Experiences Player Issues in Group vs 1x1 RPs

[AlbaGuBrath]

So, I was thinking about this recently, and I wanted to know what y'all thought about it. I'm sure we've all been in a roleplay before where there was just this one person that you didn't really like. Maybe they were obnoxious OOC, their character really managed to grind your gears, your writing styles really didn't mesh, etc. Or maybe it was all of the above! But despite all this, and especially if your issues with them are more personal than them actually doing something wrong, it can be difficult to address.

In a 1x1 situation, it's not so bad. It's easier for you both to make adjustments and continue on if you wish, or to politely bow out if you don't. There's only the two of you to worry about, and as long as you can be polite and ensure no feelings with the other party, things should be alright.
But, it's a little more complicated with a group, especially that unusual handful-group that's big enough to not be 1x1, but too small to really allow characters to spread out and create smaller groups effectively, and thus avoid contact with people you'd prefer not to write with. In those cases, there are more people to consider than just the two involved, and all of their feelings and experiences should be considered.

If one player is so irritated by another that it is affecting their ability to enjoy themselves, but the person in question hasn't done anything technically wrong and doesn't seem to be bothering anybody else, how can a GM resolve this issue? What if one of the parties involved is the GM themselves? How do these dynamics differ between 1x1 vs small group vs large group? How would you deal with these situations yourself? How have you dealt with them in the past?

 

[Dalamus Ulom]

Honestly, I just try to work past it or leave. There's not much a GM can do with someone who's got an obnoxious attitude, especially if the GM's the one with said attitude. Of course, I know that if the GM's lime that, I'm usually leaving as soon as possible. I spent way to long in a tiny group where the GM was a total asshat to be able to deal with another asshat GM.

With a large group, it's usually pretty easy to escape dealing with them, as you said. I don't do 1x1s, so I'm gonna have to take your word on that part. Small groups are definitely the most likely out of the three to have player/ooc conflict. It could be an obnoxious attitude, a weird writing style, or a few other things. I'd say that, if you don't want to leave the group, you should try to gently bring it up in OOC, and tell them you feel as kindly as possible. Depending on the person and the problem, it can either have the problem person try and fix their ways, or cause said problem person to flip out, thus proving to the GM that they aren't worth keeping around(unless the problem person IS the GM. Then once again I'd say just leave. It isn't worth it).

 

[QuirkyAngel]

I agree with Dalamus. Though I would suggest talking via pm rather than the ooc chat. The thing with group rps are that conflicts like this do affect group dynamic. There are some problems that are more personal and, if you don't like the particular player for any particular reason, you can either respectful tell them so(kindly)...or ignore them. There's no need to let anyone else know about the personal conflict unless it's a critical issue that you feel must be shared with the group/gm.

If the gm's the one you don't like...then the only options are to talk to them or drop out of their rp. Pm if it's a personal issue between you and the gm. Ooc if it's something you want to share to with the group. Otherwise it's pretty much the same as handling it 1x1. If there's someone you like rping with in the group and some you don't like in the group, it's really up to you to decide whether you can work it out with the player you don't like, if you can ignore them, or if it's too uncomfortable and you just have to drop.

 

[AlbaGuBrath]

Those sound like very good options! Have you had experiences of your own similar to this?

 

[QuirkyAngel]

Sure I have. But it's not usually something I can't ignore...assuming I like the rp and if no one else seems to mind. You're never going to like everyone 100% of the time in any group endeavor. That's just me though. I have thick skin so I can endure for the most part. I'll count the positives to balance the negatives. And if it's something I can't ignore(happened once with a player accused of a serious issue in an rp I was gming), I usually discuss things privately, both out of consideration for the person in question and consideration of the rps atmosphere. No one really wants to dampen the mood.

 

[Not Calm]

As a GM in the group situation, and as someone being affected by the issue, I’m not sure what I would do. On one hand, asking others seems like a good idea, until you realize how much it would offend the person causing the issue. On the other hand, ‘just living with it’ as a GM means that whoever else is dealing with it can’t do much about it. I think I would have to wait until someone brings the issue to my attention. Neutrality is important in a GM role.

