Other Petition to move any Group RP Interest check with discord as a requirement to a subforum

[Cogwork]

It will at least add one more layer of protection.

We're talking about an extra click, maybe two, to access it.

That isn't going to do anything to lessen the risk that comes with using a Discord OOC.

 

[StrixDesmodus]

We're talking about an extra click, maybe two, to access it.

That isn't going to do anything to lessen the risk that comes with using a Discord OOC.

It makes it easier to avoid. How many times do I have to say it?

 

[Cogwork]

It makes it easier to avoid. How many times do I have to say it?

Yes that is true. However I am specifically pointing out the flaws of using the argument that there's an inherent riskiness in using Discord for OOC as a justification to move those roleplays to a subforum.

Wether or not doing so makes it easier for you to avoid them is irrelevant to that point.

 

[StrixDesmodus]

Yes that is true. However I am specifically pointing out the flaws of using the argument that there's an inherent riskiness in using Discord for OOC as a justification to move those roleplays to a subforum.

Wether or not doing so makes it easier for you to avoid them is irrelevant to that point.

There is an inherent riskiness. And it happened to me. And if the situation were any different, the results could not have been mitigated.

 

[Cogwork]

There is an inherent riskiness.

But I'm not denying that there is a risk, I'm just saying that moving those roleplays to a subforum does, to be blunt, absolutely nothing to lessen it.

 

[StrixDesmodus]

But I'm not denying that there is a risk, I'm just saying that moving those roleplays to a subforum does, to be blunt, absolutely nothing to lessen it.

I find it to be quite suspicious that you keep zig-zagging between already refuted arguments. At this point, I don't think this argument is entirely in good faith.

 

[Cogwork]

I find it to be quite suspicious that you keep zig-zagging between already refuted arguments.

A) My argument have always been the same (though feel free to point out any instances where it hasn't). Using the riskiness of Discord OOC as a justification for moving those roleplays to a subforum doesn't work because a subforum doesn't adress that issue.

B)You have yet to refute it.

The only argument you have provided is that moving these roleplays to a subforum would make them easier to avoid. But that only applies to people in your situation who don't want to join a roleplay with Discord OOC in the first place and those people aren't affected by the riskiness of a Discord OOC at all.

 

[StrixDesmodus]

A) My argument have always been the same (though feel free to point out any instances where it hasn't). Using the riskiness of Discord OOC as a justification for moving those roleplays to a subforum doesn't work because a subforum doesn't adress that issue.

B)You have yet to refute it.

The only argument you have provided is that moving these roleplays to a subforum would make them easier to avoid. But that only applies to people in your situation who don't want to join a roleplay with Discord OOC in the first place and those people aren't affected by the riskiness of a Discord OOC at all.

Then we're at an impasse. I can't think of any more ways to make my reasoning clear.

 

[Idea]

P1: If someone joins a discord OOC there's a risk.
P2: People who want to avoid a discord OOC do not join a discord OOC regardless of how they find the RP has a discord OOC.
P3: People who are indifferent to joining a discord OOC or not and those who actively want to join a discord OOC will join a discord OOC regardless of how they find an RP has a discord OOC.
P4: An additional subforum, whatever it's problems, makes it easier for the people in P2 (specifically the people in P2) to avoid roleplays with a discord OOC (note that it does not help not join a discord OOC because they weren't going to do that anyway)

The question, StrixDesmodus , is how one goes from these premises to the conclusion "a subforum will help avoid risks from joining a discord OOC." What premise is missing? Are any of these wrong in your eyes? Because if p2-4 are true then the logical conclusion is that a subforum has exactly no effect on the number of people who join or don't join a given discord OOC, as it does not affect the preferences in P2 or P3, and without affecting the number of people who would join a discord OOC it does not avoid any risk.

 

[Lavendear]

Honestly, "discord ooc risks" aside, grouping onsite OOC and offsite OOC together feels like a massive waste of users' times in the long run

Without specifically calling anyone out...

I just came across this "rule" at the end of a rather long group interest check.

I spent 15~20 minutes of reading just to be told at the VERY end (this is literally one of the last lines on the page) that this onsite RP REQUIRES offsite roleplaying. So I just wasted my time massively.

