Character Theory What's with people using images to describe their character's appearance?

[Umbrie]

actually, ensuring the character fits in the world and the story is the job of neither the game master nor the player in question, it is meant to be a mutual collaborative job shared between both of them, both sides have to meet in the middle. if some random player wants to play an angel in your roleplay, and you don't wish to deal with an angel, ask them which specific facets they associate with the angel they wish to embody. if they just want to play a goodie two shoes with intense naivete and a desire to please others, any species could do that. if they want to play a holy warrior, maybe a knight of a specific religious order is more their style. if they want to be a magical healer, point them to some form of healing magic and tell them they don't need to be an angel to heal. the key, is not to ban the concept entirely, but to work with what specific facets of the concept the player truly wants.


ask your players, which 3-5 things they want from their character.


if i play an older character that appears younger than they are. it because i know


1. i want the character to be cute and youthful in an innocent way


2. i want the character to have the education and common sense to make rational decisions


3. i want the character to have enough competence in their field to be capable of contributing their fair share of help to a party of adventuring adults without outshining them to the point of making them useless or underperforming to the point of being a burden to them


4. i want them to use their youth as a means to nurture endearment from others. this is especially true of sickly or clumsy characters. not that i personally seek sympathy, but i will actually invest points in charisma to reflect this


5. i know the character isn't going to do much when she is grappled due to her smaller size, and i expect that to be her biggest reoccurring time of vulnerability. effectively, because the character has difficulty breaking out of grapples, i am setting up a weakness that will take an arc or few to overcome.

 

[_Line 213]

actually, ensuring the character fits in the world and the story is the job of neither the game master nor the player in question, it is meant to be a mutual collaborative job shared between both of them, both sides have to meet in the middle.

Disagree. GM's world, GM's rules.


Some settings are more flexible than others, and it is by no means a bad thing for the creator of a setting to want to establish some sort of consistency as to what is portrayed within. There was a thread about this already, so I'm not going to repeat my thoughts on the matter outside of the following: if you apply to play in a certain setting, only to submit a character that wouldn't reasonably fit in it, why not just go and find another setting, or make a character that meshes better with everything else going on?

 

[apolla]

Okay, so I'll be honest, I didn't read the majority of this thread so I'm not sure if we're still on the original topic. xD But I wanted to throw my two cents in, because, why not? 


I use images for ALL of my RP characters. Lately I've taken to using GIF's, actually, because I like them. I use them because it helps me get a picture in my head of that person, and I like the imagine the roleplay out in my head as I respond and read my partner's responses. I would rather see a picture than read a long ass description that won't help me put that image in my head. *shrug* I like seeing the pictures. And I do prefer realistic ones over anime ones, because in the roleplays I do, I highly doubt your character has violet eyes (unless they have contacts in) or lavender hair. 


I don't really care for being called lazy because I'm a visual person who prefer's to use pictures. It's kinda rude, just saying. But I respect your opinion.

 

[Umbrie]

Disagree. GM's world, GM's rules.

it might be the GM's World and the GM's rules. but character creation should be a collaborative effort to ensure the character fits. GM and players should communicate and discuss concepts. works better than piling submission after submission, character creation should be more involved than simply the act of submitting a character sheet. a GM should tell a player what tweaks are recommended for their character to fit, but also ensure that the players plays something close to their desired character that fits the GM's world.


say the GM denies Faeries. the GM Should ask the player why they wanted to play a faerie and tweak the concept to better fit. maybe the character wanted to play something youthful and cute with the ability to make rational decisions. so as player, you tell that to the GM and as a player, you are told you can play a shorter and more youthful human whom is older and more mature than they appear to be. maybe you spend points in intelligence and charisma to represent this. so instead of having say a 2,000 year old faerie, you end up with a short and petite 24 year old human whom could pass for a teenager.


i know it is the GM's world and GM's rules. but a GM should ask a player what facets of the character they want to keep, and work on suggesting tweaks the player can use to better fit the character into the setting. but the player should answer why they want to play a particular species or skillset or aesthetic. it is about communication. a player who has a character close to what they wanted in a GM's world is likely to be a happier fit than a GM without a player. maybe in a realistic high school setting, instead of bringing a 11-13 year old who skipped a few grades, you bring somebody who is a short and petite freshman who just transferred. compromise is important. the GM doesn't need to sacrifice their world or their rules, they just need to communicate with the player about what needs to be tweaked to fit the character into the setting.

