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Dice The Redux of the Tale of a Falling Empire - OOC

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Ooh oh! What if SHE did something humiliating to him!? All assassin-y or spy-y? Like, there was a failed assassination or a muck up of an operation that got traced back to her? It had political or financial blow-back or something. And then he tried to reel her in somehow and that pissed her off?
 
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Ooh oh! What if SHE did something humiliating to him!? All assassin-y or spy-y? Like, there was a failed assassination or a much up of an operation that got traced back to her? It had political or financial blow-back or something. And then he tried to reel her in somehow and that pissed her off?
Ooh, I like that angle. And him, being a dutiful husband, had to either clean up the mess so it didn't fall on his more important wife, or took the fall for it so she didn't have to. Maybe it was her idea to do which left him humiliated and in deep. Which is funny as it means he is having a really bad time now having to babysit Kitava and her nonsense as well.


However, with Ramuron being the lesser spouse, he might not have as much leg to stand on in giving waifu her comeuppance, and she likely wouldn't care as much, if at all, if he was angry with her.


That said! I think it would also be pretty funny if because of this he also has to tear his hair out protecting his wife and Kitava from assassins while he is tied to Kitava.
 
Ooh, I like that angle. And him, being a dutiful husband, had to either clean up the mess so it didn't fall on his more important wife, or took the fall for it so she didn't have to. Maybe it was her idea to do which left him humiliated and in deep. Which is funny as it means he is having a really bad time now having to babysit Kitava and her nonsense as well.


However, with Ramuron being the lesser spouse, he might not have as much leg to stand on in giving waifu her comeuppance, and she likely wouldn't care as much, if at all, if he was angry with her.


That said! I think it would also be pretty funny if because of this he also has to tear his hair out protecting his wife and Kitava from assassins while he is tied to Kitava.
Yeah, I like where all that is going. I think for sure an operation went sideways in some way and was traced back to her. Maybe there was an Exalt involved where she wasn't expecting one?
 
Yeah, I like where all that is going. I think for sure an operation went sideways in some way and was traced back to her. Maybe there was an Exalt involved where she wasn't expecting one?

Sounds like a major complication if there ever was one. How would we make it humiliating for Ram?
 
Hmm... That is a tough one. Maybe he handed the mission off to Taeran in a bout of nepotism? Figuring for her it wouldn't be an issue or something?
 
Hmm... That is a tough one. Maybe he handed the mission off to Taeran in a bout of nepotism? Figuring for her it wouldn't be an issue or something?

I dont think Ramuron is the type to send off assasins or spys. Nor would he be the type that someone hands those missions too. Being a soldier more than a political operator.




Ha! Maybe whatever happened is one of the reasons he is stuck guarding Kitava?
 
I assume "[pass]" is site etiquette meaning "I have nothing further to add in this scene"?

Edit: nm, I see that was answered - browser just hadn't picked up all the earlier posts!
 
Hey all. Quick heads-up: today is my sister's birthday, so I'm going to be preoccupied with the festivities for a bit. Between that and the fact that I have to move things to a new location - and because I want to account for all the stuff each of you've written - it might be a while before I can get my next post up.
 
Hey jaydude, when you say encampment I think of tents or light sheds. Are the structures at the garrison more fortified or is it literally just a camp surrounded by a wall?
 
More fortified. My use of the word "encampment" was meant to invoke the version used in Civilization VI, which are basically districts devoted to the military where you can build things like barracks, stables and so forth.
 
Rykon Rykon
The horse's colour scheme is somewhat of a meta thing, in that it's the same as that of the horse used by the Brave Lion version of Roy in FE Heroes, the portrait for which I vaguely recalled you using for your character prior to the game's start. You certainly don't have to keep the horse if you don't want to, though.

Also, I didn't mean to infer that the troops Manato's seeing on the training ground are all the ones you have, though they can be if that's how you want it. Looking at the manuscript, a 4-dot Command Rating gives you the choice of either one Size 4 or Size 5 Battle Group with Elite Drill, two Size 5 BG's with Average Drill, or a Size 3 BG of Elite Troops with Elite Drill. I don't remember if you ever specified which of those choices you wanted to take.
 
