Dice Trial By Fire - OOC

[D. Rex]

Sherwood

Using some of my emassed experience.


I would like to purchase:

Merit- language old realm 3sxp
Lore 4 - 6sxp
MA charm- hearing the hearts song 8sxp

Charms (24xp)
Performance: voice hurling method (long range attacks!)

Presence: listener swaying argument

Socialize: mastery of small manners



Would this be permissible or would you like training time for these as its a big purchase?

 

[Sherwood]

Those purchases are acceptable. No need to worry about training times.

 

[D. Rex]

Sherwood
And the hearthstones?

 

[Sherwood]

Picky picky picky. lol

 

[D. Rex]

Picky picky picky. lol

Lol not all!

Just curious curious curious. Like when you get a pile of Halloween candy and want to see what you got :3

I already got two good ones, that i doubt I'd replace. But! Since Bard is basically just looking through the stuff to sort it out for the others.

He isn't the smartest, but he has good lore. So is a good a person as any to take up appraisal duty. Unless Mahina or Melinda wish to do the honors.

 

[Sherwood]

Stones are now listed.

 

[Rykon]

Hmm, I might change up Valden's panoply with some of these. He needs some armor, and I may want to shuffle things around to lower his total attunement. Assuming no objections in character, he hasn't done much to contribute yet.

 

[Sherwood]

I have no objections to that, but I just work here.

 

[Psychie]

Hmm, I might change up Valden's panoply with some of these. He needs some armor, and I may want to shuffle things around to lower his total attunement. Assuming no objections in character, he hasn't done much to contribute yet.

We can deal with that no problem.

 

[D. Rex]

No objections from me!


The only things I might be interested are:

Perfected Kata Bracers: These will be a good buff for Bard. I don't think anyone should mind as I think Bard is the only one with Martial Arts.

Ghost Summoning Whistle: Might be good to hold onto for him given his Castes anima ability of ghosts having an automatic Defining tie towards his authority. At least how I have read it.







Sherwood
It requires another purchase of 4dots of merits to learn a new MA style, correct? 12xp I think.

I may need to start learning more if I want to explore some of the evocations of Whispers of Perfection as I think they require mastering different styles of martial arts to unlock them.

 

[Sherwood]

I am not going to require you to spend another 12 xp to learn another MA style. The fact that you are now required to spend those points irks my soul for some reason, and I just don't know why it bothers me so much. No other Charm or Spell requires you to fork out that many of your starting Merits to get it, so why are martial arts forced to?

 

[D. Rex]

I am not going to require you to spend another 12 xp to learn another MA style. The fact that you are now required to spend those points irks my soul for some reason, and I just don't know why it bothers me so much. No other Charm or Spell requires you to fork out that many of your starting Merits to get it, so why are martial arts forced to?

Thats a good question that I've been asking myself too. Some of the MA charms are good, as are the forms, but nothing that really stands out above what is possible in Melee, Brawl, Thrown, and Archery.

Nothing that really makes the cost barrier seem worth it.

The biggest advantave I can think of would be that you can buy MA charms with Solar XP.

And I mean, that is pretty nice. But is it really 12xp/4bp nice?

 

[jaydude]

Off the top of my head, the only advantage Martial Arts gives you is a combat style that can be used with or without weapons, and that's not guaranteed for every style.

 

[Random Word]

OOC These are slightly modified Perfected Kata Bracers with a lower Commitment cost. They take 5m to attune, and once you activate your Form Charm, it adds your Essence to the accuracy, damage and defense of your unarmed attacks and of attacks made with the active Form-type Charm’s particular weapons. You may choose to inflict bashing or lethal damage at will and you may parry lethal attacks unarmed.

This is really strong for a 3e artifact. I don't mind Bard becoming a combat monster, but you should definitely know what you're getting yourself into here. +Essence non-Charm successes to Defence and +Essence non-Charm dice to attack and damage that stacks with artifact weapons is going to make him literally untouchable at higher Essences. You basically gave him an Indefinite Duration 5m Non-Charm Infinite Ability Mastery for MA, and IAM doesn't exist in 3e for a reason. He'll be walking around with a resting parry of like 12, and that's only if he doesn't optimize. This thing is a N/A tier combat booster that makes the finest of 5 dot First Age weapons look weak by comparison.

Things that are a legitimate threat to Bard are going to wreck everyone else.