 

[_Line 213]

it might be the GM's World and the GM's rules. but character creation should be a collaborative effort to ensure the character fits. GM and players should communicate and discuss concepts. works better than piling submission after submission, character creation should be more involved than simply the act of submitting a character sheet. a GM should tell a player what tweaks are recommended for their character to fit, but also ensure that the players plays something close to their desired character that fits the GM's world.

Okay, but this is just your personal preference.


If a GM puts up an interest check, and says, "bring X," and you decide that you're going to bring Y instead, that isn't the GM's problem. That's the player's problem for deciding that they want to do whatever it is they want to do. The GM isn't obligated to do anything. The GM can easily tap the entry sign and say, "I said bring X, not Y." If your friend called you and said, "hey, a bunch of us are going to play baseball this afternoon," and you show up with a football instead, no one is going to sit down and ask you why you want to play football and what elements can be incorporated into baseball. They're going to say, "dude, we told you we're all playing baseball, why did you bring a football?"


Additionally, a GM should not have to hand-hold a player through the collaborative process. If I put up an interest-check for hard sci-fi, and a player wants to play as a fairy, the player themselves should be capable of figuring out what makes them want to play a fairy, before adjusting their character appropriately. The GM shouldn't have to do that, because if the player is smart and knows what their preferences are, then they should be capable of doing that sort of thing themselves. Distilling a character down to their base elements is one of the most fundamental skills of RP. If a player is attracted to playing a fairy character, or any other sort of character, solely for that single trait, then they need to look elsewhere for that fix.


As far as GMs without players go, assuming that the idea of a work hooks people in the first place, there will almost always be a higher rate of players than there will be GMs, because let's face it, most people only want to play in parks and playgrounds, not build and maintain them. Saying that a GM needs to hand-hold players through their preferences or risk never getting players doesn't really hold water, considering that all players need a GM just as all GMs need players.

 

[Umbrie]

i have been on sites where the roleplayers weren't very bright and pile so many things on to their character that they don't know how to boil things down to the essentials, or aren't familiar enough with a genre to understand it at first. Aniroleplay and Roblox are two of them, the former being worse. and i wouldn't consider it handholding, i consider it collaboration, all roleplay is collaborative storytelling in some form. anybody could theoretically GM a roleplay, though some roleplays tend to be less likely to draw players due to not being one of the dominant genres of the community. if i opened up a generic highschool roleplay in the generic highschool roleplay forum, i agree i would be flooded by hundreds of people by the end of the month.  but some roleplays, like dice roleplays, already have difficulty gathering players. so they have to look for everything they can get to help themselves recruit players.

 

[_Line 213]

i have been on sites where the roleplayers weren't very bright and pile so many things on to their character that they don't know how to boil things down to the essentials, or aren't familiar enough with a genre to understand it at first. Aniroleplay and Roblox are two of them, the former being worse. and i wouldn't consider it handholding, i consider it collaboration, all roleplay is collaborative storytelling in some form. anybody could theoretically GM a roleplay, though some roleplays tend to be less likely to draw players due to not being one of the dominant genres of the community. if i opened up a generic highschool roleplay in the generic highschool roleplay forum, i agree i would be flooded by hundreds of people by the end of the month.  but some roleplays, like dice roleplays, already have difficulty gathering players. so they have to look for everything they can get to help themselves recruit players.

One person's collaboration is another person's hand-holding. Jobs are a collaborative venture, but if you go to your boss every single time you get confused or don't know what to do or want a second opinion or life advice or whatever, your boss is eventually going to get tired of your inability to figure out what to do on your own, and replace you with someone more independent.


The point of me saying that is that collaboration often requires the ability to make one's own choices. The GM already has to create the world, start the story, set the scene, and ensure that everything is running smoothly, and as a result, sometimes they will bank on their players to "just handle" what portions of the initial setup are actually on them (namely, character creation, and sometimes a little bit of secondary worldbuilding in order to facilitate that). Certain aspects of "collaboration" are going to get in the way of that process, and one such aspect is constantly pushing back on someone who, for whatever reason, just couldn't be bothered to make their own choices based on the setting information that was provided. The idea that some things fit into a story and some things do not has been around since storytelling tradition was "formalized" (at least in the western canon) by performance practitioners and philosophers during the high-times of Ancient Greece. The idea that sometimes people should just fit in to a story isn't something that was recently created for the sake of "stifling creativity" or whatever other claim that people like to levy against it. It's just a standard facet of storytelling in general that has been around for thousands of years.


