QuirkyAngel
White Masquerade's Blue Oni
Lol. I'm unaware of that rule, but I can imagine editors having it. Teachers as well.
Other The 'Paragraph Problem'
- Thread starter Birdsie
- Start date
Lol. I'm unaware of that rule, but I can imagine editors having it. Teachers as well.
BackSet
Ray of Sunshine
“Ugly”is relative.
NoviceOfRoleplay
One Thousand Club
I mean the thing is J.K. Rowling has the benefit as being the only writer and controlling multiple characters.
What I found in "Simple" roleplays (ohhh the days of old RPNation") writers didn't put much thought in posts beside some exceptions. You can kinda trust a Detailed Roleplayer, even if details are a bit extra, will try to milk every drop of a circumstance which is helpful for others to build up ideas to use their characters. Roleplaying is ideas building on each other, when roleplaying with site, having a thick foundation seem preferable.
What I found in "Simple" roleplays (ohhh the days of old RPNation") writers didn't put much thought in posts beside some exceptions. You can kinda trust a Detailed Roleplayer, even if details are a bit extra, will try to milk every drop of a circumstance which is helpful for others to build up ideas to use their characters. Roleplaying is ideas building on each other, when roleplaying with site, having a thick foundation seem preferable.
AnxiousQuiet
New Member
My 2 cents. I personally prefer thoughtful paragraphing and believe that paragraphs are tools to help portray ideas. This means both long and short paragraphs as long as they are done with purpose. My personal pet peeve is people cramming dialogue into one paragraph. For the love of all that is good, changing dialogue colors is not an adequate substitute for proper paragraphing. This mostly goes for people whose characters are talking to an NPC, and the whole dialogue is just in one paragraph.
On the other hand, paragraphing is a tool that different writers can use in different ways. Many times, it really is a judgment call. Creative writing also probably isn’t an active goal in schools, and academic writing is much more prevalent in the place where we’re suppose to learn how to write. It’s easy to see how it carries over.
The solution for this, like the solution to so many problems, is to communicate. Tell the people you are roleplaying with if you notice them doing it. Maybe they just don’t know. Maybe they know and are making stylistic choices. We should also keep in mind that for lots of us, roleplaying is a hobby. Not everybody is an aspiring writer. And maybe that means that we’re not a proper fit as a roleplay partner with everybody, but that’s okay.
On the other hand, paragraphing is a tool that different writers can use in different ways. Many times, it really is a judgment call. Creative writing also probably isn’t an active goal in schools, and academic writing is much more prevalent in the place where we’re suppose to learn how to write. It’s easy to see how it carries over.
The solution for this, like the solution to so many problems, is to communicate. Tell the people you are roleplaying with if you notice them doing it. Maybe they just don’t know. Maybe they know and are making stylistic choices. We should also keep in mind that for lots of us, roleplaying is a hobby. Not everybody is an aspiring writer. And maybe that means that we’re not a proper fit as a roleplay partner with everybody, but that’s okay.
BackSet
Ray of Sunshine
Also, you’re not actually allowed to have dialouge in one paragraph based off of the rules of basic writing. Each piece of dialouge get’s it’s own paragraph. No exceptions.
Bannanachair King
New Member
It's all psychological. Computer screens are wider than books, and so more stuff fits on one line. A paragraph in a book tends to be lots of lines. Therefore, a "paragraph" on the computer should also be lots of lines.
eclipsa
faerie sightings
i often run into this problem because i feel like i have too many paragraphs and then try to figure out how to put them together to make it a little less long. mostly just in roleplay though, everything else i follow a better structure. roleplay is supposed to be fun not strict so i'm less bothered.
Mr.Issimo
New Member
I have also noticed this tendency to write in very long paragraphs that contain the actions of multiple people or express multiple ideas. I will be the first to admit that I recognize the visceral satisfaction that comes from a large, solid chunk of writing. However, I am very strict about keeping my paragraphs focused generally around an idea or the actions of a single person, so that my paragraphs tend to be rather short almost to the point of choppiness. I will give an example of some writing I did (not for an RP but on my own):
“Children!” Our mother cries as she turns from brushing old charcoal from the hearth, waving her broom at us. “How can ye be doing all this clapping and yelling when yer suppos’d to be cleaning?”
