is viable in the first place.
I had some idea for a witty final line in this post, but uh... I kinda forgot. Oh well
 
EpsilonGreaterNull said:
So where do we put the rules and resources for the vehicles and weapons, the Guidelines and Guides thread? And what about the "standard" league, do we bother emulating it (besides partially maybe, for the first race, until it quickly goes off the rails)?
Click to expand...
I’m gonna start reworking that page into a simplified rulebook for the racing mechanics, stats, and whatnot. Weapons and vehicles may be in there, but might also have entries in a separate Lore esque page containing information on tracks, teams, etc.

I think as an experiment we could partially emulate the first few races, but it depends on how long it would be before the Teyvat league (name still pending) is formed.

EpsilonGreaterNull said:
And by the way, do you know if Vision users ever take off their Vision, i.e. for putting it into a nightstand or for cleaning or something?
Click to expand...
I think they do, as if not then that would imply that they would even have them on their person while bathing. Might just be mainly attached to their main outfits.

EpsilonGreaterNull said:
Another stat we could play around with is an energy cap/recharge rate, and players could draw from the energy pool (the same pool that they boost from) to activate weapons. Though maybe that's too much for an initial field test? I'd see if the segment model is viable in the first place.
Click to expand...
For this, I think I can make the boost/ overheat system still work, but in an NFS heat style which makes a ‘Boost/heat gauge’ of 3 bars, one for normal boosting, and another set of 3 representing the Overheat gauge.

For each post that a player boosts, it uses those bars, 1 for each post that they boost. If they boost for 2 consecutive posts, and they want to cool down, they can either go 1 post without boosting to regain a bar, or cooldown fully by not boosting for 2 posts.

If they boost for 3 posts back to back, then their boost gauge would be full, which leads to bars of the Overheat gauge to be used if they boost beyond there.

I feel this may be dependent on the Thrust stat though, where higher thrust makes for higher speed gains, but also a faster heat buildup. So let’s say, for someone running an ASERA, they would only have 2 boost bars and overheat bars, but gain much higher speed then a Conqueror, which its low thrust gives it between 4 - 5 boost bars. Again, dependent on Thrust stat.

Other than that, an energy cap for Weapon usage could work in the similar sense, a full energy bar being split into 10 parts, refilling 2 per post without weapon usage. Depending on the Weapon’s purpose and how strong it is, it’ll use different amounts of energy.
 
EpsilonGreaterNull said:
  • That said, these are very opaque stats and kinda hard to translate to our segment model. I've proposed a "handling" stat, but we could keep the strafe a separate stat... which I'm not sure what it would accomplish.
Click to expand...

Strafe as a separate stat could possibly work as some kind of defensive factor for evading certain types of weapons such as mines. I’m not too certain, but it could do since there’s no evasion tactics yet
 


Timestamps mark segment borders:
start - 0.04 - 0.06 - 0.07 - 0.08 turn left with max. 2SPT (segments per turn) 0.10 left max 2SPT 0.11 - 0.13 booster right 0.14 dirt begins, booster left 0.16 - 0.17 right max 8SPT 0.18 metal, booster left and right 0.19 left max 5SPT 0.21 booster right, right max 4SPT 0.23 - 0.25 right max 4SPT, booster left 0.26 - 0.28 left max 4SPT 0.29 right max 4SPT, booster left 0.31 - 0.33 left max 6SPT 0.34 water, right max 8SPT 0.35 metal 0.36 water, booster left and right x2 0.37 - 0.38 - 0.38 - 0.38 - 0.39 - 0.39 - 0.39 metal, booster left and right, corkscrew clockwise (cw) 0.40 - 0.41 booster left and right 0.42 - 0.42 booster left and right, left max 9SPT 0.43 booster right, left max 9SPT 0.45 - 0.45 booster left, booster right 0.47 left max 7SPT 0.49 booster right 0.50 left max 8SPT 0.51 right max 8SPT 0.53 booster left and right 0.54 - 0.55 - 0.55 - 0.56 booster left and right, booster right, right max 10SPT 0.57 right max 10SPT 0.58 booster left 0.59 - 1.00 booster center 1.01 - 1.03 right max 5SPT 1.05 dirt, booster left 1.07 booster right 1.10 metal, left max 6SPT 1.11 left max 7SPT, booster right 1.13 left max 7SPT 1.14 - 1.14 left max 5SPT 1.15 right+left max 4 SPT (really nasty corner in-game) 1.16 - finish

I may have let the density of the segments be a bit inconsistent, feel free to adjust as you wish. The segment from 0.37 to 0.39 is the long straight across the water, and I've timestamped the Torii gates. Maybe we'll add in item spawn locations?

