Opinion Teacher-Student relations.

[rae2nerdy]

I disagree. The OP doesn't insinuate a child and adult having a relationship. Student doesn't equal child. I'm a college student, which is still a student by definition. My instructor is still my teacher, regardless of semantics. I think it's the fault of the OP for being slightly vague and the posters assuming it means one way when it is clearly more broad in its wording.

I have gone into this at length from multiple standpoints. Starting with simple matter of adult x minor all the way through why a power-imbalance relationship requiring one or both members to quit their jobs is a bad idea.

So I won't go into that again. If you want to see my indepth thoughts on the matter you can read my posts.

I will say this - ADULT is not the same as AGE OF CONSENT. All age of consent means is that the law won't come after you if someone is XX age. And that varies wildly between countries. In America for instance depending on your state the age of legal consent is between 16 - 18 years old. I don't know where you live so I can't speak to what your age of consent laws are.

But just because the law says at 16 you can have sex with an adult person doesn't make you an adult. Heck turning 18 doesn't automatically make you a more mature person capable of making life altering decisions with an eye to how they will effect you years down the road.

There isn't conceivably that much difference between someone at 16 - 17 - 18. Yes legally speaking they might have more responsibilities but that doesn't make them more mature or more fit to be in a relationship with someone several years their senior.

To go back to my sister as an example.

I don't care what the law says if one of her high school teachers quit their job and tried to date her at 17 ( or 16 or 18 ) I would have a very serious problem with that. If they attempted to force her to quit her education so they could date I would have a problem with that as well.

Further when she goes to college sometime next year and starts having college style professors. I would also not be okay with one of them dating her or forcing her to quit her education so they could date ( and I don't give a damn if she's 18 or 24 ).

Because it is still a relationship in which
A - one person is choosing to terminate their means of employment just for a romantic relationship that might not even work out. So that tells me they are very immature at best , predatory at worst.

B - someone is pressuring my sister ( or any student in their care ) to quit their education just so they can have a relationship. Again which might not last. But they're still going to have a lot of real world consequences. I mean high school yeah you have the messy legal side of things potentially but you also don't pay for it. In college you are paying for your education so making someone quit their education means you are basically wasting THEIR money , their families money, or a scholarship opportunity.

So ironically given the OP's original wording switching this to a college setting really just makes the relationship itself worse. I mean sure we're not all arguing over what constitutes a child and what doesn't. But it just makes the whole relationship seem a lot more stupid in my opinion.

Because really - any relationship that requires one party to quit their place of employment OR the other party to tank their education isn't going to seem rainbows and sunshine to me.

I don't know maybe I'm too old to get the nuance.

 

[Project Naiad]

Because it is still a relationship in which
A - one person is choosing to terminate their means of employment just for a romantic relationship that might not even work out. So that tells me they are very immature at best , predatory at worst.

B - someone is pressuring my sister ( or any student in their care ) to quit their education just so they can have a relationship. Again which might not last. But they're still going to have a lot of real world consequences. I mean high school yeah you have the messy legal side of things potentially but you also don't pay for it. In college you are paying for your education so making someone quit their education means you are basically wasting THEIR money , their families money, or a scholarship opportunity.

But Op never specified that the student was forced into leaving school, or that the teacher quit because he wanted to be in that relationship. It's an assumption.
The teacher could have found a better job, the student could have graduated or quit school for personal reasons.
In that case (if the student was of age) there would be no problems in my eyes.
If the student was 17 Id have mixed feelings about it (although I still wouldn't consider it pedophilia).
But yeah as you said 18 years doesn't really change much. People never really stop maturing, so it really depends from person to person in my eyes. You can find incredibly mature 18y Olds and childish irresponsible 40 y/os.

 

[Autumn McJavabean]

I have gone into this at length from multiple standpoints. Starting with simple matter of adult x minor all the way through why a power-imbalance relationship requiring one or both members to quit their jobs is a bad idea.

Wonderful.... No one said anything about a minor save for the 17 year old and nothing you said here shows that it's wrong.

So I won't go into that again. If you want to see my indepth thoughts on the matter you can read my posts.

Did, don't agree fully.