I point one grubby finger at my sister. “Sarah’s not cleaning. She doesn’t even have a cloth.”
She folds her arms and gives me a dirty look. “I don’t suppose’m old enough to clean. And look! Ye haven’t even budged from those same two inches all this time!”
A reader commented that the flow of this section felt rather abrupt and choppy, so I need to edit it to smooth the transition from action to action.
However, I find that one of the most powerful ways to use paragraph length is to modulate the pace of your writing. When the stakes are low, the paragraphs should be shorter to move along through the plot more quickly (as in the example given above). When the stakes are higher, the paragraph lengths should be longer to suspend your reader in the moment of truth. This change in length should NOT be accomplished by squeezing together what by rights should be multiple paragraphs with separate ideas and subjects of action. Instead, you should adjust your paragraph length by changing how lavish you are in your detail. I will give as an example a high-stakes situation in which I use tremendous detail to increase the paragraph length and slow down the pace (this is when the forge that he, his mother, and his sister are in collapses).
The falling tree crashes into the side of the shack with a horrific noise, sending splinters flying. It explodes through the metal-burdened wall like a hammer through a box, right above Sarah and Mama’s heads. I only see their silhouettes through a cloud of dust and smoke as our mother ducks with one upraised arm, pulling Sarah underneath her with the other.
I just manage to scramble underneath the work-table as the swords, shields, and guns fall with clattering bangs! from the collapsing roof and walls. I curl in as compact a ball as I can, my head squeezed in my arms, as I feel various metal and wooden objects roll and pile up against my sides. I hear someone screaming. There is the sound of shattering glass as the lanterns are crushed or fall to the floor, then a whoomp. A flickering heat caresses my fingertips.
Do note that I, at least, consider these paragraphs to be long.
“Children!” Our mother cries as she turns from brushing old charcoal from the hearth, waving her broom at us. “How can ye be doing all this clapping and yelling when yer suppos’d to be cleaning?”
I point one grubby finger at my sister. “Sarah’s not cleaning. She doesn’t even have a cloth.”
She folds her arms and gives me a dirty look. “I don’t suppose’m old enough to clean. And look! Ye haven’t even budged from those same two inches all this time!”
A reader commented that the flow of this section felt rather abrupt and choppy, so I need to edit it to smooth the transition from action to action.
However, I find that one of the most powerful ways to use paragraph length is to modulate the pace of your writing. When the stakes are low, the paragraphs should be shorter to move along through the plot more quickly (as in the example given above). When the stakes are higher, the paragraph lengths should be longer to suspend your reader in the moment of truth. This change in length should NOT be accomplished by squeezing together what by rights should be multiple paragraphs with separate ideas and subjects of action. Instead, you should adjust your paragraph length by changing how lavish you are in your detail. I will give as an example a high-stakes situation in which I use tremendous detail to increase the paragraph length and slow down the pace (this is when the forge that he, his mother, and his sister are in collapses).
The falling tree crashes into the side of the shack with a horrific noise, sending splinters flying. It explodes through the metal-burdened wall like a hammer through a box, right above Sarah and Mama’s heads. I only see their silhouettes through a cloud of dust and smoke as our mother ducks with one upraised arm, pulling Sarah underneath her with the other.
I just manage to scramble underneath the work-table as the swords, shields, and guns fall with clattering bangs! from the collapsing roof and walls. I curl in as compact a ball as I can, my head squeezed in my arms, as I feel various metal and wooden objects roll and pile up against my sides. I hear someone screaming. There is the sound of shattering glass as the lanterns are crushed or fall to the floor, then a whoomp. A flickering heat caresses my fingertips.
Do note that I, at least, consider these paragraphs to be long.
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AnonyMouse
Senior Member
I find a lot of beginning writers, and even some longtime veterans, spend too much time looking for magical numbers and formulae. How many words should a sentence have? How many sentences should a paragraph have? The answer is, "as many as it needs to get its point across." Stop counting. We're writers, not mathematicians.
