Other The 'Paragraph Problem'

[Birdsie]

***​

He found it a lot harder to concentrate on drills that afternoon and when he left the building at five o'clock, he was still so worried that he walked straight into someone just outside the door.

"Sorry," he grunted, as the tiny old man stumbled and almost fell. It was a few seconds before Mr. Dursley realized that the man was wearing a violet cloak. He didn't seem at all upset at being almost knocked to the ground. On the contrary, his face split into a wide smile and he said in a squeaky voice that made passersby stare, "Don't be sorry, my dear sir, for nothing could upset me today! Rejoice, for You-Know-Who has gone at last! Even Muggles like yourself should be celebrating, this happy, happy day!"

And the old man hugged Mr. Dursley around the middle and walked off.

Mr. Dursley stood rooted to the spot. He had been hugged by a complete stranger. He also thought he had been called a Muggle, whatever that was. He was rattled. He hurried to his car and set off for home, hoping he was imagining things, which he had never hoped before, because he didn't approve of imagination.

As he pulled into the driveway of number four, the first thing he saw -- and it didn't improve his mood -- was the tabby cat he'd spotted that morning. It was now sitting on his garden wall. He was sure it was the same one; it had the same markings around its eyes.

[...]

"Well, Ted," said the weatherman, "I don't know about that, but it's not only the owls that have been acting oddly today. Viewers as far apart as Kent, Yorkshire, and Dundee have been phoning in to tell me that instead of the rain I promised yesterday, they've had a downpour of shooting stars! Perhaps people have been celebrating Bonfire Night early -- it's not until next week, folks! But I can promise a wet night tonight."

Mr. Dursley sat frozen in his armchair. Shooting stars all over Britain? Owls flying by daylight? Mysterious people in cloaks all over the place? And a whisper, a whisper about the Potters...

Mrs. Dursley came into the living room carrying two cups of tea. It was no good. He'd have to say something to her. He cleared his throat nervously. "Er -- Petunia, dear -- you haven't heard from your sister lately, have you?"

As he had expected, Mrs. Dursley looked shocked and angry. After all, they normally pretended she didn't have a sister. "No," she said sharply. "Why?"

"Funny stuff on the news," Mr. Dursley mumbled. "Owls... shooting stars... and there were a lot of funny-looking people in town today..."

"So?" snapped Mrs. Dursley.

"Well, I just thought... maybe... it was something to do with... you know... her crowd."

Mrs. Dursley sipped her tea through pursed lips. Mr. Dursley wondered whether he dared tell her he'd heard the name "Potter." He decided he didn't dare. Instead he said, as casually as he could, "Their son -- he'd be about Dudley's age now, wouldn't he?"

"I suppose so," said Mrs. Dursley stiffly.

"What's his name again? Howard, isn't it?"

"Harry. Nasty, common name, if you ask me."

"Oh, yes," said Mr. Dursley, his heart sinking horribly. "Yes, I quite agree."

***​

The above is from J.K. Rowling's "Harry Potter and The Sorcerer's Stone," pages 3 to 5, quoted word-for-word.

Make note of how clear and immaculate the writing is; if you take a moment to dissect how it is paragraphed, you will come to the conclusion that each paragraph is like a single "shot" or "take." Each one describes a string of action or thought, most often showing the actions of one character, but very seldom (and when it doesn't break the flow,) two or more.

This is done to make the outcome very easy to take in. The reader's eyes drift from line to line, taking in one line altogether as a "shot" and moving onto the next piece. This is most prominently shown in dialogue, where the conversation is curt and changes from one character to the other fluidly, adding in a note on how their line was said from time to time.

In fact, the flow is so smooth at one point that the writer completely forgoes using the character's name because by that point, the reader is invested enough in the scene that he already knows whose turn to talk it is and they can easily imagine it:

***
"I suppose so," said Mrs. Dursley stiffly.

"What's his name again? Howard, isn't it?"

"Harry. Nasty, common name, if you ask me."
***

This paragraphing is very efficient. It clears up everything, but there are no factual rules for paragraphing in writing. Now, you might cringe or squeak with delight as I tell you this, but please keep an open mind as I tell you that of all things, I found a FIMFiction writing guide of them all to be exceptionally educational, not just with paragraphing, but writing overall. Going back to my point, let me quote said guide's chapter on paragraphing and add that I agree with it:

***

New writers often have a bad habit of clumping all of their text into one or two paragraphs, likely because they don’t entirely understand the purpose of paragraphing, and they think it makes their writing look really long and impressive or something.

I will be the first to admit that I probably use too many paragraphs, but it’s better to do that than to use too few. Paragraphs enhance readability, and if your work’s not readable, no-one’s going to read it!

