What if the GM dies?

[Dugym]

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Basically, what can active players do in a roleplay if the GM dies?


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[call me rae]

Do you mean if they disappear or if they literally pass away in real life?

 

[Myxyzptlk]

If the GM needs to I believe they can place someone else in charge of the roleplay. However if they die suddenly it's possible the roleplayers could decide on who carries the plot forward and it could work in the end though they wouldn't be able to delete posts or request tabs they can attempt to carry it forward.

 

[LegoLad659]

Reboot it, or try and keep going on their own without GM powers. That's really it.

 

[call me rae]

To put my two cents in if the GM is like legitimately dead as in passed away I would say that probably using their ideas without their permission would not be such a hot idea. It would feel kind of disrespectful to me.


Now if you mean if they disappear - again I'd be wary of just straight copying the idea without some indication that the GM would be okay with it.


If possible I'd ask one of the GM's friends if they could contact them and at least ask if you can use the idea. ( This assumes the GM is just gone from the site of course ).


But like if the GM just vanishes out of the blue with no way of contacting them I'd say your probably SOL.


You could try to reboot it while crediting the original creator of the idea but that's about all you could do.

 

[Idea]

To put my two cents in if the GM is like legitimately dead as in passed away I would say that probably using their ideas without their permission would not be such a hot idea. It would feel kind of disrespectful to me.
Now if you mean if they disappear - again I'd be wary of just straight copying the idea without some indication that the GM would be okay with it.


If possible I'd ask one of the GM's friends if they could contact them and at least ask if you can use the idea. ( This assumes the GM is just gone from the site of course ).


But like if the GM just vanishes out of the blue with no way of contacting them I'd say your probably SOL.


You could try to reboot it while crediting the original creator of the idea but that's about all you could do.

If I may disagree , I don't think it is disrespectful to take the idea. I think it is disrespectful to take someone else's ideas only if you're aware you're doing it, and even then, it's more because you're harming the person than anything else. If you, say, stole an idea from a currently active RP and put it up somewhere else, you might be dealing potential players or creating an environment of conflict in other more indirect ways (say, by pulling it off so wrong that it becomes a cliche quickly). In either of these cases, the current owner of the original idea will be harmed.


However, if you take the idea after they vanish or die, it is a sign of admiration and respect, the precise opposite of what you were saying. This is because it shows the appreciation of the players for the RP they were in and their investment in the idea the other person created. While I don't think anyone would give their life for their forum roleplay, most people I know love having their work recognized and some people I heard about might even give their lives for their art. If the person has died, keeping the idea alive even if it meant stealing it would be almost a tribute to the GM. If they had ditched the Roleplay the GM not only would have no room to complain, but would still have appreciation shown for their idea and ...uhm...I had soemthing more to say, I may edit this when I recall what it was.


Anyway, that was my opinion. Of course, one week, two weeks, even perhaps three weeks are probably not enough to justify any of this yet. People's circumstances are wildly different form person to person. Having firm grounds to say that soemthing happened or that the GM ditched the Roleplay would, of course, be essential.

 

[LegoLad659]

but would still have appreciation shown for their idea and ...uhm...I had soemthing more to say, I may edit this when I recall what it was.

"would still have appreciation shown for the idea and would be glad to know that people carried on their idea even when they abandoned it" is the best I can come up with.

 

[call me rae]

To clarify what I meant was in the case where The GM is actually deceased. Like they have died in RL.


And I personally would find it distasteful to take the idea of someone who was no longer around to speak for themselves.


I would find it disrespectful to their memory.


To further clarify I meant in the case of people just continuing an idea without acknowledging that it came from someone else.


As in literally just taking over a roleplay as if it is there own not something they are continuing for someone else.


I would still not be comfortable taking on a dead persons idea myself but as long as you give proper credit to them I don't see as there is anything inanely wrong with it in general.


Now if the person just disappears rather than actually dies - you can of course make a reboot as long as you credit the original creator.

 

[Idea]

I understood what you meant, only I still think it's not disrespectful. I concede that if you go around and actually claim the idea is your own, then yeah, that's disrespectful. But if you don't make any statements as to whom the idea belongs to or if you're just making an adaptation of the idea, then I don't think it is disrespectful but is actually more respectful than just letting the idea die. It would show you care about the idea instead of adding in the stigma of "I took this idea from this other person whose dead now".