I will say this - ADULT is not the same as AGE OF CONSENT. All age of consent means is that the law won't come after you if someone is XX age. And that varies wildly between countries. In America for instance depending on your state the age of legal consent is between 16 - 18 years old. I don't know where you live so I can't speak to what your age of consent laws are.

Who said anything about age of consent and adult are the same? An adult is legally an adult at 18 in America and that is also the age of consent as you said, depending where you live, which is exactly what I said already. In come countries, since not everyone lives in the US, can be as low as 13 or 14.

But just because the law says at 16 you can have sex with an adult person doesn't make you an adult. Heck turning 18 doesn't automatically make you a more mature person capable of making life altering decisions with an eye to how they will effect you years down the road.

Adult =/= Mature

Most people can make life changing decisions at 18. Most, before. What you're talking about has nothing to do with maturity but all to do with intellect and awareness, which is taught and learned, not gained at some magic age. You can have a 16 year old fully capable of that.

There isn't conceivably that much difference between someone at 16 - 17 - 18. Yes legally speaking they might have more responsibilities but that doesn't make them more mature or more fit to be in a relationship with someone several years their senior.

Yes, but it also doesn't mean they can't. What logical reason can they not?

I don't care what the law says if one of her high school teachers quit their job and tried to date her at 17 ( or 16 or 18 ) I would have a very serious problem with that. If they attempted to force her to quit her education so they could date I would have a problem with that as well.

You talk about me needing to read your post but it's literally as if you didn't read either mine or the OP and simply went off an a knee-jerk reaction. The subject isn't even about minors, mate. This can be about a TEACHER quitting, too. Go back to my post above. You're making all kinds of assumptions founded by nothing but your own mine making them up. Talking about what is right or wrong when no one insinuated otherwise.

Further when she goes to college sometime next year and starts having college style professors. I would also not be okay with one of them dating her or forcing her to quit her education so they could date ( and I don't give a damn if she's 18 or 24 ).

W..Where are you getting this notion of it being a "her" or the instructor being the one forcing anything? Have you ever heard of love? Have you ever seen first-hand a teacher/student relationship? I'm guessing you never have because your charges make no sense, at all.

Because it is still a relationship in which
A - one person is choosing to terminate their means of employment just for a romantic relationship that might not even work out. So that tells me they are very immature at best , predatory at worst.

Not predatory at all. Please prove how it is.

Assuming this ever happened, the two would have talked about it, not just up-right quite.

B - someone is pressuring my sister ( or any student in their care ) to quit their education just so they can have a relationship. Again which might not last. But they're still going to have a lot of real world consequences. I mean high school yeah you have the messy legal side of things potentially but you also don't pay for it. In college you are paying for your education so making someone quit their education means you are basically wasting THEIR money , their families money, or a scholarship opportunity.

No one said anything about pressuring. If anything they can just take another class. It's not hard to drop one instructor for another. You're making some pretty wild accusations and assumptions. So the rest of this is absolutely not worthy or continuing. Also, no one said anything about high school.

So ironically given the OP's original wording switching this to a college setting really just makes the relationship itself worse. I mean sure we're not all arguing over what constitutes a child and what doesn't. But it just makes the whole relationship seem a lot more stupid in my opinion.

No, YOUR wording makes it worse because you're the one talking about people being forced or pressured as if they were approached and had no communicated or thought about it. You have these extreme views, these extreme dichotomies that are not likely to happen in a world more nuanced than this.

Um, I am since someone charged it as pedophilic, which is childistic in nature when that isn't even the case.

I think your absurd extremes are stupid.

Because really - any relationship that requires one party to quit their place of employment OR the other party to tank their education isn't going to seem rainbows and sunshine to me.

This could happen after one has left or is planning on leaving. This can happen before a term begins.

I don't know maybe I'm too old to get the nuance.

Maybe you are... IF you notice you're not getting the nuance than maybe you're in the wrong. Life i more nuanced.

 

[rae2nerdy]

But Op never specified that the student was forced into leaving school, or that the teacher quit because he wanted to be in that relationship. It's an assumption.
The teacher could have found a better job, the student could have graduated or quit school for personal reasons.
In that case (if the student was of age) there would be no problems in my eyes.
If the student was 17 Id have mixed feelings about it (although I still wouldn't consider it pedophilia).
But yeah as you said 18 years doesn't really change much. People never really stop maturing, so it really depends from person to person in my eyes. You can find incredibly mature 18y Olds and childish irresponsible 40 y/os.

