Advice/Help Why this want for third person?

[loveablelorrie]

I've noticed on several partner requests etc that people are doing third person roleplay, I tend to do first person or second people like She or He etc. a bit confused on why people prefer this? I mean it been a while since I took creative writing in college so I'm a bit mixed up. I'm assuming third person is saying the person did this as in describing them from an outsider perspective but not sure why the need to do that all the time? how do you get close to the character build a storyline relationship or anything if its all looking in.

 

[rae2nerdy]

It is the way novels are written and thus the way most people learned how to roleplay. It's pretty much just as simple as that.

THIRD PERSON EXAMPLE
Adley rolled his eyes as he listened to Titus and Daphne argue over who would win in a fight, Lodestar or Shake Down. The two muscle bound behemoths were likely to give everyone a real life demonstration in a few days if management didn't keep them in their separate corners. Adley for one was more concerned about the inevitable civilian fall out than which idiot punched harder."

 

[loveablelorrie]

oh I guess i learned to roleplay mixing things up not just third . what happens when your in a personal roleplay with a partner dont you skip to second or first person

 

[Seabourne]

nope, even in 1x1s people often prefer to rp in third person. It's just a lot like writing, and, in my own opinion, more comfortable to read. I dislike books being in first person as well, and third person feels easier to follow. Of course you can feel differently, but thats my insight.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Oh not at all. 1x1s aren't written any differently than groups they just have fewer players.

First person in general gets very confusing when you try to read over it in roleplays. The point of first person is to get you in the head of a SINGULAR protagonist. When you have multiple points of view having everyone using "I did X and I think Y" can get really confusing and difficult to follow.

Second person I don't think would be two difficult it is just not something a lot of people are familiar with and thus most people would find it harder to write than third or even first person point of view.

Also in general I find in 1x1s that using the first person perspective makes me uncomfortable because it makes me feel like my partner is going to over-identify with their characters. I don't have any real concrete reason for feeling that it's just something that makes me nervous.

 

[loveablelorrie]

im just confused by all of this i mean i guess i used third person but then i switch to natural conversation and second person to say She and He etc. for some reason all third person feels like i writing a story about someone verses writing out their story personally and having a dialouge and story with someone Im roleplaying with. I'm not writing a book im writing out a storyline with someone.

I watch alot of soaps etc

 

[Simon_Hawk]

I enjoy both formats, The Dresden Files books are all in first person format written by Jim Butcher. It makes me feel like I'm along for the ride when Harry Dresden is out on his missions. But the Drizzt Do'Urden series of books written by R.A. Salvatore are in standard novel format, they allow for multiple scenes and perspectives from a variety of characters from both Protagonist and Antagonist. Both formats have their uses depending on what story you want to tell and how comfortable you feel as a writer.

 

[loveablelorrie]

see i feel old now cause i have no interest at all in the harry potter stuff they seem juvenile to me. i mean when i see someone say third person only i feel like they are going to get mad at me if i slip into second or first person at all just seems strict to me, im trying to understand this all. ive been roleplaying in chat roleplay sites where they all have pictures and each has their own roleplay style to use. never really paid attention to others just mine focused on my own storys.

good answer simon.

 

[rae2nerdy]

im just confused by all of this i mean i guess i used third person but then i switch to natural conversation and second person to say She and He etc. for some reason all third person feels like i writing a story about someone verses writing out their story personally and having a dialouge and story with someone Im roleplaying with. I'm not writing a book im writing out a storyline with someone.

I watch alot of soaps etc

I mean you can use whatever you are most comfortable with. Just because it's not as popular doesn't mean that no one else does it. You just might have to look a bit longer to find someone who shares your style that's all.

 

[loveablelorrie]

It is the way novels are written and thus the way most people learned how to roleplay. It's pretty much just as simple as that.

