TV & Film Fans of The Untamed or MDZS/ Master of Diabolism (etc.)

[Reid]

Right?? I was reading the novel and there was a scene where during the fairy statue arc, Jin Ling says something along the line of basically buddhas and gods are too busy to care about regular people, and I suddenly think, this sounds like something Jiang Cheng, who has lost his sect and his entire family and who has rebuilt everything by his own hands, would say, hmmm.

sect leader Yao is like UGGGHHHH shut up man . I love how efficient Jiang Cheng is tho. He's so ... sect-leadery

Exactly. He really is more like his maternal uncle than his paternal uncle. Speaking of uncles, have you seen that "Jin Ling's uncle" post?
I never realized how everything in the story traced back to someone related to JL doing shenanigans.
here's a link

XD yeah. And I love how WWX was like "this is bullshit. I'm outta here."

 

[Soot]

Exactly. He really is more like his maternal uncle than his paternal uncle. Speaking of uncles, have you seen that "Jin Ling's uncle" post?
I never realized how everything in the story traced back to someone related to JL doing shenanigans.
here's a link

XD yeah. And I love how WWX was like "this is bullshit. I'm outta here."

I'm soft for their uncle-nephew relationship. And I know that post, it's so iconic !!! I laughed so much omg. Everyone is JL's uncle apparently.

XD yeah. And I love how WWX was like "this is bullshit. I'm outta here."

Afterward is the core reveal scene which,,, pain ;-;

 

[Reid]

I'm soft for their uncle-nephew relationship. And I know that post, it's so iconic !!! I laughed so much omg. Everyone is JL's uncle apparently.



Afterward is the core reveal scene which,,, pain ;-;

The comment about how that post cleared OP's confusion made me laugh lol.
I mean, not all of them are by blood. Like WWX isn't his uncle by blood lol. Then there's the whole sworn brothers thing.

Oof yeah I'm watching that scene right now. My heart!!!

 

[Soot]

I mean, not all of them are by blood. Like WWX isn't his uncle by blood lol. Then there's the whole sworn brothers thing.

yeah, true, but still x)

I remember when I was rewatching the scene where the clans in nightless city were gathering to do a burial mound siege/take down Wei Wuxian. and I was watching like. JGS was speaking something, and everyone repeats ... EXCEPT JIANG CHENG. He was just -scrunched face- -looks conflicted- -dumps the liquid and throws the cup-. But he kept his mouth close. and I'm,,

sad

 

[Reid]

yeah, true, but still x)

I remember when I was rewatching the scene where the clans in nightless city were gathering to do a burial mound siege/take down Wei Wuxian. and I was watching like. JGS was speaking something, and everyone repeats ... EXCEPT JIANG CHENG. He was just -scrunched face- -looks conflicted- -dumps the liquid and throws the cup-. But he kept his mouth close. and I'm,,

sad

At that point he really must have been conflicted. WWX once told him that they were going to be like how their fathers were, best friends for life... clan leader and subordinate. But WWX broke that promise. And then he got his sister killed. Then fucked off into oblivion (wwx's death in the book is more brutal than in the show)
Leaving him with his orphaned baby nephew, and having to lead a sect alone. I really feel bad for JC. At that time he must have just been in his late teens, early 20s. Too much on the shoulders of such a young man.
The fucking fan art of a young JC crying and holding onto a toddler JL makes me so sad ;__;

 

[Soot]

At that point he really must have been conflicted. WWX once told him that they were going to be like how their fathers were, best friends for life... clan leader and subordinate. But WWX broke that promise. And then he got his sister killed. Then fucked off into oblivion (wwx's death in the book is more brutal than in the show)
Leaving him with his orphaned baby nephew, and having to lead a sect alone. I really feel bad for JC. At that time he must have just been in his late teens, early 20s. Too much on the shoulders of such a young man.
The fucking fan art of a young JC crying and holding onto a toddler JL makes me so sad ;__;

TT TT I think he was torn apart by corpses backlash or something? Jiang Cheng is also the youngest sibling ... and it's hard to be alone when you're the youngest, when you've always had someone else there for you and protect you (see: JYL, WWX). You're surrounded by people ... who are suddenly gone in the blink of an eye. Twice over!