 

[AlbaGuBrath]

As a GM in the group situation, and as someone being affected by the issue, I’m not sure what I would do. On one hand, asking others seems like a good idea, until you realize how much it would offend the person causing the issue. On the other hand, ‘just living with it’ as a GM means that whoever else is dealing with it can’t do much about it. I think I would have to wait until someone brings the issue to my attention. Neutrality is important in a GM role.

Yeah, I understand. I've been in the same spot before. I hate drama, so I've usually just left it alone for as long as possible, but that doesn't really solve the issue. It usually takes a pretty big issue to make me willing to confront it (because anxiety stinks) but I'm trying to work on that. I don't want to be that person who's supposed to be leading, but then just stands back and doesn't do anything.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

Yeah, I understand. I've been in the same spot before. I hate drama, so I've usually just left it alone for as long as possible, but that doesn't really solve the issue. It usually takes a pretty big issue to make me willing to confront it (because anxiety stinks) but I'm trying to work on that. I don't want to be that person who's supposed to be leading, but then just stands back and doesn't do anything.

Leaders have a tough job u_u

As a GM in the group situation, and as someone being affected by the issue, I’m not sure what I would do. On one hand, asking others seems like a good idea, until you realize how much it would offend the person causing the issue. On the other hand, ‘just living with it’ as a GM means that whoever else is dealing with it can’t do much about it. I think I would have to wait until someone brings the issue to my attention. Neutrality is important in a GM role.

Admittedly, that's probably what I would do as well. I dislike conflict and picking sides is hard for me. My side is often the side of least argument, even though I know letting an invisible issue fester doesn't do anything good in the long run =/

Maintaining neutrality means being able to see things in both perspectives. At the same time, one shouldn't really ignore their own perspective in things either. I know that, though, similar to AlbaGuBrath, It's something I've got to work on. I find that I'm more likely to bring up an issue as a gm rather than a player in a group rp. As a gm, it's my rp. Therefore my responsibility. I want people to enjoy themselves in any rp I create. As a player, it's easier for me to ignore things if it's not a major issue, especially if it's my own issues I'm dealing with.

 

[ataraxia]

not related to my time here, but i had this issue with a player once. it started in a couple of 1x1s, she ditched the first one without warning after assuring me she'd post soon. then, she inquired about a second plot and blamed losing the muse for ditching. i could understand and i'm a nice person so i gave her a second chance. i wish i hadn't, as she tried to control what my characters thought and felt. so i just politely bowed out and planned to ignore her from then on. until she applied to a group, plotted, and tried to take over as gm when i wasn't online. after a couple of others mentioned the way she was doing that, i finally messaged her and told her all of my grievances. she apologized and seemed behaved afterwards. ended up ditching after we had already started, but i felt good talking to her about my issues.

i vote talk it out, in pm. it's easier and leaves less room for bitterness later.

 

[rae2nerdy]

So here are some tips I have for learning to manage difficult people.

1. Know your limits. if something upsets you to the point that you can walk away from the keyboard entirely for a day and come back and STILL be in the same heated and irrational frame of mind than it's not something you need to be dealing with.

And you should probably just leave that roleplay.

In my experience unless someone is breaking the rules ( or the roleplay or the site ) they aren't going to leave. So instead you have to learn to say - ya know what this stress isn't worth it I'm going to leave.

You don't have to give an explanation either. Just say - this roleplay isn't working out for me at this time and I wish you all luck.

Now if the person is breaking the rules then report them to whichever is the relevant authority. You can do this via pms in a manner that is anonymous to the person in question.

If the person is breaking the rules ( of the roleplay ) and not facing consequences. I would also leave because that kind of favoritism or lack of leaderships is only going to exacerbate any interpersonal issues you have within the group.

 

[ChoShadow]

In a group setting it depends on your position in the RP.

If you are the GM, you cannot be shy about dealing with a problem role-player.

If one player has a problem for someone else, chances are the rest of the participants have problems with this individual as well. You should ask all participants if they have any complaints about said individual, and if they do then it falls on you do deal with the issue.

Bring the problem to everyone's attention in a post like the following in your OOC thread (tagging all active participants including the problem player):

"Everyone, it has come to my attention that the actions of (problem player) in this OOC thread have been rubbing many of the other participants in the wrong way.