THIRD PERSON EXAMPLE
Adley rolled his eyes as he listened to Titus and Daphne argue over who would win in a fight, Lodestar or Shake Down. The two muscle bound behemoths were likely to give everyone a real life demonstration in a few days if management didn't keep them in their separate corners. Adley for one was more concerned about the inevitable civilian fall out than which idiot punched harder."

see when i read that i would want to after the first mention of their name say He not always use names i mean once names are established the reader she know who they are talking about if hes still talking from his perspective

 

[rae2nerdy]

see i feel old now cause i have no interest at all in the harry potter stuff they seem juvenile to me. i mean when i see someone say third person only i feel like they are going to get mad at me if i slip into second or first person at all just seems strict to me, im trying to understand this all. ive been roleplaying in chat roleplay sites where they all have pictures and each has their own roleplay style to use. never really paid attention to others just mine focused on my own storys.

good answer simon.

lol Harry DRESDEN is an book series written by Jim Butcher and follows an adult Wizard named Harry Dresden as he solves crimes and such in Chicago. It's pretty different to Harry POTTER which is a series written by JK Rowling that mainly focuses on a British Wizard and his schooling ( well until the last few books )

(edited for clarity)

 

[loveablelorrie]

I mean you can use whatever you are most comfortable with. Just because it's not as popular doesn't mean that no one else does it. You just might have to look a bit longer to find someone who shares your style that's all.

im open to trying it i just dont want the partner mad if i happen to slip up into other styles cause im just writing along without thinking it through letting my thoughts get on the screen and out. yeah not into wizards ok.

 

[rae2nerdy]

see when i read that i would want to after the first mention of their name say He not always use names i mean once names are established the reader she know who they are talking about if hes still talking from his perspective

I'm a little confused. Maybe if you write an example of what your talking about that would help.

Also people don't in general get mad at you as long as you respect their requests. So if they specifically request third person and you can't write it than don't join that roleplay. If however they don't specifically state third person than just ask the GM/other person if they're okay with you writing in first person. People like it when you are clear and communicate with them.

For instance personally I don't care what tense you write in as long as I can read it and you give me something to respond to. And there are a few other people on this site that I'm sure would feel the same as long as you were up front with them.

 

[loveablelorrie]

Jessie had a long night filled with haunting memories of her past love and a life she had lived. She had lost the love of her life and people expected her to move on, but it wasn't that easy to forget a love so deep and true. Sure she plastered on a smile and pretended she wasn't hurting inside but soon others would be able to see the toll the sleepless nights were taking on her.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Jessie had a long night filled with haunting memories of her past love and a life she had lived. She had lost the love of her life and people expected her to move on, but it wasn't that easy to forget a love so deep and true. Sure she plastered on a smile and pretended she wasn't hurting inside but soon others would be able to see the toll the sleepless nights were taking on her.

And that is third person. So you're good.

 

[loveablelorrie]

Oh I got confused silly me thanks for the clarification

 

[Idea]

Third person is just a preference. There isn't really an objective reason, as much as many reasons of what people are more comfortable with, or just outright can get their head around. And yeah it sucks for us first person roleplayers that not everyone is willing to take us in, but in the end of the day there are still plenty who are quite willing to work with you, especially if you prove yourself to just be a nice person to be around.

 

[Daisie]

First person past tense example:
I walked over to the fridge, opening it to reveal the contents inside. My mind was solely on the subject of food, though in the fridge, only leftovers were to be seen. It was clear that I would soon starve.

Second person past tense example:
You walked over to the fridge, opening it to reveal the contents inside. Your mind was solely on the subject of food, though in the fridge, only leftovers were to be seen. It was clear that you would soon starve.

Third person past tense example:
He walked over to the fridge, opening it to reveal the contents inside. His mind was solely on the subject of food, though in the fridge, only leftovers were to be seen. It was clear that he would soon starve.

Hope that cleared some things up c:

 

[Morphasia]

I think a lot of people venture into the uncanny when people use First Person / Second Person point of view.