I have like 349824 fanarts of Jiang Cheng holding Jin Ling in various scenarios lol. It be sad like that.

 

[Reid]

TT TT I think he was torn apart by corpses backlash or something? Jiang Cheng is also the youngest sibling ... and it's hard to be alone when you're the youngest, when you've always had someone else there for you and protect you (see: JYL, WWX). You're surrounded by people ... who are suddenly gone in the blink of an eye. Twice over!

I have like 349824 fanarts of Jiang Cheng holding Jin Ling in various scenarios lol. It be sad like that.

Yes. Although I've read theories that point out that it was deliberate. Basically suicide.
here's a good post that explains that better than I can

Right. Very rough on him..

damn. Popular subject i suppose xD

 

[Onmyoji]

I kinda agree with the suicide theory. That's what I also thought, especially after donghua. I don't remember already what exactly it was, but I think it was the way WWX reacted to a comment about his death.

 

[Soot]

I suppose, then, that CQL did maintain the spirit of that even though the circumstances are different

 

[Onmyoji]

In some interview MXTX said she deliberately left out details for some things so that the readers could decide for themselves what happened.

 

[Reid]

I kinda agree with the suicide theory. That's what I also thought, especially after donghua. I don't remember already what exactly it was, but I think it was the way WWX reacted to a comment about his death.

Right. He lost everything. Everyone was calling for his death. It makes sense that something snapped or that the corpses reacted to his change in demeanor and turned on him. The image of WWX in the middle of a pile of corpses all clawing for a bite of him just can't get out of my head after reading that lol. It's so brutal and gruesome.

In some interview MXTX said she deliberately left out details for some things so that the readers could decide for themselves what happened.

Kinda like the burial mounds stuff. Your brain starts filling in the blanks but in a spooky way.

 

[Onmyoji]

Ironically, it's what happened to JGY as well.
And NHS basically pushed him to the brink by making LXC stab him. So he somewhat chose suicide too by spilling blood on NMJ's coffin .

 

[Reid]

Ironically, it's what happened to JGY as well.
And NHS basically pushed him to the brink by making LXC stab him. So he somewhat chose suicide too by spilling blood on NMJ's coffin .

;__; so much tragic. Very much sad.

 

[Soot]

We can write a whole essay on how JGY's fall from grace parallels with WWX's ;-;

 

[Crayons]

omg so much happening in this thread overnight! Welcome Chimeric enjoy our little corner of extreme nerdery.

We can write a whole essay on how JGY's fall from grace parallels with WWX's ;-;

Literally all this is spoilers:

Spoiler

Yes! I love how the story of JGY and LXC parallels so closely the relationship with WWX and LWJ. LXC's torment over the mounting evidence that JGY has done Bad Shit and WWX and LWJ treading just ever so gently around him because they know and understand exactly what he would be going through. It's basically "this is what would have happened had WWX actually been evil" and damn I love that so much.

JGY is an awesome character! And damn you're right Reid JGY's leadership does bring peace to the cultivation world, even though he did a lot of fucked up stuff to get there. Maybe the ends really did justify the means? (Although I'm not going to forgive killing my Manry Husbando Nie Mustachejie.) Goddamn now I want a fanfic (or roleplay) where everything goes to shit in the cultivation world after JGY's death and the characters have to try to sort it out. Would Jin Ling make a good clan leader? I really don't think so... stuff would be all fucked up. So drama! I want this!! Someone make it happen. I'm already having plot ideas.

Regarding Xue Yang, I don't think he's complex at all. Guy is a typical "something bad happened to me once so that excuses me being an utter prick for the rest of my life" and -hard eyeroll- at that, frankly. He's just a dick. Where are the layers?

