Other Pairing Preference Discussion

[rae2nerdy]

Hum...why exactly would anyone have to be interested in writing non-heterosexual couples? Why is not having an interest in that disrespectful?

Or are you saying we all need to try roleplaying those couples and research into it even if it's not something we're interested in to begin with?

What does the sexual orientation of characters one likes to write about have anything to do with their disposition towards work or creativity? Like I would say you have a point if a person wasn't willing to research at all, but to say that just because they can't be bothered to waste their time researching into a topic that doesn't interest them is a bit too much.

Plus I'd think of all people someone who says



would understand someone having some discomforts they didn't really choose to have.

So I think what you and the rest of the people who are dismissing their anger are forgetting.

Gay people actually do face in real life discrimination. There are people in real life who treat being gay like it’s wrong or dirty or a disease or whatever.

I’m not saying that everyone who has that preference believes that stuff in real life.

But it does kind of come across as scummy when you act like the reason you can’t write something is because there is something wrong with it.

I think the whole thing could be avoided if folks stopped trying to justify themselves.

It’s like saying I’m not a bigot but gay people make me uncomfortable.

Rather than just saying hey I like MxF pairings only.

 

[Sara Sidereal]

So I think what you and the rest of the people who are dismissing their anger are forgetting.

Gay people actually do face in real life discrimination. There are people in real life who treat being gay like it’s wrong or dirty or a disease or whatever.

I’m not saying that everyone who has that preference believes that stuff in real life.

But it does kind of come across as scummy when you act like the reason you can’t write something is because there is something wrong with it.

I think the whole thing could be avoided if folks stopped trying to justify themselves.

It’s like saying I’m not a bigot but gay people make me uncomfortable.

Rather than just saying hey I like MxF pairings only.

Agree, everyone should change their unconscious feelings over which they have no control to suit me

 

[rae2nerdy]

Agree, everyone should change their unconscious feelings over which they have no control to suit me

Um or just not try to justify themselves because it’s not necessary.

Like you don’t need to justify preferences. Just say clearly I only like X.

People are naturally going to assume that means you don’t do Y and Z.

The problem isn’t people’s feelings it’s that they feel like they have to justify themselves and it makes them comes across as insensitive.

It’s like me saying - I don’t do romantic pairings because I think romance is over rated and tends to take over the roleplay.

Like dude no one cares why I don’t do romance unless I am specifically responding to a thread titled

“Do you write romance? Why or Why Not?”

Most people just see “I don’t write romance” and move on their way.

My point is all you have to do is just put “I do MxF romance only.”

Boom no one cares why. They’ll just know you either write pairings they like or you don’t and there is no need for any drama.

Idea dont know how to do multiple quote thingy but the Unicorn in my platonic post referenced the fact that finding a platonic player is like finding a unicorn in the 1x1 section. They exist they’re just rare and magical

 

[Sara Sidereal]

Um or just not try to justify themselves because it’s not necessary.

Like you don’t need to justify preferences. Just say clearly I only like X.

People are naturally going to assume that means you don’t do Y and Z.

The problem isn’t people’s feelings it’s that they feel like they have to justify themselves and it makes them comes across as insensitive.

It’s like me saying - I don’t do romantic pairings because I think romance is over rated and tends to take over the roleplay.

Like dude no one cares why I don’t do romance unless I am specifically responding to a thread titled

“Do you write romance? Why or Why Not?”

Most people just see “I don’t write romance” and move on their way.

My point is all you have to do is just put “I do MxF romance only.”

Boom no one cares why. They’ll just know you either write pairings they like or you don’t and there is no need for any drama.

counterpoint: people should express themselves however they see fit.

 

[rae2nerdy]

counterpoint: people should express themselves however they see fit.

Yeah but like if you offend someone doing that you gotta take responsibility for that.

You can absolutely say whatever you want, your just not allowed to use that as an excuse when you make someone upset.

 

[Idea]

So I think what you and the rest of the people who are dismissing their anger are forgetting.

Gay people actually do face in real life discrimination. There are people in real life who treat being gay like it’s wrong or dirty or a disease or whatever.

I’m not saying that everyone who has that preference believes that stuff in real life.

But it does kind of come across as scummy when you act like the reason you can’t write something is because there is something wrong with it.