Paragraphs don’t have to be a certain minimum or maximum length. A single sentence can be its own paragraph. A paragraph can also, technically, be as many sentences long as you want, but you’ll usually find that it’s time to start a new one when you get past seven or eight.

The general idea is this:

★ One idea per paragraph. ★

The first paragraph of this section was about the paragraphing habits of new writers. The second was about my own possible shortcomings in regards to paragraphing. The third one was about paragraph length. This one is a summary of all the paragraphs that have come before.

Ice-cream is very tasty. My favourite flavour is vanilla, and I never put anything on it, because you should never put anything on good ice-cream.

Now that I’m done talking about ice-cream, I’ve started a new paragraph to talk about something else. There are no hard and fast rules about where to begin or end a paragraph, but you should get the hang of it with enough practice and enough reading.

***

But often, you see clustered paragraphs, like this one: (I wrote it up myself as an example.)

"Of course traps are not gay. Only an idiot would think to say so. Once again, traps are not gay, and I can prove it. I... I will prove it..." Markus argued, crossing his arms and glaring at his enemy who made the assertion. After a moment, he let his arms fall to his side, he tried to contain his anger, but couldn't. He looked at Jason with enmity. "I'll prove it with combat, that is. If traps were gay, I would not have ninjutsu super-powers. By beating you, I can prove my point! Take up your weapons," he ordered as he reached for and drew his two sai. He ran forward, his torso heavily leaning forward while his arms hung back. He let out a deafening screech as he ran across the pavement, intending to impale his opponent. But instead, he tripped and released a pair of huffs as his bruised body tumbled and rolled until it was just under his opponent's feet. Ashamed, and feeling the sand in his mouth, he spat onto the ground as he used his arms for leverage. He looked up at Jason and dryly said, "We'll call this a draw." He got up and walked away, clutching his arm which hurt badly after the accident. He forgot to take his weapons, which fell to the ground.

This is never seen in books for the reasons stated above, and seems to be exclusive to forum writing. As the creator of the writing guide that I've quoted above pointed out, it tends to be exclusive to new writers who have a poor idea of what paragraphing is about, and thus forming the bad habit of forcing everything into one or two paragraphs. As such, many users of online roleplaying forums like RPN also belong to this category of writers.

We struggle with this every day, and as such, I've decided to dub this phenomenon the 'Paragraph Problem.'

How can we counter-act this? Are tutorials and guides the key? What do you think?

References:
- Harry Potter & The Sorcerer's Stone (pages 3 to 5) by J.K. Rowling.
- This: Writing Guide - Fimfiction

 

[salty_ moustachio]

Usually when I see people roleplay with clustered paragraphs I run for the hills because it's a sign of poor writing ability in my eyes.

But I'm a snob like that.

 

[hologram]

I try to strike a balance and often vary paragraph lengths depending on what's going on in the scene and the sort of tone I want to bring across in my writing. When I go heavy on introspection my paragraphs get longer but if things are lighter on the introspection and description I'll lean more towards shorter ones.

For scenes of dialogue I make sure each character speaking gets their own paragraph and sometimes I'll let certain impactful statements that could possibly be rolled up at the end of a previous paragraph exist on their own line to emphasize their effect.

My paragraphs never get quite that clustered though, even at my most introspective.

I must have really good luck with partners as I've never run into this specific issue, or at least I haven't in a very long time. I don't deny the problem exists, though.

I will say some of it can probably be chalked up to differing writing styles though an example like the one you cited is certainly less an issue of 'different style, but valid' and more 'there are some serious readability issues here'.

 

[Jolly Roger]

I'm a bit worried now, since as a new writer I fall into these kinds of traps often. This served as a good warning for the future, though. Do players really abandon RPs because of simple formatting issues like this? : (

 

[Birdsie]

I try to strike a balance and often vary paragraph lengths depending on what's going on in the scene and the sort of tone I want to bring across in my writing. When I go heavy on introspection my paragraphs get longer but if things are lighter on the introspection and description I'll lean more towards shorter ones.

For scenes of dialogue I make sure each character speaking gets their own paragraph and sometimes I'll let certain impactful statements that could possibly be rolled up at the end of a previous paragraph exist on their own line to emphasize their effect.

My paragraphs never get quite that clustered though, even at my most introspective.

I must have really good luck with partners as I've never run into this specific issue, or at least I haven't in a very long time. I don't deny the problem exists, though.

I will say some of it can probably be chalked up to differing writing styles though an example like the one you cited is certainly less an issue of 'different style, but valid' and more 'there are some serious readability issues here'.

The way you do it is how anyone sensible does it, including me, but there are individuals who do it with the clusterfuck method instead, and I often try to set them straight in OOC discussion of some sort.

