Deal Breakers. What makes you "walk" away?

[kevintheradioguy]

the problem is more when your character is an annoying asshole who doesn't participate OR a doormat who doesn't participate. It's less a physical thing and more of a participation issue.

That, unfortunately, is the problem. However much I like to DM, however much I am DMing in real life, I cannot play for other people. ...well, OK, I can, but that's kind of assish of me, and generally frowned upon in the RP community. I got quite a lot of characters whose posts were "I do the same", and "I continue doing what I did previously".

The rest of us had to make special efforts to include them, but they seemed more interested in writing a character study by themselves than writing with us.

I might suggest they were new and too enamoured with the character they made, and not the things said character does... when I first got into forum RPs (and text-based altogether), i used to write a lot of things about what my character feels, and things. It was maybe... 25 paragraphs. I kid you not. Each post.
It took me about two years of not-so-active RPing to stop that. If someone's really interested, I realized, they'd read the bio,or PM me about it. I should write only what is relevant... or funny. Gods know I cannot just stop jesting in the game v_V

 

[gambolingcat]

You know, I think another tangential deal-breaker's come up here (at least for me): when people HEAVILY front-load information about their characters, spending consecutive pages and pages on static back-story information. I'm extremely interested in getting to learn about others' characters, but reveals and emotional involvement have to happen naturally, just like reading a well-crafted novel. Dumping gigantic walls of text about your own character's past into the early stages of a roleplay is sort of like TELLING your partners they're interested in your character, when really, the only sure way to interest someone is to organically interest them.

 

[rae2nerdy]

That, unfortunately, is the problem. However much I like to DM, however much I am DMing in real life, I cannot play for other people. ...well, OK, I can, but that's kind of assish of me, and generally frowned upon in the RP community. I got quite a lot of characters whose posts were "I do the same", and "I continue doing what I did previously".

Yeah I was agreeing with the first point just clarifying why I added the specification on the mute character. Not because I thought you didn't get it but because I wanted to touch on an issue I have observed with other people. Namely where they think making a character who can't talk it the same as making a character who can't interact.

As to gambolingcat 's point I also think sometimes people don't understand that certain types of characters just don't work in an interactive/collaborative medium. Like they want to play the super powerful fighter, the loner badass, the damsel in distress, or whatever other label they stick on what is essentially a Pretty Lampshade.

Pretty Lampshades are characters that are so useless to the main plot that if you replaced them with a lamp literally no part of the story would change. Usually these are also designated female love interests ( hence the Pretty in the name ) but you could use this descriptor for loner types as well.

Now the thing is that Pretty Lampshades characters can work in books or tv shows. Because those are mediums in which not every character has an active role in the story and the Pretty Lampshade can just be filler for someone else's story.

These characters do not work in roleplay because at the bare minimum you must have two EQUALLY IMPORTANT POV characters. One played by Person A and one played by Person B. That's the bare minimum, you can certainly increase characters and players as you see fit.

The problem then becomes - Pretty Lampshades are basically useless characters. When they aren't the focal point of a story that's less of an issue. But when you are playing an interactive game and one of the characters is useless than that character doesn't need to be in the game.

 

[gambolingcat]

Pretty Lampshades are characters that are so useless to the main plot that if you replaced them with a lamp literally no part of the story would change. Usually these are also designated female love interests ( hence the Pretty in the name ) but you could use this descriptor for loner types as well.

I had no idea there was a term for this! Yes, I think the three of us are on the same page about these types; they're just a bit hard to isolate and define.

 

[SP3CT3R]

Being required to use face claims. I've roleplayed on countless forums, but this is the only site where finding an image for your character's appearance is the norm as opposed to writing a description and I'm bad at it! I don't know the thought process of most people here but I usually dream up my character's appearance, and if necessary, try to find artwork that matches. Of course, my character designs are usually quite eclectic, so I often have to rewrite a character's appearance entirely to make it work.

 

[EmmyKpop]

• When my partner's replies are influenced by our discussions. I love to discuss plot and things, but people will turn around to make their character suddenly know what's going on without reason whatsoever. Beats the whole purpose of plot and everything!
• When I can tell my partner doesn't read my side of the roleplay. If my partner isn't going to put effort into my side, then I'm not going to bother with theirs.
• The people that let their own personality and opinions affect characters and what goes on inside a roleplay.
• When my partner expects me to initiate everything - no!
• When people ask for a long term roleplay, which really is me waiting on them for months. A long term roleplay is a role play you dedicate yourself to and roleplay for a long time.