But... that's not in the slightest what anyone is saying. As in nobody is saying that there is something wrong with gay couples. In fact that is precisely the thing they feel the need to justify themselves against, accusations of being somehow against gay couples due to a worry regarding them or a discomfort regarding them. Mistaking "I don't feel comfortable with" or "I don't believe I understand this" as "I think there is something wrong with is" is precisely what prompts people to fear that they have to put those warnings in the first place. Their anger against these people who are just trying to defend themselves against random accusations is unjustified. However, that is not the problem.

Geek, please look at the segments actually quoted: What me and PhoenixMire took issue is the, forgive my language, moronic idea that just because someone is uncomfortable or unwilling to research into a certain topic that is completely tangential to their actual roleplaying they are lazy, uncreative bad writers.

 

[Sara Sidereal]

Yeah but like if you offend someone doing that you gotta take responsibility for that.

You can absolutely say whatever you want, your just not allowed to use that as an excuse when you make someone upset.

No, they don't. People don't need your approval. Block them if you don't like how they act.

 

[Idea]

Yeah but like if you offend someone doing that you gotta take responsibility for that.

You can absolutely say whatever you want, your just not allowed to use that as an excuse when you make someone upset.

I'd be inclined to agree with you if there had been:
-any intention of upsetting anyone
-behavior that would actually demean or attack anyone
-any legitimate reason why this person should accomodate others

Yeah, it's not nice to upset people, but ultimately the consequence for that is losing the people you upset as potential partners. Other than that, it needs to be pretty serious for you to have to "take responsability", but in this case it's not an attack in the first place, it's people trying to defend themselves against precisely this type of accusation that bases itself entirely on the projection of discrimination that these people had nothing to do with (presumably) onto their earnest attempt to defend themselves and not upset people.

The irony here is that again this anger with which people are being insulted is the result of them trying not to upset people.

 

[rae2nerdy]

But... that's not in the slightest what anyone is saying. As in nobody is saying that there is something wrong with gay couples. In fact that is precisely the thing they feel the need to justify themselves against, accusations of being somehow against gay couples due to a worry regarding them or a discomfort regarding them. Mistaking "I don't feel comfortable with" or "I don't believe I understand this" as "I think there is something wrong with is" is precisely what prompts people to fear that they have to put those warnings in the first place. Their anger against these people who are just trying to defend themselves against random accusations is unjustified. However, that is not the problem.

Geek, please look at the segments actually quoted: What me and PhoenixMire took issue is the, forgive my language, moronic idea that just because someone is uncomfortable or unwilling to research into a certain topic that is completely tangential to their actual roleplaying they are lazy, uncreative bad writers.

And I my point is why do you think people feel it’s lazy and uncreative? Because it others gay people.

And it others gay people precisely because of the need to justify.

I understand what people are trying to do I’m just saying it’s not working.

If people just don’t want to do something than stating very simply “I don’t do X” is sufficient.

No one thinks your lazy or bigoted or whatever for having a preference.

Now I understand that a vast majority of the people on this site are insecure and they can’t help that.

But when someone tells you something isn’t having the intended side effect that you wanted. (Making you seem more inclusive)


And they are actually from the group of people your trying not to offend then maybe you should listen rather than try to justify that yourself.

Their problems all stem from the justification if you actually read their posts.

It’s the “writing gay people make me uncomfortable or I don’t know how”.

So maybe stop writing that to justify a preference and they’ll stop calling you lazy and uncreative.

Or maybe they won’t at which point I would arguing with them about being dicks.

 

[rae2nerdy]

The irony here is that again this anger with which people are being insulted is the result of them trying not to upset people.

Because I’m going to assume the people who are trying not to offend gay people never actually asked a gay person how to go about not being offensive.

They just reacted to past experience of Person X was offended when I said Y so I need to explain Y so I don’t offend person X again.

When it could be Person X is just an asshole and would be offended if you said the sky was blue.

Like I understand what they are trying to do and I do applaud them for having the instinct not to offend.

My issue is when gay people are actually telling you themselves they what your doing is offensive then maybe take a break and ask yourself.

Exactly who am I trying not to offend here?

And yeah maybe trhe other posters shouldn’t also start throwing out accusations about people being lazy or bad writers. That wasn’t called for and kind of a problem from a different angle.

I think if people really and truly don’t want to make people angry than maybe make a thread asking LGBTQA community - hey how can I say this sentiment without coming across as insensitive.

 

[Idea]

And I my point is why do you think people feel it’s lazy and uncreative? Because it others gay people.

And it others gay people precisely because of the need to justify.

I understand what people are trying to do I’m just saying it’s not working.

If people just don’t want to do something than stating very simply “I don’t do X” is sufficient.

