Autumn McJavabean
Prettier than you.
So I just played this and completed it. Not as scary as I was told as it was disturbing.
Anyone else a fan of this game?
Anyone else a fan of this game?
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I loved this. The writing was excellent and the concept gives you a lot to think about as a player. It basically imparts that same feeling of being disturbed that I used to get playing Sims 2, etc.That feeling that these virtual people are actually aware of your effect on their world.
For anyone who can truly handle some disturbing subject matter, I'd highly recommend playing it for yourself instead of watching a let's play. I won't lie, when the shoe dropped I threw the game down until the next day and I'd consider myself a hardcore horror fan since age.... 3 XD I didn't flinch at the exorcist, but this.... *shudders*
-Here to spoil[ERS AHEAD] the party.
Doki Doki is shitty Undertale. Metal Gear Solid did meta scares better in 1998. I don't care that they're not visual novels.
My problem with this game is that it is about both too much and not enough at the same time. From my own play-through the game seems to be about the whole trapped-god trope that's been getting popular. Flowey did it better than Monika. File editing and meta-nonsense isn't enough to make the game good, and the game is too late for it to be creative. All it did was take it to the nth degree. I'm not one to overhype the value of creativity of originality, but instead the value of plain old quality, but unfortunately for Doki Doki the game falls flat on both. The scares are cheap, Creepypasta Wiki level 'hyper-realistic blood' nonsense, and don't contribute to the meta aspect of the game at all. The characters are all shallow and the mental illnesses are handled with about as much tact as a child with a paintbrush. I'm not one to get triggered, but the fact that gruesome suicide was used in this game literally just because 'haha get spooked' genuinely upsets me.
This isn't to say the game did nothing good.
There were some points where is was legitimately getting invested in the game. Monika's poems evolving and seeing how her attempts to alter the world kept backfiring on her were interesting, but they were spoiled by the developers resorting to cheap scares that had no place in the game. Sayori's death scene was really well presented and impactful, but after playing fairly thoroughly through run 2 its soured by the idea that the dev was just using mental illness as a cheap way to get the player to feel sorry for the characters. Which, hey, I can understand, because the characters themselves feel like they were literally pulled from TVTropes, having about as much depth to them without their illnesses as any random girl from the latest harem show. Which, sure, I can see as being the point. But it's a bad point. The game doesn't do enough with any of the characters to make up for their generic personalities, and as I mentioned earlier, what it tried to do was clumsy and cheap.
I suppose that's my biggest problem with the game. In general, it's just cheap. I originally walked away from the game thinking "Yeah, that was okay", but this is the result of my stewing on it. What frustrates me the most, is that I think the game could have been something genuinely good. Despite what I said earlier, there was one character I liked in Natsuki. She was the only character in the game who, personally, I think was handled well. And she wasn't even that much better than the rest of the cast. The whole lot of them are cute, I'll admit, but the only one who I felt had enough thought put into their character for them not to be a vehicle for the game to spook you was Natsuki. I can understand the argument that the game is about Monika, but aside from her being a fairly generic yandere, her friends feeling like unfeeling machine also inhibits her arc, considering her redemption is based on how much she loves them.
If you ask me, the game needed longer in the oven. It needed to flesh out the characters a bit more, cut the fat of the cheap scares, and tighten up its meta narrative just a few more notches.
AHHHHHH
This was mostly just rant. Not even going to proofread. Fight me if you want. I just needed to get this off my chest.
Natsuki best girl.
Mmm, one of my main points is that the game should have just had a longer dev time, though. You can spend two things on a project. Time and money. The biggest problem with the game I had was the writing, and that's one of the things that you can definitely just spend time on if you don't have the money. It's even one of the things where time is arguably more valuable than money.True! Although, in its defence, it's a 100% free game, and was made independently by one guy (as far as I'm aware at least) ... which is why around 1-3 hours of content took 2 years to make. When considered by those standards, I think it's great! If you compare it to professionally-made projects though, of course it's going to pale in comparison.
Mmm, one of my main points is that the game should have just had a longer dev time, though. You can spend two things on a project. Time and money. The biggest problem with the game I had was the writing, and that's one of the things that you can definitely just spend time on if you don't have the money. It's even one of the things where time is arguably more valuable than money.
I can understand the idea of it being 'good for being free', but I'm bothered that the game is getting much more praise than I think it deserves. I forgot to mention in my post that on a technical level it's actually quite cool, the file tampering blends into the game play pretty seamlessly and hey, the art is good too. But that's not particularly revolutionary at this point, so the lacking writing really lets the game down for me. Which, sorry for repeating, isn't something that you need money to improve.