 

[Soot]

Regarding Xue Yang, I don't think he's complex at all. Guy is a typical "something bad happened to me once so that excuses me being an utter prick for the rest of my life" and -hard eyeroll- at that, frankly. He's just a dick. Where are the layers?

Xue Yang's complexity, imo, comes from the things he did during Yi City and his response toward XXC's death. Note though that I'm not really well-versed with Yi City stuff, because it's not something I'm too interested in at the moment. I mean, he gets pretty domestic, and then there's his obsession with reviving XXC. It paints a conflicting picture, and it kind of shows me that for all the horrors that he had inflicted on others, his thinking and personality still feel pretty ... simple and almost childish?? He perceives the world completely different than we do. I'm not the best at analyzing Xue Yang tbh, but I thought this post touches on classism in Mdzs through XY and it's neat. You don't have to read it nor do you have to agree, but I would argue that Xue Yang, if not complex in the conventional meaning, at least does represent (to a certain extent) a theme/concept that's prevalent in Mdzs, which is about the separation and immobility of social status.

LXC and LWJ arcs are so tragic like — LWJ lost the person he loved, then gained him back. LXC had the people he loved, then slowly lost all of them. At least with WWX, his "evilness" is public, while JGY is hiding in the dark. Who knows how much LXC really know JGY, in the end?

 

[Reid]

Crayons buahaha exteeme nerdery I'm dead.
But yeah everything you said is true in regards to the Wangxian parallels. And it makes me so sad. Especially since It fucks Xichen up so bad that he ends up going into seclusion because of it.

People can say whatever the hell they want about JGY but it's unmistakable that he knew his way around politics. He kept the Jin clan running like a well oiled machine. Jin Ling doesn't have nearly as much experience and having just found out everything his uncle has done (and probably some part of him grieved the man he thought he knew). I feel like his first years of rule are going to be rocky. The world has lost respect for the Jin. They're the clowns right now. Internally, I'm sure that the higher up members are all rubbing their hands looking for ways to take advantage of Jin Ling in order to gain power. It's fucked.
The only person he can trust now is Jiang Cheng but even then, he can't be seen relying too heavily on him because people might talk.

Also, pretty sure I've seen around the net that nhs is supposed to be next chief cultivator and boy oh boy do I have thoughts about that....


Soot I've actually written something about this on a YouTube comment before, mainly in regards to the XueXiao ship but it can apply to just XY too. Pretty much similar to what you've said. He is simple and childish. A child gets angry at the most dumb things and cries about it. "You took away my toys, I'm going to tell my mom." Or, "I'm going to hit you because you made me cry"
Dude never emotionally matured, he's selfish because he had to be as a child surviving in the streets. I dont even wanna know the fucked up shit he's gone through.
Ah! I found the comment I made (the comment history thing is really helpful xD)
I dont really like XY, because I kind of agree with Crayons but I love mdzs enough that I can talk about most of its characters too much lol.

Anywho:

Xue Yang was never taught what normal, healthy love is. His life was essentially being treated as trash, surviving out in the streets as a young child, getting his hand mutilated on top of that. He's never had a normal life, a stable life. The 3 years he spent with XXC, and A-Qing were as close to normal as he could get. A place to live, not having to fight for survival, doing mundane household chores, etc. Even if it was fucked up that the only reason that this was possible was because of XXC's disability (which was caused by XY). SL discovering this threatened XY's normalcy, he was possessive of this tiny bubble he created with XXC. He loved XXC in a twisted, fucked up way that was more akin to a child holding onto his favorite toy. If you think about it, XY is a pretty childish man.
The way he talks about justifying his massacre of an entire clan especially shows this. He didn't care about the fact that the other members of the YueyangChang clan had nothing to do with his mutilated hand, because it was *his* hand, *his* fingers. Anything that directly harms/threatens him, he lashes out. And I think that's influence from his childhood, where he had to care more about himself than others just to scrape by. And that morphed into lack of empathy for others.

