Viewpoint Why can't RPs seem to get Eldritch Horror/Cosmic Horror/Lovecraftian Horror right

[tuxedo-fish]

Junji Ito on the other hand is also great.

DRR... DRR... DRR...

 

[Crenando]

um... sure. I'll take your word for it cause I have literally no idea what that is.

Basically it's a Japanese horror story that made cosmic horror out of spirals and actually ended up making it terrifying.

Certain protags really don't work in Lovecraft stories. Not if you want it to be Lovecraftian by design and intent, vs having influences or flavors of it. If you're a hero in a Lovercraft tale, you're not a confident hotshot who is tough as nails, smart as a whip, and is ready to rise above, impress, win over, and save the day...that's not what Lovecraft did, and what he did was highly specific, bordering on the repetitive. It's not that he always did the same things, but he had an approach to characters in story telling that defines them all. They are not heroes. They aren't born to succeed, nor do they usually have a great deal of control over or power in their circumstance. Lovecraftian characters are tools, pawns to be used up and destroyed by the grinding gears of cosmic horror. When a Lovecraftian character doesn't go insane, we are all a little disappointed inside.

So to say you can use any old protag in a Loveccraft story, I strongly disagree, if we're talking "Lovecraftian" vs "Has Lovecraftian elements".

That's why I specified mundane protagonists. If you don't do that, you end up with that sort of Bronze Age comic book or pulp revival feel, like you're half-way to having The Shadow, Ash Williams or The Defenders show up.
Color Out of Space handled it well because it was just about a quirky little family that wouldn't be out of place in a comedy and then things went Magenta.

 

[M.J. Saulnier]

That's why I specified mundane protagonists.

Fair enough, you had said that.

 

[Murdergurl]

Basically it's a Japanese horror story that made cosmic horror out of spirals and actually ended up making it terrifying.

The Japanese actually have some interesting horror. The stuff made out of their folklore and urban legends are interesting too.

 

[Crenando]

The Japanese actually have some interesting horror. The stuff made out of their folklore and urban legends are interesting too.

If you're not into the anime or manga thing but you're into Japanese horror, I'd check out Junji Ito's work. It might change your views on the mediums.

 

[tuxedo-fish]

If you're not into the anime or manga thing but you're into Japanese horror, I'd check out Junji Ito's work. It might change your views on the mediums.

Or give you longstanding, horrible fears about mundane-seeming things.

...just like Lovecraft, really. :V

 

[Phantom Thief of Hearts]

Or give you longstanding, horrible fears about mundane-seeming things.

...just like Lovecraft, really. :V

Lovecraft is a strange strange man.

 

[Murdergurl]

If you're not into the anime or manga thing but you're into Japanese horror, I'd check out Junji Ito's work. It might change your views on the mediums.

I wouldn't say I'm into it, but I appreciate a fresh breath away from the re-run that is American cinema.

 

[TPBx]

I agree with a lot of the sentiment here. Writing good cosmic horror is already hard enough in the first place. Finding other people who can also do it and having them conveniently in one place to collaboratively write a story is an impossible task.

 

[Murdergurl]

I agree with a lot of the sentiment here. Writing good cosmic horror is already hard enough in the first place. Finding other people who can also do it and having them conveniently in one place to collaboratively write a story is an impossible task.

you could say it's.... mind-bending?

 

[M.J. Saulnier]

Lovecraft actually became a huge influence of mine later into my RP experience. I got into his work through an old RP partner who turned me onto him because of my approach to characters (tending to be hard on them). When I took in his approach to characters, it stuck with me in a big way. I don't push my characters to their literal limits like he did, I don't think I'd have the skill to try anymore, but I do put a lot of my characters through hell. I enjoy taking power from them and making them uncomfortable. Lovecraft was a master at this.

 

[Crenando]

Maybe this is a random take, but a lot of people have moved away from Lovecraft in modern age due to his...very racist view-points. It has come more to light, I personally know a lot of people who like work of a similar genre but aren't comfortable in particular with his work as they feel his morals have bled into the writing as metaphors.

Junji Ito on the other hand is also great.

It's the kind of thing impacted the modern day popularity of a lot of influential pulp authors.

 

[M.J. Saulnier]

I felt bad about going into it but I think we are all fans here, and I've been dying to.

HP fascinates me because it's not very surprising that his work is as good as it is. The man was a master of writing horror because he lived in horror. The man had a grocery list of legitimate fears ranging from the bizarre to the racial. He had a fear of other races, but it was less racism, more mental health, because he feared so, so many things. His ability to canonize and give life to his personal hell has been a morbid fascination of mine for over a decade. I too have a lot of pain I wish I could channel into my art, and I envy his unique, genius ability to do so.

I'm putting off watching A Colour Out of Space because I just have no faith in the industry right now to handle a body of his work. The public sensitivity level is primed for it, but the creative talents at the ground level are not.

 

[Phantom Thief of Hearts]

It's the kind of thing impacted the modern day popularity of a lot of influential pulp authors.

And Lovecraft was less "I hate those racial minorities! I'm going to make the Confederates the heroes of my stories!" and more "THEY'RE DIFFERENT! I'M SCARED! I MUST HIDE FROM THEM!" Which neither is good at all.


He's again a very strange man... Much like his work.