I did reply to the thread and politely asked if they could add a tag that "Discord is required" to avoid wasting other peoples' times. Their response? They deleted my message from their thread and didn't add the tag.

This sort of behaviour feels super rude and bad for users. Finding out someone requires 1st person or something is one thing, but the interest checks are supposed to all be onsite roleplaying! I think if a RP REQUIRES offsite OOCing, whether it's group or 1x1, it should be in its own section, just like threads that require offsite stuff for the RP itself. Maybe all them can be put in the offsite section together? I think that would make more sense than splitting OOC offsite and RP offsite—just having ANY required offsiteness be in its own section; if someone only uses Discord as an OPTION for ooc, then it makes sense to me to be in the regular check.

Either that, or there needs to be a more standardized/enforced tag for "offsite ooc" being required, similar to how genres are highlighted

 

[Daisie]

Could ctrl+f for the word "Discord"
Probably doesn't work for every scenario but it could cut some time at least

 

[GojiBean]

As the title says, this is a petition for Group Roleplays that requires its players to use Discord for its OOC chat to a sub forum in the Group RP interest checks.

It is extremely frustrating to read through an interest check, and get excited about it, then read the rules to see a Discord requirement. And I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels like this.

Off site interest checks get their own whole forum, but RPs that require Discord for OOC aren’t at the very least prefixed differently?

I propose a subforum (like how Personal discussion is in General discussion) is made in Group Roleplay Interest Checks for those with Off Site OOC.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Hoyo!

Taking a bit to read your petition, and the rest of the responses, here are my personal thoughts on the matter which, by the way, do not represent the thoughts or opinions of the rest of RpNation Staff (as far as I know).

I'm answering for myself only.


I'm going to be blunt about this, so apologies in advance if this sounds rude. I'm just trying to be factual and honest with you.

While I can understand your frustration, I'm afraid I cannot sympathize with it for the following reasons:

1) Changing the location of OOC Discussion from onsite to Discord does not change the nature or identity of the RP itself, which is what the Group RP's forum is dedicated to. The RP itself is still a Group RP and taking place onsite, no different from any other Group RP in the forum.

The reason Offsite Ads is its own section is because the RP takes place offsite. When I say "The RP," I mean everything about it from the OOC to the In-Character posting to all the information channels and lore pages, etc. Therefore, it makes sense to separate offsite Interest Checks for RP's taking place offsite from the Interest Checks meant for onsite RP's when none of the RP content will be visible on RpNation outside of the Interest Check itself.

2) Regardless of OOC location, speed is literally the only variable which differentiates onsite OOC from Discord OOC.

Discord is an IM platform which ensures that discussion takes place much closer to real time than the back and forth posting in an onsite OOC thread. Other than that minor difference, the nature of your discussions are exactly the same as if they were onsite. You're going to discuss characters, scenes, settings, lore, worldbuilding, character and plot progression, and maybe even shoot the breeze when things are slow or if you come to be friends and want to chit chat about each other's day in between post.

Given that the discussions themselves are mechanically identical, and their purpose is identical to onsite OOC discussion, what's the point of separating the RP's from one another onsite?

3) Prefixes as well are there to help identify the nature and identity of the RP's. Regardless of OOC location, a fantasy RP is still a fantasy RP. A realistic RP is still a realistic RP. So on and so forth. I can't see a valid reason to add or update the prefixes just to accommodate the OOC location when it has nothing to do with the RP's nature or identity, which is what the prefixes exist for.

4) There are already numerous methods of communication available to all GM's who create RP's to make it clear that OOC takes place offsite including but not limited to the following (and all of them are the GM's responsibility to utilize):

• Putting "Discord OOC" within the title of the Interest Check
  
  
• Tagging the RP with the "Discord" tag, and/or the "Discord OOC" tag (since you can create your own tags if it doesn't already exist)
  
  
• Making it clear at the beginning of the Interest Check, and in their first post of any created and linked RP threads, that the OOC discussion will be held offsite on Discord (and providing a link to the server)

As a final thought, if you find an RP requires Discord OOC, you can ask the GM if you can participate without joining the OOC. After all, I've had people join my RP's and posted regularly without ever once joining us in OOC discussion or conversation. You can too if you like the RP's premise enough to want to join. If the GM isn't willing to accommodate you, then you can find another RP to join or take the leap to be a GM and start your own ideal RP and run it how you want.