 

[cuddlefish]

• When my partner's replies are influenced by our discussions. I love to discuss plot and things, but people will turn around to make their character suddenly know what's going on without reason whatsoever. Beats the whole purpose of plot and everything!

metagaming is also a big turnoff, yes.

for example, if i said that A's prized belly lint was secretly hidden in a government facility in an oceanic trench, B would somehow instantly find out where it was despite me not telling him in-character where the belly lint was. pretty much an instant "screw this i'm out" scenario for me.

 

[EllyGloom]

Speaking of this, i forgot there was one HUUUUUGE deal breaker


"Biography: You'll find out in the rp.


Personality: You'll find out in the rp"


Mfw


View attachment 164353

I saw this. Not quite sure why this is a bad thing. I always prefer to learn about a character through story, since some of my stories and characters are build on deception and lies. I personally don't like knowing everything about a character's personality and background before roleplaying with them. It kinda ruins the immersion for me.

 

[Ferociousfeind]

I saw this. Not quite sure why this is a bad thing. I always prefer to learn about a character through story, since some of my stories and characters are build on deception and lies. I personally don't like knowing everything about a character's personality and background before roleplaying with them. It kinda ruins the immersion for me.

It's not just to kill the fun, it's to weed out lazy roleplayers. Saying "you'll find out in the rp" is just plain bad character writing. Oooh, he's so edgy, you'll just have to talk to him to find out. No, I won't tell you, or you, or the GM before the RP starts. You'll just have to trust I can write and I won't ghost on you all.

 

[EllyGloom]

It's not just to kill the fun, it's to weed out lazy roleplayers. Saying "you'll find out in the rp" is just plain bad character writing. Oooh, he's so edgy, you'll just have to talk to him to find out. No, I won't tell you, or you, or the GM before the RP starts. You'll just have to trust I can write and I won't ghost on you all.

I get that, but are there any techniques to show you're not a bad character maker without doing this? I refuse to fully explain my character, and I generally don't read other back stories either. I could put a little scene or something, but coming from a World of Darkness background, twists and unexpected surprises make the story feel so much more real to me.

I mean.. if my players knew the true nature of half of my NPCs, it would drastically alter the decisions they made in games and roleplays.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I get that, but are there any techniques to show you're not a bad character maker without doing this? I refuse to fully explain my character, and I generally don't read other back stories either. I could put a little scene or something, but coming from a World of Darkness background, twists and unexpected surprises make the story feel so much more real to me.

I mean.. if my players knew the true nature of half of my NPCs, it would drastically alter the decisions they made in games and roleplays.

Ah but there is a difference between having a NPC be kept in the dark for plot purposes and having playable characters with no backstory at all.

Thats one of the key differences between roleplays and books. A book is a medium in which you ( the reader ) are a passive participant to a story that is stagnant and already complete. A roleplay on the other hand ( especially a forum based roleplay ) is an interactive experience in which the players ( and either their partners or the GM ) are creating the story TOGETHER. So characters can't just pop up out of the ether with no background and no qualifications.

That being said if you want to add a twist to your character that no one ( other than the GM ) sees coming you can do so. But that does not mean you get to be like ( hehehe I'm not writing the backstory so you all have to go with whatever bullshit I write up on the fly )

No if it is a planned part of your character you should at the very least have some kind of basic overview in mind. So give people that overview.

You don't have to write an autobiography to just be like

Character likes to tell the story of their background thusly -- blah blah whatever they tell people is their background here.
But the truth is a little more complicated ( and will be revealed later with GM permission )

 

[EllyGloom]

Ah but there is a difference between having a NPC be kept in the dark for plot purposes and having playable characters with no backstory at all.

Thats one of the key differences between roleplays and books. A book is a medium in which you ( the reader ) are a passive participant to a story that is stagnant and already complete. A roleplay on the other hand ( especially a forum based roleplay ) is an interactive experience in which the players ( and either their partners or the GM ) are creating the story TOGETHER. So characters can't just pop up out of the ether with no background and no qualifications.