Rykon Rykon
The horse's colour scheme is somewhat of a meta thing, in that it's the same as that of the horse used by the Brave Lion version of Roy in FE Heroes, the portrait for which I vaguely recalled you using for your character prior to the game's start. You certainly don't have to keep the horse if you don't want to, though.
Ah, now that you mention it, you're right. I haven't done much with FE Heroes, but I actually do have that version of Roy. As much as I love the Fire Emblem series, I haven't been able to play through as many titles as I'd like either. Anyhow, I'm not going for a spot-on duplicate, but he's very close to the image in my head of the character.

I'm fine with keeping Northern Wind, though part of me is conflicted on whether or not to bring back Rhogar the claw strider. I'm still thinking on this one. When I do decide I'd like to leverage the Dragon-Blooded advantage merit to have a familiar steed, even if his influence shifts to occupy the advantage slot.

In the meantime, I'd like to use the opportunity for Manato to build connections with the Kandaran people themselves. As the enforcement and security arm of the Realm's presence, it would be to our benefit for him to be approachable when troubles inevitably get stirred up from time to time.

Also, I didn't mean to infer that the troops Manato's seeing on the training ground are all the ones you have, though they can be if that's how you want it. Looking at the manuscript, a 4-dot Command Rating gives you the choice of either one Size 4 or Size 5 Battle Group with Elite Drill, two Size 5 BG's with Average Drill, or a Size 3 BG of Elite Troops with Elite Drill. I don't remember if you ever specified which of those choices you wanted to take.
Ah, I took a training charm so I could start with a larger quantity and raise their quality with the charm. Eventually, he'll lobby to train reserve/volunteer militias so that while we won't have to fund and feed a large standing force over the long term, we can raise a quality force relatively quickly when we have to.
 
I'm fine with keeping Northern Wind, though part of me is conflicted on whether or not to bring back Rhogar the claw strider. I'm still thinking on this one. When I do decide I'd like to leverage the Dragon-Blooded advantage merit to have a familiar steed, even if his influence shifts to occupy the advantage slot.
Feel free.

In the meantime, I'd like to use the opportunity for Manato to build connections with the Kandaran people themselves. As the enforcement and security arm of the Realm's presence, it would be to our benefit for him to be approachable when troubles inevitably get stirred up from time to time.
Go ahead.

Ah, I took a training charm so I could start with a larger quantity and raise their quality with the charm. Eventually, he'll lobby to train reserve/volunteer militias so that while we won't have to fund and feed a large standing force over the long term, we can raise a quality force relatively quickly when we have to.
Okay, though I was already thinking of giving you the means to quickly replenish your troops in order to represent Sanctity of Merits. A part of that, besides a pre-existing infrastructure for training up replacement troops, would be soldiers kept on active reserve - or citizens with a bit of military training under their belts - who could be bought in to replace soldiers killed or wounded in their duties.
 
Okay, though I was already thinking of giving you the means to quickly replenish your troops in order to represent Sanctity of Merits. A part of that, besides a pre-existing infrastructure for training up replacement troops, would be soldiers kept on active reserve - or citizens with a bit of military training under their belts - who could be bought in to replace soldiers killed or wounded in their duties.
Sounds like a good fit then. Narratively it will make the area daunting to attack and inspire some degree of patriotism. Mechanically it provides justification for the sanctity of merits. I like when a plan comes together.
 
Just wanted to drop a quick update. I've done the parts for the satrap's office and the encampment, and now I'm just working on the part for Taeran.
 
Apologies for the delay, everyone.
No worries. Enjoying the pace, actually.

[OOC: I understand that Taeran's dressed down, but is she visibly carrying her Black Jade Powerbow on her?]
Oh crap. I hadn't even thought about that. Practically, I think that's probably dumb to walk around with. Maybe, it's better to use only on sneaking missions or when she doesn't care. Is there a Charm that let's you banish your weapon to Elsewhere in Essence? I don't remember seeing it... That might be my next Charm purchase.

Anyway, I think for her little outing, she's keeping hidden knives on her—both for throwing and close-combat. If you're good with that, that is.
 