I only obey the writing rules which serve my needs in the moment. I know the rules, but if breaking them will achieve the desired effect, I'll do it without hesitation. But that comes with experience. Years of reading and being read by others will give you a feel of what your readers expect and what will happen when you subvert those expectations. In the meantime, just write, pay attention to how others respond to your writing, and adjust/learn/experiment accordingly.
I only obey the writing rules which serve my needs in the moment. I know the rules, but if breaking them will achieve the desired effect, I'll do it without hesitation. But that comes with experience. Years of reading and being read by others will give you a feel of what your readers expect and what will happen when you subvert those expectations. In the meantime, just write, pay attention to how others respond to your writing, and adjust/learn/experiment accordingly.
Sara Sidereal
a bat
I wish every rp site would have stuff like this on the front page, along with their / there / they're, its / it's, affect (noun) / affect (verb) / effect (noun) / effect (verb), explanation of the conditional tense (would), and a closing paragraph explaining that you should never use "see / seen" when talking about causality
Birdsie
The God-Emperor of Mankind
Yup.
weldherwings
◉-◉
With paragraphs, I've always viewed them as if I was writing an essay (maybe that's my high school literature teacher drilling it into me). It starts off with a statement, then extends on the sentence, before a closing statement. If I write any massive paragraphs, its because I'm explaining locations, memories or feelings with depth that I feel wouldn't be understood with just one or two sentences.
(and after writing this, I just realised that this is a prime example of how I write my paragraphs hahah! Look at it - my thought on paragraphs, me explaining my views, and then me closing my views ahhaha)
(and after writing this, I just realised that this is a prime example of how I write my paragraphs hahah! Look at it - my thought on paragraphs, me explaining my views, and then me closing my views ahhaha)
Sara Sidereal
a bat
We're not calling for a limit on sentences, just asking for more line breaks.
weldherwings
◉-◉
Yeah I know
I'm relating back to when people have like a thousand different things happen all at once in one paragraph. First their character is waking up, and then by the end of the paragraph, they've discovered they're adopted or something. I'm a massive fan of writing flow.Goinggoinggone
New Member
I have the opposite problem with writing too choppy. There's a balance somewhere, but some of it is a stylistic choice. It also depends on the tone you're conveying, and how the character is processing things. A+ topic and A+ examples in the original post; you have to think about what the point of a scene is, what you're trying to get across to the audience.
Sleek
Show me a good time, Jack!
I don't often write with a lot of line breaks, usually my lines are anywhere between 2-4 sentances before I break the line. In a roleplay, it's a bit......subjective. How well YOU can personally get something across is completely different from person to person and can mean anything from OP's original example to tightly clustered packets of lines. I prefer the latter simply because it feels more convenient and saves a bit of space. The only issue I have with it is when lines exceed 5+, though that may just be my own personal taste as I have issues focusing past 4 lines.
BasiliskVeranda
80s Trash
If the idea requires more sentences and more descriptions, then the 1 idea per paragraph may be a large paragraph, to be plain. Word count, sentence length, amount of sentences, etc, doesn't really matter.
For reference, I'm a copywriter by trade, and I'm firmly in the "DO THE LINE BREAKS" camp. So I agree with this, but also, sometimes paragraphs are long...it's just what happens. I break up my work a lot in copywriting because it's for a different niche—internet users with really crap attention spans. But where roleplaying is concerned, I couldn't care any less about how chunky my work is. If it encapsulates the idea, I'm solid. I often apologize for being so long-winded, but this is the only place I get to do that. Or when I'm working on novels or short stories, of course.
I personally don't think we need to police paragraph lengths or their structures. We're writers. We can break the rules. Long, short, choppy, beefy—it's all good, famola.
When you start getting all up in what people should be doing with their paragraphs, just being legit here, that gets pretty condescending. It can also scare off writers who are just trying to work on their craft, and have fun. It makes people feel needlessly self-conscious. Go putz around in some Russian masterworks. Their shit was dense AF but they're still considered masters of their craft, regardless of how beefy their paragraphs were.
I don't think we have a paragraph problem. I think people sometimes need help with narrative, mood, tone, and diction. But that comes with practice!