So when XXC found out what happened, XY turns around and threatens *him* because he doesn't want what they have to be ruined, and he'll try to keep that set up of "playing house" even if it means mutilating XXC further to keep him there with him. But XXC does something that XY wasn't expecting, which was killing himself. This was not part of XY's picture. It distressed him so much that he was willing to turn to WWX for help, but XXC doesn't want to come back. He doesn't *want* to be there with XY, because of everything he did, and the lies and tricks, effectively ruining XY's fantasy of "playing house." Which he could not bear.

Anyways, I love love love Wang Haoxuan's interpretation of Xue Yang! He's got the crazy eyes down pat!

 

[Crayons]

Xue Yang's complexity, imo, comes from the things he did during Yi City and his response toward XXC's death. Note though that I'm not really well-versed with Yi City stuff, because it's not something I'm too interested in at the moment. I mean, he gets pretty domestic, and then there's his obsession with reviving XXC. It paints a conflicting picture, and it kind of shows me that for all the horrors that he had inflicted on others, his thinking and personality still feel pretty ... simple and almost childish?? He perceives the world completely different than we do. I'm not the best at analyzing Xue Yang tbh, but I thought this post touches on classism in Mdzs through XY and it's neat. You don't have to read it nor do you have to agree, but I would argue that Xue Yang, if not complex in the conventional meaning, at least does represent (to a certain extent) a theme/concept that's prevalent in Mdzs, which is about the separation and immobility of social status.

LXC and LWJ arcs are so tragic like — LWJ lost the person he loved, then gained him back. LXC had the people he loved, then slowly lost all of them. At least with WWX, his "evilness" is public, while JGY is hiding in the dark. Who knows how much LXC really know JGY, in the end?

Even evil people need someone to love. He needed company. But most people don't do it by tricking the person and having them brutally kill their lover. And he latches on in a childish way to this one person who helps him. I really don't think that adds anything to his complexity. He might as well be called Evil McEvilface for all the lack of facets that he possesses.

I will read the article, although tbf you can justify anything if you analyse it enough. XD

As far as the social status theme goes, I don't think you need Xue Yang to make any more points than you already get with JGY and WWX's stories. This is why I think the Yi City arc is totally redundant. It adds nothing that you don't get elsewhere, except maybe the juniors coming to trust WWX. Supposedly it came from a different story the author wrote and she incorporated it into this one and it shows. It's not a bad story in itself, it just doesn't fit with teh rest of the story or add anything to it.

 

[Crayons]

People can say whatever the hell they want about JGY but it's unmistakable that he knew his way around politics. He kept the Jin clan running like a well oiled machine. Jin Ling doesn't have nearly as much experience and having just found out everything his uncle has done (and probably some part of him grieved the man he thought he knew). I feel like his first years of rule are going to be rocky. The world has lost respect for the Jin. They're the clowns right now. Internally, I'm sure that the higher up members are all rubbing their hands looking for ways to take advantage of Jin Ling in order to gain power. It's fucked.
The only person he can trust now is Jiang Cheng but even then, he can't be seen relying too heavily on him because people might talk.

Also, pretty sure I've seen around the net that nhs is supposed to be next chief cultivator and boy oh boy do I have thoughts about that....

I can also see that people will think Jin clan is a puppet of Jiang clan once Jin Ling is in charge, and JC would get accused of trying to control the Jin clan through JL. That could bring a lot of trouble in itself, never mind bringing out of the woodwork Jin clan members who hated JGY but were too scared of him to do anything against him. I could see a big conflict brewing.

NHS as next chief cultivator ... ehhhh .... nah. XD

 

[Reid]

I can also see that people will think Jin clan is a puppet of Jiang clan once Jin Ling is in charge, and JC would get accused of trying to control the Jin clan through JL. That could bring a lot of trouble in itself, never mind bringing out of the woodwork Jin clan members who hated JGY but were too scared of him to do anything against him. I could see a big conflict brewing.

NHS as next chief cultivator ... ehhhh .... nah. XD

Right. Just really rocky. I hope JL doesn't end up as bitter and on his toes like JC...

