Other Minimum post lengths

[elextrified]

i honestly seek out roleplays that have the minimum post length rule
just a personal opinion, but i feel like i'm just going to be wasting my time if i roleplay with someone who can't even get out a solid five sentences
i want to have enough not only respond to in general, but enough that i won't be limited in what i can actually do

not that a post length requirement completely safeguards against posts that are hard to respond to and limit options, but it definitely helps idk

 

[Killigrew]

(even though salinger was a whiny bitch, especially in catcher in the rye, his character development was pretty good). "flowery" writers do well with scenery and some character development.

Honestly, I'm kind of excited that the debate has evolved from whether it's wise to require a minimal post length to whether concise or flowery writing is a better way to tell a story. That is an age-old debate, from Hemmingway and Faulkner to CS Lewis and Tolkien, all the way back to the Pearl poet and Chaucer.
While I personally take a middle ground (be concise or flowery, both are fun and cool, just don't overdo either, a very context-driven approach), it's been a ferocious debate from the beginning. ...Maybe I'm more of a moderate-concise writer?


"Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don’t know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use."
Ernest Hemingway

It's true; concision and alliteration were the bastions of English, the traditional tell-all of good storytelling. Since English is far more of an oral language than most "1st world" languages today, in my (informed? I'm pretty settled that my opinion is right) opinion it most naturally works well with concision (word choice is the author's best skill).

"Don’t use words too big for the subject. Don’t say ‘infinitely’ when you mean ‘very’; otherwise you’ll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite."
C.S. Lewis

"Many a poem is marred by a superfluous word."
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

Words are like leaves; and where they most abound, Much fruit of sense beneath is rarely found.
Alexander Pope

“If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.”
George Orwell

The argument for concision that stands on the thoughts and minds of these great writers comes down to two main points; it's simply better and it's more understandable. Have you ever heard a great author defend flowery language? Maybe I just haven't been exposed to it while I was studying English.

 

[Bone2pick]

If Faulkner is considered a flowery writer, then I'm a staunch supporter of flowery writing.

 

[Killigrew]

If Faulkner is considered a flowery writer, then I'm a staunch supporter of flowery writing.

Oh, he very much is.

Fifty Years of Hemingway Criticism
That's probably the best link on it, but if you searched in google for "faulkner flowery language," you'd surely find more.

 

[Bone2pick]

And what should I conclude from that?

 

[Killigrew]

I find it fascinating that Faulkner's whole purpose in flowery language is so that he will not be fully understood, while Hemmingway's purpose in concise language is so that he will be understood.

 

[Bone2pick]

Faulkner admitted this?

 

[myfanwy]

Have you ever heard a great author defend flowery language

i'm far too tired to respond accordingly, but my tl; dr version of my response is this:

those great authors have all passed away. times are changing and people like their own style.

let people do what they wanna do, even if it means using flowery language. that's the main point of all of this: if you yourself don't like doing this and others do, why would you try to force your viewpoint and try to make people change the way they write?

actually, in defense of flowery language: hp lovecraft used what would qualify as flowery to describe the cosmic beings. he was underrated back in the day, his works unappreciated, and now he's seen as one of the best horror writers.

if a certain style isn't your taste, don't try to write it or rp with someone who uses it?

one mans trash is another mans treasure

 

[I3ookI7ragon]

TLR rant (conclusion at bottom)

