Colosseum Fate/Rising (Completed)

[Kalin Scarlet]

*Hoping its Berserker* (>u>)

I'm excited to see who I'm paired up with xD

 

[White Masquerade]

[QUOTE="Kalin Scarlet]*Hoping its Berserker* (>u>)

[/QUOTE]
Lol. Red is playing a servant you bad person.

 

[ACHA]

[QUOTE="Kalin Scarlet]*Hoping its Berserker* (>u>)

[/QUOTE]
I'm a servant. Unless you forgot. lolol

 

[Kalin Scarlet]

Of course I forgot xD I have no idea whose playing a servant, at all. I want it to be a complete shock. Also, I want to see who gets Berserker. Maybe the character with no magic heritage...Hey, White, Can Berserker ignore less than 2 command spells used towards an order?

 

[ACHA]

The masters with noble lineages could easily screw up other masters by not going with berserker. lolol

 

[Kalin Scarlet]

The masters with noble lineages could easily screw up other masters by not going with berserker. lolol

It's what I would do. Not even intentionally to hurt everyone else's chances...though if that was my goal, there'd be one specific way I'd go about it, to really bring the pain.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Having a weak master with Berserker will be Fate/Zero all over again lol.

 

[Archer]

I'm just wondering but how will we quantify how servants match up against each other in just raw skill. Like Sasaki kojiro has terrible physical power and in the assassin class for this system he would be far gimped for stats in comparison to an Arturia, and yet he can still easily keep up and beat her in a sword fight when he isn't unlucky.

 

[Kalin Scarlet]

I'm just wondering but how will we quantify how servants match up against each other in just raw skill. Like Sasaki kojiro has terrible physical power and in the assassin class for this system he would be far gimped for stats in comparison to an Arturia, and yet he can still easily keep up and beat her in a sword fight when he isn't unlucky.

Apparently, it will just be a matter of luck and tactics. The classes in this rp aren't as specialized so as to allow one to be outright better than another, exempting Berserker, who is a massive tank of a character who could probably beat every servant in a 1-on-1 encounter.

 

[Archer]

[QUOTE="Kalin Scarlet]Apparently, it will just be a matter of luck and tactics. The classes in this rp aren't as specialized so as to allow one to be outright better than another, exempting Berserker, who is a massive tank of a character who could probably beat every servant in a 1-on-1 encounter.

[/QUOTE]
This is entirely free form aside from dice in luck rolls, so unless everybody understands everyone's characters perfectly there will likely be issues like something with say a hobbyist swordsman from 1-300 being able to beat up Musashi from 1500~ on account of raw stats. Incidentally, this makes Berserker extremely powerful while heavily restraining utility based classes like Caster because NP effects are all pretty determined and stuff.

 

[White Masquerade]

@Kalin Scarlet


About the seals, I almost included that this round, but no =P. Berserker will definitely be able to ignore seals in the next round though. If anything, I'll at least check if Master/Servant want me to add that in there for now.


@Red


Bingo, you got it. Nobles can certainly screw over other masters by not picking Berserker. :5/5:. It's a very good strategy for nobles ^^


@Archer


Good questions! Give me a sec. I'll answer both your things in one. But beforehand, I'll say that if I were to make this 100% like Fate, I don't even think I'd sign up for this RP.

 

[Archer]

@Kalin Scarlet[/URL]
About the seals, I almost included that this round, but no =P. Berserker will definitely be able to ignore seals in the next round though. If anything, I'll at least check if Master/Servant want me to add that in there for now.


@Red


Bingo, you got it. Nobles can certainly screw over other masters by not picking Berserker. :5/5:. It's a very good strategy for nobles ^^


@Archer


Good questions! Give me a sec. I'll answer both your things in one. But beforehand, I'll say that if I were to make this 100% like Fate, I don't even think I'd sign up for this RP.

I'm not even talking about making it like Fate with parameters/ranks/etc. Like wouldn't it be wonderful to have certain aspects of the servant that are distinctly unique over others? Like Li Shuwen being a master of Kung Fu or Kojiro being a god with the sword. Otherwise we get a homogeneous load of characters whose NP's all functionally do the same things with just different visuals and who all have the same, predictable combat systems.


Like the master system is good. It has room for creativity and it shows what masters can do what and where they excel. A master can be an old woman focusing on magic or a young dude with no interest in magic who is good at punching things. Servants, however, seem unable to have any variation in that regard and are defined entirely by their classes.

 

[White Masquerade]

@Kalin Scarlet


*Secrets*


@Archer


Gotcha. I kind of understand what you mean, but not totally. The Master & Servant system look the same to me =/. Can you tell me a little more how they're different?