 

[Random Word]

The biggest advantave I can think of would be that you can buy MA charms with Solar XP.

It's this, which is huge (Almost twice as many Charms! That's nuts), and also that MA is the only combat ability that allows free mixing of Charms between trees. You can't use a Melee Charm with a Brawl Charm on an attack (unless the Charm says otherwise), but you can absolutely combo White Veil and Ebon Shadow Charms on an attack, which can lead to some insane combos if you go deep enough into multiple MAs.

 

[D. Rex]

Its written in stone that I will never optimize. I'm a regular Unoptimus Inferior. The Anti-Rykon. The Chief min/minner.


Though i was thinking it was a bit potent too. I didn't have a lot of reference for it. But with an average of 4-5 as a dv, a +2^ seems like a pretty good jump. The attack and damage seem more reasonable.

I'll be happy to work and help think it more reasonable though! 2e doesn't always translate perfectly to 3e, so different effects could be reasoned.

It's this, which is huge (Almost twice as many Charms! That's nuts), and also that MA is the only combat ability that allows free mixing of Charms between trees. You can't use a Melee Charm with a Brawl Charm on an attack (unless the Charm says otherwise), but you can absolutely combo White Veil and Ebon Shadow Charms on an attack, which can lead to some insane combos if you go deep enough into multiple MAs.

I actually thought about that, but having technically speaking its still MA charms with MA charms. And I THINK, but not sure, that when a form charm is active you can only use charms of that style. Couldn't find that in writing though.

I can see a lot of cool combos, like almost any MA supplemental to a Nightingale Kiai. By mastering martial arts and stunting the right supplementals, it could allow for a bunch of creative stunts.

Still, even with it being that good. The cost is still super high. As I think even after the merit cost, you would have to rebuy MA skill dots for that style. And the charms.

While that isn't inherently a bad thing, as i think it would be fun for a martial artist to learn a new style that way from story to story. The costs to benefit ratio still seems a good bit wonky.

 

[Random Word]

And I THINK, but not sure, that when a form charm is active you can only use charms of that style.

Nope, there's no prohibition on using Charms from other styles when a Form is active.

 

[D. Rex]

Nope, there's no prohibition on using Charms from other styles when a Form is active.

Cool beans. Certainly will make martial arting more fun.







So what would be an appropriate translation do you think for the PKB? Using some things as an example, Seven Leaping Dragons had a change of function and our favorite Bamboo was cut in half. (Not that they weren't justified in 3e)



Seeing as that the PKB theme seems to be draw out a martial artists latent potential, what then might some alternative effects be.


Perhaps the alignment lets one use their skills at greater efficiency, reducing MA costs by a certain amount. By essence? That might be too much at later levels.

Perhaps by honing already trained essence of the martial artist it still adds dice. More limited, maybe. Like, if with Defense(or attack and damage) its 1/2 [Stat] rounded up(or down). Perhaps it only adds one or two successes instead of all that many die. Perhaps accuracy only applies to withering and damage to decisive, or vice versa.


Maybe it allows the removal of some restriction with Martial arts or charms.

Maybe it allows improvised mundane weaponry, in the hands of a master martial artist, to strike with the stats of an artifact variant.

Maybe it lets one always be able to active a Form charm reflexively and get the special activation bonus at any time rather than only the form specific trigger.




Just a few idea. Could mix and match or only one. Just figured I'd do some brainstorming in case Sherwood wants to change it. Random Word being more experienced in this, any thoughts?

 

[Random Word]

Maybe it allows the removal of some restriction with Martial arts or charms.

Maybe it allows improvised mundane weaponry, in the hands of a master martial artist, to strike with the stats of an artifact variant.

Maybe it lets one always be able to active a Form charm reflexively and get the special activation bonus at any time.

These are all great ideas. It could act as an Artifact Weapon that counts as a Form Weapon for all styles, which is quite strong. It could certainly give improvised weapons artifact stats (Dreaming Pearl Courtesan Style has a Charm like that). Allowing you to always meet the Form criteria for reflexive activation is strong but not unreasonable for a high tier artifact (And while we're at it, It should also let you only pay the difference between Form costs when switching Forms). In 3e it would likely do one or maybe two of these things, and then others would be Evocations.