I'm kinda scared to read past page three of this... I put three paragraphs for my minimum. Because that is what I saw all the time at numerous different RP sites, I can make IDLE rp "walks in room and interacts with OOC people" to be three paragraphs. I LOVE DETAIL. LOVE IT. If it is even a paragraph, I'm sad. Sure you guys can have fun with your two liner replies, your paragraph replies, what have you. but omg, I feel the need to strangle people when i get short replies even in fighting! I see short response RP's VERY difficult to get into. I AM NOT IN YOUR HEAD! I cannot see what you are imagining for your character. I need specifics, was your hair in your face? was there wind? was it silent? were your clothes uncomfy? what are you thinking? what is your expression? what are you doing? what are your fidgets? everyone fidgets. I have never once met someone who doesn't yet I rarely see them in shorter rps. unless its 'flips hair, twirls hair, bites lip' please something more original.
I see a lot of fighting RP's that just go hack and slash... like, wtf. Okay sure you like them. I however do not. I need those paragraphs. Even for what my character is thinking. Why did I go in for this move? Was I making a jab to confuse him, or was I going to inflict? Why am I /really/ fighting this person? do we have a past? There is far too much one can put in for detailed fighting RP's. IF one likes that sort of thing. I do. So why should I try to tell someone, "oph no biggy on post length" and then feel a major waste of life? I am RPing for a reason for myself. Not you guys. maybe that makes me extremely selfish (i mean heck I am), but bigger the better. I can handle filler better than I can handle "swipes feet from under them" I WOULD DIE. DIE I TELL YOU. not really, I like life. even on the worst of days. Im just dramatic.
I'm rather at a loss why this is even an 'issue', there are those who want big and those who want small. if you don't want big, kindly scoot your boot out and don't come back until you do? If you don't want small, kindly scoot your boot until you want a short minute rp?
Its also a matter of learning, I would think. Some people, like myself, cannot retain short replies. I cannot get into an RP for the few minutes it takes for a paragraph reply. I like to set it out, like one may right a book. I get into it, I pour every fiber of my character into it. i write, because I like to read. I really don't like to have short chit chats, I do not really like to talk at all. I want character, I want to talk about the story, the world, the back ground to writing.
Sure there will be filler, but I would think, by at least those that i have read myself. even filler would help. and what is filler, even? opinionated. ooooopinionaaaated. I know there is massive argument to otherwise. BUT I LIKE WORDS. I love seeing words, it can be the same sentence written in different ways with different verbiage and what not over and over again for three paragraphs. But I like words... so words? I want an RP partner to pretty much write a book with me. a high fantasy type build, without the actual genre. you wanna tell me a plot and say go? Uh... haha haha.. no thank you. I want, no I need plans.
I have to say if you read more anime/graphic novels and watch tv, a lot of that really... dims out on everything else when a fight occurs, but there is noise and action all around you. unless you just constantly have a character that 'blacks out' when fighting.
I find that a lot of the big RP's I knew growing up, they either really held onto others that write a lot or they got out of RP and into writing books, because they did't have time for short replies.
It's two totally different RP styles, I like lots and lots of writing. i'd really rather fill, than nothing. and there are those that only want short replies, no one is better than the other except to the one individual who is looking for like minded writers.
I also have to say that when i come across RP's on here which have requirements, it's those that DO NOT follow the requirements that ruin it. No picture, no description, no character sheets, they just join in with a, "sits on bench, Hi my name is so and so." takes out wand and twirls it between fingers." right in between people who have done 3+ paragraphs. and again later, with another person, and then they get upset that no one is interacting with them. or gods forbid the one liner mad at the other one liners for one lining. So then the rp starts dying off because the big boys are getting bored of baby sitting. sure it happens in numerous ways. i just recently came here and have spent all my life on chat based games with like a 240 character max or something like that. its rare to see anyone using only one block, unless its "family/Idle Rp" which still can easily hit past the amount. Like entire chat page for one characters post. easy. They are smaller communities, but it makes it easier to weed out those who don't want that sort of RP. Why belittle those who want long RP's in trying to say that 'they never last and thats fact'? Um cause it isn't it really isn't. i don't know what is seen around here, but it's a biiiig world out there. as awesome as this site is, it is not the only one in existence. Some relax by writing long ass posts. some relax by short ones. Don't want to put the effort, cool. We do. We just don't want one liners wasting our time. Just as some feel filler is a waste of time.
And I am sure, since it is a rather social site, even those Big replied rps that die, someone is finding an RP partner. "Yo, I like your writing you can write my length. be my best friend for life, maybe? maybe? please .-."

