Dice The Redux of the Tale of a Falling Empire - OOC

[Random Word]

Let's see, probably start new businesses in Kandara and work to re-establish her holdings on the Blessed Isle and across the Threshold, hold the most fashionable salons and galas in Kandara (A low bar for her - it would be a humiliation if she didn't), if she gets along well with the Cathak scion try to cultivate a powerful connection there (that's a big deal), continue her research into demonology and sorcery, fund extensive scavenger lord expeditions to search for more artifacts from and information about the Realm Before, keep up with Ragara internal intrigue, and work tirelessly to position her little sister well for future success.

 

[Random Word]

if it has generated a loom snarl

Is the Loom a thing we know about, let alone that it can snarl? I didn't think Dynasts knew very much about the inner workings of Yu Shan/Fate. Astrologers and soothsayers of all sorts were just that - people who read the stars or had some power to determine the plans of fate. The 'why and how it works' part was a mystery.

 

[Rykon]

I'm not 100%, other than my assumption that since astronomy/astrology was a thing mortals could do, and that it is often done to trace the Celestial Exalted.

 

[jaydude]

Okay. Finally feeling ready to attend to this.

I definitely didn't think you'd implied anything about the structure of Kandara's bureaucracy or economy! Apologies for the misunderstanding. That was in large part why I made something plausible up to fill in the gaps. Until the British imported the idea of civil service exams from China to Europe in the mid1800s, China was the only place on earth that I know of with a civil service examination (Edit: I forgot about Korea). Up until that point, you basically had a choice between inherited roles, nepotism, or purchased roles (In Exalted we also likely have mystical selection systems like 'nepotism by the gods', 'ordained by fate' as in the case of Varangia, 'chosen by the ancient artifact', or 'succeeded at the harrowing trial'). Purchased roles was a massive step up in liberalization as it allowed a path for wealthy (probably therefore successful, and possibly even intelligent) merchants and professionals (judges, lawyers, etc) to buy their way into minor nobility and government or military positions while boosting the crown coffers, which is significantly more meritocratic than blood succession, and so I was actually giving Kandara quite a bit of credit for modernisation rather than implying Boroma and Netara were corrupt and incompetent. Being a small Satrapy that has spent most of its long history at war (a state that does not in any way lend itself to moving away from highly effective feudal models of collective defense), the odds of it having liberalized and centralized that far are low and show an unusual amount of effort spent on administrative reform. If Kandara were purely feudal, Kitava likely would instead be advocating for opening up administrative and military commissions for purchase (military commissions are purchased in the Realm, as are Satrapial appointments, so if Boroma and Netara are offended by the idea of purchasing positions then they're basically giving Kitava and the Realm the middle finger! She paid the Empress good Jade for this job, and a lot of it. The fact the Empress told her to buy the position notwithstanding.), and establishing or extending a bureaucratic civil service.

I'm drawing my inspiration for Kitava's reforms largely from the French Revolution (minus most of that crazy Declaration of the Rights of Man stuff, because that clearly violates the Perfected Hierarchy), so I'm giving Kandara, despite being effectively a high bronze age society, credit for being as advanced as the Ancien Régime in the mid 1700s! The Realm is actually highly unusual for having standardized civil service examinations, and it still makes extensive use of purchased positions both overt and covert within the Thousand Scales and the Legions (It's important to keep the rabble out while paying lip service to meritocracy). Not only is it very difficult to institute such a system, it's also massively destabilizing because of the way it takes powers and privileges away from the sword carrying warrior nobility and gives them out to any old peasant who can write and do figures. The warrior nobility are not the people you want to piss off when you're fighting tooth and nail to defend your land against Anathema warlords. I would argue it's rare to see such a system in Creation, unless it's managed to survive in some form from the Shogunate or First Age, and holding on to that isn't easy when under constant attack!

Imagine some upjumped peasant levy being placed in command of a noble scion just because their mother was a rich merchant and bought a higher commission! Quelle horreur! Wars have been fought for less. I expected Boroma and Netara to be horrified by the collosal risk Kitava was taking in even proposing an idea like a civil service examination open to all takers, not look at her like an idiot because they'd done it centuries ago in the middle of a brutal centuries long war.

Truth is, the main reason I objected was that back then, I could not in any way imagine the practice of awarding government positions for large sums of cash to be a good thing. I felt the implication there was that the people in charge would appoint underqualified people simply because they had large sums of cash on hand. And yeah, this could still happen if the appointee in question isn't vetted well enough, but you've opened my eyes in regard to the whole idea, and now I have no further issue with it.