Again, I can understand the frustration. However, given that Group RP's are no different from one another regardless of where the OOC discussion is taking place, and because any/all communication about the OOC's location is the GM's sole responsibility, I can't see a sub forum separating them by OOC location being justified.

Cheers!

 

[Perpetual Zen]

Honestly, "discord ooc risks" aside, grouping onsite OOC and offsite OOC together feels like a massive waste of users' times in the long run

Without specifically calling anyone out...
View attachment 1141719
I just came across this "rule" at the end of a rather long group interest check.

I spent 15~20 minutes of reading just to be told at the VERY end (this is literally one of the last lines on the page) that this onsite RP REQUIRES offsite roleplaying. So I just wasted my time massively.

I did reply to the thread and politely asked if they could add a tag that "Discord is required" to avoid wasting other peoples' times. Their response? They deleted my message from their thread and didn't add the tag.

This sort of behaviour feels super rude and bad for users. Finding out someone requires 1st person or something is one thing, but the interest checks are supposed to all be onsite roleplaying! I think if a RP REQUIRES offsite OOCing, whether it's group or 1x1, it should be in its own section, just like threads that require offsite stuff for the RP itself. Maybe all them can be put in the offsite section together? I think that would make more sense than splitting OOC offsite and RP offsite—just having ANY required offsiteness be in its own section; if someone only uses Discord as an OPTION for ooc, then it makes sense to me to be in the regular check.

Either that, or there needs to be a more standardized/enforced tag for "offsite ooc" being required, similar to how genres are highlighted

Right, that's just rude behavior


Although, I'll point out, this is a volunteer run site. I think honestly, people should be more appreciative this site is even running with it all being volunteer basis. I'd say just swallow the pride and understand there has already been several admins and staff commenting on this thread. I honestly think it's a non issue to them and to the people at large
To force the staff to work diligently over time when they all probably have lives as well as jobs outside of keeping this site running. I mean, I don't think it's hard to just, tag, ask questions, get the app. This is a social role play which requires social interaction for people to feel connected. Complaining about it gets you no where.

I mean to be honest. It probably costs A LOT to keep this site running ; I don't want to seem unappreciative. Before discord there was skype and before skype there was aol and before aol there was icq. So I mean, it's been something long standing in the role play community since the beginning of role playing


At least the person put it clearly somewhere that discord is required for plotting and to be honest that means you likely have a rather invested general moderator.

Let's not poo poo moderators who use discord. I mean this is just general not only towards you Lavender because I pretty much answered my point.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
But, to have the idea that someone who spends a number of hours plotting a story for you. For members on a site which is staffed and fueled by volunteers. I have volunteered my personal time and effort into a role play. Yeah, I'm going to expect you to have a discord. I'm going to expect you to keep in contact and give me feedback on how I can run a role play. Even having an ooc on discord doesn't guarantee it will work out but it's a lot easier to get back in touch with people on it. Is it rude? I don't really put that in the realm of rude. Their creating something for other people if a discord on ooc is required, so be it. A GM puts a lot of effort into their work.

It's a bit annoying and to be honest a huge red flag to me accepting people into my role plays
Are you someone who complains a lot on public threads about the way people moderate their role plays
Yes? Maybe I don't want that attitude in my role play.
Again, not at you Lavender just at large to people in this thread

 

[Lavendear]

It's a bit annoying and to be honest a huge red flag to me accepting people into my role plays
Are you someone who complains a lot on public threads about the way people moderate their role plays
Yes? Maybe I don't want that attitude in my role play.

If such a thing was being posted on a random public thread I could see that as 'complaining', but given Discord OOCs is literally the point and topic of this thread, it only makes sense to bring up such a grievance here, no?

their creating something for other people if a discord on ooc is required, so be it. A GM puts a lot of effort into their work.