A lot of people aren't roleplaying to roleplay real people / self inserts / "You" and "I."

People in roleplays that use third person generally try to heavily focus on the aspect that you are playing characters. People phasing into first and second person give a feel to the roleplay that you aren't playing those characters anymore-- you're playing yourself, and you're expecting the other person to play themself, if that makes sense?

I heavily dislike the implication that people are self-projecting into a roleplay (that's probably also why I don't enjoy doing things with canon x oc roleplays too, I guess?) so I'll never partake in a roleplay that uses first and second person. It doesn't feel like a cohesive storyline roleplay then, and just feels like someone seeking some strange self insert satisfaction

 

[Idea]

I think a lot of people venture into the uncanny when people use First Person / Second Person point of view.

A lot of people aren't roleplaying to roleplay real people / self inserts / "You" and "I."

Well, as a first person roleplayer myself, I can very much tell you that first person roleplayers don't project any more than any other kind of roleplayers. I won't deny that there are many that do, but neither do they project more nor in more frequency than third person roleplayers.

Now if you say that it is just a feeling you get and not something you actually, in your head, think it's true, then that's ok. Certain emotions just aren't rationally based or controllable. However, that first person roleplayers are in any way trying to project themselves more or try for self inserts more or anything like that is pure and utter myth.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Idea I believe the problem is in how first person is read.

First person is designed to be read as self-insertion. You are meant to insert yourself into the shoes of the character and they are your avatar through the story. The problem is that in roleplay this feels awkward. Mostly because there are usually two or more characters that are meant to get equal billing in terms of their importance to the story.

And if both characters are in first person point of view it just reads badly. Very few people write characters as uniquely as they think they do so if every character is put in the same self-insertion perspective than it starts to feel like one person doing all the actions.

Now if it is one character in first person and one character in third person the way it reads gets lopsided. Because you have one character who is designed to be a self-insertion / avatar for the readers and then you have one character that is meant to be read with a little more distance. So then just through contrast the first person character seems like more of a self-insert.

But that isn't a bad thing. If anything your first person character being a self-insert means your writing them properly. The difference I think is in execution. First Person Self-Inserts are just a product of their writing style. A Sue-Insert is where the writer makes a character that is an idealized version of themselves that lives out their fantasies.

I would say the problem is that in first person the two entities look very similar. The only way to tell the difference is by the OOC actions of the player. Which is obviously hard to tell from the outside.

 

[Idea]

First person is designed to be read as self-insertion. You are meant to insert yourself into the shoes of the character and they are your avatar through the story. The problem is that in roleplay this feels awkward. Mostly because there are usually two or more characters that are meant to get equal billing in terms of their importance to the story.

And if both characters are in first person point of view it just reads badly. Very few people write characters as uniquely as they think they do so if every character is put in the same self-insertion perspective than it starts to feel like one person doing all the actions.

Now if it is one character in first person and one character in third person the way it reads gets lopsided. Because you have one character who is designed to be a self-insertion / avatar for the readers and then you have one character that is meant to be read with a little more distance. So then just through contrast the first person character seems like more of a self-insert.

But that isn't a bad thing. If anything your first person character being a self-insert means your writing them properly. The difference I think is in execution. First Person Self-Inserts are just a product of their writing style. A Sue-Insert is where the writer makes a character that is an idealized version of themselves that lives out their fantasies.

I would say the problem is that in first person the two entities look very similar. The only way to tell the difference is by the OOC actions of the player. Which is obviously hard to tell from the outside.

I won't say that you can read it that way, but it is not inherent to the style nor part of intentions of most first person writers, from my experience (granted, I haven't met a lot of them besides myself, however the only word to the contrary has been given to me by people who refuse to or avoid writing with someone who does so in first person).

