Other Pagans & Mythology RPs-- How do you view them?

[CastoffCaptain]

To me, mythology RPs directly involving the gods, whatever pantheon they might be, seem a mite... well. Blasphemous. Touched with a lack of consideration or at least understanding on the part of the people who are initiating them. This may come from just generally not understanding that yes, in fact, there are still people who actively worship/follow say, the Greek (Hellenists) or Norse (Heathens/Asatru) deities, but it's just... a tiny little nettle in my side.

It'd be like throwing out a call for a Jesus RP in the middle of a lot of Christians and asking someone to play Jesus himself. I know quite a few Christians who'd have a problem with this.

And yet, there are tons of Christian movies out there in which regular people play Jesus... so that, it can be said is very similar, yet different.

So, I'm curious. If you're a Pagan, how do you view this? To you, is this blasphemy, or is it just another way to honor the gods? We can't speak for them, so it's not like I could accurately say, "Yes, Hermes really loves it when you play him as a high school student," but it's not to say he doesn't.

Thoughts?

And please. Please. Keep it civil. Pagans, be nice to everyone who's not. Christians, do the same. We're all pretty much adults here.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I do not consider them to be religious in context I guess? Like I consider them to be little different to say - Rick Riordan's Percy Jackson Series for instance.

Like if the person I'm roleplaying with would rather not have religion feature into the roleplay that's fine but I don't take about 99% of roleplays that seriously.

That's sort of like people who get all in a stink about playing only your own race/gender/nationality. Some people think doing this is disrespectful as it means that you aren't giving all types of people a fair representation. Some people believe that's the only way to roleplay because outsiders can't give a fair representation of people who are not their gender/race/nationality.

I take the approach that this is a social medium people come into to tell make believe stories with other individuals. And while you should respect other people's personal limits when your roleplaying with them you also shouldn't be told that you can't roleplay anything that might potentially offend someone because realistically that would mean that you could never roleplay anything at all.

As there is something objectionable to at least someone about all aspects of roleplay from writing style, character creation, character images, and pretty much every plot idea and setting in existence.

Just if someone says they have a problem than address it on an individual basis but when it comes to broad themes just agree that some things aren't your cup of tea and move on.

 

[CastoffCaptain]

I do not consider them to be religious in context I guess? Like I consider them to be little different to say - Rick Riordan's Percy Jackson Series for instance.

Like if the person I'm roleplaying with would rather not have religion feature into the roleplay that's fine but I don't take about 99% of roleplays that seriously.

That's sort of like people who get all in a stink about playing only your own race/gender/nationality. Some people think doing this is disrespectful as it means that you aren't giving all types of people a fair representation. Some people believe that's the only way to roleplay because outsiders can't give a fair representation of people who are not their gender/race/nationality.

I take the approach that this is a social medium people come into to tell make believe stories with other individuals. And while you should respect other people's personal limits when your roleplaying with them you also shouldn't be told that you can't roleplay anything that might potentially offend someone because realistically that would mean that you could never roleplay anything at all.

As there is something objectionable to at least someone about all aspects of roleplay from writing style, character creation, character images, and pretty much every plot idea and setting in existence.

Just if someone says they have a problem than address it on an individual basis but when it comes to broad themes just agree that some things aren't your cup of tea and move on.

Would you consider a RP involving Jesus and the Christian God to be religious if it were done in a Percy Jackson sort of way?

 

[rae2nerdy]

Would you consider a RP involving Jesus and the Christian God to be religious if it were done in a Percy Jackson sort of way?

Not really. I mean I'm not quite sure how that would work logistically - since the whole premise around Percy Jackson plays on Greek Myths wherein the gods were super promiscuous and the Judeo-Christian gods are not so much. So it's a bit like comparing apples to oranges off the bat.

But there are some stories revolving around the children of angels ( which involves I believe a kind of bible mythology ) and even some revolving around like the Children of Adams first wife or even the Siblings of Jesus ( well okay that was Dogma which is a whole separate convo )

But like if you took something like - Such and Such is the Sibling of Jesus and they have to go on the quest to find some random Biblical Artifact that may or may not exist than no I wouldn't consider that to be religious. Mostly because it's not really intrinsically tied to the actual religion just taking elements to use for a theme of the story.