The point I was trying to illustrate isn't that there's an issue with Discord/OOC being required, but that many people don't do the common courtesy of making that quick/easy to know, thus causing people who DON'T have/use discord to waste a lot of time reading threads they couldn't possibly participate in. Because the thread maker didn't do the courtesy of putting a tag indicating that or just mention it at the beginning instead of the end.

The people who don't make it easily apparent that they require use of offsite things for OOC are being inconsiderate of literally everyone that doesn't/can't use those things.

A tag that gets highlighted similar to genre tags or moving all such RPs to a dedicated 'offsite required' section were ideas for solutions to the issue, not criticisms.

 

[Perpetual Zen]

If such a thing was being posted on a random public thread I could see that as 'complaining', but given Discord OOCs is literally the point and topic of this thread, it only makes sense to bring up such a grievance here, no?

The point I was trying to illustrate isn't that there's an issue with Discord/OOC being required, but that many people don't do the common courtesy of making that quick/easy to know, thus causing people who DON'T have/use discord to waste a lot of time reading threads they couldn't possibly participate in. Because the thread maker didn't do the courtesy of putting a tag indicating that or just mention it at the beginning instead of the end.

The people who don't make it easily apparent that they require use of offsite things for OOC are being inconsiderate of literally everyone that doesn't/can't use those things.

A tag that gets highlighted similar to genre tags or moving all such RPs to a dedicated 'offsite required' section were ideas for solutions to the issue, not criticisms.

Yeah and several moderators and even an admin commented. You literally just told a general moderator that you don't want to "waste your time" Lavender. Come on. You are illustrating a point which is old.

This thread is just so over done. The original poster isn't even interested in this conversation any more. It's just becoming one big complaining thread of something that can not be catered to anyone's "feelings". Why should they make it easy and apparent? Why should anyone cater their designs to you when they have put the effort in. Especially when you say something like "you don't want to waste your time." If people want to highlight an injustice or a wrong doing.

Make a better point than its just simply unfair because you dislike it. Like seriously. Everyone on this thread. Do you think, anyone ever, ever in this world. Got anything done by complaining about it. This is a site run by a team of people who volunteer their time. Do you know how much it costs to make and maintain a website? Upwards to 500 dollars a month starting point. Let's add other features and it can skyrocket to like a thousand. It just really really boggles my mind how people just don't understand what being rude is anymore.

Like, I'm seriously interested in what the original poster would have to say about this because their non interaction with anyone in the thread, tells me they are over it.

I'm just so over being pinged for this thread. It's a pointless argument and discussion at this point. I mean I'm very surprised site moderators have not just gotten involved and shut this thread down

 

[Idea]

I'm just so over being pinged for this thread. It's a pointless argument and discussion at this point.

Just letting you know in case you didn't know, you should be able to stop those notifications by clicking the 'unwatch' button at the top of the page:




Another method that should work is instead of clicking on the notification marking it as read without going to the page.

Hope this helps

 

[Perpetual Zen]

Just letting you know in case you didn't know, you should be able to stop those notifications by clicking the 'unwatch' button at the top of the page:

View attachment 1141808


Another method that should work is instead of clicking on the notification marking it as read without going to the page.

Hope this helps

Oh my god thank god

I'm still figuring this site out. Thank you

 

[Idea]

Oh my god thank god

I'm still figuring this site out. Thank you

No problem, happy to help. Just as a note, those methods stop alerts for normal replies, but if a reply tags or quotes you you'll still be notified.

 

[nali_]

I think the idea that you’re “wasting your time” reading through an IC that’s like maybe a five minute read is exceptionally ridiculous.

If you don’t want discord then don’t download it but creating a post demanding a subforum be made so you won’t personally be inconvenienced is coming off mad entitled.

Just as everyone has been saying, it’s a hobby, you aren’t doing it with the idea of being “efficient”. You’ve probably wasted time looking for FCs and falling down a rabbit hole, or stared at your screen trying to come up with an intro post, or closed and open your doc because your inspo to write a bio keeps coming and going.