It's one thing to approach a GM and say, "I have an idea I want to run by you." It's another thing to say "I want to play a fairy, tell me how I can play a fairy in your setting." One puts the heavy-lifting on the player, where it should be. The other one just lumps unnecessary work (unfairly, I might add) on the GM. If someone goes to a GM and says, "I want to play <outlandish thing>," most GMs are just going to say, "don't," because most of them don't have time for people that can't make setting-appropriate character choices when it comes to complex, custom-made settings.


As for sites where roleplayers "aren't very bright," in your own words, their problems are self-evident within the context of this discussion.


And as for GMs that create niche roleplays, I again disagree. If you're creating something niche, then chances are you are marketing it for its uniqueness. If a GM was extremely desperate for players, they likely wouldn't make that sort of roleplay, because they would know that it wouldn't pull in the crowd of ten or twenty people that they want. By letting people play "whatever they want," you're ultimately bound to muddy the niche factor of your setting, which would eventually turn it into something that it isn't. Most GMs that create such things realize this (even on this site), which is why they go out of their way to find people that are interested, instead of generalizing their concept into something that would have more widespread appeal.

 

[Umbrie]

It's one thing to approach a GM and say, "I have an idea I want to run by you." It's another thing to say "I want to play a fairy, tell me how I can play a fairy in your setting." One puts the heavy-lifting on the player, where it should be. The other one just lumps unnecessary work (unfairly, I might add) on the GM. If someone goes to a GM and says, "I want to play <outlandish thing>," most GMs are just going to say, "don't," because most of them don't have time for people that can't make setting-appropriate character choices when it comes to complex, custom-made settings.

this part i actually agree with. but i would add, i would rather the player pitch their idea and recieve feedback before they submit the character sheet.

One person's collaboration is another person's hand-holding. Jobs are a collaborative venture, but if you go to your boss every single time you get confused or don't know what to do or want a second opinion or life advice or whatever, your boss is eventually going to get tired of your inability to figure out what to do on your own, and replace you with someone more independent.


The point of me saying that is that collaboration often requires the ability to make one's own choices. The GM already has to create the world, start the story, set the scene, and ensure that everything is running smoothly, and as a result, sometimes they will bank on their players to "just handle" what portions of the initial setup are actually on them (namely, character creation, and sometimes a little bit of secondary worldbuilding in order to facilitate that). Certain aspects of "collaboration" are going to get in the way of that process, and one such aspect is constantly pushing back on someone who, for whatever reason, just couldn't be bothered to make their own choices based on the setting information that was provided. The idea that some things fit into a story and some things do not has been around since storytelling tradition was "formalized" (at least in the western canon) by performance practitioners and philosophers during the high-times of Ancient Greece. The idea that sometimes people should just fit in to a story isn't something that was recently created for the sake of "stifling creativity" or whatever other claim that people like to levy against it. It's just a standard facet of storytelling in general that has been around for thousands of years.

while i agree a roleplayer should be able to provide their own feedback. i disagree that a GM's world and story should be completely without player input. player input is a huge asset, and each player should be expected to help the GM with world building for things pertaining to their character. a GM who refuses to accept player input is putting an excessive burden upon themselves.

 

[_Line 213]

while i agree a roleplayer should be able to provide their own feedback. i disagree that a GM's world and story should be completely without player input. player input is a huge asset, and each player should be expected to help the GM with world building for things pertaining to their character. a GM who refuses to accept player input is putting an excessive burden upon themselves.

A GM's world and story should be completely without player input if they desire their world and story to be completely without player input. A GM cannot be faulted for knowing what they want, and knowing how to do what they want, only for someone else to come in with unwanted or unasked for ideas, just because the player "should be free to." When someone builds a playground, it's only natural that they should be able to set the rules as to how things happen on their property.


But even so, this bypasses the point that I was making initially, which is that people should be capable of making these choices on their own without bothering the GM about them in the first place.

 

[Umbrie]

A GM's world and story should be completely without player input if they desire their world and story to be completely without player input. A GM cannot be faulted for knowing what they want, and knowing how to do what they want, only for someone else to come in with unwanted or unasked for ideas, just because the player "should be free to." When someone builds a playground, it's only natural that they should be able to set the rules as to how things happen on their property.


But even so, this bypasses the point that I was making initially, which is that people should be capable of making these choices on their own without bothering the GM about them in the first place.

not everybody can read a GM's mind. both a player and a GM can unintentionally neglect or forget details whether reading them or writing them. especially on such a massive project as world building.  however, for a GM to attract players, compromise is important. the players in a roleplay are just as important as the game master. i'm not saying players should get away with outlandish things in a game not designed for them, but keeping the players satisfied is how the GM keeps the roleplay continuing. but dice roleplays work differently. dice roleplays depend on having lots of distinct character options. in fact, publishers who sell Dice RPGs, have to load books full of character options and hope somebody buys the book for even just one of them. if a GM wanted full authority over the world and the characters, they should just write a novel. because the moment players enter a roleplay. any hopes of a script are shattered.