So, (problem player), this is officially a warning from myself as the GM of this RP to you: Curb your language, cut the crap, and start treating the others with the respect they deserve. They came here to enjoy the RP experience, and you and your attitude are robbing them of that experience. If you do not comply, you are out of the RP.

Thank you."

This post is short and to the point, and likely will drive the problem role-player from the RP if they are the type of player you seem to be describing in your initial question. If it does not drive them from the RP immediately, then chances are they are in fact someone who can accept the criticism and change their behavior. If so, problem solved. If they left, problem solved. Win-win.

But you must be direct as the GM about dealing with these types of issues.

I will reiterate this point and bold the text to emphasize the importance of the message...: If you are the GM, you cannot be shy about dealing with a problem role-player. If someone is causing problems for one person, chances are they're causing problems for everyone and it falls on you to take care of things.

If you are not the GM, then it is not your place to do something about this individual. Bring your problem, or the problem another player confided in you, to the GM's attention and let them deal with it. If they do not deal with it for whatever reason, the best move is likely to leave the RP and move on because if the GM doesn't deal with a problem that many other role-players are facing then they weren't a good GM to begin with. You're all better off leaving in that instance. If the GM does something about it, problem solved (hopefully).

But if you are not the GM it's not your place to solve the issue. Bring it to the GM's attention and let them do it.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Bring the problem to everyone's attention in a post like the following in your OOC thread (tagging all active participants including the problem player):

"Everyone, it has come to my attention that the actions of (problem player) in this OOC thread have been rubbing many of the other participants in the wrong way.

So, (problem player), this is officially a warning from myself as the GM of this RP to you: Curb your language, cut the crap, and start treating the others with the respect they deserve. They came here to enjoy the RP experience, and you and your attitude are robbing them of that experience. If you do not comply, you are out of the RP.

Thank you."
.

I'll agree with the content but not the delivery. In my experience posting a message like the one above in a public place is just going to make the person in question either defensive or it makes you look like a rude/insensitive person.

Best case scenario it does what you want it to do but leaves the rest of your players with the feeling that they might suddenly be put on blast if they cross a line. Worst case scenario it kicks off a hornet's nest of self-righteousness in the thread itself.

I would instead send the message to the person specifically. This way you're addressing the issue in a way that doesn't put the person immediately on the spot or back them into a corner.

As someone who has indeed been called out by multiple GMs in the past I can say for a fact that not one of those times did it induce me to change my behavior. At least not in a productive manner. Sure ONE time I did indeed change a character because the GM was bullied by some random troll in their own thread to go after me. But that was because I had seen the troll active in the thread and the change being asked of me wasn't big enough that I was comfortable kicking up a fuss about it.

The other times it happened I absolutely left the threads in question because I'm not going to stick around a situation where I can see that the GM only cares about specific people and their opinions OR they can easily be bullied into calling people out just as a method of keeping the peace.

Now in the cases where someone has instead private messaged me or dm'd me an issue that has been brought to their attention I am much more likely to either alter whatever it is I'm doing ( assuming I'm offending someone or doing something wrong ) or I'll give my side of the issue and let the GM decide how to handle it.

Either way it allows both sides to feel heard rather than one side feel like they're being attacked just because someone had a problem with their behavior.

Because the people that are trolls/won't change their behavior are going to feel attacked now matter what you say but the people who are likely to actually reach a compromise will be far more likely to do so if they feel like they're respected than if they are sort of ambushed by the person in charge in a public manner.

 

[ChoShadow]

I'll agree with the content but not the delivery. In my experience posting a message like the one above in a public place is just going to make the person in question either defensive or it makes you look like a rude/insensitive person.

Best case scenario it does what you want it to do but leaves the rest of your players with the feeling that they might suddenly be put on blast if they cross a line. Worst case scenario it kicks off a hornet's nest of self-righteousness in the thread itself.

I would instead send the message to the person specifically. This way you're addressing the issue in a way that doesn't put the person immediately on the spot or back them into a corner.

As someone who has indeed been called out by multiple GMs in the past I can say for a fact that not one of those times did it induce me to change my behavior. At least not in a productive manner. Sure ONE time I did indeed change a character because the GM was bullied by some random troll in their own thread to go after me. But that was because I had seen the troll active in the thread and the change being asked of me wasn't big enough that I was comfortable kicking up a fuss about it.