But as I said, just an opinion. In the end, it's a matter of what we consider disrespecting the dead. Similar to how some people are of the opinion that using a corpse's organs is disrespectful to try dead, and others think it is acceptable as long as the person agreed to it or even that it is respectful as long as they're put to proper use.

 

[call me rae]

I understood what you meant, only I still think it's not disrespectful. I concede that if you go around and actually claim the idea is your own, then yeah, that's disrespectful. But if you don't make any statements as to whom the idea belongs to or if you're just making an adaptation of the idea, then I don't think it is disrespectful but is actually more respectful than just letting the idea die. It would show you care about the idea instead of adding in the stigma of "I took this idea from this other person whose dead now".
But as I said, just an opinion. In the end, it's a matter of what we consider disrespecting the dead. Similar to how some people are of the opinion that using a corpse's organs is disrespectful to try dead, and others think it is acceptable as long as the person agreed to it or even that it is respectful as long as they're put to proper use.

And we are also talking about different things. If you make a roleplay based on someone's idea or inspired by them than that's fine. If you want to credit them you can but as long as you are not like literally taking over their thread and just acting as if it's your own than you can do whatever you like.


I was specifically referencing what I would do with the specific roleplay as an active member if the GM dies.


Example say I made a Harry Potter roleplay called Magical Exchange - where students are a part of a magical exchange to all the different schools in the Potterverse.


Something unfortunate happens and I die unexpectedly.


Now say a member of that roleplay - we'll call them Sally - takes over after my passing.


No explanation , no reference to my passing, they just take over my roleplay entire as if it where there idea or I had given them permission.


Or alternateLy Sally copies and pastes Magical Exchange exactly as I made it and invites all the old rpers. Again not crediting me, saying it was my idea.


Just ooh here's this new thread I made come join.


This I would consider to all be very disrespectful. Whether I'm actually dead or just off site for whatever RL reason.


Now if Sally makes a similar roleplay she calls Hogwarts Exchange and is inspired by / based on my idea than that's fine.


Or if she copies my idea and says somewhere - a reboot of the late nerdyfangirls roleplay. Or something to that effect.


Than that's perfectly acceptable.


Now does this mean that I personally do any of the above if I were in Sally's shoes? No. But I'm not saying Sally is wrong or disrespectful. Well as long as the proper credit is given.

 

[Idea]

I can see your point, and yes, if you litterally copy pasted someone's work or took over the thread without permission , that would be disrespectful. But I don't think you owe crediting anyone for their idea if they abandon that idea completely or if they pass away, PROVIDED you don't try to take that credit either.

 

[Elle Joyner]

I'm confused by this notion. Like... is this a legitimate question? Or by 'die' do you mean disappear... Because if you're honestly asking if it's okay to take someone's work... after they have -actually- died, I'm a little disturbed by that concept. No... a lot disturbed. If RP is anyone's first thought when someone has passed away, that's calling for a priority shift. If you're asking what to do if they disappear from the site, etiquette dictates that you try to contact them first about taking over the idea. If that doesn't work, you let it go and find a way to recreate it in your OWN words, to the best of your ability.


Ideas come from a place deep within us, and whether or not they're serious, goofy, or a little of both, they're a part of us - taking someone else's idea without their permission, whatever the circumstances, is just kind of disrespectful and I know as a player, I'd have a BIG issue with anyone using someone else's concept for their own unless I knew it was for sure okay'd.

 

[Mishka]

I can see your point, and yes, if you litterally copy pasted someone's work or took over the thread without permission , that would be disrespectful. But I don't think you owe crediting anyone for their idea if they abandon that idea completely or if they pass away, PROVIDED you don't try to take that credit either.

In my opinion, putting no credit on something is just like claiming it as your own. Perhaps it's how my brain works, but when I see no name attached to something then I assume that it belongs to the person who posted it. There's probably a lot of people who think similarly.


I'm not going to comment on the main topic of this thread however because @Elle Joyner has summed up my thoughts on the matter perfectly. Someone dying or disappearing doesn't mean that all the rights to that idea are up for grabs... All my opinion of course! :3

 

[Idea]

@Elle Joyner[/URL] has summed up my thoughts on the matter perfectly. Someone dying or disappearing doesn't mean that all the rights to that idea are up for grabs... All my opinion of course! :3

Indeed ideas are a personal thing. The effort, the dedication we put into them is like putting a part of ourselves. Hence, not wanting it stolen is an understandable position.