That being said if you want to add a twist to your character that no one ( other than the GM ) sees coming you can do so. But that does not mean you get to be like ( hehehe I'm not writing the backstory so you all have to go with whatever bullshit I write up on the fly )

No if it is a planned part of your character you should at the very least have some kind of basic overview in mind. So give people that overview.

You don't have to write an autobiography to just be like

Character likes to tell the story of their background thusly -- blah blah whatever they tell people is their background here.
But the truth is a little more complicated ( and will be revealed later with GM permission )

Couldn't I just write it in first person so they can lie about stuff without the audience knowing? It feels like this weird taboo that doesn't make sense to me. I improvise, and my characters frequently defy their demeanor because situations change. It's why I dislike the alignment chart in D&D and I prefer the humanity/hierarchy of sins in VtM.

If a person playing a royal guard knows that my character is an assassin sent to take out the Prince and frame the Princess, it's gonna be a HUGE spoiler.

Or if I have a demon in disguise who is attempting to get close to a hockey player to have a child with him to fulfill a prophecy.

There -HAS- to be another acceptable way to do this stuff other than discussing key points in a characters true intentions and background, right?

On a side note, I have had great experiences leaving my backstory open so I can retroactively incorporate stuff from other RPers into it. But I'mma make a topic about this, don't wanna get too far off topic of OP!

 

[Shagranoz]

Just had an ugly one. Come home from work last night ready to write up a female character except... gm posted while I was away that no more females will be accepted. Can't write males for shit, so my only option is to make a trans character, except... none of the characters I want to play fit into the newly announced roles. Sorry, I'm not going to have you define who I can play. At that point, the GM should just write the damn story herself and not drag us along for the ride.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Couldn't I just write it in first person so they can lie about stuff without the audience knowing? It feels like this weird taboo that doesn't make sense to me. I improvise, and my characters frequently defy their demeanor because situations change. It's why I dislike the alignment chart in D&D and I prefer the humanity/hierarchy of sins in VtM.

If a person playing a royal guard knows that my character is an assassin sent to take out the Prince and frame the Princess, it's gonna be a HUGE spoiler.

Or if I have a demon in disguise who is attempting to get close to a hockey player to have a child with him to fulfill a prophecy.

There -HAS- to be another acceptable way to do this stuff other than discussing key points in a characters true intentions and background, right?

On a side note, I have had great experiences leaving my backstory open so I can retroactively incorporate stuff from other RPers into it. But I'mma make a topic about this, don't wanna get too far off topic of OP!

Well I think you might be misunderstanding the differences in the medium.

1. A character sheet in a forum roleplay is purely for the players and the GM. None of the played characters should have any knowledge of what is written in the character sheet. That is actually an entirely separate dealbreaker known as godmodding. And people HATE it.

2. So that being the case the GM isn't going to be using any of the information you write in your background for plot purposes. They are merely looking at the character's background to determine that you understand the lore and that you have made a character that fits into the roleplay. It is also designed to judge whether or not you have actually put any effort into your character as well.

3. It is not an autobiography. You are just giving the overview of your character. If you have information you truly don't wish other players to know for whatever reason but is still relevant to the plot than you can tell the GM and the GM alone. The reason you must do this is because it is the GM's world/plot line. So if you go around creating things that are going to mess that up than you should probably warn them ahead of time.

4. Again there is a difference between what a player is aware of and what a character is aware of. None of your above examples are invalidated by a backstory. Because once again the Prince/Princess wouldn't be aware your character is an assassin unless you gave them an indication IN THE ROLEPLAY. The hockey player wouldn't know about the prophecy unless that prophecy is mentioned in the roleplay itself.

Now if that is the case and these characters magically gain that knowledge from the character sheet than they are all godmodding and that's a failure on their parts. And you have every right to be pissed at the players for ruining your story line because they absolutely shouldn't be doing that.

A character sheet is not actually used by anyone but the player themselves and the GM as a means of determining who is allowed into the roleplay. If anything else is used it should only be with permission from you as the player.

And again there is nothing to say you couldn't ask the GM if you couldn't just tell them the background.