Starting from the end, I'd argue that none of the characters actually developed except for Monika. All the changes in characters in the game were forced by her game-tampering, rather than actually being the results of the plot, their, or your actions. The reason why Natsuki feels like she lacks development is because she isn't tampered with by Monika, other than her memories being wiped. Her relationship with her father is instead.SPOILERS: I see your point when it comes to the characters being rather generic, but for a game that is two hours in length, I'd say that's going to be a given. Archetypes/stereotypes exist in media because they are easy to understand and relate to. Sayori is your typical "Feel-good" character, Natsuki is pretty much a tsundere, Yuri is the anti-social bookworm, and Monika is the one ousted from them all, jealous to yandere-type extremes. Your point stands that their personalities are not very fleshed out, but that could be the idea, given that this sort of game spoofs your average harem-visual novel.
Some of the scares were unnecessary, you're right. The one concerning Natsuki when she complains that you didn't read with her... It seemed to be there entirely for shock value. Still, I praise the game on some of its subtly, where it simply uses certain words that put you on edge. At the end of the first act, the shock of Sayori's suicide stayed with me through the game, and the use of minor visual effects or unusual text made sure I wouldn't be able to relax.
I don't disagree with the majority of your points. The writing could have been a bit better, the characters were stereotypical, some scares were unnecessary, the meta-ness (though unfortunately uncommon in most games) wasn't particularly original, but in the end, I feel like the game delivered what it promised: a psychological horror experience. If anyone were to say that, going into this game blind, they weren't at least unsettled, I wouldn't believe them.
Coincidentally, however, I feel like they didn't do enough with Natsuki's character. Not to say I didn't enjoy her presence in the game, she was probably my second favorite character, but I feel like her development was less than that of the others in the story.
Mmm, one of my main points is that the game should have just had a longer dev time, though. You can spend two things on a project. Time and money. The biggest problem with the game I had was the writing, and that's one of the things that you can definitely just spend time on if you don't have the money. It's even one of the things where time is arguably more valuable than money.
I can understand the idea of it being 'good for being free', but I'm bothered that the game is getting much more praise than I think it deserves. I forgot to mention in my post that on a technical level it's actually quite cool, the file tampering blends into the gameplay pretty seamlessly, the poem writing was an unobtrusive minigame and cool way to contextualize route selection and hey, the art is good too. But that's not particularly revolutionary at this point, so the lacking writing really lets the game down for me. Which, sorry for repeating, isn't something that you need money to improve.
Yeah. It's popular for similar reasons to anime like re:Zero and Erased. Its got a good hook, is easy to get into, and has strong presentation.I think the reason why it's so popular is because it's very -- this probably isn't the best way of putting it -- easy to digest? Like Kyro said, it takes 2 hours to finish on average, so you don't really need to invest a lot of time to absorb the message. It's short, simple, and somewhat straightforward so it tends to draw in a larger population. Also, hype likes to touch itself, so there's that.
Starting from the end, I'd argue that none of the characters actually developed except for Monika. All the changes in characters in the game were forced by her game-tampering, rather than actually being the results of the plot, their, or your actions. The reason why Natsuki feels like she lacks development is because she isn't tampered with by Monika, other than her memories being wiped. Her relationship with her father is instead.
The reason I liked Natsuki the best is that Salvato did just enough to make me care about her. She was the only one in the game that felt like a tropey character, rather than a character trope, if that makes sense. I'm not against archetypes in general, but you need to do more than just 'copy paste' them into your story. An example of something with basic tropey characters that do their job none the less is Undertale.
Like I mentioned in my response to Slade, the came comes close to being something good, but it think it falls short. I probably wouldn't have posted here if it wasn't for that Overwhelmingly Positive rating on Steam and how everyone seems to be treating it like its the best thing since sliced bread.
Well, I'd disagree that the other issues don't explain their characters. Yuri's obsessive tendencies and shyness are both the result of isolation and just looking at comedians is enough to show that playing the happy guy is a common coping mechanism for depression. Monika is the only one of the bunch that doesn't have this, and its because- as indicated by Sayori losing it when Monika deletes herself- hers are a result of her meta powers. I can see taking issue with Natsuki being the only one not directly meddled with by Monika, but I'd argue thats just another flaw in the games writing. Setting up a scenario with Sayori and Yuri that Natsuki doesn't follow for some reason.Ah, I suppose "development" wasn't the right word, since you're right that most of them didn't change at all. A better word would be "revelation." The secrets that were uncovered throughout the game relative to each character.
I'm sure a reason that I feel that Natsuki's character was underwhelming is because she was hardly touched by Monika. There are other reasons, mostly due to the fact that the issues she deals with don't directly contrast her personalities like the other characters. Sayori's a ball of depression wrapped in a happy-go-lucky bow, Yuri is a quiet character with obsessive tendencies causing her to break such a facade, and Monika is a caring club president willing to kill them all. Natsuki, however, is mean and abrasive because her father is the same way. Perhaps this is why we feel differently about her: Her "issues" explain her personality. I don't think that's a good thing, but perhaps you do. Food for thought
But in the end, I feel that the characters people like the most probably stem from how relatable they are to the player.