And I think that might be the problem. Starchild if you could maybe expand your question a little so that we're not all arguing semantics and give a better opinion.

Now Project Naiad I think the problem is that you and I see student teacher relationships in two fundamentally different ways.

You see them as romantic ( or at least with the potential to be romantic if the proper qualifiers are met )

I see them as a power imbalance where one person is taking advantage of the other.

Now when you consider this we're really not going to agree. Because there is not going to be any situation where i'm like - Oh yeah it's totally cool that Person A is taking advantage of Person B. That's an A+ relationship that I totally get behind.

I mean I just don't see the romance in the situation and there isn't any combination of circumstances that are going to make me see it differently.

Please note I'm talking specifically about - Student ( High School ) x Teacher - as that is the one part of the OP's response I think we can agree on. They definitely specified high school in their opening comment

I mean Student ( College ) x Teacher I'm not personally comfortable with because I still see it as a power imbalance and one person taking advantage of another. But I will at least allow that it's theoretically involving two consenting adults who can do whatever they want.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Wonderful.... No one said anything about a minor save for the 17 year old and nothing you said here shows that it's wrong.



Did, don't agree fully.



Who said anything about age of consent and adult are the same? An adult is legally an adult at 18 in America and that is also the age of consent as you said, depending where you live, which is exactly what I said already. In come countries, since not everyone lives in the US, can be as low as 13 or 14.



Adult =/= Mature

Most people can make life changing decisions at 18. Most, before. What you're talking about has nothing to do with maturity but all to do with intellect and awareness, which is taught and learned, not gained at some magic age. You can have a 16 year old fully capable of that.



Yes, but it also doesn't mean they can't. What logical reason can they not?





You talk about me needing to read your post but it's literally as if you didn't read either mine or the OP and simply went off an a knee-jerk reaction. The subject isn't even about minors, mate. This can be about a TEACHER quitting, too. Go back to my post above. You're making all kinds of assumptions founded by nothing but your own mine making them up. Talking about what is right or wrong when no one insinuated otherwise.



W..Where are you getting this notion of it being a "her" or the instructor being the one forcing anything? Have you ever heard of love? Have you ever seen first-hand a teacher/student relationship? I'm guessing you never have because your charges make no sense, at all.



Not predatory at all. Please prove how it is.

Assuming this ever happened, the two would have talked about it, not just up-right quite.



No one said anything about pressuring. If anything they can just take another class. It's not hard to drop one instructor for another. You're making some pretty wild accusations and assumptions. So the rest of this is absolutely not worthy or continuing. Also, no one said anything about high school.



No, YOUR wording makes it worse because you're the one talking about people being forced or pressured as if they were approached and had no communicated or thought about it. You have these extreme views, these extreme dichotomies that are not likely to happen in a world more nuanced than this.

Um, I am since someone charged it as pedophilic, which is childistic in nature when that isn't even the case.

I think your absurd extremes are stupid.

This could happen after one has left or is planning on leaving. This can happen before a term begins.


Maybe you are... IF you notice you're not getting the nuance than maybe you're in the wrong. Life i more nuanced.

Please see above. I see the relationship fundamentally as a power imbalance where one person takes advantage of another. You do not.

Both opinions are valid. I mean I am aware that adult x teacher is a popular trope in literacy and romance. So there are plenty of people who view the relationship as at least potentially romantic. I do no not.

As to the knee jerk reaction yes it absolutely is a knee jerk reaction. Because I have siblings ( whom I obviously love dearly and want the best for ) that are in the age range that would fit the opening scenario.

If one of their teachers tried to date them ( when they're still in high school ) or tried to interfere with their education in any way I would be understandably furious. It isn't some abstract scenario to me it is something that could at least theoretically happen to people I love very much. So no maybe I'm not going to be the most objective person when it comes to this question. Maybe I'll go a little too Sister Bear and be rabidly against it.

Maybe in time I'll see the nuance and the potential for romance in the scenario.

Also no I don't feel romantic feelings to other people. So perhaps that could invalidate my opinion to an extent ( and you're welcome to take that as you will ).