You're not giving NHS enough credit. Tbh, I'm scared of him more than I am of JGY's antics.
I feel like that's when he'll start showing his true colors. Not at first, of course because people would still think he's as dumb as he's made everyone think he is. But gradually, as he establishes his power....

I talked about this with onmyoji lol. Let me see if I can find what I said lol. I swear I need to compile all these essays so I can whip it out easily because retyping them is a pain.

 

[Reid]

Crayons

I found the comments I wrote!
Sorry this seems a bit fragmented but hopefully you can fill in the blanks. (This was over several comments so it wasn't originally one giant essay lol)
This was me pulling shit out of nowhere so taketh of this what you will:

I have this weird headcanon that NHS probably sleeps around but recoils at the idea of actual love. (scared of commitment?) The only person he had his whole life was his older brother, and then he died in the worst way possible and NHS was consumed with revenge. I mean, freaking 16 years of plotting behind the scenes and putting up this front of being the fool? NHS is a little fried in the positive emotions department.
And if he has to marry, it'll be for political reasons. I'll imagine that he wouldn't be a great husband either. Dark!Huaisang is, in my opinion, a very possible thing, especially since apparently he'll be Chief Cultivator after JGY's demise.
If I had more motivation, I would write that fanfic of the cultivation world slowly sliding into tyranny under Dark!Huaisang lol.




Right. Political sense. He's the blackmailing and low-key threatening type. He already threatened JGY anonymously in canon, didn't he? And the fact that he managed to dig up all that dirt on him is evidence of his skill in espionage. Just imagine this:

A sect leader trying to start some shit.

NHS bringing them to the Unclean Realm, sitting on the throne that was once his brother's, in the biggest freaking robes imaginable complete with broad shoulders pads acting like he only invited the sect leader for a friendly chat over tea. Said person probably thinks this is all good, maybe they're feeling a bit cocky because this is know nothing, mr. Headshaker who peonably cries at having to wake up in the morning but nah. The man who greets them with a smile does not look timid so there's already a weird vibe going on. They talk, eat some light snacks, maybe some tea. And I'll imagine as the conversation goes on (most likely about whatever "shit stirring" the sect leader has been doing) the sect leader starts feeling unnerved. Like, is this the same person?? His words are clear, he's confident and acts all the right questions. Except, he already knows some things about this person, starts to ask innocently about their family. What they do.

Now imagine this: NHS flicking out his favorite fan, lightly fanning himself with it, hiding his smile as he says something to the effect of,

Oh, how nice. I'm sure that they would be disappointed to know of what you've been doing and saying....

then adding something that can be percieved as a veiled threat but the person can't prove that NHS is threatening them because the idea in and of itself is rather ridiculous isnt it? This guy being cunning? But at the same time,they feel unnerved by this whole interaction anyway like prey that feels a predator stalking them.


And that's just on the lighter side. If we're gonna add some horror aspects, NHS secretly (and anonymously) buying off a bunch of low level cultivators who are greedy and conniving (think someone like Su She) to kidnap some family member of a sect leader that's starting to displease him and not torturing them, but cutting off a finger, sending them back with that severed finger but other than that, the family member would be fine albeit shaken the hell up. That's just a really gentle reminder to "behave"

Because the way I see it, NHS is not the head-on confrontational type unless you reallllly provoke him.

The things he did while plotting JGY's downfall makes me think he's capable of these things.

Exactly. But at the same time, he would milk his reputation as an idiot for as long as he can but slowly, people would start to whisper and feel slightly terrified when he's mentioned. I wonder if he'll realize that he's turning into something his brother wouldn't be proud of. A twisted sense of justice.

Yes. NHS is a pretty determined person. He knows what he's doing. And just like you said, he understands the severity of his choices. And I think that's scarier than anything JGY has ever come up with.

Gradually indeed. Probably won't notice until it's too late. Or they notice, but refuse to believe it until it's too late.

I'm sure most sect leaders are probably patting themselves on the back, thinking they placed a good little puppet as chief cultivator that would be easy to take advantage of, but oof would it bite them in the ass later on when they realize that he wouldn't be easily manipulated.