Among the reasons (such as actually finding it less confusing to roleplay and read in first person due to pronouns) I roleplay in first person is because I roleplay within the character's own perspective. It feels more immersive to me to use the way the character would actually think of and see things. It is meant to do the exact opposite of self-inserts: To reinforce the character's perspective as their own personal way of looking at things, and making the character stand better as their own person.

It might, perhaps, be true that in BOOKS first person is used for self-insertion. But roleplayers and book writers, just like roleplaying and writing a book, are not one to one parallels.

So, I state this once again: You may read it as if it were more of a self-insertion, and you may feel that because of that things can get awkward with a first person roleplayer. That's your perspective, and though it might suck for us it's not something I have any say about. However, it is a myth that first roleplayers are in any way shape or form more prone to self-inserts.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Idea the problem is I think you are assuming your own perspective when it comes to how people READ. I am not talking about the myth that first person perspective is prone to sue-inserts (which is where the author is attempting to push themselves into the narrative). That is something that all writing styles are prone to.

I am saying that when people read first person they see a style that is written in such a way that the reader is supposed to insert themselves into the character. They are supposed to use the character as a means by which they experience the actions of the story. These are all good things.

While roleplay might be WRITTEN differently than books it is still read the same way. A third person perspective in roleplays is meant to be read in the same way you read a third person passage in a book. The same is true of first person.

That said very few books will switch from first person to third person and back again precisely because it is difficult to read. The same is true with the fact that I have never read a book that has multiple first person perspectives. I imagine it too would be difficult to read.

Also as you appear to have missed my point last time let me break it down again.

I am NOT saying that first person perspective is the author inserting themselves into the story to hijack the roleplay.

I am saying that first person perspective is meant to insert the READER into the action. And that it can get confusing from the READER's perspective if their are multiple different points of view competing in a roleplay. It also gets confusing for the READER when all the characters are first person because most roleplay writers are just not that good at writing different character voices. It's not a dig at people that is just an observation.

I am not saying don't use first person or that using first person is bad. I am saying it's confusing to read, but so what? It's not like people can't ask questions if they're confused. Honestly that's what I do if someone writes a post that is confusing for me to read, I just ask for clarification and move on.

 

[Idea]

the problem is I think you are assuming your own perspective when it comes to how people READ. I am not talking about the myth that first person perspective is prone to sue-inserts (which is where the author is attempting to push themselves into the narrative). That is something that all writing styles are prone to.

I'll admit, I did misunderstand your point. Though to be fair, that's because you started talking about how people read inserted into a discussion where I had already stated that I was not trying to stick my nose into people's own perspectives, only dismissing the myth that people who roleplay in first person actually do any of the things that said perspectives might imply, any more than any other style of roleplay (so I am not saying you can feel or read it as if it was more self-insert, only that first person roleplayers don't write more self-insert content than any other kind of roleplayer).

 

[rae2nerdy]

I'll admit, I did misunderstand your point. Though to be fair, that's because you started talking about how people read inserted into a discussion where I had already stated that I was not trying to stick my nose into people's own perspectives, only dismissing the myth that people who roleplay in first person actually do any of the things that said perspectives might imply, any more than any other style of roleplay (so I am not saying you can feel or read it as if it was more self-insert, only that first person roleplayers don't write more self-insert content than any other kind of roleplayer).

And I was actually trying to show you how making the argument into one of reading comprehension actually gets your point across better than dismissing it. Because the main reason the myth exists is BECAUSE of reading comprehension. People read a first person character as something they are supposed to put themselves into. So they naturally assume because they (the reader) are using the character as an insert than the player must be doing the same. But since roleplay isn't a passive reading experience that sense that both people are inserting into the character can feel a little like the first person player trying to take over unintentionally.

So I think if you address people by saying - Hey I know it reads X way but I promise all I'm trying to do is just get myself into the mind of the character and hopefully bring you along too.

Than you might actually get somewhere. Because you'll force people to really think about what it is that's bothering them about the first person perspective (I can about guarantee it's 90% of the time just how it's read).