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Fat Gandalf's Bar & Lounge (OOC chat) - Chapter Four

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Trust me when I say that Mario has a bit more tact to do that too much.

Here is a oddball question. What if I wanted to learn a second martial arts technique? Not to replace my current Tae Kwon Do, but as an additional style to expand my fighting capabilities.

I understand that this might be a bit of a headache, so if you want to just say 'no' to this I won't be heartbroken. However, while it is not very common in Real Life, people can and do learn more than one style.

I am not trying to get an additional bunch of attacks, so don't worry about that. I am just wondering if there is a way to do this. Might come in handy.
 
How would that work? Assuming that it is allowed, would you have to switch back and forth between styles, or would you add your combat bonuses together? How many skills would it take, and out of curiosity, what form are you looking to get?
 
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Much of that will be up to the storyteller, of course. But I can tell you what techniques I am considering.

Tai-Chi would be a great offset to the current style I have. It would provide some great MA bonuses, and give Mario some much needed meditative philosophy.

Kyokushinkai Karate is a more martial technique, fitting with a more aggressive mentality.

Of course, all of my pondering will be moot if Dannigan doesn't allow it.
 
Thai kickboxing would be awesome, but I have a feeling that style would cost me many skills, and it's benefit might not be worth it.
 
Heya friends! Incoming martial arts-related hyperkinetically-fueled brainstorm! Please read this carefully as I have several important points to make. As always, ask away if you have need. =)

O.K. First off, I posted in Sharseya and that's all the posting brain I have right now. I'll post in Robotech as soon as able. Talking shop uses a different (and easier) part of my brain (I think), so I'll provide some answers to Sherwood's questions here.

I am brainstorming this "out loud," so there are going to be lots of words. Let me point out the following related 5 thoughts and points:

1. I don't mind characters in the game with more than one system.
As a person with a lifelong interest in martial arts who comes from a family line of martial artists, in my own experience, probably less than half of the martial art community I've trained and talked with over the decades have trained in one system while more than half have trained in two or more systems.

This usually has come about from a teacher of a favorite school moving or retiring or the students have moved and they want to continue practicing, but they have had to select another system that is more convenient to their lifestyle and circumstances. Furthermore, most instructors I have known have studied multiple systems. It is one big benefit to being American; we have systems to choose from like we have restaurants, makes of cars, or airlines to fly with.

However, it is my belief that many professional fighters super-specialize in only that one system they make their living with (like professional Muay Thai, Sumo, Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Pankrase, etc.).

2. But having more than one system in-game and in Real Life? As you probably suspect, there are important differences.
In trying to find what best works for me, I have personally studied many systems. I make use of a bit of everything that has proven useful and I leave what doesn't work for me by the wayside (mainly the impractical techniques).

However, this is an RPG. A PC having two systems has already been created and covered by the late Erick Wujcik (of Ninjas & Superspies and Mystic China fame). In Real Life, I can use any technique I know. In the game? Not so fast.

Like in Ninjas & Superspies, when you roll Initiative for combat, you declare at the start of your turn which system you are using. You cannot switch systems until your next combat round. But the great thing is is that you can!

Let's say you're duking it out using your boxing skills and your opponent, a wrestler, gets tired of all that punching and changes it up. He grabs you and you both go to the ground. Having lost his footing, the average boxer (or Tae Kwon Do artist) is now in serious trouble! (Sherwood, speaking from experience, if you take the average Tae Kwon Do practitioner to the ground and he or she is just plain fucked. I am not kidding. It is kind of sad to watch.)

But what your wrestling opponent doesn't know is that you've also studied (and paid for skill-wise) Command Sambo (an allowed wrestling system from Rifter #9)! Instead of being at a gross disadvantage, you have a solid "ground game" and therefore a real fighting chance against this wrestler!

Furthermore, Mario currently enjoys the Strike/Parry/Dodge/Roll bonuses for being a Tae Kwon Do artist. And why not? Sherwood has invested in the skills to get Mario there and most of the time, Mario has a serious advantage against the average Army of the Southern Cross soldier (who knows Hand to Hand: Basic, Expert, Martial Arts or Commando, but not a specialized system like Tae Kwon Do).

If Mario spends the time and skills to learn, say, Tai Chi Chuan (as Sherwood mentioned), Mario will also benefit from those attribute bonuses as they stack. Also, Tai Chi Chuan is one of the few systems out there that has Automatic Dodge. Not spending an action to dodge is quite useful; just ask any Valkyrie or Ajax pilot why they stay in the air!