No one thinks your lazy or bigoted or whatever for having a preference.

Now I understand that a vast majority of the people on this site are insecure and they can’t help that.

But when someone tells you something isn’t having the intended side effect that you wanted. (Making you seem more inclusive)


And they are actually from the group of people your trying not to offend then maybe you should listen rather than try to justify that yourself.

Their problems all stem from the justification if you actually read their posts.

It’s the “writing gay people make me uncomfortable or I don’t know how”.

So maybe stop writing that to justify a preference and they’ll stop calling you lazy and uncreative.

Or maybe they won’t at which point so would arguing with them about being dicks.

Those two things have nothing to do with each other!

Like I'm not saying you're mistaken in the whole "others gay people" idea- that much I can understand. I personally wouldn't add that line, but even if I did this nothing to do with one's writing.

Saying "I don't think I understand this" or "I am not comfortable with this" is not an insult. You know what IS an insult? "lazy", "uncreative" and "bad writer" are insults. Unfounded insults that have 0 to do with the topic at hand.

It's not working isn't a reason to be angry at them, it's a reason to try to be understanding of the fact that, much like you, they just have things that they have trouble dealing with. So the anger is misguided as well, though as I said, being angry isn't what I take issue it, you may not be able to help it. What I take issue with is the blatant unrelated insult seemingly steeming from a pile of entitlement.

Because I’m going to assume the people who are trying not to offend gay people never actually asked a gay person how to go about not being offensive.

They just reacted to past experience of Person X was offended when I said Y so I need to explain Y so I don’t offend person X again.

When it could be Person X is just an asshole and would be offended if you said the sky was blue.

Like I understand what they are trying to do and I do applaud them for having the instinct not to offend.

My issue is when gay people are actually telling you themselves they what your doing is offensive then maybe take a break and ask yourself.

Exactly who am I trying not to offend here?

And yeah maybe trhe other posters shouldn’t also start throwing out accusations about people being lazy or bad writers. That wasn’t called for and kind of a problem from a different angle.

I think if people really and truly don’t want to make people angry than maybe make a thread asking LGBTQA community - hey how can I say this sentiment without coming across as insensitive.

Here's the thing though: People have lives outside of LGBT people. Nobody is entitled to being accommodated by others. Nobody.

If someone were to make an RP about two atheists allying with Satan to genocide Catholics, I wouldn't want to participate and might even be a little upset, but that wouldn't necessarily make the people making those things bigots, assholes or even in the wrong persay.

The difference here is this people didn't have to go out of their way to at least try to appease people they don't want to work with to begin with but they did, whether due to past accusations or just out of a general sense of something and what do get for it? Being attacked.

These aren't people who had an LGBT person contact them about it, these are people who went with their best instincts and experience and happened not to be as effective.

Accusing them of some non-existent bigotry only furthers the problem. Putting LGBT couples in some pedestal that because of IRL discrimination you have to go out of your way to inquire about their personal life and sensibilities is the opposite of the neutrality.

Again, I agree that these signs shouldn't be posted up, but treating these people like they did something malicious is just about the worst way to approach the situation possible.

 

[rae2nerdy]

So my final thoughts on the matter is going to be a bit of advice for how to handle the "I don't want to offend people what do I do?" problem. As I don't think any further discussions on the matter is going to be productive and it's going to result in people getting in their feelings (ironic considering one of my below points.)

1. Everyone is allowed to feel their feelings. Be open to sharing your feelings and listen when other people share theirs.
2. Understand some people are just trying to start drama (if they don't give reasons for feeling a specific way than they're starting stuff).
3. Understand you will always offend someone no matter what. Just remember number 1 and you should be good.
4. If you are truly interested in not offending a specific group of people (rather than all people in general) ask that group how they feel about your actions.

And the most important thing is You ARE NOT a bad person for offending someone. You ARE a bad person if you deliberately hurt someone's feelings OR if you are TRYING to offend them.

Not saying anyone is hurting people's feelings of course. Just trying to put it perspective. You are always going to be offending someone that's just the nature of working with groups of people. As long as you are not deliberately hurting other people's feelings OR going out of your way to be offensive than you should be fine.

 

[Psyche]

I have no issues roleplaying with the majority of pairings, I did/do MxM, MxF, FxF, nb x nb etc. I personally have no issue if someone asks to only do MxF only or feel uncomfortable with homosexual relationships, mainly because people are entitled to their own opinion and that's alright.