 

[CastoffCaptain]

Not really. I mean I'm not quite sure how that would work logistically - since the whole premise around Percy Jackson plays on Greek Myths wherein the gods were super promiscuous and the Judeo-Christian gods are not so much. So it's a bit like comparing apples to oranges off the bat.

But there are some stories revolving around the children of angels ( which involves I believe a kind of bible mythology ) and even some revolving around like the Children of Adams first wife or even the Siblings of Jesus ( well okay that was Dogma which is a whole separate convo )

But like if you took something like - Such and Such is the Sibling of Jesus and they have to go on the quest to find some random Biblical Artifact that may or may not exist than no I wouldn't consider that to be religious. Mostly because it's not really intrinsically tied to the actual religion just taking elements to use for a theme of the story.

Well. I'm not sure hyper-sexuality is the theme behind the Percy Jackson books, to be fair. Yes, thy had sex, but that's not the backbone of the books, so I'm not sure how that fits in when I'm not trying to compare the gods in that way.

Also, separating what people now view as canon versus things such as the apocrypha is... Difficult... Especially when even the Bible has been purposely mistranslated. So, not taking the Apocrypha or King James' paranoia into account, nor any Gnostic texts... There a a ton of stories that could be spun off of Jesus easily. It's if people would view them as disrespectful or not.

I mean, just because you don't see Hellenism as a religion, and therefore subject to all sorts of bastardization isn't at all how I see it. For me, the gods are living, viable beings. So for me, it would be just as uncomfortable to see someone RPing the Apollon as a modern-day doctor, for example, as it would be to see someone RPing Jesus as a leader of a bunch of super-powered teens fighting for truth, love,and justice in New York.

But. Again, as I mentioned before, it doesn't bother me as much to see something like Dogma, which at its core was trying to dispel some of the incorrect beliefs and hubris we have wen it comes to our own religiousness... If that makes sense. Kind of like you were getting at in your first post by mentioning that it depended on the context.

 

[CastoffCaptain]

Why can't I edit that post? I mean to say, "Yes, they (the Greek gods) had sex".

 

[MechanicalHeart]

Why can't I edit that post? I mean to say, "Yes, they (the Greek gods) had sex".

'T is still the curse of powerwolf.

 

[CastoffCaptain]

'T is still the curse of powerwolf.

Ohgodmyearsnooooo.

 

[MechanicalHeart]

How about this?

 

[MechanicalHeart]

On the topic of heresy: I think the fact that ancient religions are no longer commonly practiced and were heavily used in literature, even in their glory days, makes for a decent argumentation that using the gods in stories isn't anywhere near being considered blasphemous. Unlike our common religious friends of either cristianity and islam, they weren't as uptight about it, I guess.

 

[CastoffCaptain]

On the topic of heresy: I think the fact that ancient religions are no longer commonly practiced and were heavily used in literature, even in their glory days, makes for a decent argumentation that using the gods in stories isn't anywhere near being considered blasphemous. Unlike our common religious friends of either cristianity and islam, they weren't as uptight about it, I guess.

But I know tons of Pagans. And some would disagree with you, I think. And there are plenty of uptight non-Judeo gods. The Apollon, f'ex. Sehkmet. Epona.

 

[CastoffCaptain]

On the topic of heresy: I think the fact that ancient religions are no longer commonly practiced and were heavily used in literature, even in their glory days, makes for a decent argumentation that using the gods in stories isn't anywhere near being considered blasphemous. Unlike our common religious friends of either cristianity and islam, they weren't as uptight about it, I guess.

I also misread what you wrote, so nix that last comment. Your gloryhole music distracted me.

 

[CastoffCaptain]

On the topic of heresy: I think the fact that ancient religions are no longer commonly practiced and were heavily used in literature, even in their glory days, makes for a decent argumentation that using the gods in stories isn't anywhere near being considered blasphemous. Unlike our common religious friends of either cristianity and islam, they weren't as uptight about it, I guess.