in conclusion, because this is a major rant

Plus One for the Three Plus Paragraphs Minimum (6-12 I have hit that with only one other person, and sadly we are not friends anymore, but it has happened.)
Opinions are opinions and no one should be forced to think like someone else.
If you need your 'safe space' from the scary world of lots of writing... you're in the wrong place.

edit: finished reading this thread and regret it.
I'm glad Idea left, because I may have been more interested in continuing if they had stayed. It really hurts to see so many people shouting "FACT FACT FACT" when they live in such a small world. :/ I mean yikes guys, your opinion is your damn opinion. If you don't want long posts? STAY THE F OUT. If you don't like short posts STAY THE F OUT.

 

[Whisker]

i'm far too tired to respond accordingly, but my tl; dr version of my response is this:

those great authors have all passed away. times are changing and people like their own style.

let people do what they wanna do, even if it means using flowery language. that's the main point of all of this: if you yourself don't like doing this and others do, why would you try to force your viewpoint and try to make people change the way they write?

actually, in defense of flowery language: hp lovecraft used what would qualify as flowery to describe the cosmic beings. he was underrated back in the day, his works unappreciated, and now he's seen as one of the best horror writers.

if a certain style isn't your taste, don't try to write it or rp with someone who uses it?

one mans trash is another mans treasure

The point Hunter is trying to make is in line with the OP's original intention of making this thread.

In the week or so that I've been here, I've noticed something that seems to be more common than I remember from my school days of RPing, whether that's due to time or place I can't say. That something is minimum post lengths, and I'm actually curious what people's thoughts are about that particular, I guess house rule is the best term?
Personally, I understand no one likes to play with someone who's all *I go to the thing* and doesn't give you anything to work with in a reply. However, I also don't like to feel obligated to try and stretch out interactions that would otherwise be quick and snappy. Things like *I drop into a crouch an attempt to sweep my opponent's legs out from under them* or *I immediately stop, turn, and grab you by the shoulders. Eyes wide with shock, I ask, "are you sure about that? Absolutely certain?"*

The fact of the matter is that too many people in the RP community believe arbitrary measures of skill such as post length and word count are more important than the writer’s ability to weave an immersive story. I have personally written posts that are upwards of 50 paragraphs and as few as two or three sentences. My beef isn’t with Detailed RPs and those who enjoy writing long posts – it’s when they hop on the train that longer is always better.

That those who write short responses are inferior.

That shorter responses must reflect a lack of effort or creativity on the part of the writer even if the post contains all the necessary parts of a quality response (reaction and driving action of the plot).

It’s when they don’t consider that the idea they’re trying to get across could be negatively impacted by too much detail. (Note: Tone, pacing, characterization can be carried by short snappy responses – particularly in fights or situations where things are fast and confused – just as well as long ones.)

Say what you want about it boiling down to “personal preference”, but don’t expect to be free from criticism about it’s negative aspects either.

 

[myfanwy]

Say what you want about it boiling down to “personal preference”, but don’t expect to be free from criticism about it’s negative aspects either.

again, it's far too late at night and i'm a little tilted, so i'm going to simplify my response.

it's not up to anyone else but the role players in a role play and the agreed upon length that THEY consider is enough to he the point across and the story moving.

this is going to sound condescending and i admit it, however, it seems childish to me that people are complaining about other people wanting a certain amount of paragraphs as a response. personally for me, if i write something nice and the other person responds quickly and with only a handful of sentences, i'm going to think that they're not interested.

let people do what makes them happy. it is not a new concept not is it a difficult one.

 

[Whisker]

again, it's far too late at night and i'm a little tilted, so i'm going to simplify my response.

it's not up to anyone else but the role players in a role play and the agreed upon length that THEY consider is enough to he the point across and the story moving.

this is going to sound condescending and i admit it, however, it seems childish to me that people are complaining about other people wanting a certain amount of paragraphs as a response. personally for me, if i write something nice and the other person responds quickly and with only a handful of sentences, i'm going to think that they're not interested.

let people do what makes them happy. it is not a new concept not is it a difficult one.