Although I do have a different complaint that I don't believe was mentioned because this is probably just a personal annoyance. Does anyone else get turned off when someone calls it "yaoi" or "yuri"?

 

[rae2nerdy]

I have no issues roleplaying with the majority of pairings, I did/do MxM, MxF, FxF, nb x nb etc. I personally have no issue if someone asks to only do MxF only or feel uncomfortable with homosexual relationships, mainly because people are entitled to their own opinion and that's alright.

Although I do have a different complaint that I don't believe was mentioned because this is probably just a personal annoyance. Does anyone else get turned off when someone calls it "yaoi" or "yuri"?

Ugh yes. Or when they basically define their characters solely by their bedroom position. Like my dude’s this site doesn’t even allow bedroom scenes.

 

[Psyche]

Ugh yes. Or when they basically define their characters solely by their bedroom position. Like my dude’s this site doesn’t even allow bedroom scenes.

Oh thank god I'm not the only one, I kind of understand alpha/beta/omega (never would roleplay it, but that's beside the point) due to their being other elements other than sex, but when its someone saying their looking for a "dominant" or a "submissive" to roleplay with, I'm just mildly confused. What does that mean when no erotic RPing is even allowed on here? Do they want someone to dominate in areas outside of sex? Is dominant a personality that I'm missing?

If someone can fill me in on that, please do. I'm genuinely curious. Also if someone enjoys it, I don't mean to make this offensive because hey, you do you, but what exactly are you/they asking for?

 

[rae2nerdy]

Oh thank god I'm not the only one, I kind of understand alpha/beta/omega (never would roleplay it, but that's beside the point) due to their being other elements other than sex, but when its someone saying their looking for a "dominant" or a "submissive" to roleplay with, I'm just mildly confused. What does that mean when no erotic RPing is even allowed on here? Do they want someone to dominate in areas outside of sex? Is dominant a personality that I'm missing?

If someone can fill me in on that, please do. I'm genuinely curious. Also if someone enjoys it, I don't mean to make this offensive because hey, you do you, but what exactly are you/they asking for?

Assuming it’s not just a fetish they tend to be looking for kind of stereotypical characters.

The best way I know how to describe it is Fifty Shades without the sex and (maybe) not as much creepy stalker undertones.

 

[Psyche]

Assuming it’s not just a fetish they tend to be looking for kind of stereotypical characters.

The best way I know how to describe it is Fifty Shades without the sex and (maybe) not as much creepy stalker undertones.

Ah, I hope they also don't desire the "dominant" having horrible parental issues as well, and I guess it makes sense, but why not just describe those characters instead? Mainly because "dominant" can be taken in a lot of ways.

Isn't someone being a bit freaky in the bedroom, who would be considered "dominant" in there, yet is still weak, frail, unconfident etc. in other aspects of life still be considered a dominant? Now that I think of it, if someone submitted a CS with that, but adds on to the "Other" or "Extra" section "Yet he likes to top in the bedroom"- would that be considered a dominant character?

Excuse my rambling, I think I just thought too much into this lol

Edit: What about the opposite too? If you have the stereotypical strong, gruff, manly-man dom guy who likes to be the "submissive" one in the bedroom- what would he be considered? Dominant in certain aspects of life?

 

[rae2nerdy]

Ah, I hope they also don't desire the "dominant" having horrible parental issues as well, and I guess it makes sense, but why not just describe those characters instead? Mainly because "dominant" can be taken in a lot of ways.

Isn't someone being a bit freaky in the bedroom, who would be considered "dominant" in there, yet is still weak, frail, unconfident etc. in other aspects of life still be considered a dominant? Now that I think of it, if someone submitted a CS with that, but adds on to the "Other" or "Extra" section "Yet he likes to top in the bedroom"- would that be considered a dominant character?

Excuse my rambling, I think I just thought too much into this lol

Well it depends if they want to subvert tropes, I guess? Kind of like writing a “sensitive jock” or something. Which does get kind of awkward on this site since again you can’t write bedroom scenes. So their relative positioning isn’t a relevant detail.

But as near as I can tell “top” is supposed to be the “manly” position. And “bottom” is the “feminine” position.

So it’s like basically using the tropes of Manly Man and Girly Girl only not as gender specific.

And when you say someone acts against the Manly or Girly tropes but still have the top/bottom role I think it’s supposed to be like saying,

He’s a macho man but he has a sensitive side or he’s kind of scrawny but still a man where it counts.

Or she’s not a girly girl but she still knows her place?