So again as I stated above I am not coming at this from a place where I assume it's a romance. I am coming at this from a place where I am looking at the few concrete parts of the statement and building an argument based on how I would feel if my loved ones were placed in that situation.

And again the only thing we can all be sure on is that the OP was asking specifically about High School Students x Teachers and something about quitting school.

No part of which I think is okay.

 

[Hall Kervean]

I would suggest not.
Why?
1. The nuances are very important here. If the relationship doesn't tiptoe through a minefield, then it goes beyond just being subjectively wrong.
2. The likelihood of someone in that relationship actually developing it beyond "you're hot" "no, you're cute" is very low. Given that most love early in life doesn't work out anyways, the likelihood of a teacher and a former student being able to develop their relationship is very very low.
3. I highly doubt a teacher quitting her job to date a student would be acceptable to the school (in regards to the student's education, since it's either/or)
4. I highly doubt a student dropping out to date a teacher would be acceptable to the school. (since it's either/or)

All of these are recipes for an unsuccessful relationship in the first place.
The fact that it's such a small number of people who would even fall under this means that the vast majority of these relationships are going to fail.

 

[Project Naiad]

Now Project Naiad I think the problem is that you and I see student teacher relationships in two fundamentally different ways.

You see them as romantic ( or at least with the potential to be romantic if the proper qualifiers are met )

I see them as a power imbalance where one person is taking advantage of the other.

Now when you consider this we're really not going to agree. Because there is not going to be any situation where i'm like - Oh yeah it's totally cool that Person A is taking advantage of Person B. That's an A+ relationship that I totally get behind.

I mean I just don't see the romance in the situation and there isn't any combination of circumstances that are going to make me see it differently.

Please note I'm talking specifically about - Student ( High School ) x Teacher - as that is the one part of the OP's response I think we can agree on. They definitely specified high school in their opening comment

I mean Student ( College ) x Teacher I'm not personally comfortable with because I still see it as a power imbalance and one person taking advantage of another. But I will at least allow that it's theoretically involving two consenting adults who can do whatever they want.

Yeah we're imagining different scenarios (which is why I said this was a sterile conversation earlier). I actually do agree that this type of relationship has the potential to become twisted. I'm simply advocating the fact that it also has the potential to work if both parts are genuinely attracted.

1. The nuances are very important here. If the relationship doesn't tiptoe through a minefield, then it goes beyond just being subjectively wrong.
2. The likelihood of someone in that relationship actually developing it beyond "you're hot" "no, you're cute" is very low. Given that most love early in life doesn't work out anyways, the likelihood of a teacher and a former student being able to develop their relationship is very very low.
3. I highly doubt a teacher quitting her job to date a student would be acceptable to the school (in regards to the student's education, since it's either/or)
4. I highly doubt a student dropping out to date a teacher would be acceptable to the school. (since it's either/or)

1. This only if the student is a minor (which wasn't specified).
2. If people thought like that no one would have to get into a relationship until they're 40? It's not like they are bound to spend a life together, sometimes relationships last and sometimes don't, it's just how it is, but unless they're abusive it doesn't make them less worthy to be lived.
3&4. Once again it is not specified that either the teacher or the student left school or were forced to leave school specifically so that they could be in this relationship.

 

[Hall Kervean]

1. This only if the student is a minor (which wasn't specified).
2. If people thought like that no one would have to get into a relationship until they're 40? It's not like they are bound to spend a life together, sometimes relationships last and sometimes don't, it's just how it is, but unless they're abusive it doesn't make them less worthy to be lived.
3&4. Once again it is not specified that either the teacher or the student left school or were forced to leave school specifically so that they could be in this relationship.

This isn't a debate over a hypothetical scenario. This is a question.
My point is this:
1. No. That's why this is still debate. Outside of the nuance of "are they under eighteen," there's no nuance that stops once they hit 18. The nuances of the age difference (are they too young/old?) The nuances of the nature of their relationship (Strained, abusive, or ordinary?) The nuances of their personalities (Are they manipulative?) are all still at play.
2. That's why this isn't about everybody, this is about the small minority who think they want to be in a relationship with their teacher. Taking THAT into account, the fact that there are very few people who are/want to be in these situations are unlikely to want to develop their relationship. Why? Because they're either a lot older than their students, which means that while their relationship might be healthier through experience their relationship is MUCH more questionable, or they're closer to the same age, at which point no one it's not as questionable but their relationship is still one that, given the age and likelihood of staying together, would be better untouched.
3 and 4 are specifically worded to allow for that scenario and to show how it wouldn't work even if one of them left. They would have to both leave, either graduating or dropping out for the student and quitting for the teacher.