The original complaint was when people put NO backstory whatsoever and just decided to make random crap happen to cause problems. If you have a pre-planned twist for your character than by all means ask the GM if you can do it and take it from there. If they say no - well it's their world and they can allow whomever / whatever they want in it.

 

[Marira]

fair enough. I think sometimes people just get like weird about mute characters. like making your character unable to talk means they have to be this dead weight on the rolepay. and it's like um no. mute people can communicate. or non-human sentient creatures or whatever the case may be.

the problem is more when your character is an annoying asshole who doesn't participate OR a doormat who doesn't participate. It's less a physical thing and more of a participation issue.

I have actually rp'd a mute character before, and, albeit somewhat challenging, that turned out to be a lot of fun to work with. I had to rely heavily on my character's actions (i.e. gestures and facial expression) seeing as her method of visual communication was rather gruesome and essentially fell into the self-harm route.

 

[EllyGloom]

Oh! So I could privately send it to the GM and ask it's not shown to players?

And I'm confused on the "godmodding" thing. Though it might be different than tabletop and MMO roleplaying. What you described is called "metagaming" in those other communities. Also in those communities, "godmodding" is declaring actions for another character, or overpowering opposition in an unrealistic manner.

Furthermore, players having knowledge about a specific event in the back story of another could lead to subtle metagaming. For example, if the other player was in love with my character who had disassociative identity disorder, and they were hunting down a killer that was my character's other personality, when confronted by her, it would absolutely impact the outcome of the scenario, and the surprise wouldn't be there.

Kinda like if you knew Snape wasn't actually a bad guy, or that Gannon is actually the real hero of Hyrule.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Oh! So I could privately send it to the GM and ask it's not shown to players?

And I'm confused on the "godmodding" thing. Though it might be different than tabletop and MMO roleplaying. What you described is called "metagaming" in those other communities. Also in those communities, "godmodding" is declaring actions for another character, or overpowering opposition in an unrealistic manner.

Furthermore, players having knowledge about a specific event in the back story of another could lead to subtle metagaming. For example, if the other player was in love with my character who had disassociative identity disorder, and they were hunting down a killer that was my character's other personality, when confronted by her, it would absolutely impact the outcome of the scenario, and the surprise wouldn't be there.

Kinda like if you knew Snape wasn't actually a bad guy, or that Gannon is actually the real hero of Hyrule.

Your correct I mispoke it's metagaming not godmodding.

But again you're misunderstanding the distinction between players and characters.

Using your example. It's fine if the passive reader who is just moving along with an already complete story dictated by the writer doesn't know that Snape is a Death Eater.

If however the GM who is the person who is in charge of the plot and world doesn't know that Snape is a Death Eater than that's a problem. Because you as the person playing Snape have no way of knowing what plot the GM has in mind for the story and it's entirely possible that making Snape a Death Eater would interfere with that.

Furthermore if the PLAYERS know that Snape is a Death Eater that is not the same as the CHARACTERS knowing that Snape is a Death Eater.

Think of it like re-reading the books after that initially reveal. You the reader will know that Snape is a Death Eater. However the characters obviously do not because they are still stuck using the information that is being given to them in the story.

Also the GM isn't showing the character sheet to anyone. Your making it and putting it in the character thread. If you wish to leave parts of it blank in the thread you can ask the GM but I don't know if they'll allow you to get away with writing nothing. Which again was the original point.

I mean because again this is a interactive game but the GM can't just be catering to your need to keep your character a secret. If they let you get away with having a hidden background than they have to let that open to everyone. And while you might have a genuinely well-crafted background surprise I can just about guaratee you no one else will. So if the GM isn't going to allow Tom, Dick, and Harry to get away with not putting out a backstory they can't let you Saathiel do it without looking like their playing favorites.

I mean it's possible. And you can certainly always ask. But I wouldn't count on being the exception to the rules.

( sorry that came out a little bitter but from my time as a group GM I do so remember those prima donna players who were convinced their player was too super special to be revealed to the common masses. i mean sure it doesn't seem like a big deal when it's one person who seems like they have their shit together. but then you open the flood gates to an endless sea of whiney prima donnas and it's just not worth it from a GM perspective. )

 

[simj26]

read other back stories

Aye, but unless it wasn't submitted through PM, it is a big no-no on my end since they can easily just bullshit their way through anything. An open-ended backstory basically means that the character can be anything between a Miss Universe winner to the most bestest ninja samurai robot of all time, and can easily just pull one out of their ass when a situation seems dire.