Afterthoughts


1. the Moment you allow players to create their own characters in a roleplay, you have already accepted player input. 


2. any roleplay belongs to not only the game master, but to each player involved. even if you have personally blocked them.


3. if you wanted pregenerated characters following an already scripted course of action. go ahead and write a novel.


4.  despite what popular opinion says, a game master with their own player character usually doesn't work out well. the reason is because the character has all the benefit of being a player character that possesses all of the game master's knowledge of the story, even if the game master refuses to admit it.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I think @Umbrie and  @_Line 213  your straying from original point and the topic of this thread.


its is about using anime images in place of character description not what you feel is a proper division of player and GMs creative control on a roleplay.

 

[_Line 213]

not everybody can read a GM's mind. both a player and a GM can unintentionally neglect or forget details whether reading them or writing them. especially on such a massive project as world building.  however, for a GM to attract players, compromise is important. the players in a roleplay are just as important as the game master. i'm not saying players should get away with outlandish things in a game not designed for them, but keeping the players satisfied is how the GM keeps the roleplay continuing. but dice roleplays work differently. dice roleplays depend on having lots of distinct character options. in fact, publishers who sell Dice RPGs, have to load books full of character options and hope somebody buys the book for even just one of them. if a GM wanted full authority over the world and the characters, they should just write a novel. because the moment players enter a roleplay. any hopes of a script are shattered.

Whether or not a roleplay uses dice doesn't really have anything to do with this conversation as a whole, since we're talking about the ability to sell a concept to another person.


Your statements here neglect to mention two things. The first is that it is possible for a GM to care about the setting and content of their world, and not necessarily what happens in it. You can ask that people make things that fit the setting, and then not care about what they do once things are actually in motion. This is not only possible, it is also important for those that want to have roleplays that are cohesive yet free. The second is that a GM does not necessarily have to compromise on certain things in order to keep players happy. If they present a setting that is captivating to the people that want to play in it, that's more than enough to keep people interested. If people are 100% into the setting, compromise wouldn't even be necessary, because people wouldn't automatically feel "limited" by the rules set in motion for a setting.

I think @Umbrie and  @_Line 213  your straying from original point and the topic of this thread.


its is about using anime images in place of character description not what you feel is a proper division of player and GMs creative control on a roleplay.

I don't think it's that far away, because it can ultimately be spun back to the point of the thread very simply.


Does the GM want characters described in a very specific way? No? Then how you present your character ultimately doesn't really matter.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Whether or not a roleplay uses dice doesn't really have anything to do with this conversation as a whole, since we're talking about the ability to sell a concept to another person.


Your statements here neglect to mention two things. The first is that it is possible for a GM to care about the setting and content of their world, and not necessarily what happens in it. You can ask that people make things that fit the setting, and then not care about what they do once things are actually in motion. This is not only possible, it is also important for those that want to have roleplays that are cohesive yet free. The second is that a GM does not necessarily have to compromise on certain things in order to keep players happy. If they present a setting that is captivating to the people that want to play in it, that's more than enough to keep people interested. If people are 100% into the setting, compromise wouldn't even be necessary, because people wouldn't automatically feel "limited" by the rules set in motion for a setting.


I don't think it's that far away, because it can ultimately be spun back to the point of the thread very simply.


Does the GM want characters described in a very specific way? No? Then how you present your character ultimately doesn't really matter.

Yes but the OP was asking very specifically about the use of images. They weren't asking about character creation or GM preferences. It was just - I see a lot of people using popular anime images, what's up with that?

 

[_Line 213]

Yes but the OP was asking very specifically about the use of images. They weren't asking about character creation or GM preferences. It was just - I see a lot of people using popular anime images, what's up with that?

Discussions evolve and go in different directions. This isn't particularly strange.