No worries. Enjoying the pace, actually.
^_^

Oh crap. I hadn't even thought about that. Practically, I think that's probably dumb to walk around with. Maybe, it's better to use only on sneaking missions or when she doesn't care. Is there a Charm that let's you banish your weapon to Elsewhere in Essence? I don't remember seeing it... That might be my next Charm purchase.
I'd say it depends. Given how valuable Artifact weapons are in-universe, logically they would draw attention to anyone carrying them, which won't entirely work for hiding in plain sight. On the other hand, having one on your person would logically mark you as an Essence-user, seeing as they're the only ones who can use such things, which might make people think twice about picking a fight with you.

And yes, Essence does have a Charm for sending weapons to Elsewhere and then recalling them. It's called Arsenal-Summoning Gesture.

Anyway, I think for her little outing, she's keeping hidden knives on her—both for throwing and close-combat. If you're good with that, that is.
Sure. 3E certainly allowed you to start with stuff that was above your Resources rating in value, provided there was a logical reason behind it. I don't think it unusual that an assassin would keep a few knives on her person.
 
Hey all. Just to let you know, I will be away from my PC for a good couple of days as of tomorrow, as I'm going camping and kayaking with my dad and some of his friends during that time. If I do have my phone, I don't know if I'll have any kind of wi-fi where I'm going, so odds are that I won't be able to post for some time.
 
Random Word Random Word
As much as I love the effort and thought you put into your latest post, I'm going to have to be honest here; I didn't realize your IC comments in the previous post were you suggesting an idea and assuming I would comment on it (I did suggest you do so OOC beforehand), and thus I never meant to imply that House Hasuri practices nepotism for profit (at least during Boroma and Netara's time). I really thought it was just Kitava being Kitava and jumping to conclusions; as things stand right now in my mind, this part here...

She pauses momentarily to collect her thoughts, the winds swirling around her slowing only to redouble their intensity as she launches into her presentation, "The sale of key positions is a lucrative source of income for House Hasuri and useful for cultivating the support of those of wealth and breeding, especially where the titles are heritable, but it limits administrative efficiency, accumulates bureaucratic dead weight, and stifles innovation. By instituting an tried and true system of enlightened civic examinations for the selection and appointment of officials from all branches of the administration, we can inculcate a culture of meritocratic excellence, but I propose we go further."

...will at best make Kitava look like she's uninformed and/or lying, because she's making false claims about how Boroma and Netara appoint their officials despite allegedly doing her research, and at worst will be taken as a massive insult by Boroma and Netara, because she's implying that they're either corrupt, or they don't have the sense to institute meritocratic systems by themselves.

I'm happy to discuss this further, but I'm heading off for the weekend in roughly less than an hour, so we might have to figure things out next week.


Retracted viewpoint.
 
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I never meant to imply that House Hasuri practices nepotism for profit (at least during Boroma and Netara's time)
I definitely didn't think you'd implied anything about the structure of Kandara's bureaucracy or economy! Apologies for the misunderstanding. That was in large part why I made something plausible up to fill in the gaps. Until the British imported the idea of civil service exams from China to Europe in the mid1800s, China was the only place on earth that I know of with a civil service examination (Edit: I forgot about Korea). Up until that point, you basically had a choice between inherited roles, nepotism, or purchased roles (In Exalted we also likely have mystical selection systems like 'nepotism by the gods', 'ordained by fate' as in the case of Varangia, 'chosen by the ancient artifact', or 'succeeded at the harrowing trial'). Purchased roles was a massive step up in liberalization as it allowed a path for wealthy (probably therefore successful, and possibly even intelligent) merchants and professionals (judges, lawyers, etc) to buy their way into minor nobility and government or military positions while boosting the crown coffers, which is significantly more meritocratic than blood succession, and so I was actually giving Kandara quite a bit of credit for modernisation rather than implying Boroma and Netara were corrupt and incompetent. Being a small Satrapy that has spent most of its long history at war (a state that does not in any way lend itself to moving away from highly effective feudal models of collective defense), the odds of it having liberalized and centralized that far are low and show an unusual amount of effort spent on administrative reform. If Kandara were purely feudal, Kitava likely would instead be advocating for opening up administrative and military commissions for purchase (military commissions are purchased in the Realm, as are Satrapial appointments, so if Boroma and Netara are offended by the idea of purchasing positions then they're basically giving Kitava and the Realm the middle finger! She paid the Empress good Jade for this job, and a lot of it. The fact the Empress told her to buy the position notwithstanding.), and establishing or extending a bureaucratic civil service.