Good! This is a good opportunity to discuss the rules. Not, like, the Essence rules, the real rules. Let me walk you through my thought process so you can see where I went wrong. There are an infinite number of ways to run a roleplaying game, but one important axis is the source of truth. On one side is the players, and on the other the storyteller. In games without a storyteller or without players, obviously it leans all the way to the other side. On the players side of the axis, the players can declare true things about anything in the world. On the storyteller side of the axis, the players can only declare true things about their characters specifically (So, for example, I wouldn't have been able to write the post about Kitava's procession, because that involved a lot of NPCs and world details. I would have had to ask you what her procession looked like, and maybe roll to make it better, but you would ultimately tell me what the result was). Old school D&D leans all the way to the storyteller side, to the point that Lore skills only entitle you to ask a question and roll to maybe receive an answer, and there's no guarantee it's useful. Games like Nobilis, Chuubo's, Legend of the Wulin, Apocalypse World, Fate, etc tend to be somewhere between the players and the middle as the source of truth. Exalted 2e leaned towards the ST but much less than D&D because of ideas like stunting, 3e added things like the declare fact mechanic to lean a bit more towards the players. The rules don't tell the whole story, though, and there's plenty of wiggle room for every game. We should establish where you want this game to lie.

Kitava's a reformer at heart. Her story is one of arriving at a location, bringing an idealistic whirlwind of chaotic upheaval and change, navigating all the problems that causes, and if everything goes according to plan (It never does) when the dust settles things are better for society collectively, but certainly not better for every specific individual. There are winners and losers, and she makes enemies and allies, but on the whole tries to leave a place better by her metrics than she found it. That means she needs things to reform. So I went fishing for problems to fix. When Boroma and Netara said they had no problems, and you mentioned I was welcome to come up with some, to me you were saying, "This game is going to lean further towards collaborative storytelling, and I'd like you to do the work of coming up with some plausible agendas for administrative reform." So I did that. There are, broadly, four options here:

1) I ask you what Kitava should reform in order to embody the visionary administrative genius she is, you optionally ask me to roll something, you tell me the answer, and I work that into a post. This is slow, but it gives you total control.

2) You give me a detailed breakdown of Kandara's administrative and economic structure, and I analyze it in search of promising avenues for reform. This is a huge amount of work for you, and a large amount of work for me, but we'll always be on the same page and the world will be very internally consistent.

3) I make some things up that do not contradict any established facts, and for which I already have plausible sounding reforms in mind, and they are true because Kitava and her entire staff have Embassy 5 and so unless she's been cleverly deceived she's never going to be completely wrong about a bureaucratic analysis. This is often called, "Yes, and..." because the idea is that when either the storyteller or player declare something, unless it directly contradicts a previously established setting detail (and even then, sometimes, if it's good enough to work to reconcile the two), the other party says, "Yes, and..." making it true and adding on to it to continue the story.

4) We do none of the above, because there is nothing about Kandara that Kitava can improve. She takes one look at its administration and finds it to be, in her estimation, perfect. She takes notes, sits down, and entertains herself with her personal business interests for the rest of the story until something happens to her. This is quite possible if one of the central themes of the campaign is, "Kandara would be better off without the Realm, and we're going to see how the corruption and greed of the Realm slowly strangles the life out of its perfection." In which case, we'll need to work together to redesign Kitava, because her character concept makes no sense for this story. Instead we could make her corrupt and venal, or so singularly focused on Sorcerous and occult power she sees Kandara only as a source of resources to further her research. She'll be a villain, or at best an antihero if her research turns out to save the day when things go to hell, but she could have a redemption arc.

I gave 1 a try, but I (incorrectly, I think) interpreted your response as, "The story I have in mind doesn't demand any specific reforms, and 2 sounds like too much work, so please give me 3." If you'd like me to do 1 instead, just let me know what reforms you'd like Kitava to work on, and she'll enthusiastically go to town.

I don't think you interpreted my response wrongly at all. In my mind, the issue was that I had envisioned both Netara and Boroma as being good people - loyal to the Realm, but wanting to do right by their subjects - and back then I didn't think allowing purchased roles was in keeping with that, as I indicated above.

In general, I find I'm willing to accommodate player contributions, as long as they don't contradict any visions I have regarding NPC's.

 

[Rykon]

jaydude , Ah I'll pass for the garrison scene. As for Manato's account, he's suspecting the worst case is that the Tyrant Lizard is a Lunar Anathema. A marked dangerous beast behaves abnormally and disappears after taking out an important Dragon-Blooded in the midst of other Dragon-Blooded. It's more about sizing up the potential threat and what he should expect in the actual confrontation. If that is the case then it's not that their mark disappeared, but merely changed shape. The culprit at that point could be anywhere or anyone. It's a small wonder why they are the stuff of nightmares for the Realm.

 

[WlfSamurai]

jaydude , Join Battle is listed as "Appropriate Attribute + Appropriate Ability". Do I get to choose?

 

[jaydude]

jaydude , Join Battle is listed as "Appropriate Attribute + Appropriate Ability". Do I get to choose?