I'm a bit worried now, since as a new writer I fall into these kinds of traps often. This served as a good warning for the future, though. Do players really abandon RPs because of simple formatting issues like this? : (

I haven't abandoned RPs because of this, but I try to tell people why the method presented in this thread is superior due to its crystal-clear readability.

 

[Bone2pick]

As the creator of the writing guide that I've quoted above pointed out, it tends to be exclusive to new writers who have a poor idea of what paragraphing is about, and thus forming the bad habit of forcing everything into one or two paragraphs.

While I imagine it's more prevalent among newer writers it's definitely not exclusive to them. Believe it or not, there are people (some of whom would identify as "veteran" forum roleplayers) who aren't particularly interested or motivated to improve as storytellers. In their case, no amount of guides will help.

 

[Birdsie]

While I imagine it's more prevalent among newer writers it's definitely not exclusive to them. Believe it or not, there are people (some of whom would identify as "veteran" forum roleplayers) who aren't particularly interested or motivated to improve as storytellers. In their case, no amount of guides will help.

Good lord, help us all...

 

[salty_ moustachio]

I'm a bit worried now, since as a new writer I fall into these kinds of traps often. This served as a good warning for the future, though. Do players really abandon RPs because of simple formatting issues like this? : (

Sorry!

Normally the people I've come across who have this problem have other problems too (Mary Sueism, excessive drama etc) and so when I drop it's because of more than just the formatting.

But I will tell someone if they do this and see if they can rectify it.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

People who respond on their phone will have this problem. Same with people who can't be bothered to format. Or proofread. A roleplay isn't the same as a novel or essay, so writing rules aren't as strict and some people don't feel the need to cater to writing elites on the site beyond basic readability. If it's understandable it's respond-able is a common mindset, especially among some of the less literate rpers. Players that consider roleplay as more an interactive game than a writing exercise may think that way as well. No one likes the grammar Nazi.

At the very least, all the dialogue from the above example seems to be coming from one character. I've seen dialogue from multiple characters jumbled into one paragraph...such that it's almost impossible to distinguish which character is saying what without re-reading or using context clues =/

 

[salty_ moustachio]

People who respond on their phone will have this problem.

I respond on my phone a lot. And there's someone else on here who does it to that I've roleplayed with. He had three clean paragraphs. No issues with clumped goey messes. Really, being on your phone isn't an excuse for ugliness. Sure, I don't do fancy BB code stuff, but even on a phone it's easy enough to write 3-5 nicely spaced paragraphs, especially since you should have word predict which makes things easier.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

I respond on my phone a lot. And there's someone else on here who does it to that I've roleplayed with. He had three clean paragraphs. No issues with clumped goey messes. Really, being on your phone isn't an excuse for ugliness. Sure, I don't do fancy BB code stuff, but even on a phone it's easy enough to write 3-5 nicely spaced paragraphs, especially since you should have word predict which makes things easier.

Hm, then I stand corrected.

I strictly write posts on my laptop because I know I can't do it on a phone. Kudos to those that can.

 

[salty_ moustachio]

Hm, then I stand corrected.

I strictly write posts on my laptop because I know I can't do it on a phone. Kudos to those that can.

I'm out a lot and it is frustrating when I know it'll be hours until I'll be home and there's posts sitting there waiting for me. Ah, the perils of being in a different timezone.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

I'm out a lot and it is frustrating when I know it'll be hours until I'll be home and there's posts sitting there waiting for me. Ah, the perils of being in a different timezone.

I feel your pain. There's no need to rush. The people worth responding to are the ones willing to wait.

 

[salty_ moustachio]

I feel your pain. There's no need to rush. The people worth responding to are the ones willing to wait.

They might want to wait, but I don't. Haha. Maybe that's part of the problem.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

They might want to wait, but I don't. Haha. Maybe that's part of the problem.

lol. I see. In that case, I wish you the best, for I have no advice to best soothe impatience.

I'm the type that can't write a good post unless I'm relaxed, in my room, and with my laptop in front of me. I also spend a good 5 or 10 minutes meditating on what I want to write before I do so. Then, depending on the time, I proof-read.

 

[salty_ moustachio]

I'm the type that can't write a good post unless I'm relaxed, in my room, and with my laptop in front of me. I also spend a good 5 or 10 minutes meditating on what I want to write before I do so. Then, depending on the time, I proof-read.

We're opposites. I find it more authentic (to me) if I just jump in and write how the character would respond with no thought about it. Sometimes I proof-read but if the RP partner is online, then it's likely too late for that once I've pressed 'send'. Eep.

 

[BackSet]

I’ll admit, sometimes I cluster paragraphs together into one paragraph. But, honestly, that’s nor me being lazy, that’s me not knowing where to cut the paragraph off so I panick and just shove it all together because I’m really self concious about my writing ability.