I'm drawing my inspiration for Kitava's reforms largely from the French Revolution (minus most of that crazy Declaration of the Rights of Man stuff, because that clearly violates the Perfected Hierarchy), so I'm giving Kandara, despite being effectively a high bronze age society, credit for being as advanced as the Ancien Régime in the mid 1700s! The Realm is actually highly unusual for having standardized civil service examinations, and it still makes extensive use of purchased positions both overt and covert within the Thousand Scales and the Legions (It's important to keep the rabble out while paying lip service to meritocracy). Not only is it very difficult to institute such a system, it's also massively destabilizing because of the way it takes powers and privileges away from the sword carrying warrior nobility and gives them out to any old peasant who can write and do figures. The warrior nobility are not the people you want to piss off when you're fighting tooth and nail to defend your land against Anathema warlords. I would argue it's rare to see such a system in Creation, unless it's managed to survive in some form from the Shogunate or First Age, and holding on to that isn't easy when under constant attack!

Imagine some upjumped peasant levy being placed in command of a noble scion just because their mother was a rich merchant and bought a higher commission! Quelle horreur! Wars have been fought for less. I expected Boroma and Netara to be horrified by the collosal risk Kitava was taking in even proposing an idea like a civil service examination open to all takers, not look at her like an idiot because they'd done it centuries ago in the middle of a brutal centuries long war.

I'm happy to discuss this further
Good! This is a good opportunity to discuss the rules. Not, like, the Essence rules, the real rules. Let me walk you through my thought process so you can see where I went wrong. There are an infinite number of ways to run a roleplaying game, but one important axis is the source of truth. On one side is the players, and on the other the storyteller. In games without a storyteller or without players, obviously it leans all the way to the other side. On the players side of the axis, the players can declare true things about anything in the world. On the storyteller side of the axis, the players can only declare true things about their characters specifically (So, for example, I wouldn't have been able to write the post about Kitava's procession, because that involved a lot of NPCs and world details. I would have had to ask you what her procession looked like, and maybe roll to make it better, but you would ultimately tell me what the result was). Old school D&D leans all the way to the storyteller side, to the point that Lore skills only entitle you to ask a question and roll to maybe receive an answer, and there's no guarantee it's useful. Games like Nobilis, Chuubo's, Legend of the Wulin, Apocalypse World, Fate, etc tend to be somewhere between the players and the middle as the source of truth. Exalted 2e leaned towards the ST but much less than D&D because of ideas like stunting, 3e added things like the declare fact mechanic to lean a bit more towards the players. The rules don't tell the whole story, though, and there's plenty of wiggle room for every game. We should establish where you want this game to lie.

Kitava's a reformer at heart. Her story is one of arriving at a location, bringing an idealistic whirlwind of chaotic upheaval and change, navigating all the problems that causes, and if everything goes according to plan (It never does) when the dust settles things are better for society collectively, but certainly not better for every specific individual. There are winners and losers, and she makes enemies and allies, but on the whole tries to leave a place better by her metrics than she found it. That means she needs things to reform. So I went fishing for problems to fix. When Boroma and Netara said they had no problems, and you mentioned I was welcome to come up with some, to me you were saying, "This game is going to lean further towards collaborative storytelling, and I'd like you to do the work of coming up with some plausible agendas for administrative reform." So I did that. There are, broadly, four options here:

1) I ask you what Kitava should reform in order to embody the visionary administrative genius she is, you optionally ask me to roll something, you tell me the answer, and I work that into a post. This is slow, but it gives you total control.

2) You give me a detailed breakdown of Kandara's administrative and economic structure, and I analyze it in search of promising avenues for reform. This is a huge amount of work for you, and a large amount of work for me, but we'll always be on the same page and the world will be very internally consistent.

3) I make some things up that do not contradict any established facts, and for which I already have plausible sounding reforms in mind, and they are true because Kitava and her entire staff have Embassy 5 and so unless she's been cleverly deceived she's never going to be completely wrong about a bureaucratic analysis. This is often called, "Yes, and..." because the idea is that when either the storyteller or player declare something, unless it directly contradicts a previously established setting detail (and even then, sometimes, if it's good enough to work to reconcile the two), the other party says, "Yes, and..." making it true and adding on to it to continue the story.