Some of my favorite writers literally threw out 5 sentences maximum per post waaay back in the day, and were grammar blind. But they were specific, descriptive and really plot driven. They threw out tons of curveballs, took risks, and made amazing things happen. So it really didn't matter. That RPer wove a fantastic story, at a break-neck pace. I'm still in awe, since I know I'm long-winded AF.
Some of the worst writers I've ever run into follow everything by the book. X amount of lines, X grammar, X this, X that. They ended up making boring characters, boring posts, and creating boring plot points. They also were sticklers for "teh roolz" and made everyone else feel like shite for not doing things "their way".
So, I guess, in a nutshell:
I don't like people policing how others write. And that's the problem, not "paragraphs", imho.
For reference, I'm a copywriter by trade, and I'm firmly in the "DO THE LINE BREAKS" camp. So I agree with this, but also, sometimes paragraphs are long...it's just what happens. I break up my work a lot in copywriting because it's for a different niche—internet users with really crap attention spans. But where roleplaying is concerned, I couldn't care any less about how chunky my work is. If it encapsulates the idea, I'm solid. I often apologize for being so long-winded, but this is the only place I get to do that. Or when I'm working on novels or short stories, of course.
I personally don't think we need to police paragraph lengths or their structures. We're writers. We can break the rules. Long, short, choppy, beefy—it's all good, famola.
When you start getting all up in what people should be doing with their paragraphs, just being legit here, that gets pretty condescending. It can also scare off writers who are just trying to work on their craft, and have fun. It makes people feel needlessly self-conscious. Go putz around in some Russian masterworks. Their shit was dense AF but they're still considered masters of their craft, regardless of how beefy their paragraphs were.
I don't think we have a paragraph problem. I think people sometimes need help with narrative, mood, tone, and diction. But that comes with practice!
Some of my favorite writers literally threw out 5 sentences maximum per post waaay back in the day, and were grammar blind. But they were specific, descriptive and really plot driven. They threw out tons of curveballs, took risks, and made amazing things happen. So it really didn't matter. That RPer wove a fantastic story, at a break-neck pace. I'm still in awe, since I know I'm long-winded AF.
Some of the worst writers I've ever run into follow everything by the book. X amount of lines, X grammar, X this, X that. They ended up making boring characters, boring posts, and creating boring plot points. They also were sticklers for "teh roolz" and made everyone else feel like shite for not doing things "their way".
So, I guess, in a nutshell:
I don't like people policing how others write. And that's the problem, not "paragraphs", imho.
Malozing
Mal
Only when I get yelled at for not having five sentences or more in each paragraph.
Tabby
Derpsichord
Excellent post overall, but I especially agree with those comments. Trying to proscribe one-size-fits-all limits for how people SHOULD write is incredibly short sighted and in my eyes is a sign of someone who has no business giving advice at all - such a huge part of writing IS in breaking or subverting 'the rules' to define your own style, with success stories ranging from the extremely brief to the verbose.When you start getting all up in what people should be doing with their paragraphs, just being legit here, that gets pretty condescending. It can also scare off writers who are just trying to work on their craft, and have fun. It makes people feel needlessly self-conscious. Go putz around in some Russian masterworks. Their shit was dense AF but they're still considered masters of their craft, regardless of how beefy their paragraphs were.
I don't think we have a paragraph problem. I think people sometimes need help with narrative, mood, tone, and diction. But that comes with practice!
Some of my favorite writers literally threw out 5 sentences maximum per post waaay back in the day, and were grammar blind. But they were specific, descriptive and really plot driven. They threw out tons of curveballs, took risks, and made amazing things happen. So it really didn't matter. That RPer wove a fantastic story, at a break-neck pace. I'm still in awe, since I know I'm long-winded AF.
Heck, two of my favorite RP buddies each fall on one end of that spectrum.
One has terrible spelling/grammar and tends towards pretty short posts (~150-250 words) but is extremely creative, possibly the single best RPer I've played with, has a very dynamic sense of action that fits very well into his writing style; just everything about his posts gives me plenty to respond to and react to.