So.
Now that I'm not sneaking a post at work here... what I should have said is: I know tons of pagans, and I think they'd disagree with you. As in, they would find it blasphemous/lacking respect. I'm trying to get a gauge from Pagans what they think, since it's fairly obvious at this point that those who don't practice Kemeticism, Heathenism, Hellenism, to name a few, aren't going to see it the same way. To them, it's just namby-pamby stories. But that's kind of the outlook that... oh... Victorian England took with its Christianity vs. Hinduism. It's not what I celebrate/worship/adhere to, therefore it's all just a bunch of stories about gods who don't act like mine, and therefore can be relegated to "oh, they had a lot of sex, therefore aren't worthy of respect" or "they did triksy things like stealing fire, therefore they're not serious enough to be respected".

If that makes sense.

There are thousands upon thousands of people who currently see the "mythological" gods as their patrons who they worship. So... it's just.. to me, it's frustrating (and yet understandable) to see that people don't put any weight to them. Yes, it from a position of ignorance of the fact that other people do still worship these gods, but that doesn't make them any less worthy of respect than say, a Christian respecting Mohammed or vice versa.

So, I'm hoping a few Pagans are actually gonna see this and speak up about it.

And I hope I stop making rushed typos, because it's becoming really annoying that I can't edit my posts on my phone, but for some reason I can on the break computer. Butts.

 

[CastoffCaptain]

How about this?

Also, damn you.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Well. I'm not sure hyper-sexuality is the theme behind the Percy Jackson books, to be fair. Yes, thy had sex, but that's not the backbone of the books, so I'm not sure how that fits in when I'm not trying to compare the gods in that way.

Also, separating what people now view as canon versus things such as the apocrypha is... Difficult... Especially when even the Bible has been purposely mistranslated. So, not taking the Apocrypha or King James' paranoia into account, nor any Gnostic texts... There a a ton of stories that could be spun off of Jesus easily. It's if people would view them as disrespectful or not.

I mean, just because you don't see Hellenism as a religion, and therefore subject to all sorts of bastardization isn't at all how I see it. For me, the gods are living, viable beings. So for me, it would be just as uncomfortable to see someone RPing the Apollon as a modern-day doctor, for example, as it would be to see someone RPing Jesus as a leader of a bunch of super-powered teens fighting for truth, love,and justice in New York.

But. Again, as I mentioned before, it doesn't bother me as much to see something like Dogma, which at its core was trying to dispel some of the incorrect beliefs and hubris we have wen it comes to our own religiousness... If that makes sense. Kind of like you were getting at in your first post by mentioning that it depended on the context.

I mean the premise of the Percy Jackson books revolves around the children of the gods going on adventures. My point was with Christianity there is not direct correlation to a demi-god outside of the examples I listed.

Also I have roleplayed several times with someone who worships the Egyptian Gods. They use elements of their religion in their own roleplays often and more-over we did a roleplay involving superheroes that was set in the "Ancient World" At no point did they indicate that they thought that characters using elements of their religion or roleplays using elements of their religion were in any way blasphemous.

So while I'm sure there are some people who would find offense there are people who won't care. Same with Christianity or really other hot topic.

Which is why I said in the beginning if someone brings up an issue than yes you should respect their boundaries ( about everything not just religion ) but by the same token you can't push your own limitations onto others. If people want to make a roleplay where the Christian God is reincarnated as a High School Girl and has to go around gathering Saint and Dodging the Devil to prevent the Apocalypse - hey as long as they are following the rules and not being assholes to you or anyone else I say let them go for it.

If it's not your cup of tea that's fine. But that doesn't mean other people should be made to feel ashamed if it's theres.

I have this example with power-imbalance relationships. I find them to be disturbing and distasteful on a deeply personal level. I will flat out refuse to roleplay them ( and I state so every time I start a roleplay ) Furthermore any time I see them in a roleplay it makes me uncomfortable.

But would I go around calling that out or saying that it's an objectively bad style of roleplay? No. Because personally it's not my business how other people choose to enjoy themselves or the kind of stories they write. As long as they follow the terms of this site and they don't force me to take part in something I'm not comfortable with I say live and let live. They're having fun so who am I to judge them?