I dunno the tropes involved are kind of confusing, tbh.

People have tried to explain them to me but it’s a lot of - Like this but not like that.

And I’m like okay but what does the bedroom have to do with any of this? (Honestly nothing as far as I can tell)

 

[Psyche]

Well it depends if they want to subvert tropes, I guess? Kind of like writing a “sensitive jock” or something. Which does get kind of awkward on this site since again you can’t write bedroom scenes. So their relative positioning isn’t a relevant detail.

But as near as I can tell “top” is supposed to be the “manly” position. And “bottom” is the “feminine” position.

So it’s like basically using the tropes of Manly Man and Girly Girl only not as gender specific.

And when you say someone acts against the Manly or Girly tropes but still have the top/bottom role I think it’s supposed to be like saying,

He’s a macho man but he has a sensitive side or he’s kind of scrawny but still a man where it counts.

Or she’s not a girly girl but she still knows her place?

I dunno the tropes involved are kind of confusing, tbh.

People have tried to explain them to me but it’s a lot of - Like this but not like that.

And I’m like okay but what does the bedroom have to do with any of this? (Honestly nothing as far as I can tell)

Seems like the "dominant" thing can be taken in multiple ways, I do think I might know why they use the word "dominant" though

Asking for something like, "I want a manly man who knows how to take charge" can make the person either feel awkward, or they might not want to sound like they're dictating the character so they leave leeway?

 

[Idea]

"yaoi" or "yuri"

Do you perhaps mean "uke" and "seme"? Cause those two mean dominant and submissive. But yaoi and yuri absolutely nothing to do with that, with the bedroom or anything like that.

Yaoi is the japanese media term (or at least the term in anime/manga, though I imagine it is a bit more widespread than that) to mean a genre dedicated to homosexual male relationships.

Similarly Yuri is a term for a genre (of anime, manga, and possibly other japanese media) dedicated to homosexual female relationships.

Now, it is admitedly true that the Yaoi genre does often feature dominant and submissive roles (which are the in the origin of the "uke" and "seme" words), but if someone is asking for "yaoi" and especially if someone is asking for "yuri" this is just the weeb version of asking for MxM or FxF

 

[birdgeoisie]

The reason "yaoi" and "yuri" are likely to make you uncomfortable (as they certainly make me uncomfortable, and the moment someone uses either of those terms i run for the hills) is the fact that those are genres based around particular relationships, and have a strong tendency to be very fetishy. Especially for yaoi, which as a fandom is usually just full of straight girls obsessing over these men. And you know, that's just a lil uncomfy.

 

[Psyche]

Do you perhaps mean "uke" and "seme"? Cause those two mean dominant and submissive. But yaoi and yuri absolutely nothing to do with that, with the bedroom or anything like that.

Yaoi is the japanese media term (or at least the term in anime/manga, though I imagine it is a bit more widespread than that) to mean a genre dedicated to homosexual male relationships.

Similarly Yuri is a term for a genre (of anime, manga, and possibly other japanese media) dedicated to homosexual female relationships.

Now, it is admitedly true that the Yaoi genre does often feature dominant and submissive roles (which are the in the origin of the "uke" and "seme" words), but if someone is asking for "yaoi" and especially if someone is asking for "yuri" this is just the weeb version of asking for MxM or FxF

I am aware of that, was my original question before it morphed into a question based on bedroom positions and what it has to do with personality in RPN(didn’t even mention dominant/submissive, found it interesting to talk about though). As I said before, anyone else can do whatever they want, just personally makes me cringe a bit seeing it. Eh, I don’t know why I’m not a huge fan of the names to be completely honest, just sounds like it’s a fetish or something if that makes any sense.

Can’t say for certain because I’ve never really watched a Yuri/Yaoi anime before, but the definition itself calls it “hentai” and it just makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.

 

[Idea]

Can’t say for certain because I’ve never really watched a Yuri/Yaoi anime before, but the definition itself calls it “hentai” and it just makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.

...I don't know who told you that, but even though I'm not exactly a fan of those genres I can assure you they aren't hentai.

If you still feel umcomfortable with them that is up to you of course, I just wanted to clear the misconception building up here.

 

[Psyche]

...I don't know who told you that, but even though I'm not exactly a fan of those genres I can assure you they aren't hentai.

If you still feel umcomfortable with them that is up to you of course, I just wanted to clear the misconception building up here.

 

[Idea]

View attachment 520573

Well, however wrote that definition either hasn't actually watched the yuri or is not aware of what hentai is