Chitchat "Nice Criticism"

[Emmi]

This is just my opinion, but I feel as though "nice criticism" isn't really.. beneficial. Whether you create a piece of artwork, or song, or something creative, there will be people who criticize it. However, most people just tend to say "that's real nice" or "fantastic!" But, let me as you a question, was it? I've seen plenty of shitty artworks and such, but people don't really improve from "nice criticism". If you tell them what you think about the artwork or something creative, ex. "the anatomy is all wrong, you should try to research more" or "the song really hurts my ears.. maybe you should try tuning it down a little". With these comments, they can cover their mistakes and learn from it. As an artist, I remember people would say "that's nice!" or "good job!" but never really criticize my artwork. Over the years, I looked back at my artwork, and dear lord, they were terrible. Horrendous. And, a thought echoed my head: "Why didn't they criticize it? I would've improved sooner." "Nice criticism" is usually used to "protect feelings", and I find this lame. They'll never get better this way, or take a long ass time to do so. If they can't handle criticism, maybe showing their creative work to people isn't really for them.

So, what do you guys think about "nice criticism"? I would love to look at some of your opinions.

 

[myfanwy]

imo, you have to use a mix of both "nice" and "mean" criticism.

for example: "this was a really nice read, however, i think you have to work on your word usage in a few places."

or

"i really like the way you develop your characters but the grammar and punctuation threw me off a bit. perhaps you should work on that and you'd be a standout writer."

and from that point on, it's up to the writer to take that advice, or criticism. they may focus on only the positive part of it and take the rest as a personal attack, but that would only prove that they aren't mature enough to handle actual hard hitting critique. that's why i like to use a mix, to make my actual criticism seem like less of a harsh blow or personal attack to the writer by focusing on what they did well.

i've also found that people use criticism as a disguise for just being an asshole.

 

[Emmi]

imo, you have to use a mix of both "nice" and "mean" criticism.

for example: "this was a really nice read, however, i think you have to work on your word usage in a few places."

or

"i really like the way you develop your characters but the grammar and punctuation threw me off a bit. perhaps you should work on that and you'd be a standout writer."

and from that point on, it's up to the writer to take that advice, or criticism. they may focus on only the positive part of it and take the rest as a personal attack, but that would only prove that they aren't mature enough to handle actual hard hitting critique. that's why i like to use a mix, to make my actual criticism seem like less of a harsh blow or personal attack to the writer by focusing on what they did well.

i've also found that people use criticism as a disguise for just being an asshole.

tru, very tru

 

[Idea]

Well, there is one big obstacle to proper criticism, and that is the notion that the quality of art is subjective. The idea that the quality of art is connected with one's appreciation of that art and/or it's elements. Once that's accepted, you eliminate any notion of criticism, since if feelings are what matters, then certainly nobody is in a place to say "this is bad" or "this is good".

In my personal opinion, this notion is wrong and harmful. If you hurt your foot that morning, your mood will be worse and so will be your appreciation of whatever media you consume in that day, yet the media itself didn't change because you hurt your foot, only your feelings. In other words, something outside of the thing whose quality is being measured affected your acessment of it's quality without altering what is being acessed. The only logical conclusion to this is that said assecement is wrong or at least unfounded.

The way I see it, things like this "nice criticism" you speak of, are either people who simply want to show their appreciation (which is fine) or people who want to offer feedback but can't bring themselves to point out what flaws they see, since they don't see those as universal constants or because they expect the artist to answer to their criticism by dismissing it.

 

[hologram]

"Nice criticism" meaning like... compliments? I'm really not trying to be dismissive here but I can't figure out how else to interpret the phrase.

It sounds like there's a bit of an in built assumption going on here in the example you chose. 'People didn't criticize my art even though it was bad and deserving of criticism' kind of assumes that the people that gave you compliments on the artwork actually believed that your artwork needed heavy criticism in the first place, or that they were able to properly articulate these criticisms if they existed. When I look at this example from my perspective I see genuine compliments, which are just as important as constructive criticism. Constructive being the key word here. I feel there's a line between constructive criticism and needless negativity that a lot of people just blow right over without any sort of sensitivity to the situation.

I think it's important to keep in mind that not everyone is equipped to give proper criticism, and those that are able to do so may not be willing.