 

[CastoffCaptain]

I mean the premise of the Percy Jackson books revolves around the children of the gods going on adventures. My point was with Christianity there is not direct correlation to a demi-god outside of the examples I listed.

Also I have roleplayed several times with someone who worships the Egyptian Gods. They use elements of their religion in their own roleplays often and more-over we did a roleplay involving superheroes that was set in the "Ancient World" At no point did they indicate that they thought that characters using elements of their religion or roleplays using elements of their religion were in any way blasphemous.

So while I'm sure there are some people who would find offense there are people who won't care. Same with Christianity or really other hot topic.

Which is why I said in the beginning if someone brings up an issue than yes you should respect their boundaries ( about everything not just religion ) but by the same token you can't push your own limitations onto others. If people want to make a roleplay where the Christian God is reincarnated as a High School Girl and has to go around gathering Saint and Dodging the Devil to prevent the Apocalypse - hey as long as they are following the rules and not being assholes to you or anyone else I say let them go for it.

If it's not your cup of tea that's fine. But that doesn't mean other people should be made to feel ashamed if it's theres.

I have this example with power-imbalance relationships. I find them to be disturbing and distasteful on a deeply personal level. I will flat out refuse to roleplay them ( and I state so every time I start a roleplay ) Furthermore any time I see them in a roleplay it makes me uncomfortable.

But would I go around calling that out or saying that it's an objectively bad style of roleplay? No. Because personally it's not my business how other people choose to enjoy themselves or the kind of stories they write. As long as they follow the terms of this site and they don't force me to take part in something I'm not comfortable with I say live and let live. They're having fun so who am I to judge them?

I mean the premise of the Percy Jackson books revolves around the children of the gods going on adventures. My point was with Christianity there is not direct correlation to a demi-god outside of the examples I listed.

Also I have roleplayed several times with someone who worships the Egyptian Gods. They use elements of their religion in their own roleplays often and more-over we did a roleplay involving superheroes that was set in the "Ancient World" At no point did they indicate that they thought that characters using elements of their religion or roleplays using elements of their religion were in any way blasphemous.

So while I'm sure there are some people who would find offense there are people who won't care. Same with Christianity or really other hot topic.

Which is why I said in the beginning if someone brings up an issue than yes you should respect their boundaries ( about everything not just religion ) but by the same token you can't push your own limitations onto others. If people want to make a roleplay where the Christian God is reincarnated as a High School Girl and has to go around gathering Saint and Dodging the Devil to prevent the Apocalypse - hey as long as they are following the rules and not being assholes to you or anyone else I say let them go for it.

If it's not your cup of tea that's fine. But that doesn't mean other people should be made to feel ashamed if it's theres.

I have this example with power-imbalance relationships. I find them to be disturbing and distasteful on a deeply personal level. I will flat out refuse to roleplay them ( and I state so every time I start a roleplay ) Furthermore any time I see them in a roleplay it makes me uncomfortable.

But would I go around calling that out or saying that it's an objectively bad style of roleplay? No. Because personally it's not my business how other people choose to enjoy themselves or the kind of stories they write. As long as they follow the terms of this site and they don't force me to take part in something I'm not comfortable with I say live and let live. They're having fun so who am I to judge them?

And being able to get to understanding another point of view is why I posed the argument, so I'm glad you responded-- even though you're not Pagan.

And I'm with you about the point you made-- shaming shouldn't come into it (including not making someone feel ashamed for being offended by someone RPing the gods they worship), but understanding should.

Also, like I said before, some things I don't find offensive. And to clear things up, I don't view a Percy Jackson RP about fictional children of those gods to be the same thing as an RP about the gods themselves. Does that make sense? I'm rushing a post here at work, so it might not come across as clearly as I hoped.

 

[rae2nerdy]

And being able to get to understanding another point of view is why I posed the argument, so I'm glad you responded-- even though you're not Pagan.