 

[Crayons]

I think there's kind of an issue with ... even if you wrote great depictions of sanity-melting elder gods... people wanting their characters to actually have their sanity melted. It would be like this:

GM: Sanity-melting elder god manifests.
Player: My character is so brave that they are completely unaffected and instead challenge the elder god to a duel.

 

[Phantom Thief of Hearts]

I think there's kind of an issue with ... even if you wrote great depictions of sanity-melting elder gods... people wanting their characters to actually have their sanity melted. It would be like this:

GM: Sanity-melting elder god manifests.
Player: My character is so brave that they are completely unaffected and instead challenge the elder god to a duel.

Maybe that's why I like the tabletop crowd for this stuff better 'cause from what I hear they mostly do everything to get their sanity melted just because it's fun. lol

 

[Syntra]

I don't really think it's because of the players' inability to grasp the genre, or because of some inherent need for their character to be the biggest badass to ever badass. Like, I keep hearing these horror stories about Mary Sues and power plays and what have you and that hasn't been my experience at all. I just think that it's one of those things that is cool to read about, but not really fun to roleplay out? Writing about the characters' slow descent into madness for 100+ posts would be draining, I believe. I've tried it in the past, but it got boring very fast.

 

[Crow]

I think there's kind of an issue with ... even if you wrote great depictions of sanity-melting elder gods... people wanting their characters to actually have their sanity melted. It would be like this:

GM: Sanity-melting elder god manifests.
Player: My character is so brave that they are completely unaffected and instead challenge the elder god to a duel.

How about a GM-mediated SAN system?

There we go.

 

[Crow]

I don't really think it's because of the players' inability to grasp the genre, or because of some inherent need for their character to be the biggest badass to ever badass. Like, I keep hearing these horror stories about Mary Sues and power plays and what have you and that hasn't been my experience at all. I just think that it's one of those things that is cool to read about, but not really fun to roleplay out? Writing about the characters' slow descent into madness for 100+ posts would be draining, I believe. I've tried it in the past, but it got boring very fast.

Old Man Henderson - 1d4chan

1d4chan.org

Here's your biggest badass to ever badass.

 

[ElectronicSnow]

I think there's kind of an issue with ... even if you wrote great depictions of sanity-melting elder gods... people wanting their characters to actually have their sanity melted. It would be like this:

GM: Sanity-melting elder god manifests.
Player: My character is so brave that they are completely unaffected and instead challenge the elder god to a duel.

Or alternatively “My character is driven mad and spends every waking moment praying for a death that will never come.”

Not much more to RP once they meet the elder god.

 

[Idea]

For several reasons, true Lovecraftian styles are a tall ask in RP. Most people wouldn't know how to, or be comfortable playing a Lovecraftian character. The sense of powerlessness, the vulnerability and frailty of mind, never really knowing exactly what is going on, never having the answers you really need, never really being able to say you fixed whatever was wrong, I mean do I have to go on?

A true Lovecraftian character would rub most players the wrong way, in every way. They would be miserable playing it and probably ghost out. But furthermore, I don't think the majority would even understand cosmic horror enough to play a true Lovecraftian OC.

I think this is pretty much most of what I was gonna day, better than I could have said it. (Especially right after waking up)

The one thing I would add is that something as themes-based as Eldritch horror requires a degree of of discipline and cooperation that isn't exactly widespread.

 

[Crenando]

Or alternatively “My character is driven mad and spends every waking moment praying for a death that will never come.”

Not much more to RP once they meet the elder god.

There's actually a chart to see how they go mad in the Call of Cthulhu RPG, so you can play out your new, weird irrational fear.

 

[CecilDMMasters]

In RPs I've been in and the fans of Lovecraft I know often are simply inspired by Lovecraft the same as someone is inspired by myths and legends and other writings. They aren't so much trying to make a true Lovecraft style story but his works are where they got their urge for this particular creative streak. Which can mean it can be a very far cry from his work. Also you need to remember that while a large group consider Lovecraft to only be what was written by HP Lovecraft many people consider the full Lovecraft circle to be Lovecraftian. And some consider even newer writers of the mythos to be part of the circle. And that can vastly vary. Especially if they are fans of the goofier stuff like The Mall of Cthulhu and The Last Lovecraft.

I think a RP in a full blown true Lovecraft story style would be something many would not like. Not saying it's impossible by any means. I once talked to someone who did Call Of Cthulhu RPs IRL and taken it serious down to literally researching the time frame. So I'm sure you could find it somewhere online. You just need to put it out their you are interested and see if you find a group.

 

[ElectronicSnow]

There's actually a chart to see how they go mad in the Call of Cthulhu RPG, so you can play out your new, weird irrational fear.

Ok that might work!

 

[Grey]

I do a lot of Lovecraft-inspired RP content (although I tend to make it slow burn; I don't mention it anywhere in the interest check only that it's going to be a horror story). He was a major influence on my writing, though I think I've left him behind for the most part - the world has moved on and for a lot of people the existential nihilism of Lovecraft is practically a cultural norm.
So people engage with the aesthetic, not the themes, for the most part, because no one reads modern cosmic horror or thinks about how the form would evolve to - like all effective horror - reflect the anxieties of the culture in which it is written.

tl;dr don't expect professional writing from hobbyists.