Just so we're clear, I haven't touched on things like a 40 year old falling for their old 46 year old teacher because their age makes it so that the relationship is "___ married _____, who happened to be their teacher" as opposed to "____ married their teacher."

 

[Autumn McJavabean]

Please see above. I see the relationship fundamentally as a power imbalance where one person takes advantage of another. You do not.

Both opinions are valid. I mean I am aware that adult x teacher is a popular trope in literacy and romance. So there are plenty of people who view the relationship as at least potentially romantic. I do no not.

As to the knee jerk reaction yes it absolutely is a knee jerk reaction. Because I have siblings ( whom I obviously love dearly and want the best for ) that are in the age range that would fit the opening scenario.

If one of their teachers tried to date them ( when they're still in high school ) or tried to interfere with their education in any way I would be understandably furious. It isn't some abstract scenario to me it is something that could at least theoretically happen to people I love very much. So no maybe I'm not going to be the most objective person when it comes to this question. Maybe I'll go a little too Sister Bear and be rabidly against it.

Maybe in time I'll see the nuance and the potential for romance in the scenario.

Also no I don't feel romantic feelings to other people. So perhaps that could invalidate my opinion to an extent ( and you're welcome to take that as you will ).

So again as I stated above I am not coming at this from a place where I assume it's a romance. I am coming at this from a place where I am looking at the few concrete parts of the statement and building an argument based on how I would feel if my loved ones were placed in that situation.

And again the only thing we can all be sure on is that the OP was asking specifically about High School Students x Teachers and something about quitting school.

No part of which I think is okay.

I saw above. In fact, I quoted literally everything but your sister's part. As stated, your basis is grounded on something never stated, hence why I do not agree. Do you not see that? You see it as a power imbalance because you assumed the situation without anything to quantify it.

Why? You haven't given a reason save for the extremes.

You have a sibling who is 18+ who may fall in love with their 27 year old instructor? By the way, a knee-jerk reaction is not a good thing. It means you're posting based on emotions, not logic.

Basically most of your arguments are on the basis of "Meh sister could be in this situation!" I get where you're coming from but you're letting your emotion assume things. Simply await for information from the OP because you can't assume someone is being forced to drop out or quit a job. This is where you take a step back and examine yourself.

I don't know how you wouldn't, but that's you. So yes, I would say it nulls some of your perspective, but it doesn't invalidate it.

But you're not. You're not at all. You're assuming with little information. That's like someone seeing what looks like a person flying and saying it's Superman when it could just be a plane.

Where was that clarified?

In fact, the OP said 18-20, meaning not high school.

As for your absurd assertions that are indeed extreme, read this.

The circumstance was after either part had quit the school. You two seem to have answered the question thinking the teacher and student still has a professional relationship—that, of course, is wrong.

So you didn't read it.

 

[Hige]

One, that isn't pedophilic. Two, you're ignoring the nuance that is age in this. If they're 17 and the teacher is 28, sure it's socially weird, but not pedophilic. No more than if the student was 18.

College students can date their teachers. High school students who are 18, depending on your country, can date your instructor. As long as you can legally and logically consent and it isn't in the mindset that you are doing it for grades, you should be fine.

One, you're not an adult at 17? Two, you're not even fully developed mentally at 18. A 16 year old can say they want meth because they don't know any better.

You seemed to miss the part where I said

Once you graduate they aren't your teacher anymore.

.

The language, should you date your teacher, implies that the youth is in high school still. After they leave high school, I could care less if they decided to do meth and date their kindergarden teacher. I'm not interested in this poorly worded OP "well it's when they are graduated," know that I am only interested in a STUDENT, who is still a STUDENT, dating a teacher conversation.