 

[D. Rex]

These are all great ideas. It could act as an Artifact Weapon that counts as a Form Weapon for all styles, which is quite strong. It could certainly give improvised weapons artifact stats (Dreaming Pearl Courtesan Style has a Charm like that). Allowing you to always meet the Form criteria for reflexive activation is strong but not unreasonable for a high tier artifact (And while we're at it, It should also let you only pay the difference between Form costs when switching Forms). In 3e it would likely do one or maybe two of these things, and then others would be Evocations.

Firstly. Paying the difference between form charms is standard. With the cost acting as a commitment. Going from 10mt form to an 8mt one. You get those 2mt returned. Or vice versa you would only pay 2mt.

As that comes standard, The only real upgrade on that I could see would be just a reduction in cost.




Being able to qualify for weapon benefits would certainly be an interesting one. It would be very reasonable too, as the masterful realignment of ones essence turns you into the weapon itself through suitable stunt.

While you would obviously not get evocations from that weapon, as its not a weapon being used, the versatility of being able to MA charms more freely together is a worthwhile one.


As it stands, Nightingales kiai already acts as a light artifact thrown weapon. Mechanically speaking it would just be the same in effect, just applied to different styles.



If coupled with the form charm boon as discussed. It would really highlight the theme of flow the PKB has. Not making you more powerful, but instead letting you move through your skills with unparalleled ease.




Another idea, would be taking a note from Whispers of Perfection and your idea of Evocations. Maybe more powers can only be unlocked when more MA styles are mastered(form charms learned). Making the PKBs true potential known only to the most learned martial art masters, who can flow from style to style with the protean grace of moonsilver itself.

 

[jaydude]

In terms of experience spending, I'd like to buy the following:

Abilities
Integrity 3 for 3 exp

Charms
Body-Mending Meditation for 8 exp (Don't know if I already specified this here.)
Solar Counterattack for 8 exp
Harmonious Academic Methodology for 8 exp
Holistic Battle Understanding for 8 exp
Redoubt-Raising Gesture for 8 exp
General of the All-Seeing Sun for 8 exp

G.H. Evocations
Guardian Host Assembly for 10 Solar exp (Don't know if I already specified this here.)
Gemstone Soldier Refinement for 10 Solar exp (All the above spending equates to 50+ exp spent, thus unlocking Essence 2 Charms outside of my Supernal)

Dauntless Evocations
Pounding Heart Triumph, automatically unlocked when defeating an opponent representing a Major or Defining threat (Assuming at least one of the foes in the last encounter counts here.)

Other
A permanent Size 2 battle group of Polished Soldiers created through Gemstone Solar Refinement for 2 exp

 

[Random Word]

Just in case you missed it, Solar XP doesn't count towards XP expenditure for Essence increasing purposes. You should have 50+ regular XP to spend, though. I wasn't sure if you were counting Solar XP since you wrote the E2 upgrade beside a Solar XP purchase.

Edit: Ah, I'm guessing that's an E2 evocation - I understand now.

 

[jaydude]

Just in case you missed it, Solar XP doesn't count towards XP expenditure for Essence increasing purposes. You should have 50+ regular XP to spend, though. I wasn't sure if you were counting Solar XP since you wrote the E2 upgrade beside a Solar XP purchase.

Edit: Ah, I'm guessing that's an E2 evocation - I understand now.

Yeah, the 50+ exp I spent was all vanilla exp.

 

[Random Word]

Kuaidao gave Maja a confused look, wondering what she meant by a Dynast trying to set him on fire, before he remembered Mahina hitting the Abyssal swordsman with some kind of fire attack during the earlier battle.

Maja isn't crazy, I swear. I might be, though. I assumed Mahina had cast Flight of the Brilliant Raptor, which creates a raging inferno that engulfs everything within Short Range of the target (A fact D.Rex reminded me of when Ember tried to use the spell in an enclosed room in his game). That would have covered everyone on the battlefield - I had thought Sherwood was just kind enough not to make us all roll to avoid being set on fire.

 

[jaydude]

I assumed Mahina had cast Flight of the Brilliant Raptor, which creates a raging inferno that engulfs everything within Short Range of the target (A fact D.Rex reminded me of when Ember tried to use the spell in an enclosed room in his game). That would have covered everyone on the battlefield - I had thought Sherwood was just kind enough not to make us all roll to avoid being set on fire.

Yeah, I figured much the same.