The other times it happened I absolutely left the threads in question because I'm not going to stick around a situation where I can see that the GM only cares about specific people and their opinions OR they can easily be bullied into calling people out just as a method of keeping the peace.

Now in the cases where someone has instead private messaged me or dm'd me an issue that has been brought to their attention I am much more likely to either alter whatever it is I'm doing ( assuming I'm offending someone or doing something wrong ) or I'll give my side of the issue and let the GM decide how to handle it.

Either way it allows both sides to feel heard rather than one side feel like they're being attacked just because someone had a problem with their behavior.

Because the people that are trolls/won't change their behavior are going to feel attacked now matter what you say but the people who are likely to actually reach a compromise will be far more likely to do so if they feel like they're respected than if they are sort of ambushed by the person in charge in a public manner.

Respectfully I have to disagree.

The method I described, while the example was overly simplistic, has never failed me in almost 20 years of roleplaying. So while some see it as overkill or even overly aggressive, it does in fact work. At least it's always worked for me. Maybe that's luck. Maybe it's something else.

The fact of the matter it the delivery of my method will depend on the severity of the issues, and it will have to be handled on a case by case basis.

For example:

Let's say that a problem player created a character for an RP I've created, and it's an action/drama RP. Let's also say that IC, his character is now somehow seemingly jumping from place to place helping everyone and solving their problems. But the problem here is that the other players specifically created problems for their own character to resolve such as a difficult enemy to fight or some other kind of issue. Let's also say he does this in a way that doesn't fit with the given talents in his character profile. As well we'll say that when the GM (me for the sake of argument) says "I'm going to start this event and everyone is going to get hurt in some way that will affect them moving forward for a little while", but he only gives his character a tiny scratch on the arm which doesn't show any signs of affecting his performance IC.

Given all of this, let's say that I wasn't noticing or chose to let it slide the whole time. But now I'm getting pm's from the others saying "What gives? How come this guy is everywhere solving the problems we create for ourselves and then avoiding damage despite your saying that we had to take damage?"

My response would still become public, but it would shift in tone and presentation to something along the lines of the following:

"(Name of problem player), after reviewing your IC content it has come to my attention that you are now flirting with God-Modding. You have continually resolved problems other players didn't want you to resolve in an unrealistic way, being seemingly everywhere at once and able to handle all of the situations despite your character profile not describing any such talents. You have continually avoided any damage which has been directed at all players by me as the GM as a means of creating drama and vulnerability amongst the cast.

I must request that you begin to curb this habit. The problems in the IC thread are not all yours to solve. This is a group-based RP and we all have our own conflicts and resolutions we'd like to play out. Please be sure to contact other role-players if you intend to help/save them IC. And if I as the GM say that everyone is about to take some damage, do not avoid it. Let the vulnerability and injuries come, and work IC to overcome them.

Thank you."

Again the first example I gave was overly simplistic and something I'd only do if I saw that this individual was becoming a troll-like nuisance. I would never be that aggressive on someone who seemed to be causing problems passively by trying to act as a kind of 'ultimate peace keeper' IC, and seemingly doing so in a way which demonstrated they didn't know they were causing a problem.

The severity of the issues and the types of complaints you receive will dictate how you respond, but I always do so publicly. I've been roleplaying for about 20 years now, and the method has never once failed or led to the destruction of an RP I've created. Nor has it sparked flame wars or horrendous conflict in the threads.

I realize this method probably won't work for everyone, but it works for me so I'm sharing it in the event it does work for someone else. Maybe my success has more to do with my personality and experience in dealing with problem players. I don't know. But I do know that it's never failed or caused the problems you described in your response.

Handle the issue case by case, but I stand by my recommendation to never be afraid to go public with presenting a problem player of their misdeeds either IC or OOC.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Respectfully I have to disagree.

The method I described, while the example was overly simplistic, has never failed me in almost 20 years of roleplaying. So while some see it as overkill or even overly aggressive, it does in fact work. At least it's always worked for me. Maybe that's luck. Maybe it's something else.

The fact of the matter it the delivery of my method will depend on the severity of the issues, and it will have to be handled on a case by case basis.