 

[Project Naiad]

This isn't a debate over a hypothetical scenario. This is a question.
My point is this:
1. No. That's why this is still debate. Outside of the nuance of "are they under eighteen," there's no nuance that stops once they hit 18. The nuances of the age difference (are they too young/old?) The nuances of the nature of their relationship (Strained, abusive, or ordinary?) The nuances of their personalities (Are they manipulative?) are all still at play.
2. That's why this isn't about everybody, this is about the small minority who think they want to be in a relationship with their teacher. Taking THAT into account, the fact that there are very few people who are/want to be in these situations are unlikely to want to develop their relationship. Why? Because they're either a lot older than their students, which means that while their relationship might be healthier through experience their relationship is MUCH more questionable, or they're closer to the same age, at which point no one it's not as questionable but their relationship is still one that, given the age and likelihood of staying together, would be better untouched.
3 and 4 are specifically worded to allow for that scenario and to show how it wouldn't work even if one of them left. They would have to both leave, either graduating or dropping out for the student and quitting for the teacher.

Just so we're clear, I haven't touched on things like a 40 year old falling for their old 46 year old teacher because their age makes it so that the relationship is "___ married _____, who happened to be their teacher" as opposed to "____ married their teacher."

This is very much a hypothetical scenario, given the lack of details in op and the fact that neither of us is involved in the actual relationship.
Once a person hits 18 he's legally allowed to engage in a relationship with whomever they want. Whether that makes frown old ladies in the streets is not something that should worry them anymore. I agree on the other nuances, as I stated in my previous posts.

 

[Autumn McJavabean]

One, you're not an adult at 17? Two, you're not even fully developed mentally at 18. A 16 year old can say they want meth because they don't know any better.

You're not an adult by what measure? England? Japan? America? Canada? At 17 you're capable of making choices like an 18 year old. You don't turn 18 and magically the world changes. And no, pedophilia isn't with someone who is not an adult, it's interactions with a prepubescent child. So when you are 14 and undergoing puberty, it's not pedophilia anymore. So calling it pedophilic because they're under that arbitrarily made magical number 18, is just out-right stupid. It's incorrect and as such I'll call it out.

No one is fully developed until 25. How old are you? If you're not 25, your opinion is invalid by the basis that you are not capable of making choices let alone know better. See how dumb that logic works?

A 17 year old can have the mental skills to make choices. Your choices are not inherently invalid until 25-26. What you're also referring to is the brain developing, not its ability to quantify things. There are people who are 17 who are fully aware of their actions and the world enough to make a choice.

You seemed to miss the part where I said .

The language, should you date your teacher, implies that the youth is in high school still. After they leave high school, I could care less if they decided to do meth and date their kindergarden teacher. I'm not interested in this poorly worded OP "well it's when they are graduated," know that I am only interested in a STUDENT, who is still a STUDENT, dating a teacher conversation.

No, the language does not imply it's in high school. An instructor is still a teacher. You missed the part where the OP said : the above in my last post. Clearly talking about college level.

I think you mean "couldn't care less"?

The OP may be poorly worded, but your reasoning is also poor by assuming, like the last person, on things that are not alluded to.

I'm interested in correcting you. Get over yourself.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Once a person hits 18 he's legally allowed to engage in a relationship with whomever they want. Whether that makes frown old ladies in the streets is not something that should worry them anymore. I agree on the other nuances, as I stated in my previous posts.

Actually that last point brings up something I don't think any of us have argued about discussed yet. What happens when the parents aren't okay with their high school student dating a teacher OR even what happens when the teacher's family isn't okay with them dating a (former ) student.

How much of that do you think they should just brush aside to live their lives. Keeping in mind that alienating one's family is a little different than ignoring "frowning old ladies in the streets".

 

[Hige]

I'm interested in correcting you. Get over yourself.

Wow, lovely.

 

[Hall Kervean]

This is very much a hypothetical scenario, given the lack of details in op and the fact that neither of us is involved in the actual relationship.
Once a person hits 18 he's legally allowed to engage in a relationship with whomever they want. Whether that makes frown old ladies in the streets is not something that should worry them anymore. I agree on the other nuances, as I stated in my previous posts.

This is not over a hypothetical scenario.
This is asking a question and then asking us not to discuss a subpoint.
If it were a hypothetical scenario, there would be specifics given as more were asked for. This is too general to be strictly a hypothetical scenario.

We aren't asking about a legal argument, although one can certainly be made. We were asking about the morality of doing so.