4) We do none of the above, because there is nothing about Kandara that Kitava can improve. She takes one look at its administration and finds it to be, in her estimation, perfect. She takes notes, sits down, and entertains herself with her personal business interests for the rest of the story until something happens to her. This is quite possible if one of the central themes of the campaign is, "Kandara would be better off without the Realm, and we're going to see how the corruption and greed of the Realm slowly strangles the life out of its perfection." In which case, we'll need to work together to redesign Kitava, because her character concept makes no sense for this story. Instead we could make her corrupt and venal, or so singularly focused on Sorcerous and occult power she sees Kandara only as a source of resources to further her research. She'll be a villain, or at best an antihero if her research turns out to save the day when things go to hell, but she could have a redemption arc.

I gave 1 a try, but I (incorrectly, I think) interpreted your response as, "The story I have in mind doesn't demand any specific reforms, and 2 sounds like too much work, so please give me 3." If you'd like me to do 1 instead, just let me know what reforms you'd like Kitava to work on, and she'll enthusiastically go to town.
 
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I definitely didn't think you'd implied anything about the structure of Kandara's bureaucracy or economy! Apologies for the misunderstanding. That was in large part why I made something plausible up to fill in the gaps. Until the British imported the idea of civil service exams from China to Europe in the mid1800s, China was the only place on earth that I know of with a civil service examination. Up until that point, you basically had a choice between inherited roles, nepotism, or purchased roles (In Exalted we also likely have mystical selection systems like 'nepotism by the gods', 'ordained by fate' as in the case of Varangia, 'chosen by the ancient artifact', or 'succeeded at the harrowing trial'). Purchased roles was a massive step up in liberalization as it allowed a path for wealthy (probably therefore successful, and possibly even intelligent) merchants and professionals (judges, lawyers, etc) to buy their way into minor nobility and government or military positions while boosting the crown coffers, which is significantly more meritocratic than blood succession, and so I was actually giving Kandara quite a bit of credit for modernisation rather than implying Boroma and Netara were corrupt and incompetent. Being a small Satrapy that has spent most of its long history at war (a state that does not in any way lend itself to moving away from highly effective feudal models of collective defense), the odds of it having liberalized and centralized that far are low and show an unusual amount of effort spent on administrative reform. If Kandara were purely feudal, Kitava likely would instead be advocating for opening up administrative and military commissions for purchase (military commissions are purchased in the Realm, as are Satrapial appointments, so if Boroma and Netara are offended by the idea of purchasing positions then they're basically giving Kitava and the Realm the middle finger! She paid the Empress good Jade for this job, and a lot of it. The fact the Empress told her to buy the position notwithstanding.), and establishing or extending a bureaucratic civil service.

I'm drawing my inspiration for Kitava's reforms largely from the French Revolution (minus most of that crazy Declaration of the Rights of Man stuff, because that clearly violates the Perfected Hierarchy), so I'm giving Kandara, despite being effectively a high bronze age society, credit for being as advanced as the Ancien Régime in the mid 1700s! The Realm is actually highly unusual for having standardized civil service examinations, and it still makes extensive use of purchased positions both overt and covert within the Thousand Scales and the Legions (It's important to keep the rabble out while paying lip service to meritocracy). Not only is it very difficult to institute such a system, it's also massively destabilizing because of the way it takes powers and privileges away from the sword carrying warrior nobility and gives them out to any old peasant who can write and do figures. The warrior nobility are not the people you want to piss off when you're fighting tooth and nail to defend your land against Anathema warlords. I would argue it's rare to see such a system in Creation, unless it's managed to survive in some form from the Shogunate or First Age, and holding on to that isn't easy when under constant attack!

Imagine some upjumped peasant levy being placed in command of a noble scion just because their mother was a rich merchant and bought a higher commission! Quelle horreur! Wars have been fought for less. I expected Boroma and Netara to be horrified by the collosal risk Kitava was taking in even proposing an idea like a civil service examination open to all takers, not look at her like an idiot because they'd done it centuries ago in the middle of a brutal centuries long war.