Plus, I honestly doubt you’re all that mad about the tagging, and just upset that more and more people are using discord for supplementing their forum RP. To which, you either have to hop on board or rock out with the decreasing population who refuse to use it.

Either way, it’s seriously unserious. Go get some fresh air, drink some water, and remind yourself you’re just doing all this silly lil’ writing for funsies.

 

[truthofself]

Honestly, "discord ooc risks" aside, grouping onsite OOC and offsite OOC together feels like a massive waste of users' times in the long run

Without specifically calling anyone out...
View attachment 1141719
I just came across this "rule" at the end of a rather long group interest check.

I spent 15~20 minutes of reading just to be told at the VERY end (this is literally one of the last lines on the page) that this onsite RP REQUIRES offsite roleplaying. So I just wasted my time massively.

I did reply to the thread and politely asked if they could add a tag that "Discord is required" to avoid wasting other peoples' times. Their response? They deleted my message from their thread and didn't add the tag.

This sort of behaviour feels super rude and bad for users. Finding out someone requires 1st person or something is one thing, but the interest checks are supposed to all be onsite roleplaying! I think if a RP REQUIRES offsite OOCing, whether it's group or 1x1, it should be in its own section, just like threads that require offsite stuff for the RP itself. Maybe all them can be put in the offsite section together? I think that would make more sense than splitting OOC offsite and RP offsite—just having ANY required offsiteness be in its own section; if someone only uses Discord as an OPTION for ooc, then it makes sense to me to be in the regular check.

Either that, or there needs to be a more standardized/enforced tag for "offsite ooc" being required, similar to how genres are highlighted

My guy, I'm not going to lie, I'm going to be so insanely blunt and honest with ya. Posting a screenshot of the thread is kind of the rude play here. People who have also read that interest check; can and will see this (such as myself) and will know the roleplay and person you are talking about. You are acting high and mighty when you've also done wrong in this case. Like i get being upset; but putting the person basically on blast; is a little wild for this. Many people do not see harm with RPs that are Disocrd OOC / RPN OOC being in the same section (as seen via the poll on this post); the RP isnt even off-site, its just the plotting and talking about the characters. I personally dont see the issue with the discord bit; since if you even go look at that post again; its clearly mentioned in the summary that the DISCORD IS REQUIRED. excerpt below:

I have yet to decide on the antagonist(s) of this roleplay, you will need to vote on what you would like to see, but the core vibe of the game will be implemented which means there will be butterfly effects, premonitions, and the group will be forcibly split up at some points! There will be character deaths that can occur but not everyone or anyone has to die! It is entirely up to you! There will be more lore and explanations in the Discord after characters have been accepted but if you have any questions in the meantime, please DM me!

Not to mention; Ive seen many rps that start with an on site ooc then move to discord ooc. Many without notice. If you don't want to plot and plan the characters or talk abt the rp and be active in its plotting and building; maybe the rp just isnt for you. Its a preference to use discord to keep track of plotting and lore since it'll be all in one place and its a lot easier and quicker to talk via discord being able to flick thru the chats; versus having to pull up multiple rpn tabs with different things. If thats your preference to use RPN thats your prerogative. But trying to basically flame someone and more or less call them out seeking for sympathy just isnt a play. You look entitled like someone is personally hurting your feelings because you had to read an interest check with a few small paragraphs before learning that this rp like many others; features a discord.

if you want to do an rp; you could always host on yourself if you arent finding on for you due to the influx of discord oocs. frankly thats what i do and what a lot of people do. but forcing the volunteer staff team to have to upkeep another section or even just require the entire site to adjust to a new system / new way to label rps simply because you are extremely unhappy with how something is handled just seems; childish. rpn doesnt need another new section; adding mentions of discord ooc is the gms job; and they can list it where they want. a lot of rps will always list rules after the summary of the rp; so i dont get what the issue is fully. plus if people dont use discord; thats their choice; its not someone else fault that someone does. people who cant use it; can ask to go without it. a lot of gms are willing to give updates and summaries to people that cant use discord. but just choosing to not use it and then whining about it just doesnt make sense in this light. people can lay out their rps how they want with the information they want. its the freedom of rp. its the freedom of coding your own post and making your posts and roleplays. getting to create it and present it how you want to. trying to flame someone and call them rude because they deleted your post about it when its mentioned in the thing a few times that discord is required is not their fault. please take step back from your pc for a little and breathe.

in the end; its been mentioned several times by mods and admins that this isnt really a needed section / tag. and that again its up to the GM to let the writers know where the ooc is and how it will be handled. the poll also speaks volumes for it, 79% of the voters have no issue with it and see no need. If it bothers you that much; try making your own rp, it'll be run how you want it to be run and you'll enjoy it more that way.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

So, I've been reading the thread. I also do think that an entirely new subforum would be wild.