 

[Project Naiad]

Actually that last point brings up something I don't think any of us have argued about discussed yet. What happens when the parents aren't okay with their high school student dating a teacher OR even what happens when the teacher's family isn't okay with them dating a (former ) student.

How much of that do you think they should just brush aside to live their lives. Keeping in mind that alienating one's family is a little different than ignoring "frowning old ladies in the streets".

In the last decades and still now homosexuals could be kicked out of their houses for coming out to their parents. If your family doesn't support you when you're having a healthy relationship (weird or non weird) it is their problem not yours imo.

 

[Project Naiad]

This is not over a hypothetical scenario.
This is asking a question and then asking us not to discuss a subpoint.
If it were a hypothetical scenario, there would be specifics given as more were asked for. This is too general to be strictly a hypothetical scenario.

We aren't asking about a legal argument, although one can certainly be made. We were asking about the morality of doing so.

It is a question that cannot be answered with a simple "yes it's wrong"/"no its not wrong". Hence this whole debate.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I saw above. In fact, I quoted literally everything but your sister's part. As stated, your basis is grounded on something never stated, hence why I do not agree. Do you not see that? You see it as a power imbalance because you assumed the situation without anything to quantify it.

Why? You haven't given a reason save for the extremes.

You have a sibling who is 18+ who may fall in love with their 27 year old instructor? By the way, a knee-jerk reaction is not a good thing. It means you're posting based on emotions, not logic.

Basically most of your arguments are on the basis of "Meh sister could be in this situation!" I get where you're coming from but you're letting your emotion assume things. Simply await for information from the OP because you can't assume someone is being forced to drop out or quit a job. This is where you take a step back and examine yourself.

I don't know how you wouldn't, but that's you. So yes, I would say it nulls some of your perspective, but it doesn't invalidate it.

But you're not. You're not at all. You're assuming with little information. That's like someone seeing what looks like a person flying and saying it's Superman when it could just be a plane.

Where was that clarified?

In fact, the OP said 18-20, meaning not high school.

As for your absurd assertions that are indeed extreme, read this.



So you didn't read it.

I did not see the 18 - 20 part. Could you link it? I am going off the opening post which is

What's your opinion on teacher-student relations when either part has quit the school? (High School) Related question: Does the origin of a relationship matter at all down the road? Opening Post

And that does specify High School students.

As to the knee jerk reaction maybe it is overly emotional. But even taking that out you are likewise assuming a lot more benevolent reaction to the OP's opening statement than is actually written. I mean I genuinely didn't see the 18 - 20 part but even still the conversation is presumably still about an teacher x student.

I have said I do not feel this is an appropriate relationship because it is one person taking advantage of another. The age of the participants doesn't change that opinion.

Now if the OP tells me this is a loving relationship that starts off in a beautiful way and leads to a life long commitment than that is obviously a little different. But they haven't said that. They only said - student x teacher.

 

[rae2nerdy]

In the last decades and still now homosexuals could be kicked out of their houses for coming out to their parents. If your family doesn't support you when you're having a healthy relationship (weird or non weird) it is their problem not yours imo.

So you're okay with someone alienating their support system? I mean I understand that some people have an easier time just saying fuck off to their family but that seems kind of extreme to me. Like just shrug your shoulder and say it sucks that you suck ma but imma do what I want.

And again you're assuming this is a healthy relationship. What if it isn't? What if it turns out to just be a fling and you have but a rift between you and your family for someone you didn't even end up liking all that much in the end.

What if the problems they have are valid for that matter? Supposing they bring up the age issue, the employment issue, etc. Should you just ignore that because it's not what you want to hear? Because they aren't blindly supportive of you?

I mean I think ideally a loving family will shut their mouth and love you even when they think you're making a bone stupid decision. But just cutting them off because they don't tell you the thing you want to hear seems a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Hall Kervean]

If your family doesn't support you when you're having a healthy relationship (weird or non weird) it is their problem not yours imo.

Yes because your family members, who have experienced romantic relationships and may be able to give you advice, are completely wrong if they disagree with you in any way.
Lootboxes that affect gameplay are ok, and anyone who says otherwise is immediately wrong!
#EAdidnothingwrong

 

[Project Naiad]

So you're okay with someone alienating their support system? I mean I understand that some people have an easier time just saying fuck off to their family but that seems kind of extreme to me. Like just shrug your shoulder and say it sucks that you suck ma but imma do what I want.