Yeah. I'm gonna say you can pick your attribute, and then either Awareness or Close Combat. Were the two thugs not within melee distance of you, I'd let you use Ranged Combat if you wanted.

 

[jaydude]

WlfSamurai
I've finished making my rolls. I've also gone ahead and given the thugs a bit of a nerf in regards to Defense and Hardness; the previous stats were more akin to those of mortal champions than common criminals.

 

[WlfSamurai]

WlfSamurai
I've finished making my rolls. I've also gone ahead and given the thugs a bit of a nerf in regards to Defense and Hardness; the previous stats were more akin to those of mortal champions than common criminals.

I do have an evasion Charm that I can declare on step 2. I'll pass on it on this one, but I have to declare it after they declare their attack, right?

 

[WlfSamurai]

Also! Is accuracy +2 dice or +2 successes as it says on 392 of the manuscript?!

 

[jaydude]

WlfSamurai
Yeah, now that you mention it, you're right; it should be +2 successes. Though by an amusing coincidence this doesn't change anything, seeing as the two thugs each rolled a 10 with one of their last two dice (I'm assuming the double 10's rule still applies to attack rolls).

If you want, you can go ahead and use that Charm in your latest post. In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have skipped over Step 2; I just felt that there wasn't much point to it, since I can't see anything in the Essence rules about raising static values through Stunts and Excellencies.

 

[Chowlett]

jaydude I'm going to pass for Ferala in Kitava's planning meeting. I'll assume she can make financial forecasts until the (elementally-aspected) cows come home.

 

[WlfSamurai]

WlfSamurai
Yeah, now that you mention it, you're right; it should be +2 successes. Though by an amusing coincidence this doesn't change anything, seeing as the two thugs each rolled a 10 with one of their last two dice (I'm assuming the double 10's rule still applies to attack rolls).

If you want, you can go ahead and use that Charm in your latest post. In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have skipped over Step 2; I just felt that there wasn't much point to it, since I can't see anything in the Essence rules about raising static values through Stunts and Excellencies.

No! I'm good without using it right this moment. I didn't even realize there we still steps until I went and looked at the Charm.

All good for now.

 

[WlfSamurai]

I keep forgetting to ask, how are we handling stunts? Will you let us know when we should take it?

 

[jaydude]

I keep forgetting to ask, how are we handling stunts? Will you let us know when we should take it?

I said back in this post that I was letting you assume your own stunts. Or was there something else you wanted to know?

 

[WlfSamurai]

I said back in this post that I was letting you assume your own stunts. Or was there something else you wanted to know?

Nope, you're right. Sorry I forgot. Thanks!

 

[WlfSamurai]

Okay, jaydude , just to make sure I have this right:

If I activate graceful crane stance/spider-foot style, since it's not defined, that is technically during step 1. And then, I would not be able to ALSO activate an excellency since that is also step 1, right?

 

[jaydude]

Okay, jaydude , just to make sure I have this right:

If I activate graceful crane stance/spider-foot style, since it's not defined, that is technically during step 1. And then, I would not be able to ALSO activate an excellency since that is also step 1, right?

Yes, that's correct. You can only use a single Charm per step of combat.

 

[WlfSamurai]

Yes, that's correct. You can only use a single Charm per step of combat.

Sorry for all the questions. I mean, it is all new, really. This is really interesting, though.

Do 10's count as double successes in damage rolls!?

 

[WlfSamurai]

So, I think that's right. Let me know if I need to change it...

 

[jaydude]

Sorry for all the questions. I mean, it is all new, really. This is really interesting, though.

Do 10's count as double successes in damage rolls!?

No worries. This is all new for me as well. As for Double 10's, there's nothing in the manuscript about them not applying to damage rolls, so I'm gonna say they can apply.

 

[WlfSamurai]

No worries. This is all new for me as well. As for Double 10's, there's nothing in the manuscript about them not applying to damage rolls, so I'm gonna say they can apply.

Yeah, I was like scouring for it because I was finding it hard to believe. But, honestly, why not? It's so much simpler...

 

[WlfSamurai]

Man, I like the way this feels to play. I don't feel like I'm forgetting some bonus or something. It's really nice.

 

[Chowlett]

jaydude , WlfSamurai - in case it helps with your scene, I think it's reasonable to assume Ferala is familiar with the Rats' Nest and the patrons; many of whom will also know her. She doesn't go there much, though - the level of criminal she usually has to deal with is a couple of class rungs higher up.

 

[jaydude]

jaydude , WlfSamurai - in case it helps with your scene, I think it's reasonable to assume Ferala is familiar with the Rats' Nest and the patrons; many of whom will also know her. She doesn't go there much, though - the level of criminal she usually has to deal with is a couple of class rungs higher up.

Yeah, that works for me. In terms of "a couple of class rungs higher up", what were you thinking of?