Good! This is a good opportunity to discuss the rules. Not, like, the Essence rules, the real rules. Let me walk you through my thought process so you can see where I went wrong. There are an infinite number of ways to run a roleplaying game, but one important axis is the source of truth. On one side is the players, and on the other the storyteller. In games without a storyteller or without players, obviously it leans all the way to the other side. On the players side of the axis, the players can declare true things about anything in the world. On the storyteller side of the axis, the players can only declare true things about their characters specifically (So, for example, I wouldn't have been able to write the post about Kitava's procession, because that involved a lot of NPCs and world details. I would have had to ask you what her procession looked like, and maybe roll to make it better, but you would ultimately tell me what the result was). Old school D&D leans all the way to the storyteller side, to the point that Lore skills only entitle you to ask a question and roll to maybe receive an answer, and there's no guarantee it's useful. Games like Nobilis, Chuubo's, Legend of the Wulin, Apocalypse World, Fate, etc tend to be somewhere between the players and the middle as the source of truth. Exalted 2e leaned towards the ST but much less than D&D because of ideas like stunting, 3e added things like the declare fact mechanic to lean a bit more towards the players. The rules don't tell the whole story, though, and there's plenty of wiggle room for every game. We should establish where you want this game to lie.

Kitava's a reformer at heart. Her story is one of arriving at a location, bringing an idealistic whirlwind of chaotic upheaval and change, navigating all the problems that causes, and if everything goes according to plan (It never does) when the dust settles things are better for society collectively, but certainly not better for every specific individual. There are winners and losers, and she makes enemies and allies, but on the whole tries to leave a place better by her metrics than she found it. That means she needs things to reform. So I went fishing for problems to fix. When Boroma and Netara said they had no problems, and you mentioned I was welcome to come up with some, to me you were saying, "This game is going to lean further towards collaborative storytelling, and I'd like you to do the work of coming up with some plausible agendas for administrative reform." So I did that. There are, broadly, four options here:

1) I ask you what Kitava should reform in order to embody the visionary administrative genius she is, you optionally ask me to roll something, you tell me the answer, and I work that into a post. This is slow, but it gives you total control.

2) You give me a detailed breakdown of Kandara's administrative and economic structure, and I analyze it in search of promising avenues for reform. This is a huge amount of work for you, and a large amount of work for me, but we'll always be on the same page and the world will be very internally consistent.

3) I make some things up that do not contradict any established facts, and for which I already have plausible sounding reforms in mind, and they are true because Kitava and her entire staff have Embassy 5 and so unless she's been cleverly deceived she's never going to be completely wrong about a bureaucratic analysis. This is often called, "Yes, and..." because the idea is that when either the storyteller or player declare something, unless it directly contradicts a previously established setting detail (and even then, sometimes, if it's good enough to work to reconcile the two), the other party says, "Yes, and..." making it true and adding on to it to continue the story.

4) We do none of the above, because there is nothing about Kandara that Kitava can improve. She takes one look at its administration and finds it to be, in her estimation, perfect. She takes notes, sits down, and entertains herself with her personal business interests for the rest of the story until something happens to her. This is quite possible if one of the central themes of the campaign is, "Kandara would be better off without the Realm, and we're going to see how the corruption and greed of the Realm slowly strangles the life out of its perfection." In which case, we'll need to work together to redesign Kitava, because her character concept makes no sense for this story. Instead we could make her corrupt and venal, or so singularly focused on Sorcerous and occult power she sees Kandara only as a source of resources to further her research. She'll be a villain, or at best an antihero if her research turns out to save the day when things go to hell, but she could have a redemption arc.

I gave 1 a try, but I (incorrectly, I think) interpreted your response as, "The story I have in mind doesn't demand any specific reforms, and 2 sounds like too much work, so please give me 3." If you'd like me to do 1 instead, just let me know what reforms you'd like Kitava to work on, and she'll enthusiastically go to town.
It's night, I have to be up early for kayaking tomorrow, and you've given me quite a lot to think about (in the very best of ways, let me assure you). Odds are that I'll end up more than willing to go along with your original idea of instituting a meritocratic system in a place that doesn't have it, but I'll have to get back to you in a couple of days.
 

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