Also, for the first test, I'd suggest leaving out energy usage for the weapons and strafe as an evasion stat, it might just add pointless complexity. We can have a second race afterwards, in which we test that, if you wanna
 
1704577309119.png
Found this beautiful aerial shot of the Mars Memorial track from Redout 2 (credit: Grapes on the Redout 2 Discord)

To do something meaningful, a list of weapons from the Wipeout series that seem worth considering:
-Missile: locks on to another craft in front of you, then chases it down
-Heavy Missile: like Missile, but with more damage / with splash damage
-Rocket: can hit an opponent based on chance and your agility
-Mines: can be placed in one segment. Dodging it takes some agility (even more if you're in a corner), but once last place passes it or if someone runs into it, it disappears
-Booster: adds 2 segments/turn to your speed
-Remote Booster: adds 2 segments/turn to another player's speed, must lock on
-Shield: adds a degree of defense for the 3 next turns
-Bomb: stays in the segment you placed it in, detonates in the next turn and damages every craft that's in that segment in that turn
-Cannon: spread a set amount of damage between multiple enemies. Depending on how curved the track is, may require some agility to hit multiple enemies. You can save some of the damage for the next turn
-Anemo Buffer: reduces the impact of wall grinding by some degree
-Electric Disruption Trap: lays a harder-to-dodge mine on the ground that, when hit, makes you grind across the floor and take damage. Disabled on Origin Black Hole or Neptune for obvious reasons
-Control Jammer (not for Vision users): reverses a craft's control. Acts as a missile, once it hits a craft, it reverses its controls, reducing its agility by some degree. The effect lasts for two turns
-Energy Leech (not for Vision users): drains HP from an opponent's craft. Cannot drain HP to 0, but interrupts recovery
-Invisibility: Your craft becomes untargetable by any weapon. You can still run into untargeted weapons
-Quick Patch: Instantly starts regeneration
-Elemental Burst: only available to Vision bearers. Variable depending on the Vision
-Barrier: blocks part of the track. Requires agility to dodge, even more so if it's in a corner

We can obv implement situational or unusual weaponry during races, having a deity show up and crash the track sounds fun :3

Also, I'm thinking of a system where the track gets divided into a left, middle, and right lane. Could maybe help model weapon behaviour better?

Also also, bad news. Something about my hardware seems to just not want to work, I don't think I'll be able to play Redout 2 at all
 
So, what value ranges do we take the ship stats from? I'd suggest this for the initial test:
- Durability: ranges from 0 to 4
- Thrust: ranges from 1 to 5
- Top Speed: ranges from 5 to 10 (Thrust and Top Speed I'm really uncertain about, but we'll see how it goes I guess)
- Handling: ranges from 0 to 4
- Strafe (for lane changing, esp. in curves): rational number that ranges from 1 to 3
- Engine heat: is always capped at 10, durability determines how quickly heat builds up: If you boost, heat builds up by (5-durability) units per turn; in a hot area it builds up by (2-durability) units per turn (which means that you can cool down in hot areas with high enough durability). If you're at 10 heat and boosting, you'll start losing 2HP per turn. Cooldown is always on the first turn that you stop boosting, and cools you down by 2 units per turn
- Health: is always capped at 10. After not losing any for 2 turns, you'll regain it by 1 unit per turn

Each ship will have their own stats, but here's a framework for now. Will post an example of what a stock ESA could look like soon

Kitsuno_ Kitsuno_ If you're still interested in this RP - I need a test subject, how convoluted do these stats/ideas look to you? Don't worry, we're getting there with the racing system!

EDIT: Maybe we could entirely do away with upgrades - if the story can stand on its own feet, I don't really think we need progression. Unless by some miracle this RP blows up and people become interested in getting progressively stronger ships

I think we're really close to a point where we can actually do "time trials", and see who can complete a track in the least amount of "posts"/time intervals!

EDIT 2: Beetle, lemme know what kinda changes you're making to the "rulebook"! I'm curious, and maybe I could suggest some changes.
 
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they look fine with me!
 
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