 

[Kalin Scarlet]

@Kalin Scarlet[/URL]
For none being outright better than the other, this is untrue ( ). If you take out the Era and Phantasm from servants, there are definitely winners. Yes, Berserker would beat anybody one-on-one. Saber would be strongest next, with highest HP and most Prana for skills. Lancer third as he has an all-around bonus and high Elude Prana. It would be a tie between Archer/Rider cause Rider has High Elude, but Archer has extremely high magic resistance. Last place would be Caster/Assassin since most classes have Magic Resistance and Assassin has zero "battle" bonuses.


However! If you play Assassin/Caster right (meaning not in a straight-up fight), they can be serious problems. The Era and Phantasms blur the line of who's better than the other. Throw in Masters with their seals and deals, and anyone can win.


@Archer ^ To you too.


Gotcha. I kind of understand what you mean, but not totally. The Master & Servant system look the same to me =/. Can you tell me a little more how they're different?

I think @Archer wants true noble phantasms, like Avalon and the ability to negate attacks, The Gae Bolg spear, which can kill someone before they attack conceptually, etc...

 

[Archer]

@Kalin Scarlet[/URL]
For none being outright better than the other, this is untrue ( ). If you take out the Era and Phantasm from servants, there are definitely winners. Yes, Berserker would beat anybody one-on-one. Saber would be strongest next, with highest HP and most Prana for skills. Lancer third as he has an all-around bonus and high Elude Prana. It would be a tie between Archer/Rider cause Rider has High Elude, but Archer has extremely high magic resistance. Last place would be Caster/Assassin since most classes have Magic Resistance and Assassin has zero "battle" bonuses.


However! If you play Assassin/Caster right (meaning not in a straight-up fight), they can be serious problems. The Era and Phantasms blur the line of who's better than the other. Throw in Masters with their seals and deals, and anyone can win.


@Archer ^ To you too.


Gotcha. I kind of understand what you mean, but not totally. The Master & Servant system look the same to me =/. Can you tell me a little more how they're different?

Like masters have their clear weaknesses and strengths that the person making the character can customize. Like someone can have a master using all blast magic or a combination of reinforcement and close combat and so on. Servants, however, are just literally balls of stats that have everything about them determined entirely by class and stats. They have no room for tactics or strategy. Fights just come down to stat balls fighting stat balls where Berserker somehow wins and then dies because of bad luck. Noble phantasms being entirely systemized in their effects also really cuts down on having tactics or diversity among servants. You either damage, buff/debuff, or heal. Like, I don't have a problem with that, but the fact that we have no way of understanding the special skills of other servants that aren't noble phantasms is what's an issue in my eyes.


"How do we know that the guy who spent 100 years practicing kung fu but is in the assassin class can outskill and beat a terrible swordsman in the Saber class?"


--would be the essential question I am posing.

 

[Archer]

@Archer[/URL] wants true noble phantasms, like Avalon and the ability to negate attacks, The Gae Bolg spear, which can kill someone before they attack conceptually, etc...

Not really that. I don't have an issue with the NP system, it's the fact that there is no skill system that is bothering me. Like without them everyone is just on this awkward equal plain where historical people that had godlike skills with a spear get trashed by a person who picked up a sword once or twice but are just older than them.


Also stuff that are unique in skills like Shadow Lantern for the Hassan making them be able to hide in shadows and stuff. Or like Bravery/Battle continuation for someone like Heracles or Chinese Martial Arts for Li Shuwen and so on.

 

[Kalin Scarlet]

Not really that. I don't have an issue with the NP system, it's the fact that there is no skill system that is bothering me. Like without them everyone is just on this awkward equal plain where historical people that had godlike skills with a spear get trashed by a person who picked up a sword once or twice but are just older than them.
Also stuff that are unique in skills like Shadow Lantern for the Hassan making them be able to hide in shadows and stuff. Or like Bravery/Battle continuation for someone like Heracles or Chinese Martial Arts for Li Shuwen and so on.

Well, I understand where you're coming from. I just don't know what I could say to suggest a fix. I mean, to add skills to this system, you'd need to give each of those skills a value or effect that suits the way this game works. I don't know if White is up for that. Also, noble phantasms are essentially a fix to the issue you have. NPs are the greatest representation of a Heroic Spirit, and their deeds, after all.