3. So therefore... bonuses from systems do not accumulate. Attribute bonuses, however, do. And here is where I need to be careful - attribute bonuses.

Sure, just about anyone with any Palladium experience knows that high P.P. is where its at, especially in a mech-based game where you do the pointing and clicking and your mech does the damage. High P.P. is the golden Palladium key to surviving and excelling in combat.

However... any of you guys ever compare your characters combat bonuses with one another? Just for funsies and in the spirit of team-building, take a minute to your character's combat bonuses and compare them with, say, Herc, our loveable and big-hearted giant or "Elly Nor," that peach-eatin', farm-girl who enjoys testing out experimental-and-very-possibly-dangerous-aircraft-that-aren't-quite-trustworthy-yet. =)

In my over-imaginative and addled head (wheee!), your characters fall into the following categories. This is just my spontaneous list in order of overall effectiveness based on a purely mathematical level, not roleplaying. This list represents out-of-mecha, no tools or gear, combat abilities and bonuses. Just attribute bonuses, experience levels, and skills. NPCs names are listed in parenthesis. =)

"Combat Monsters"
(Hitomi - Seriously, watch out. Hitomi is Toph and Elinor's martial arts instructor for damned good reason.)
Toph (yes, Sherwood, in my view Toph has the edge over Mario. Let Fat Gandalf's erupt with fun comments!)
Mario

"Combat Capable"
(Shirley)
Elinor
(Booty)
Herc (his P.P. attribute is "only" 18 and he hasn't been leveled since level 2)
(Professor Stein - but give him his gizmos and it is another story; see Herc's prologue)

"Combat Incapable" (sorry, but that's the best way I know how to put it right now!) =)
(Cera - Hand to Hand: Basic is her only combat skill)
(Reggie - He's 15 years old and restricted to a wheelchair, but he's still a Traverser and a "techie". =) )
("MechaKitten" who is now "crying" in my ear, "'Incapable?' But whhhhhhhyyyyyyyy?!" Move it, cat! I'm trying to type!)

"Miscellaneous" (or in other words, I don't feel comfortable sharing this information at this time)
("Spaceman Sam")

My point? As your GM, it is my duty to give you opponents that challenge you all. While it is good to have "combat monsters," even if it is in-character, just keep in mind that as your GM, I have to find and create up challenges for you all. What you do with this information is up to you. I just think it is a good idea to make you aware of it, NPCs included. =)

4. The PC must save up the skills to spend on the new system. The costs for a second (or even third) martial system are the same as in character creation. Please take a look at The Martial Way for allowed systems and their skill costs.
Now we come to another big issue for me. Your characters just hit 4th level. If you've spent that skill at 4th level (as opposed to putting Undecided as per Shop Talk to save that skill), that means you're going to have to save up for four more O.C.C. levels at minimum to pick a system from Tier One (like Tai Chi Chuan) or five levels for a system on Tier Two (like Muay Thai). That means nothing until you're 8th or 9th level!

Jeez! Think about it - we've been playing for 1 1/2 years and you just hit 4th level?

But, like they say in Las Vegas, "If you wanna play, you gotta pay."

5. Which leads me to another idea - I'm juggling around the ability to retrait.
Well... Let me explain first that retrait is an MMORPG term where one takes a character's traits and reorganizes them to suit their current needs.

4a. In Mass Effect 2, your can retrait your character's skills so they can change their skills. In Palladium terms, this would be like swapping your M.O.S.s around so instead of Mario the A.T.A.C. tanker being a communications specialist and armorer, he would leave those behind and choose two other M.O.S.s (Intercom voice sez, "Doctor Mario Zuko. Doctor Zuko. You have a half-Meltrandi, half-human patient in bay 7!") Yet, Mario always remains a tanker. *insert Army tanker roar here* =)

4b. In Mass Effect 3, one can literally switch O.C.C.s. In Palladium terms, this is like saying your character can go from being an T.A.S.C. pilot to a TacCorp Special Forces soldier to a Expeditionary Marine O.C.C. on the fly.

So, that's what retraiting is all about.

So what might retraiting mean in Robotech: Broadsword?

Well, the only way I can see any of you getting a second martial arts system is to change the skills you have now. I don't want to mess with O.C.C.s or M.O.S.s; they are too integral to your characters (imagine Toph the non-doctor, non-pilot? Ewwww!). Nor am I open to "customizing" the M.O.S.s. Your character has the Wilderness Survival skill as part of one of your packages and you're never likely to use it? Sorry! It's part of that O.C.C. or M.O.S.. If I start playing with those "core" skills, I risk opening up all kinds of issues and imbalances down the road, if not immediately. Barf!