However, there is a crucial detail that I think you´re misunderstanding. This doesn´t say "you are wrong", after all, we see what I respectable differently and that is fine. But still, I think it´s relevant to the conversation to bring up the fact that we´re talking about someone who has either deeply disrespected the players and broken their trust (by leaving and still being around) or someone who, by one reason or another (death being a possibility) has lost their ability to bring their idea to fruition.


It is true that any person would not like to have their ideas used by someone else while they´re around but I have to really question: if you are NOT around, if the ONLY way for your idea to not be cast into oblivion is someone taking it... Which is the choice?


While this is of course a question that can´t be answered plain and simple, I think history supports the thought that we´d rather have someone taking that part of us, rather than letting it rot.


Now, addressing the point that was made regarding not crediting anyone. It is true that we usually assume that the idea is of the person who made the thread. However, it is absurd to think that the idea the "original" person posted is their own exclusively. It is humanely impossible to conceive ideas without drawing inspiration from somewhere else, more often than not, heavy inspiration. Furthermore, the odds of coming up with a truly original concept are pretty much null, so it shouldn´t be treated as a general case.


The very idea that you´re "stealing" the idea is flawed to begin with. The same idea can be executed in many different ways, which is usually what makes an idea truly original, however, the idea will still be executed differently even if you´re purposely trying to rip someone off. If you practically copy-paste what that other person did, odds are people will find out easily.


I don´t say you shouldn´t credit them or that you shouldn´t first confirm they´re gone, in fact, quite the opposite. I just say nobody is in the wrong if in their attempt to save a pleasant roleplay idea they end up having to use it or adapt it without crediting the original owner.

 

[Mishka]

I honestly just don't see what's so difficult about saying "this original idea by -insert name- had been adapted by me into this here thread".

 

[Elle Joyner]

I get it. I do - I've been burned by a GM just... poofing out with no warning, leaving an RP in the dust. But my point is... it's an idea that, whether or not it comes to full fruition, belongs to someone else. If you wanna continue with it, the logical and morally sound thing to do is to make it your own - like you said - execute it differently. New name, new plots... The idea being inspiration... not inception. What the OP seems to be suggesting is taking the idea as a whole and just continuing it, and that would be iffy in either scenario.


There's just something that reads... sneaky and underhanded about taking an idea that someone else came up with and claiming it as your own. Credit where credit is due is the idea - whether it's something you COULD come up with on your own, or not. It's about respecting the person enough to say "This was a product of your hard word... I'm gonna take good care of it." instead of just ripping it off as your own gem, when you did none of the mining.

 

[Idea]

I honestly just don't see what's so difficult about saying "this original idea by -insert name- had been adapted by me into this here thread".

it´s not a matter of difficulty it´s a matter of perception- not everyone takes it well when a person states that the idea belongs to someone else and there are even instances where those people will flock to the original instead. You could fix the latter by stating the person had actually died (if that was the likely case), but then you´d have the problem of people getting uncomfortable about it.


This wouldn´t apply for everyone, but when you´re trying to save the idea, you may not have the option to take such risks.


And if you bring up the people on that previous roleplay, then think about it: those people would not need you to credit it, they would already know where the idea came from.

 

[Elle Joyner]

Haha - but isn't that a matter of respect, too? It's kind of dishonest NOT to let people know it's not your original idea... and people have a tendency to be MORE uncomfortable with the idea of what feels like -theft- than the idea of repurposing something (with permission or credit given). If I was in an RP with someone and discovered that it was an RP someone else originally started and credit wasn't given? I'd drop it... immediately. And if I was in the original roleplay already, I'd still wanna see credit given... if for no other reason than decency.

 

[Idea]

[QUOTE="Elle Joyner]I get it. I do - I've been burned by a GM just... poofing out with no warning, leaving an RP in the dust. But my point is... it's an idea that, whether or not it comes to full fruition, belongs to someone else. If you wanna continue with it, the logical and morally sound thing to do is to make it your own - like you said - execute it differently. New name, new plots... The idea being inspiration... not inception. What the OP seems to be suggesting is taking the idea as a whole and just continuing it, and that would be iffy in either scenario.
There's just something that reads... sneaky and underhanded about taking an idea that someone else came up with and claiming it as your own. Credit where credit is due is the idea - whether it's something you COULD come up with on your own, or not. It's about respecting the person enough to say "This was a product of your hard word... I'm gonna take good care of it." instead of just ripping it off as your own gem, when you did none of the mining.