 

[Umbrie]

Yes but the OP was asking very specifically about the use of images. They weren't asking about character creation or GM preferences. It was just - I see a lot of people using popular anime images, what's up with that?

the Act of a Player creating a character for your world is already an act of player input as well as an act of player contribution. but, i actually have no problems with people using animated images as faceclaims. i would rather deal with the diverse lot of anime and video game faceclaims than accept the same limited pool of celebrities, models and cosplayers. but  the use of images in general and character creation are connected. many people have similar taste in character aesthetics. for example, i have a fondness for using specific images of Ruri Gokou. Kurumi Tokisaki, Ririchiyo Shirakiin, Yumemi Okazaki or similar cute youthful females that have features which are less exaggerated than most other anime characters. but mostly because i don't like rainbow hair and kaleidoscope eyes.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Discussions evolve and go in different directions. This isn't particularly strange.

Perhaps to you it's not but it also has little to do with the OPs point. And as your above points seems to boil down to - follow the guidelines of the GM I would think this counts too. You won't join a roleplay and pester a GM about fitting a unsuitable character into their narrative, so maybe you don't introduce a separate tangent onto a discussion thread that does not involve the original point. Especially as only you and Umbria are taking part in the conversation. So your both the outliers to this discussion. So perhaps make a separate thread or continue your discussion over PMs

 

[_Line 213]

Perhaps to you it's not but it also has little to do with the OPs point. And as your above points seems to boil down to - follow the guidelines of the GM I would think this counts too. You won't join a roleplay and pester a GM about fitting a unsuitable character into their narrative, so maybe you don't introduce a separate tangent onto a discussion thread that does not involve the original point. Especially as only you and Umbria are taking part in the conversation. So your both the outliers to this discussion. So perhaps make a separate thread or continue your discussion over PMs

I contributed to the initial topic on the first page, and I also steered the point that we were on back into the context of the initial conversation.


So I don't think the continued backseat moderation is really necessary.

 

[Umbrie]

Perhaps to you it's not but it also has little to do with the OPs point. And as your above points seems to boil down to - follow the guidelines of the GM I would think this counts too. You won't join a roleplay and pester a GM about fitting a unsuitable character into their narrative, so maybe you don't introduce a separate tangent onto a discussion thread that does not involve the original point. Especially as only you and Umbria are taking part in the conversation. So your both the outliers to this discussion. So perhaps make a separate thread or continue your discussion over PMs

you mean Umbrie. E, not A. people always seem to fudge that.

 

[rae2nerdy]

you mean Umbrie. E, not A. people always seem to fudge that.

Im on iPad it won't let me spell your name differently.

 

[Umbrie]

Im on iPad it won't let me spell your name differently.

sorrieises. this is why i don't use apple.

 

[Crane]

"Hey, I don't really like face claims. Can we not use them?"


"Cool, I won't use them. Here's my description instead."


60% of the time, it works every time.

 

[Umbrie]

"Hey, I don't really like face claims. Can we not use them?"


"Cool, I won't use them. Here's my description instead."


60% of the time, it works every time.

that works. i would try to read the description, but sometimes, images are a quick shorthand

 

[JRPG]

Well, I honestly think there's nothing from with a person using an image, rather than describing the face. Unless the GM, or character sheet specifies that they need a description, it shouldn't really matter. Although, I prefer descriptions + a picture, or at least a bullet point of key descriptions. Unless the RP contains a few members, it's difficult to memorize everyone's appearances, thus pictures make things a bit easier for everyone.

 

[MattieLee]

I mainly use premade images for more casual roleplays, especially if they are in the fandom category simply because I don't want to spend a large chunk of my own time drawing out a character when I can find an image at least close to how I imagine them. I may combine the picture with a description if they have certain features that stick out but that would be about it because I find it difficult to look at a premade image and imagine several differences from it, a few sure but not many. That and I just plain find it more appealing to have some sort of visual, regardless of what that visual is.


For more in-depth roleplays or characters though I usually do either draw them or at least give a good description, I guess to me the main factor is the type of roleplay your participating in and I consider most roleplays here on rpn I participate in to be casual. If I saw the same level of effort on your typical casual fandom or slice of life roleplay as a detailed or world-building one with the characters I would be concerned. So that at least for me is a main factor, is this a casual roleplay that may only last a few weeks?, or a well-done one that could last moths or longer? I always base my effort brought into character creation on the effort put into the roleplay itself.

 

[Umbrie]

Well, I honestly think there's nothing from with a person using an image, rather than describing the face. Unless the GM, or character sheet specifies that they need a description, it shouldn't really matter. Although, I prefer descriptions + a picture, or at least a bullet point of key descriptions. Unless the RP contains a few members, it's difficult to memorize everyone's appearances, thus pictures make things a bit easier for everyone.

pictures are an amazing shorthand i would have no problem with. but i want to actually see an attempt at describing a character's key features.