And again you're assuming this is a healthy relationship. What if it isn't? What if it turns out to just be a fling and you have but a rift between you and your family for someone you didn't even end up liking all that much in the end.

What if the problems they have are valid for that matter? Supposing they bring up the age issue, the employment issue, etc. Should you just ignore that because it's not what you want to here? Because they aren't blindly supportive of you?

I support looking for one's own happiness and path, and sometimes that means cutting off some paths.
And yes I assume it is a healthy relationship because if it was unhealthy I would actually agree with you.
I think I understand the main point where we disagree is that you think this scenario would always be bad while I think there's a chance for it to work out well.
Once again assuming that the family is not full on crazy, if the relationship turns sour (as even healthy relationships some times do) they would be comprehensive enough to accept back their child who would have learned a lesson.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I support looking for one's own happiness and path, and sometimes that means cutting off some paths.
And yes I assume it is a healthy relationship because if it was unhealthy I would actually agree with you.
I think I understand the main point where we disagree is that you think this scenario would always be bad while I think there's a chance for it to work out well.
Once again assuming that the family is not full on crazy, if the relationship turns sour (as even healthy relationships some times do) they would be comprehensive enough to accept back their child who would have learned a lesson.

Actually I think in the family situation you're assuming the worst. I was more thinking - hey maybe Mom and Dad have a valid reason for not liking your boyfriend/girlfriend. I mean sometimes you just hate your in-laws face and no amount of logic will dissuade you.

And sometimes you have like a legitmate concern. Nothing to say that concern can't change. My sister starting dating her current husband when he was still technically married to his previous wife.

All kinds of not okay things you can pull from that. Mom raised valid issues even talked about meeting my dad when he was cheating on HIS first wife.

So I mean it wasn't like - oh relatives don't like my relationship because they don't understand / are prudes / hate love.

It's sometimes they know what they're talking about and just blowing them off doesn't help anyone.

Hell in the case of my sister and her husband it actually ended up helping for them to listen to valid criticism. It made the relationship stronger in the end.

 

[Project Naiad]

N o _ w a y ! ?
That's what I was saying.
You were invalidating my points because I "didn't have all the information of the hypothetical." My point is that this isn't a hypothetical, so I was answering the question and giving my reasoning why, and opening my reasoning up for questioning.

In my eyes it is a hypothetical scenario, because op worded it with so little details that it could be open to several different interpretations with several different answers.

Yes because your family members, who have experienced romantic relationships and may be able to give you advice, are completely wrong if they disagree with you in any way.
Lootboxes that affect gameplay are ok, and anyone who says otherwise is immediately wrong!
#EAdidnothingwrong

Yes they might give you advice. And that advice isn't bound to be right.
Also a #? Really?

 

[Project Naiad]

Actually I think in the family situation you're assuming the worst. I was more thinking - hey maybe Mom and Dad have a valid reason for not liking your boyfriend/girlfriend. I mean sometimes you just hate your in-laws face and no amount of logic will dissuade you.

And sometimes you have like a legitmate concern. Nothing to say that concern can't change. My sister starting dating her current husband when he was still technically married to his previous wife.

All kinds of not okay things you can pull from that. Mom raised valid issues even talked about meeting my dad when he was cheating on HIS first wife.

So I mean it wasn't like - oh relatives don't like my relationship because they don't understand / are prudes / hate love.

It's sometimes they know what they're talking about and just blowing them off doesn't help anyone.

Hell in the case of my sister and her husband it actually ended up helping for them to listen to valid criticism. It made the relationship stronger in the end.

That seems to reinforce my point: just because a relationship isn't "socially acceptable" it doesn't mean it can't end well, like it did for your relatives.

 

[rae2nerdy]

That seems to reinforce my point: just because a relationship isn't "socially acceptable" it doesn't mean it can't end well, like it did for your relatives.

I wasn't actually saying it was going to end poorly. At least not with the family question. I was more asking how do you think people should treat their relatives having a problem with their relationship and raising valid/in-valid concerns. Admittedly that's on me I wasn't like super clear with the question.