 

[White Masquerade]

@Archer


To the 1st post:


I am getting it a little more. The answer would be the Era + Phantasm. Say you have a great martial artist from 1800+ (Bruce Lee) against a swordsman from 300+ (King Geunchogo). It's possible, but why would anyone pick an amateur swordsman from that earlier time period? Also, there's a misunderstanding when it comes to age = better than someone that came up later. A big part of the bonuses for the Eras, is Fame & Notoriety. A servant coming from the 1800+ is not going to have that same Fame Boost as a hero from the BC/Early AD Eras. The 1800+ servant can train all they want, but they have a smaller and more recent legend. They won't measure up.


2nd post:


Kalin got it again =P. For that point, I did think about making specialized NP, but that is an extreme amount of work to make it balanced. Can you imagine servants who have skills that stop confusion, let them see through walls, don't die if they're not stabbed in the same place twice, can instantly steal the hearts of the people they know the name of...how do you even role-play that like it matters? That stuff would fly in a free-form (tbh, not really), but here, stuff like that has to be tested and balanced out first. I love Fate and GM'ing RPs, but I really don't want to sit here and test, then balance a whole bunch of custom skills that I know will be extremely overpowered and/or making things immensely complicated.


So I chose the alternative of making what I knew would fit into the RP myself. The list that's there now, is only for this first RP. I do have outlines of making more specific phantasms like Hercules' Nine lives for the next. You have to remember, this is the 1st of 4 RPs. This system here alone, took 3 months to balance out and make sure there are no hang-ups anywhere. I still find things I need to fix today.


Here are my priorities:


Working Sign-ups/Selection


Important Secret Identities


Clearly explaining how it all works


Flowing Battle System


Realistic Class Balancing


Complete/Easy Character Creation


Until most of those are okay to me (which I'll find out from this RP test), I cannot make a brilliant NP system. What use would it be if the RP basics don't even work? There will be a change to NP come the second RP and a big one for the third. For this first though, it is not a good idea.


I hope I cleared everything up! If you have anything else, let me know

 

[Archer]

@Archer[/URL]
To the 1st post:


I am getting it a little more. The answer would be the Era + Phantasm. Say you have a great martial artist from 1800+ (Bruce Lee) against a swordsman from 300+ (King Geunchogo). It's possible, but why would anyone pick an amateur swordsman from that earlier time period? Also, there's a misunderstanding when it comes to age = better than someone that came up later. A big part of the bonuses for the Eras, is Fame & Notoriety. A servant coming from the 1800+ is not going to have that same Fame Boost as a hero from the BC/Early AD Eras. The 1800+ servant can train all they want, but they have a smaller and more recent legend. They won't measure up.


2nd post:


Kalin got it again =P. For that point, I did think about making specialized NP, but that is an extreme amount of work to make it balanced. Can you imagine servants who have skills that stop confusion, let them see through walls, don't die if they're not stabbed in the same place twice, can instantly steal the hearts of the people they know the name of...how do you even role-play that like it matters? That stuff would fly in a free-form (tbh, not really), but here, stuff like that has to be tested and balanced out first. I love Fate and GM'ing RPs, but I really don't want to sit here and test, then balance a whole bunch of custom skills that I know will be extremely overpowered and/or making things immensely complicated.


So I chose the alternative of making what I knew would fit into the RP myself. The list that's there now, is only for this first RP. I do have outlines of making more specific phantasms like Hercules' Nine lives for the next. You have to remember, this is the 1st of 4 RPs. This system here alone, took 3 months to balance out and make sure there are no hang-ups anywhere. I still find things I need to fix today.


Here are my priorities:


Working Sign-ups/Selection


Important Secret Identities


Clearly explaining how it all works


Flowing Battle System


Realistic Class Balancing


Complete/Easy Character Creation


Until most of those are okay to me (which I'll find out from this RP test), I cannot make a brilliant NP system. What use would it be if the RP basics don't even work? There will be a change to NP come the second RP and a big one for the third. For this first though, it is not a good idea.


I hope I cleared everything up! If you have anything else, let me know

It's not age that's the issue lol, it's where it's game over for anybody in later eras because everything is absolutely and entirely decided by stats pre-set from the beginning. Like what's the use of using someone who can punt you through entire mountains(Zhang Sanfeng 900-1200) when he just automatically loses to <insert random Roman soldier>(1-300) because of stats? I mean sure you can compare someone great like Beowulf or Attila from the 1-300 range, but the fact of the matter stands that there are plenty of people who should have way less combat experience or actual skill than someone from a later age that trained harder and better.


Like it'd be great if there was an actual way to use tactics so that things wouldn't be entirely one dimensional, because right now as I understand tactics are just things you add in a RP post and hope the other party doesn't flat out ignore or roll over with the reasoning of better stats.