- I think we can definitely encourage and or require the use of a discord tag if the RP is happening on site, but there are off-site components on discord (like OOC and plotting).
- RPs that are entirely off site but not in the off-site section are reportable and everyone should hit that report button to bring it to our attention.

The site continues to grow daily and has been since 2008, techs come and go, and discord is just another tool that we adapt for our RPs and communications. Organization is always key to making a site as large as this one work. The only other real solution would be to stop discord all together (not happening) or bringing on some sort of chat-based system onsite where users can make channels/servers like discord and its all on site and even then that's also wild.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

More quick thoughts (sorry its 8:30 am here and I'm getting ready for the day).
I do understand the frustrations. Lots of RPs require optional discord servers for OOC. Some peeps on the staff run RPs on site with optional OOC servers and some of their players have opted not to use it, maintaining communications on site.

I do see the argument and merit of having a discussion about when things are a "requirement" and just another thing we are currently discussing in the staff section as a group. We constantly get users trying to bypass the off-site requirements as subtly as possible and post their discord only RPs in the group section (we are typically quick about catching them, but it's a lot). There's also the fact that we realistically can't moderate or hold people accountable for things they do. You'd be surprised at how often users try to blame or fabricate issues on discord to get them punished on site, that's why we don't get involved and have this in our rules:

RpNation Community Guidelines

The RpNation Community Guidelines, Appeals and Roleplay Rights & Rules.

www.rpnation.com

The bigger discord cases, particularly the ones with tons of people, are much more clear and easier to get involved with since its less likely that things were fabricated or abused to get someone in trouble, but also still not great. Discord reports force us to make execution decisions when they get bad enough as we attempt to apply or community guidelines.

 

[Shawdios]

Like, I'm seriously interested in what the original poster would have to say about this because their non interaction with anyone in the thread, tells me they are over it.

My life has been busy, apologies. I had only intended to propose the problem i'd noticed and only idea for solving it at the time, (admittedly with unnecessary aggression) so i could get a discussion about it going and see whether it was a more widespread issue.

for reasons, that i do not feel should be required for me to say, i can not just "bite the bullet" and download discord. I do not give the group interest check forum any attention anymore due to facing a Discord Required rule (at the end of the interest check) on nearly every group RP ive found potential interest in. its too much energy (for A HOBBY that i do to unwind) to go through a interest check and get myself excited for it, if it's going to end up being one i cannot participate in.

I'm glad i sparked discussion about this, but as for personally giving any further argument, I'll just ask people to keep things civil and to be open to listening other's opinions.

 

[GojiBean]

Hello all.

Following a thorough discussion of the matter, RpNation Staff have elected to reject this petition for a sub forum.

While we agree it can be frustrating at times for Interest Checks to not tell you there's a Discord OOC requirement until the very end, or sometimes not until after you've made first contact with the GM, at the end of the day the onus is on the GM to take proper initiative and responsibility for communicating with any and all prospective participants.

We believe that creating an entire sub forum separating the In-Character roleplaying sections of Group RP's purely because OOC communication takes place offsite would create more problems than it would solve.

As such, we are publicly announcing our encouragement of any GM's requiring Discord OOC communication to do one or all of the following:

• Use the "Discord OOC" tag
• Place "Discord OOC" in your Interest Check's title (possibly in parentheses)
• Put the notice of requiring Discord OOC as early in the Interest Check as possible, possibly even as early as being the first line of the Interest Check

We thank you all for your understanding, and wish you happy roleplaying!

Sincerely,

RpNation Staff