And I'm with you about the point you made-- shaming shouldn't come into it (including not making someone feel ashamed for being offended by someone RPing the gods they worship), but understanding should.

Also, like I said before, some things I don't find offensive. And to clear things up, I don't view a Percy Jackson RP about fictional children of those gods to be the same thing as an RP about the gods themselves. Does that make sense? I'm rushing a post here at work, so it might not come across as clearly as I hoped.

And I'm not shaming you for your opinion. I was just saying that it might only be your personal opinion in which case it's not really up to other people to accomodate it that aren't directly tied to you. Like if people roleplay something we find objectionable that's fine, as long as they aren't forcing us to take part in whatever the objectionable thing is as well.

You see that a lot with Christians on this site actually. I've seen cases in threads where people specifically requested that there is not mention of their religion in a discussion or a roleplay. Which is fine. If you don't want to talk about something you shouldn't be made to.

But by the same token that doesn't mean that no on ever can take part in that topic. Just that they should respect your opinion if you voice it.

 

[CastoffCaptain]

And I'm not shaming you for your opinion. I was just saying that it might only be your personal opinion in which case it's not really up to other people to accomodate it that aren't directly tied to you. Like if people roleplay something we find objectionable that's fine, as long as they aren't forcing us to take part in whatever the objectionable thing is as well.

You see that a lot with Christians on this site actually. I've seen cases in threads where people specifically requested that there is not mention of their religion in a discussion or a roleplay. Which is fine. If you don't want to talk about something you shouldn't be made to.

But by the same token that doesn't mean that no on ever can take part in that topic. Just that they should respect your opinion if you voice it.

To be honest, I wish there were a way to respect everyone's opinions.

What you said about asking/talking about it beforehand is of course the easiest, smartest way to go about it. Everyone has a different opinion, and even and especially if someone else has a different one, 96.3% of the time, they're valid.

Thanks for coming at it from your point of view!

 

[MechanicalHeart]

But I know tons of Pagans. And some would disagree with you, I think. And there are plenty of uptight non-Judeo gods. The Apollon, f'ex. Sehkmet. Epona.

It's not the gods who are the uptight ones. It's their followers.

 

[Ranix Aurus]

I think the simplest way to view it in terms of roleplaying and fiction in general is to remember that this all fiction. This is not textbook fact everyone agreed upon here. This is a suspension of disbelief. Fictional plot. Fictional characters. Fictional world. A "what if" version of our world.

In this term, anything portrayed in the media does not reflect our reality in any way. So if we want to portray a machine gun-wielding Gandhi leading India to world supremacy through maximum violence, then it is not and never will reflect the real Gandhi, who is a supreme envoy of peace.

Same with gods and mythologies and such. Everything are fictional. There should be no limitation to the story creator to adhere to real-world portrayal (unless they insist it's "based on facts!" or "totally real, guys!"). The Percy Jackson story is like that too. It portrays the gods of THAT world. Their earth. There's nothing to do with our earth at all.

If we're viewing fictional world as a separate dimension of reality, and critique their gods as "fake" or "untrue", and use ours as the "real and only" one, won't that make us the blasphemous ones?

Just a different perspective.

 

[ReadingTheRunes]

I am pagan and personally I do not find it disrespectful. Like anything, all that I would ask if rping this is to be true to the religion that is being rped and research a little to understand. Therefore respecting said religion.

CastoffCaptain

 

[Birdsie]

I never understood theistic people when it comes to being mad about religious figures in RP.

Please, do not mistake the statement above for trying to disrespect people that believe. I respect anyone who has a different view on life and afterlife than me, but I myself am atheist.
What I am trying to say is that a person of the Christian belief finding "Jesus in a RP offensive," is absolute, ridiculous and utter nonsense.

Think I'm inconsiderate? Well, read the scenario below:

"All of the David Bowie fans were angry because someone put David Bowie's backstory, appearance, personality, name, and information for their character sheet in a roleplay. And the fans were mad because they liked David Bowie for what he did before he died."

Okay, so now that you read it. Replace all "David Bowie" with: "Jesus Christ" and all "fans" with "believers"

Now, someone might argue: "Well, yeah, but you know. Jesus Christ is kind of a holy figure and I worship him and stuff. And he's holy to me."