Again, the purpose of the thread is to express thoughts on minimum posting limits both negative and positive.

I already know that it’s up to the people in the RP what those limits are. I am not refuting that.

I am stating a personal opinion I have gathered after twelve years of roleplay that some aspects of having minimum posting requirements are stifling to creativity and inherently harmful to the interactive nature of RP. I am NOT telling people what to do with their roleplays, or complaining that some people want longer or shorter responses more than addressing a trend with them I find distasteful.

EDIT: If you look on the first page, I have even said as much.

 

[Tabby]

personal objective opinion

Heh.

Might wanna work on your word choice a bit.

 

[Whisker]

Heh.

Might wanna work on your word choice a bit.

Could be right. I'll adjust it.

 

[Uncultured]

To run a successful RP of high detail, (detail being lore, story complexity & character depth not just word volume) one must have a roster of good writers.

Length requirements do not lead to a roster of good writers. We all know this. Anyone who has been in one RP with a length requirement knows this.

So using it as a way to filter out bad writers is a mistake.

Instead ask for a writing sample to determine if a writer is good or not. Give them some kind of prompt, perhaps a section on the CS where they must write a three paragraph + mini story with their character.

Then, once their skill has been assessed, allow them the creative leeway to write in the way that they see fit. If you can't trust your roster to post in a way that's appropriate, then why would you trust them with your story?

If they're not posting in a way that's appropriate, talk with them.

"Appropriate" is subjective, but generally it's a common sense thing. Is the person omitting important details? Are they neglecting things that they should be paying attention to? Just going off of post length is extremely lazy.

For example.

Poster #1 writes an eight sentence post with the precision of a scalpel. Not an empty word to be found. The story is driven forward effectively and every piece of information that needed to be conveyed was conveyed. Perhaps observations are lacking but for the most part the post is structurally solid and well written.

Poster #2 writes forty sentences. In the forty are redundant and/or obvious observations, sidetracked trains of thought, perhaps a flashback or some homage to a past post or backstory. The writing is good, and yes, the plot is moved forward to some degree, but after reading the forty sentences by Poster #2, the story has moved forward less than with the post by Poster #1.

Is Poster #2 a bad writer for this? Maybe, maybe not. Is Poster #1 a world class author? No, they might be terrible, but in this instance the story was advanced more by the concise post of P1.

If a length quota is used here, P1 might get a warning or a boot and P2 will not, even if the story was advanced better in less time by P1. This example can be made more extreme if you up the skill of the concise poster and drop the skill of the lengthy poster. If those 40 sentences by P2 are written at a 10th grade level and the 8 sentences by P1 are world class, then how is it fair to kick or warn P1 and not bat an eye at P2 who just dropped a 6 paragraph shit on the RP?

The scale of these RPs is almost always under 15 people, using a one size fits all approach isn't needed. One size fits all is done when the base of people is too large to effectively regulate. So if you have a RP with 50 people, then fine, do quotas, because regulating every post will be a full time job. However if we're talking about a RP with 8 people posting once or twice a day, just read the damn thing and if it makes sense and is appropriate for the context, then allow it, if not then send a DM. At the end of the day people should be allowed to write however they feel is appropriate, if they're good enough to stick in your detailed, highbrow RP, then they should be good enough to determine what post length is appropriate.

Edit

I'm not even trying to shit on those of you that like to write long style. I'm naturally an over writer, like you guys. I've made a concerted effort to write less as I think there is value in minimalism. How I write now is like a sculptor, I start with a big block of marble and whittle it down. My first draft is always my longest, but even with that I tend to go on and on...

I mean, just look at how long my argument posts are. For me, four paragraph minimums are laughable, I can easily do that without sweating, but I think that we need to account for context where a multi-paragraph length is too much (action or dialogue). We also need to account for those who write short and to the point without sacrificing quality.