 

[EllyGloom]

Aye, but unless it wasn't submitted through PM, it is a big no-no on my end since they can easily just bullshit their way through anything. An open-ended backstory basically means that the character can be anything between a Miss Universe winner to the most bestest ninja samurai robot of all time, and can easily just pull one out of their ass when a situation seems dire.

I think it's maybe a difference in mediums. When I create a character, I stay true to them, but I leave irrelevant details open ended. For example, I had a character I played for several years in WoW. I never listed her family members, because they were largely irrelevant to her story. Eventually I met another draenei and without missing a beat, it turns out she was one of my character's few remaining relatives!

Also, I tend to play characters across servers and settings. For example, my WoW goblin is her own character, but I use adventures from GTA Online for her back story. Things that haven't even happened yet, because I'm playing both games at the same time. I adapt the stuff from GTA to match the lore and background of Kezan to make it fit nicely together.

I totally understand the divide between character knowledge and player knowledge, but if playing a deceitful character that brings conflict into a group is know to be the villain, the players will plot and plan how to defeat her once everything comes to light, giving them a greater foresight than they should have. Again, I think this is a difference in mediums. I'm in unfamiliar territory with forum based roleplay.

I view roleplay as like an interactive anime or film. Where decisions made influence the outcome of the story, and sometimes your character ends up WAY off the mark where you intended for them to be. The unexpected and the terrifying chaos involves so much excitement and thrill. Like that time my character was plotting against others for over a year of time IRL, only to be double-crossed by someone she thought was under her control. She was left alone and abandoned, and no one would believe her when she told everyone that the person who destroyed her was actually out to get everyone else too.

 

[EllyGloom]

BUT back on topic. What kills a roleplay for me is when someone plays a character that is the savior/destroyer of the world, and one of, if not the most important person in the setting.

Drives me crazy. I love simple characters. I prefer RPing with a Mercutio or Benvolio over a Romeo or Juliette.

Or when someone doesn't properly balance benefits and flaws.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Yeeah I think it's just must be a different in experience or you're misunderstanding what a backstory is.

You can make a backstory and not need to explain every singular detail about your character. If you want to make a plot twist later ( example the missing relatives example ) that isn't actually covered in most backstories.

It's not here is the life and times of Character X starting with birth and going through each and every one of their life experiences leading up to the beginning of the roleplay. Along with an entire family tree going back five generations as well as every secret and lie they ever told.

It's - here's a paragraph giving you the basic overview of character x. who they are as a person, what their general life experiences are, and how they fit into the story. The rest will be fleshed out as the story goes on.

Ex. Fauna and Flora are twin albinos who are each gifted with a strong natural magic. They do not dwell overmuch on their life before coming to the magical community preferring to pretend their life started the day they walked into their new home and met their foster parents. They are a bit impish at times and they have a powerful connection to their siblings, forged by shared past experiences.

( now usually the full backstory will be a touch longer but you get the general idea. I've left some points open that can be revealed later in the roleplay. Namely how / why they are so close to their siblings, what their past life was, etc. )

But at the same time I'm giving enough information that I have a foundation for any future twists and the GM can understand that I have some understanding of the basis of the story.

( It's possible the GM themselves might ask for specifics but I think we can both agree that the GM knowing things for story purposes isn't that big of a deal )

 

[EllyGloom]

Yeeah I think it's just must be a different in experience or you're misunderstanding what a backstory is.

You can make a backstory and not need to explain every singular detail about your character. If you want to make a plot twist later ( example the missing relatives example ) that isn't actually covered in most backstories.

It's not here is the life and times of Character X starting with birth and going through each and every one of their life experiences leading up to the beginning of the roleplay. Along with an entire family tree going back five generations as well as every secret and lie they ever told.

It's - here's a paragraph giving you the basic overview of character x. who they are as a person, what their general life experiences are, and how they fit into the story. The rest will be fleshed out as the story goes on.