This is definitely true for fiction in general, but when I talk about which character is the best I mean from a writing perspective not a 'my waifu' one. Natsuki just happens to be my favorite too, haha.But in the end, I feel that the characters people like the most probably stem from how relatable they are to the player.
Well, I'd disagree that the other issues don't explain their characters. Yuri's obsessive tendencies and shyness are both the result of isolation and just looking at comedians is enough to show that playing the happy guy is a common coping mechanism for depression. Monika is the only one of the bunch that doesn't have this, and its because- as indicated by Sayori losing it when Monika deletes herself- hers are a result of her meta powers. I can see taking issue with Natsuki being the only one not directly meddled with by Monika, but I'd argue thats just another flaw in the games writing. Setting up a scenario with Sayori and Yuri that Natsuki doesn't follow for some reason.
This is definitely true for fiction in general, but when I talk about which character is the best I mean from a writing perspective not a 'my waifu' one. Natsuki just happens to be my favorite too, haha.
It's clear that Sayori's are supposed to, though. She's been isolated in the past so she's clingy to the people she has now, which results in her going fully blown yandere when Monika 'amps her up'.Personally I wouldn't say obsessive tendencies stem from isolation. It's true that stressful situations can cause mental disorders, but what one views as stressful changes depending on the individual (But I guess trying to justify a cause of mental disorders for a fictional character is arbitrary). As for Sayori's character, I touched on it earlier in the forum, concerning how her depression is very "come and go" you could say.
"...one thing that's bugging me is Sayori at the end of the game, when she becomes self aware in place of Monika. Both in the normal ending and special ending, Sayori seems ecstatic that she finally knows about the world outside the game, but Monika tells us that the feeling she had most about such an epiphany is the fact that she's truly and utterly alone in that world. This is odd to me, that Sayori, who is secretly depressed, would be so happy in a world where she really is alone, where everything she thought was real was truly a lie.
It only gets more confusing with the fact that she IS aware of such truths. When you begin the game anew and delete Monika, when starting a new game, Sayori starts with a bit of dialogue:
"What is this? What am I? This can't be all there is!"
This hints that these revelations are instantly clear to her once Monika is out of the picture and she, Sayori, is self aware. This almost instantly causesSayori to, seemingly, delete all of the other characters, including herself. She literally commits suicide of her own volition, without her personality being altered by Monika. So why doesn't she do the same at the end of the game? What is different? That is my question."
This could just be a plot point overlooked by Salvato, but I couldn't confirm that. To me, it seems like all four characters could far more in depth than the game truly shows. With all of the secrets, hidden codes, RNG events, and so on, one could theorize that here's more going on than meets the eye. I'm pretty sure it's no secret that Salvato's next game will have ties to this one, so there's bound to be things hidden even from those who spend hundreds of hours combing through the game. I just hope it won't get to the point that FNAF has.
Reposting because I misunderstood your post, sorry.Personally I wouldn't say obsessive tendencies stem from isolation. It's true that stressful situations can cause mental disorders, but what one views as stressful changes depending on the individual (But I guess trying to justify a cause of mental disorders for a fictional character is arbitrary). As for Sayori's character, I touched on it earlier in the forum, concerning how her depression is very "come and go" you could say.
"...one thing that's bugging me is Sayori at the end of the game, when she becomes self aware in place of Monika. Both in the normal ending and special ending, Sayori seems ecstatic that she finally knows about the world outside the game, but Monika tells us that the feeling she had most about such an epiphany is the fact that she's truly and utterly alone in that world. This is odd to me, that Sayori, who is secretly depressed, would be so happy in a world where she really is alone, where everything she thought was real was truly a lie.
It only gets more confusing with the fact that she IS aware of such truths. When you begin the game anew and delete Monika, when starting a new game, Sayori starts with a bit of dialogue:
"What is this? What am I? This can't be all there is!"
This hints that these revelations are instantly clear to her once Monika is out of the picture and she, Sayori, is self aware. This almost instantly causesSayori to, seemingly, delete all of the other characters, including herself. She literally commits suicide of her own volition, without her personality being altered by Monika. So why doesn't she do the same at the end of the game? What is different? That is my question."
This could just be a plot point overlooked by Salvato, but I couldn't confirm that. To me, it seems like all four characters could far more in depth than the game truly shows. With all of the secrets, hidden codes, RNG events, and so on, one could theorize that here's more going on than meets the eye. I'm pretty sure it's no secret that Salvato's next game will have ties to this one, so there's bound to be things hidden even from those who spend hundreds of hours combing through the game. I just hope it won't get to the point that FNAF has.