For example:

Let's say that a problem player created a character for an RP I've created, and it's an action/drama RP. Let's also say that IC, his character is now somehow seemingly jumping from place to place helping everyone and solving their problems. But the problem here is that the other players specifically created problems for their own character to resolve such as a difficult enemy to fight or some other kind of issue. Let's also say he does this in a way that doesn't fit with the given talents in his character profile. As well we'll say that when the GM (me for the sake of argument) says "I'm going to start this event and everyone is going to get hurt in some way that will affect them moving forward for a little while", but he only gives his character a tiny scratch on the arm which doesn't show any signs of affecting his performance IC.

Given all of this, let's say that I wasn't noticing or chose to let it slide the whole time. But now I'm getting pm's from the others saying "What gives? How come this guy is everywhere solving the problems we create for ourselves and then avoiding damage despite your saying that we had to take damage?"

My response would still become public, but it would shift in tone and presentation to something along the lines of the following:

"(Name of problem player), after reviewing your IC content it has come to my attention that you are now flirting with God-Modding. You have continually resolved problems other players didn't want you to resolve in an unrealistic way, being seemingly everywhere at once and able to handle all of the situations despite your character profile not describing any such talents. You have continually avoided any damage which has been directed at all players by me as the GM as a means of creating drama and vulnerability amongst the cast.

I must request that you begin to curb this habit. The problems in the IC thread are not all yours to solve. This is a group-based RP and we all have our own conflicts and resolutions we'd like to play out. Please be sure to contact other role-players if you intend to help/save them IC. And if I as the GM say that everyone is about to take some damage, do not avoid it. Let the vulnerability and injuries come, and work IC to overcome them.

Thank you."

Again the first example I gave was overly simplistic and something I'd only do if I saw that this individual was becoming a troll-like nuisance. I would never be that aggressive on someone who seemed to be causing problems passively by trying to act as a kind of 'ultimate peace keeper' IC, and seemingly doing so in a way which demonstrated they didn't know they were causing a problem.

The severity of the issues and the types of complaints you receive will dictate how you respond, but I always do so publicly. I've been roleplaying for about 20 years now, and the method has never once failed or led to the destruction of an RP I've created. Nor has it sparked flame wars or horrendous conflict in the threads.

I realize this method probably won't work for everyone, but it works for me so I'm sharing it in the event it does work for someone else. Maybe my success has more to do with my personality and experience in dealing with problem players. I don't know. But I do know that it's never failed or caused the problems you described in your response.

Handle the issue case by case, but I stand by my recommendation to never be afraid to go public with presenting a problem player of their misdeeds either IC or OOC.

And to be clear I think your messaging is on point I just think that public shaming of people to curb problem behavior should maybe not be the first step in problem solving.

Because honestly it isn't going to bring anything extra to your message that wouldn't have been gotten across in a private method. Perhaps that was simply not available in your old sites and you've gotten into the habit of public displays like that. But on this site specifically your pm feature is very robust and is more than up to the task of getting a disciplinary message across.

PRIVATE MESSAGING
So what I recommend would be starting off by sending the messages in your post to the problem player in a pm.

If you do not see a favorable response one way or another than send a second pm telling them they have been banned from your thread.

After you have banned them then you can get the rest of the thread involved again via private messaging. ( on this site you can message I believe up to 20 people in a single pm )

So and So has been banned from this roleplay. I have informed them of this as of [ date/time] in a pm. If they continue to post in the thread please inform me immediately so I can take further actions.

In the meantime if you find their content upsetting here is how you can block them.

[ detailed information on blocking a person. which prevents you from seeing their content on this site ]​

And the moment they keep posting after you have banned them I would go to the Staff. Because at that point they are posting in a thread they have been banned from and it's a problem for the site staff.

( or if your not comfortable going that far just block them yourself. again it erases their content from your visibility so it won't matter if they keep posting you won't see it anyway )


THE EXECUTION
The problem with your suggestion to use public shaming to get someone to alter their behavior is I really can't see where that method brings anything other than problematic messaging into the picture.

If it does work all it does is tell your players that you are the kind of person to use peer pressure to get what you want. Which makes you seem kind of a bully .

If it doesn't work I can't imagine anything would have been lost by keeping it to pms rather than making it all public. Except again it makes you seem more civil.