Ex. Fauna and Flora are twin albinos who are each gifted with a strong natural magic. They do not dwell overmuch on their life before coming to the magical community preferring to pretend their life started the day they walked into their new home and met their foster parents. They are a bit impish at times and they have a powerful connection to their siblings, forged by shared past experiences.

( now usually the full backstory will be a touch longer but you get the general idea. I've left some points open that can be revealed later in the roleplay. Namely how / why they are so close to their siblings, what their past life was, etc. )

But at the same time I'm giving enough information that I have a foundation for any future twists and the GM can understand that I have some understanding of the basis of the story.

( It's possible the GM themselves might ask for specifics but I think we can both agree that the GM knowing things for story purposes isn't that big of a deal )

OOOOOOOH! So I can omit the part where they're a lying, thieving monster of a person who is bent on backstabbing everyone they encounter as a means of self preservation do to being hurt and taken advantage for a majority of their life? Well that makes sense. Just some generic details about how they fit into the world. I was thinking you had to put everything in there. XP

 

[rae2nerdy]

OOOOOOOH! So I can omit the part where they're a lying, thieving monster of a person who is bent on backstabbing everyone they encounter as a means of self preservation do to being hurt and taken advantage for a majority of their life? Well that makes sense. Just some generic details about how they fit into the world. I was thinking you had to put everything in there. XP

Yeah I mean lying might be mentioned in the personality section but it can just be as simple as - Player X has a tendency to bend the truth/lie.
You don't have to give like a full reasoning on WHY or even really what kind of lies they tell.

Same with any personality trait or backstory point. The character sheet is just meant to give the GM an overview so they know you aren't making some overpowered monstrocity OR like dropping a pretty fairy princess in a dark and gritty detective story.

( seriously you would think character creation wouldn't be that hard of a thing to get right but I'll never forget the time someone wanted to put a sentient wolf and elven princess in a x-men roleplay. like....uh no )

 

[Ferociousfeind]

First, a reply to Saathiel.

the players will plot and plan how to defeat her once everything comes to light, giving them a greater foresight than they should have.

This is a bad thing, and you should call those players out on that.
You call it "server roleplaying", I call it "bad sportsmanship". This is most likely a difference in expectations. On a forum, you have plenty of time to formulate a response, and multiple threads for in-character and out-of-character chatter. The fourth wall is very strong, and breaking it is frowned upon. You can't "miss a beat" because you're probably the only one online at that moment, and the proverbial heart here is beating about once an hour. In a game, be it WoW, GTA 5, Minecraft, CoD, etcetera, you don't have a lot of time because everyone's there. You can freeze up and you'll have to roll with it as a character's quirk. You can't play multiple characters because the game gives you only one avatar to use. The fourth wall is weak and often broken, because there's no in-game distinction between in-character and out-of-character.

Forum roleplay are more professional, more structured, more rigorous, while being somewhat less demanding because you can always take a break for a day to do things in real life and nobody will notice you ever left the keyboard.

In forum roleplays it is generally expected that everyone is in on the plot, and the characters remain totally unaware. You should be able to say in the OOC chat that your character is an FBI agent, and someone else's character should still drunkenly flirt with them, because the character doesn't know they're actually an FBI agent. In fact, sometimes stating those things can help your partners interact with your character in more interesting ways. We're here to have fun, not to win a D&D campaign.

That being said, I absolutely hate past tense roleplaying. I know where it comes from, a phobia of god-modding, but come on! If you say, "she would grab a gun, and would fire three bullets towards the man," then I'm tempted to say, "No, she would not!"
It's aggravating, every single time. Please use present tense. "She grabs a gun and fires three bullets at the guy." This is okay. This doesn't violate anyone's character. What you're trying to avoid is landing the punch, not throwing it. "She grabs a gun and nails three bullets squarely in his chest," is not okay. Don't do that. But also don't tell us what she would do, tell us what she does do. Please.

 

[Platypus]

If you say, "she would grab a gun, and would fire three bullets towards the man," then I'm tempted to say, "No, she would not!"
It's aggravating, every single time. Please use present tense. "She grabs a gun and fires three bullets at the guy." This is okay

Maybe it's just me being stupid, but I see absolutely no reason why the first version is worse than the second one.