Well, I will argue back: "Yeah, I know, but not to absolutely everyone else. I know it upsets you, but people worshiped Nike as a Goddess over 2000 years ago, some of them still do. Now? Nike is a shoe brand. Just wait 2000 years and you'll see a toothpaste called "Yahweh," followed by a series of toothbrushes called "Jesus" and shampoo called "Sweet Mary," then we'll talk about it upsetting you. If you have a serious problem with it, then stop reading someone insulting your deity and do not pay it any attention." **

** No offense was meant to any members of any religion. I was just trying to get a point across with an example that could be seen as offensive by some. I beg of you to keep an open mind and not lynch me, okay? I u.

As for the real discussion, I think that as long as the story is not a deliberate mockery of any figure, real, supposed, or otherwise, said figure should be allowed within said story.

IE:

If I made a story where Jesus Christ goes around saving people, but it strays from the Bible when Jesus gets a sword and shield, walks down to hell and beat's Satan's ass? I think that's fine, perhaps arguable, but still doesn't mock Jesus or his image in any way. To be fair: He did beat Satan in a symbolic way in the Bible.
If I made a story where Jesus Christ goes on a rampage and kills people? That's not fine.
If I made a story where a little chibi Jesus slips on a banana peel and lands on his butt next to God, who says: "Awww, who's a cute little messiah?" in a really cutesy voice? That's... That's hilarious, but not fine for the most part.

ALSO: This post applies for any religion. And again: I do not mean to be brash, or inconsiderate. If it seems like I was, please, excuse me. I do apologize, but I am just trying to be rational and logical.

 

[Birdsie]

I mean the premise of the Percy Jackson books revolves around the children of the gods going on adventures. My point was with Christianity there is not direct correlation to a demi-god outside of the examples I listed.

To be completely technical, Jesus Christ is, technically, a Demigod.

He is a/the "son of (a) God."

 

[rae2nerdy]

To be completely technical, Jesus Christ is, technically, a Demigod.

He is a/the "son of (a) God."

I meant demi-god in the sense that it is used in Greek Mythology. Human child of God X + Human Y. Who has epic adventures and does XYZ to find McGuffin ABC for the purpose of the plot.

Again using the Percy Jackson series - they are essentially wizards or superheroes. Humans with powers of XXX because they happen to be related to a God.

Jesus would be more like a God given human form - like the Avatar in away. He's human because that is the form that was needed to fulfill a specific purpose not necessarily because of basic biology.

Not to say you couldn't make a roleplay using Jesus as essentially another demi-god. But the way the mythology around him is constructed is slightly different.

Demi-Gods are meant to be heroes more than religious heroes. Jesus is meant to be a religious figure not necessarily a hero. So to me for the sake of a roleplay ( demigod = greco-roman demigod or the like )

 

[Birdsie]

I meant demi-god in the sense that it is used in Greek Mythology. Human child of God X + Human Y. Who has epic adventures and does XYZ to find McGuffin ABC for the purpose of the plot.

Again using the Percy Jackson series - they are essentially wizards or superheroes. Humans with powers of XXX because they happen to be related to a God.

Jesus would be more like a God given human form - like the Avatar in away. He's human because that is the form that was needed to fulfill a specific purpose not necessarily because of basic biology.

I always found it funny, how hilariously the concept of (Christian) God being Omnipotent yet needing a human vessel that he would call son to accomplish basic tasks in a limited group of people, that would only be put through the filter of free will, all to filter out the people who will get to Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory depending on said free will, despite God being Omnipotent and thus having already chosen where they go, far prior to the creation of said person on the axis of space and time. Again, no offense. Everyone should be allowed to choose what they believe in.

But enough of philosophical theology.

Who you are talking about is Jesus after the Holy Spirit was bestowed unto him. And true, it is much like Jesus being in an avatar state, but that was only after one point of his life. Up until that point, he was not superhuman, at least, and again: tech-ni-cally.

And regardless, Jesus fits the bill for the literal definition of the word "demigod."