But what about retraiting "Other" skills and secondary skills?

Hmm. Perhaps? If there are skills of these types your character is just plain not using, then sure it's a waste to have them, but since these skills are selectable, then maybe that's something we can work with? I don't have anything concrete besides that, but it's a start. What do you think?

That said, I have to point out this general no-brainer statement - prerequisites must still be honored. Not like anyone's asking for this, mind, but let's say Toph said, "Can I get rid of First Aid and Paramedic since I have Medical Doctor"? Absolutely not. If you want me to get into the why behind that, just ask.

That's all I can think of. I'm going to hit the sack now. I've got to be up for work in the morning. Have fun, gang! =)
 
Awesome info there. I am going to have to read this a few times to make sure that I don't miss anything.

I would agree that Toph has a bit of an edge on Mario, so I'm not offended. He's a bit more of a brick, with the higher level of SDC than she has, but she is more maneuverable.

The idea of retaining once we have a realistic chance to do so would be great. I picked up Demolitions for level four before I had thought of getting a second style. If I could drop it in favor of the Tai Chi (with a few more skill levels under my belt, of course), that would be awesome.

In the Martial Way, you show that the Tai Chi is a cost of four skills as a Tier One technique. So, if i retrain a couple of skills and bank the next one is get at level five, I could pick this up at level six. Is that correct?

Things are still in the rough draft stage for me, but as time goes on, I would like to continue to bounce this off of you until we are both in agreement on it.
 
On a side note about skills, I see that I picked up Navigation twice by accident. So if I swap that out along with Demolitions and Mecha Engineering I can possibly get this in one more level. I can handle that.
 
Sherwood said:
One of you fliers, please tell me the flight time for this shit can to a point where they can fire on Eglin base? That is our time limit.
Click to expand...

Purr Purr Can I use Elinor's Pilot: Spacecraft, Light and Medium skill to get a good guess on this? I imagine it's going to be different if this ship isn't "light or medium," but a lot closer than the average mecha pilot taking a guess?

Also, can I use that to get an idea of potential vulnerable spots to place a couple nukes, that are likely to be close to where we are? (And by "where we are," as I recall we're not too far from the hangar bay where we fought, so maybe Elinor can use that as a reference?)

Obviously this ship isn't going to be anything like the ones she's used to, but I'm hoping some things will be close enough to try a guess.
 
Rolling for Pilot: Spacecraft, Light and Medium (81%)
 
O.K. Elinor is able to ascertain the following:
1. The unfortunate answer to Mario's question ("When can the Zeki hit Eglin?") is - right now. Why? Because military fliers like Elinor know that Lord Dolza's spaceships are armed with long-range missiles. Any long-range missile can reach Eglin Base from where you are.
2. The big problem with Elinor's own question ("Where are some potentially good places nearby for these mini-nuclear bombs?") is that she has no idea what a "Zeki-Zentraedi Assault Scout" really is. She has never seen the outside of this vessel and Lord Dolza's Zentraedi have no ship with that name that Elinor has ever heard of.
2a. Given Elinor's education and experience (especially current experience), she can sum up the following, however. Cera is probably correct in that putting a nuke in the badly-damaged Gnerl aerospace hangar might compromise that entire side of the starship. If this is true, then the vessel ceases to be spaceworthy (and therefore, no option of folding space). Elinor can also ascertain that if the vessel is no longer spaceworthy, and the Zentraedi (at least Lord Dolza's Zentraedi) lacked the ability to repair damage of this magnitude, then that means putting the bomb in the aerospace bay gives this vessel nowhere to go but Earth.
 
Not to mention the big guns of a ship like this has the potential to reach thousands of miles in space, even if it is less in an atmosphere.
 
Yep! If the ship gains altitude, all it needs is line of sight and it can let go with those bad boys.
 
Could be worse; it might have been a one. That's not to say it isn't funny that our resident bug gun missed the wall. :angelD:
 
O.K. Apparently this isn't getting through...

Folks? Please roll dice HERE in Fat Gandalf's (not in-character). I would like one place to look up such rolls when I do my GM thing, not two.
 
Sorry. I am used to having my rolls with the IC post.
 
No worries as long as I don't have to keep repeating this. =)

Sherwood, I know it's not a fumble, but could you give me a percentile roll here for Mario?
 
Hey Dann, according to your fumble chart, I need to roll two more times. Should I do so, or not worry about it, since it wasn't a '1'?
 
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