[/QUOTE]
hence me saying "as long as you don´t claim it as your own". If people look at your thread are they joining because it is you who made the thread or because of the idea on it? People interpreting no credit as it being your own idea and people getting uncomfortable with you crediting others for it doesn´t make you a thief- it makes you someone who either forgot to write down the credits or a victim of circumstance. A person who is neither would have no problem actually claiming the idea as their own, in fact, one might even say such a person would be prone to doing so: any thief would try to run away as fast as possible or disguise the fact that they were there.

 

[Idea]

[QUOTE="Elle Joyner]Haha - but isn't that a matter of respect, too? It's kind of dishonest NOT to let people know it's not your original idea... and people have a tendency to be MORE uncomfortable with the idea of what feels like -theft- than the idea of repurposing something (with permission or credit given). If I was in an RP with someone and discovered that it was an RP someone else originally started and credit wasn't given? I'd drop it... immediately. And if I was in the original roleplay already, I'd still wanna see credit given... if for no other reason than decency.

[/QUOTE]
and this is the point where I said we inherently disagree: you believe there is an inherent disrespect in taking that idea, nomatter the circumstances, whereas I say it is actually a show of respect and appreciation to do whatever you can to keep the idea alive.

 

[Elle Joyner]

hence me saying "as long as you don´t claim it as your own". If people look at your thread are they joining because it is you who made the thread or because of the idea on it? People interpreting no credit as it being your own idea and people getting uncomfortable with you crediting others for it doesn´t make you a thief- it makes you someone who either forgot to write down the credits or a victim of circumstance. A person who is neither would have no problem actually claiming the idea as their own, in fact, one might even say such a person would be prone to doing so: any thief would try to run away as fast as possible or disguise the fact that they were there.

Hmm... that feels an awful lot like semantics. That's sort of like... robbing a bank, and then blaming it on their lack of security. But you're right - we're not gonna agree on this. I feel like there's enough ideas you can pull inspiration from without having to take someone else's concept. Particularly if it's an ordeal to give credit where it's due. All I can say is... shoe-on-foot, I personally would be appalled to be in someone's roleplay, only to find the idea was originally someone else's and they didn't say as much. Opinions, and all that jazz.

 

[Idea]

[QUOTE="Elle Joyner]All I can say is... shoe-on-foot, I personally would be appalled to be in someone's roleplay, only to find the idea was originally someone else's and they didn't say as much

[/QUOTE]
in that case you can quit roleplaying right now- odds say that 99.(9)% of the ideas in any roleplay have previously been taken by someone, even if neither of the two (the one that took the idea and the one whose idea was taken) are aware of it.

 

[Elle Joyner]

in that case you can quit roleplaying right now- odds say that 99.(9)% of the ideas in any roleplay have previously been taken by someone, even if neither of the two (the one that took the idea and the one whose idea was taken) are aware of it.

Obviously there's a difference between taking inspiration from someone or something, whether intentionally or not... and taking an entire concept - name/plot/etall. Distinguishing the difference is importat.

 

[Idea]

[QUOTE="Elle Joyner]Obviously there's a difference between taking inspiration from someone or something, whether intentionally or not... and taking an entire concept - name/plot/etall. Distinguishing the difference is importat.

[/QUOTE]
so is knowing that is a gradient, not a clear cut.

 

[InsanEleven]

Well, if the GM dies in my RP I'd be dead ._.


Also, this might sound very arrogant, but I don't think it is possible in a very good roleplay to simply 'take over the idea'. It's not like ideas are something you can simply copy straight over from one person to the other, and the original GM who thought of it will probably have a lot of mental context, and follow up ideas he was pointing the RP towards. On top of that I think there is also the problem of the GM usually being the people the group centres around, like a social/creative little light people are drawn to. If that goes out I think you might have to worry more about keeping the group together in the first place, you need to find someone who carries a light to begin with, before you can even hope to mimic the original light.


If I take my own experience in calculation I don't think I've ever been in an RP where I could say that if the GM died, someone could take over, simply because they don't think alike. It's very hard to properly continue something and still retain the original spirit.