The other best RPer I know tends to go long - rarely do I see anything below 400 words and 600-1000 is pretty common. He is a FAR better technical writer and still an excellent RPer, but more focused on cerebral pursuits so to speak; a lot of thought and feelings in posts that help you see everything from that character's perspective. And unlike many long-posters he doesn't godmod 30 things at once, just a lot of detail, but without TOO much detail to where it falls into purple prose.
So when I see garbage advice about how everyone should write short paragraphs or follow some delusional ruleset about paragraphs I get a little nettled, honestly. Because there are PLENTY of shitty RPers who offer no useful detail for RP partners and plenty of self-absorbed assholes who write way too long just to jerk themselves off. The quality of writing is an ephemeral concept that is really hard to lock down to a very specific, concrete set of rules.
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BasiliskVeranda
80s Trash
Thanks mate! Just wanted to share my piece. We're in this for fun
I got wicked nettled too. This coming from a long-winded AF writer who probably does exactly what you're saying, except I try to provide useful details. I know I write too much, because I'm just so frucking into it.
There's no "god of RP" that dictates how someone should write. Yeah, okay, let's try to use proper punctuation, capitalization, and grammar. But let's all not pretend that the long-winded ones, or the ones that are grammar nazis, are actually inherently any good.
I read a post one time that described a goddamn lampshade in such detail and literally had nothing else going on in it. And it was 6k words or some shit. Weew! :|
yanastyboi
Member
I agree with you both . . . but one thing I do hope people take away from this thread, if anything, is please separate your dialog if two or more people are talking! Only thing I ask, because I can handle a big paragraph, even if I gotta highlight a line so my brain can keep track of where I am (I do that with novels already) . . . but lord help me my tiny ape brain gets confused when dialog is lumped into one paragraph. @___@'Thanks mate! Just wanted to share my piece. We're in this for fun
I got wicked nettled too. This coming from a long-winded AF writer who probably does exactly what you're saying, except I try to provide useful details. I know I write too much, because I'm just so frucking into it.
There's no "god of RP" that dictates how someone should write. Yeah, okay, let's try to use proper punctuation, capitalization, and grammar. But let's all not pretend that the long-winded ones, or the ones that are grammar nazis, are actually inherently any good.
I read a post one time that described a goddamn lampshade in such detail and literally had nothing else going on in it. And it was 6k words or some shit. Weew! :|
rae2nerdy
left site
Or to put it more simply still give/take feedback with grace.
If an issue bothers you feel free to bring it up. But don’t act like it’s a direct attack on the English language of someone does something you don’t like.
I mix up homonyms a lot. Like I pretty much tell people off the jump if not having the right their is going to kill this roleplay for you than we need to part ways. I am not going to get it right and you harassing me over it just makes me upset.
On the other hand I’ve written with people who had their own issues. They would place periods in the middle of thoughts. It was something they couldn’t help and they warned me about it beforehand. So I just ignored the incorrect grammar or asked directly if I was confused.
To use the above example if dialogue is buried I will ask my partner directly : hey can you make these separate? I am getting a little confused on what’s happening.
I find in general just asking nicely solves most problems that are unintentional.
Like no one is making their posts deliberately go be unreadable so just asking for a bit of an edit is usually fine.
If an issue bothers you feel free to bring it up. But don’t act like it’s a direct attack on the English language of someone does something you don’t like.
I mix up homonyms a lot. Like I pretty much tell people off the jump if not having the right their is going to kill this roleplay for you than we need to part ways. I am not going to get it right and you harassing me over it just makes me upset.
On the other hand I’ve written with people who had their own issues. They would place periods in the middle of thoughts. It was something they couldn’t help and they warned me about it beforehand. So I just ignored the incorrect grammar or asked directly if I was confused.
To use the above example if dialogue is buried I will ask my partner directly : hey can you make these separate? I am getting a little confused on what’s happening.
I find in general just asking nicely solves most problems that are unintentional.
Like no one is making their posts deliberately go be unreadable so just asking for a bit of an edit is usually fine.
KindOfStupid
Traps are gay
S
Same, but I’m most likely guilty.