That’s only half the time though. The other half is multiple paragraphs that cut off at points that make sense sometimes but not others.

 

[Idea]

"One paragraph per idea" was exactly what I was taught about them in school, and I've taken that to heart. However, I often still make massive paragraphs at times, with long continuous strings of text. It's not just me either: I often read chapters like that in books and texts of various kinds.

There are many goals which I seek when I make a longer pragraph: I want to set some kind of atmosphere, press an intense idea or linger on some thought. Sometimes I simply have something very detailed to describe, a long line of text to go through, or a very rapidly moving scene that appears to only take an instant (short sentences long paragraph in that last case). I make longer paragraphs because I don't want to communicate simply a sequence of events, I want to communicate an experience for those are the things that set the stage for everything else in my posts.

If I had to throw a guess out there as to why make a large paragraph in general, that's because when you move from one paragraph to the next you are in a sense creating a disconnect. You are forcing the reader to artificially pause from line of text to another in a way that a simple dot simply wouldn't be able to. This is, I imagine, what helps paragraphs be dividers between themes or ideas. That said, it also means something else which can easily be observed: A paragraph is still linked to the previous idea, but it offers new elements that shift the focus on some big or little way. How does this create fewer, larger paragraphs? Well, it means that UNLESS you want to move on to a new topic, you should remain on the same paragraph. Note that it doesn't have to be a completely new topic, it could just be a new idea or perspective on the previous topic, but the important thing is, paragraphs should not be abused either:

If on one end there are clusterfucks of massive barely readable walls of text, on the other end there are texts that read like Siri dictating the news from the sheer amount of unecessary paragraphs. As with anything, a good balance that matches the current scene, setting and so on is important and though there certainly are leanings, reality isn't so simple that it can ever be reduced to extremes.

Not that anyone was saying to go for the extremes, but some thoughts are better said out loud, so they are kept in mind moving forward.

Hope this is helpful and that maybe it helps ease some tension regarding writers who felt insecure about the paragraph thing.

 

[Shuusuke]

I used to write long paragraphs, and while I break them up more now, it still doesn't reach the point of 1~2 sentences per paragraph. But I think that's not really necessary. It might look good when characters are having fast-paced conversations (and I believe part of the intent in breaking it up that much is to reinforce that one of the characters is displeased with the subject, along with "replied sharply" and "said stiffly", etc.) or an action scene is happening, sure, but not always, even in those situations.

RPing is different from a novel -- you'd expect a post to be in one character's point of view exclusively. Conversations don't happen all in one post (not counting with NPCs) either. People usually write more about what the character is feeling or thinking, to avoid having nothing other than a one-line reply to something another character said, resulting in a somewhat bland back-and-forth, and possibly feeling out-of-place if it doesn't link to the rest of the post.

Regardless, "an idea per paragraph" seems like a good instruction. Makes it feel like different scenes, although they're usually longer than the quoted example, depending on what's being described, for example if a character is analyzing a situation or a location, and especially if the writer likes to use many words.

 

[Whisker]

I am the king of white space. I cannot deal with clumped space like that.

 

[TheDarkLord]

Usually when I see people roleplay with clustered paragraphs I run for the hills because it's a sign of poor writing ability in my eyes.

But I'm a snob like that.

TLDR amirite?

 

[salty_ moustachio]

TLDR amirite?

This guy reddits.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

People like to organize their ideas differently. Writing is a creative endeavor. There are rules of course. But you'll also notice in novels that not all rules are followed. But can start a sentence. Fragments are used when it sounds right to the writer. The flow of ideas isn't limited to what's easier for readers to read necessarily. It's about how the writer wants to communicate to their audience. That's my opinion as a writer.

As a roleplayer, I go under the mindset that if I can get the gist of the post, I can respond to it. If I can't understand the post at all, I tag the player. I don't bother trying to correct their writing. Not all roleplayers are writers. Therefore they aren't going to care about missing a period or two. For text walls, I skim to get the gist of what I should respond to. Excessively long and flowery posts may make me skim as well. Nothing personal. It's just I don't always have the time to sit down and decipher/fully read posts that go off on too many thought tangents. I do make an effort tho.

 

[salty_ moustachio]

not all rules are followe

There is a simple unwritten rule though: don't make it ugly.

 

[Idea]

There is a simple unwritten rule though: don't make it ugly.

Is it really so?
What is "ugly" then?

If you take any particular, concrete rule, what happens is there are always exceptions.

If instead, you define ugly as whatever the reader finds it's ugly (or the author) then there is no rule at all, because it's terms don't have a single general application or restriction.


And this is not even counting some stylistic tricks, many of which found in horror novels, which specifically try to make it ugly