Also, a lot of folks might not be in their creative field because they want to improve themselves, others may be simply unable to improve themselves any further. These people have as much of a right to practice their art or craft as anyone else. Protecting feelings, as you call it, is often just common courtesy and respect for the other person who chooses to show their creative work to the public. Creative works are often intensely personal things, and unwanted criticism can be very damaging.

I think what I'm trying to say here is compliments are just as valuable as constructive criticism, but with constructive criticism it's often important to make sure the artist wants that sort of feedback in the first place.

Personally, I'm the sort of person who thrives on compliments rather than criticism. If someone compliments my RP writing I feel more confident, and that confidence often manifests by me tackling more advanced topics or becoming more experimental with my roleplay. People are complicated and react to compliments and criticism in different ways. I definitely acknowledge others thrive on criticism.

 

[Idea]

"Nice criticism" meaning like... compliments? I'm really not trying to be dismissive here but I can't figure out how else to interpret the phrase.

It sounds like there's a bit of an in built assumption going on here in the example you chose. 'People didn't criticize my art even though it was bad and deserving of criticism' kind of assumes that the people that gave you compliments on the artwork actually believed that your artwork needed heavy criticism in the first place, or that they were able to properly articulate these criticisms if they existed. When I look at this example from my perspective I see genuine compliments, which are just as important as constructive criticism. Constructive being the key word here. I feel there's a line between constructive criticism and needless negativity that a lot of people just blow right over without any sort of sensitivity to the situation.

I think it's important to keep in mind that not everyone is equipped to give proper criticism, and those that are able to do so may not be willing.

Also, a lot of folks might not be in their creative field because they want to improve themselves, others may be simply unable to improve themselves any further. These people have as much of a right to practice their art or craft as anyone else. Protecting feelings, as you call it, is often just common courtesy and respect for the other person who chooses to show their creative work to the public. Creative works are often intensely personal things, and unwanted criticism can be very damaging.

I think what I'm trying to say here is compliments are just as valuable as constructive criticism, but with constructive criticism it's often important to make sure the artist wants that sort of feedback in the first place.

Personally, I'm the sort of person who thrives on compliments rather than criticism. If someone compliments my RP writing I feel more confident, and that confidence often manifests by me tackling more advanced topics or becoming more experimental with my roleplay. People are complicated and react to compliments and criticism in different ways. I definitely acknowledge others thrive on criticism.

I think the issue that's being discussed here isn't someone randomly giving a compliment. I think (and do correct me if I'm wrong Emmi ) it adresses specifically an artists that is asking for feedback on their work.

In those situations it's best not to write anything at all than to write something blindly positive AND simple like that. I guess you can think of it as the polar opposite of those people that just got to a comment section to bash the work instead of oferring constructive criticism. Specifically the harm is that the artist is looking to improve themselves, yet people aren't just ignoring the request, they will appear to be making a point of showing it they couldn't face the artwork seriously or if they did, then they purposely avoided sharing what the artists specifically asked them to share, their feedback.

 

[Suum]

Criticism is about disapproval and judgement, so there really isn't such a thing as nice criticism. If it's complimentary, it's more akin to feedback or testimonial than it is criticism. Beyond that I'd just like to clarify that when you're looking for criticism which can help you improve (constructive criticism) then you are absolutely wasting your time asking random friends or people. Constructive criticism has to come from people in a position of authority/experience for it to be remotely constructive, which is why people get drowned in what you dub "nice criticism". You can't ask your friend to suddenly assume the personality and experience of a professional art critic. Ask the right people and get the right responses. Ask the wrong people and get the wrong responses.

It's also a harsh truth but the vast majority of your friends or random people will have next to no interest in your work, or at least limited enough interest that they wouldn't care to scrutinise beyond a thumbs up or thumbs down, and that's even if they have the experience and authority to make such a judgement call. These people are also traditionally more focused on keeping you happy than anything, which is counterintuitive to criticism.

 

[The_Omega_Effect]

I'm not sure about art, but if I want to create something and I am determined to do so, then actual criticism telling me exactly where I went wrong would help me thousands of more times than one that just tells me I did a nice job without even telling me how I did well. And if the criticism gets to the point where I am discouraged to continue, then I never truly wanted to do this thing in the first place.