 

[BLUR]

It's not age that's the issue lol, it's where it's game over for anybody in later eras because everything is absolutely and entirely decided by stats pre-set from the beginning. Like what's the use of using someone who can punt you through entire mountains(Zhang Sanfeng 900-1200) when he just automatically loses to <insert random Roman soldier>(1-300) because of stats? I mean sure you can compare someone great like Beowulf or Attila from the 1-300 range, but the fact of the matter stands that there are plenty of people who should have way less combat experience or actual skill than someone from a later age that trained harder and better.
Like it'd be great if there was an actual way to use tactics so that things wouldn't be entirely one dimensional, because right now as I understand tactics are just things you add in a RP post and hope the other party doesn't flat out ignore or roll over with the reasoning of better stats.

The thing is, I don't think anyone is choosing a random Roman soldier, or something of the like without a legend, as their servant. There's no use in really worrying about it. I see what you mean with how era shouldn't define how powerful a servant is, but I also see White's (I said this in case there are people who would be confused if I say Kin) point of how a more recent legend would not stack up against a famous legend from earlier times. Its not the skill of the combatant that is being compared with their stats, it's how long their legend has been able to battle time. Like Achilles said in the Odyssey (iirc), the most important thing to a warrior is their legacy. A legacy that is long withstanding goes to show how great that hero was, whereas a legacy that dies out early proves that hero didn't achieve the glory that warriors crave.

 

[White Masquerade]

Ah! I feel I am getting so close to you, but still feel a bit off. Let's me see.


For your first Para, that's where the social side of the RP comes in. Unless a servant is from the BC Era and the master is the only Noble, with everyone else having no lineage, there is NO way one team is going to take out everyone else. It's just not going to happen. The masters have to team up and double-cross other masters, or the servant has to force their contract to break with their master and hope another one picks them up. If you plan on playing solo, you're not going to win. You might survive, but you won't win.

Like what's the use of using someone who can punt you through entire mountains(Zhang Sanfeng 900-1200) when he just automatically loses to <insert random Roman soldier>(1-300) because of stats?

This is something I don't understand about the automatic losing. You're looking at stats, but completely ignoring the other 5 pairs of Masters/Servants in the same game. Also ignoring the phantasms that change HP/Prana. Use one of those successfully and the battle flips in a second. Also ignoring that for the first 3 quarters of the RP, you probably won't know what servant another master has and they won't know what you'll have either. Using tactics started from the 1st post of this interest check. What you pick and who you pair with is half the battle. Picking the right phantasm and partners is tactics. Knowing when to reveal identity and when not to is tactics. Tactics are all over the place.


I think I see what the problem is. If you think this is a free-form RP, it's not. If you stab someone with a knife but don't use "Prana" for it, nothing happens. The system here is the skeleton of the RP, while the RP'er's creativity gives it the skin.

the fact of the matter stands that there are plenty of people who should have way less combat experience or actual skill than someone from a later age that trained harder and better.

Okay, this I get. But that's where things get shaky and really, really subjective. I can make the same argument as you, and no one will really know a clear answer.


Person A: Born earlier, didn't train a lot in martial arts.


Person B: Born later, trained all his life in martial arts.


You are saying Person B should beat Person A, because they trained harder in martial arts. Okay. But how do you know Person A is not smarter than Person B? How do you know Person A's blessing from some random god, is worth less than Person B's training? How do you know person A's technique is the reason they didn't train a lot? Because the technique is unstoppable?


You see how subjective going there can get? How do you know fighting smart > book smart? How do you know the training back then was easier/harder than the training back then? How do you judge the worth of Person A's one epiphany about killing somebody, against Person B's 20 less revealing epiphanies?


This turns into a "I love this person, so because of x reason, they can beat yours in a fight. Mine trained for 30 years on Olympus while yours trained for only 10 years in a dojo, so mine should be better than yours." That goes nowhere really, really, fast.


I think I'm getting closer to what you mean, so let me know if i hit it or not.

 

[BLUR]

@White Masquerade When is the deadline btw? I have my character sheet done but I want to format it before I pm you

 

[White Masquerade]

@White Masquerade When is the deadline btw? I have my character sheet done but I want to format it before I pm you

It is the 1st for Masters and the 13th for Servants. 15th is the target start date

 

[White Masquerade]

@QuirkyAngel


Great. Another Master I don't want to kill @_@. You can tag me whenever you're finished

 

[Life.]

@QuirkyAngel[/URL]
Great. Another Master I don't want to kill @_@. You can tag me whenever you're finished

White you're just so kind-hearted that you don't want to kill anyone!