 

[Crayons]

You're not giving NHS enough credit. Tbh, I'm scared of him more than I am of JGY's antics.
I feel like that's when he'll start showing his true colors. Not at first, of course because people would still think he's as dumb as he's made everyone think he is. But gradually, as he establishes his power....

Oh he gets the credit alright, I just don't think he would be a good chief cultivator. He doesn't have enough respect in the cultivation world for things not to go totally to shit under his leadership, and him needing to bring out the Big Guns (probably some kind of totalitarian scheming lid to slam onto the boiling pot). I don't see him keeping up his Mr No-Nothing act for very long once he gets to be chief cultivator.

Rather I think that he would be served best as nominating someone else to be chief cultivator and backing them as their chief advisor. This role would suit him way better, and he'd have better chances to influence things to be how he wants them.

You also have to ask whether he wants to be in power or whether he just wanted to get rid of JGY. It doesn't seem to me like he did it in order to benefit himself - but more for justice for Mustachejie and everyone else who got screwed over. I could easily see him turning down a position as chief cultivator or advisor and going into seclusion.

 

[Soot]

Reid You articulate that better than I ever could , about Xue Yang. I remember when I was watching it, I had a distinct feeling like ... hey bro, XXC isn’t a piece of candy for you to hoard? But yeah, it’s interesting.

Crayons hey, valid points. I’m not a big fan of Yi city either tbh, & maybe the reason is because of what you said about it being a separate story first. The fact that he latches on to someone (albeit childishly) and that he did somewhat enjoy the domesticity, to me, make him more than just a stereotypical psychopathic murderer. It’s more fleshed out than what I usually see in these sort of characters, so I consider that complex, but we might just be arguing semantics at this point, bc it’s veering to personal opinion territory . Kinda true that you can analyze just about anything though ... but that’s the beauty of reading (￣∀￣)

I’ve always been under the impression that NHS isn’t power hungry? I thought he was simply nursing his revenge for a long time. Jin Ling would definitely have a hard time, yes. The power base is too unbalanced — he’s what, sixteen? Lots of things could go wrong. I think in a story I’m writing, I had the elders push him into the limelight bc if anything goes wrong again, he’s an easy scapegoat, you know? Or maybe there’s a big power struggle in the background, etc etc. So many ways things could go wrong TT TT. And Jin Ling was younger than Jiang Cheng when he took up the mantle too!

 

[Reid]

Oh he gets the credit alright, I just don't think he would be a good chief cultivator. He doesn't have enough respect in the cultivation world for things not to go totally to shit under his leadership, and him needing to bring out the Big Guns (probably some kind of totalitarian scheming lid to slam onto the boiling pot). I don't see him keeping up his Mr No-Nothing act for very long once he gets to be chief cultivator.

Rather I think that he would be served best as nominating someone else to be chief cultivator and backing them as their chief advisor. This role would suit him way better, and he'd have better chances to influence things to be how he wants them.

You also have to ask whether he wants to be in power or whether he just wanted to get rid of JGY. It doesn't seem to me like he did it in order to benefit himself - but more for justice for Mustachejie and everyone else who got screwed over. I could easily see him turning down a position as chief cultivator or advisor and going into seclusion.

I suppose. It was just a thought since he was apparently supposed to be the next chief cultivator.



Soot haha trust me im not that articulate. I'm a lot better over text because I have time to think about what I want to say. But he really did act like xxc was something to be possessed. Hell, when he sets up the talismans and stuff around XXC's corpse, he says something to the effect of "the dead are better than the living"

Um.... yeah probably to you cuz they can be controlled lol....


Also, JC had no one when he was JL's age. If push comes to shove, at least JL has JC. But still, not a fun time for him to take over as sect leader. Poor boy...

 

[Soot]

Reid True! Jin Ling at least has his uncle(s) there to help him as needed. And no power-hungry, sexist JGS, thank goodness.