 

[Killigrew]

it's not up to anyone else but the role players in a role play and the agreed upon length that THEY consider is enough to he the point across and the story moving.

I'm glad Idea left, because I may have been more interested in continuing if they had stayed. It really hurts to see so many people shouting "FACT FACT FACT" when they live in such a small world. :/ I mean yikes guys, your opinion is your damn opinion. If you don't want long posts? STAY THE F OUT. If you don't like short posts STAY THE F OUT.

We've already tread past this territory on the first page.
My reply:

I don't think we have to be discussing minimum post lengths in those terms. For the most part, the conversation carried past the given 'right' a GM has to restrict or enforce upon his players a sleu of subjective laws and stepped into the territory of wisdom. Is it necessary, useful, and healthy for an RP to have minimum post lengths?

As for the other points people made, I'd respond but they're so general and most of them have already been answered.... It seems like we've already had the conversation about "Why do you hate details? I love details so stop telling me what to do" and then we (those of us on the side of context-driven detail instead) replied, "No, we're not saying you should change what you're doing, nor are we describing what you should do; we're critiquing minimal post lengths because we believe that short posts should be permitted. Post length is a quota, not a measure of skill, but it's paraded around like it's a measure of skill."

Honestly, that's a bit unkind. Thinking that if you're critiqued, it means you're somehow being commanded to change. I've got no authority; I'm just sharing my opinion and explaining how I reached it.... If you're going to be so hostile as to try and shut down the conversation, and not only that, but your hostility is based on a misinterpretation of what I've said, I really don't mind stepping away and not commenting on stuff.

 

[Whisker]

To run a successful RP of high detail, (detail being lore, story complexity & character depth not just word volume) one must have a roster of good writers.

Length requirements do not lead to a roster of good writers. We all know this. Anyone who has been in one RP with a length requirement knows this.

So using it as a way to filter out bad writers is a mistake.

Instead ask for a writing sample to determine if a writer is good or not. Give them some kind of prompt, perhaps a section on the CS where they must write a three paragraph + mini story with their character.

Then, once their skill has been assessed, allow them the creative leeway to write in the way that they see fit. If you can't trust your roster to post in a way that's appropriate, then why would you trust them with your story?

If they're not posting in a way that's appropriate, talk with them.

"Appropriate" is subjective, but generally it's a common sense thing. Is the person omitting important details? Are they neglecting things that they should be paying attention to? Just going off of post length is extremely lazy.

For example.

Poster #1 writes an eight sentence post with the precision of a scalpel. Not an empty word to be found. The story is driven forward effectively and every piece of information that needed to be conveyed was conveyed. Perhaps observations are lacking but for the most part the post is structurally solid and well written.

Poster #2 writes forty sentences. In the forty are redundant and/or obvious observations, sidetracked trains of thought, perhaps a flashback or some homage to a past post or backstory. The writing is good, and yes, the plot is moved forward to some degree, but after reading the forty sentences by Poster #2, the story has moved forward less than with the post by Poster #1.

Is Poster #2 a bad writer for this? Maybe, maybe not. Is Poster #1 a world class author? No, they might be terrible, but in this instance the story was advanced more by the concise post of P1.

If a length quota is used here, P1 might get a warning or a boot and P2 will not, even if the story was advanced better in less time by P1. This example can be made more extreme if you up the skill of the concise poster and drop the skill of the lengthy poster. If those 40 sentences by P2 are written at a 10th grade level and the 8 sentences by P1 are world class, then how is it fair to kick or warn P1 and not bat an eye at P2 who just dropped a 6 paragraph shit on the RP?

The scale of these RPs is almost always under 15 people, using a one size fits all approach isn't needed. One size fits all is done when the base of people is too large to effectively regulate. So if you have a RP with 50 people, then fine, do quotas, because regulating every post will be a full time job. However if we're talking about a RP with 8 people posting once or twice a day, just read the damn thing and if it makes sense and is appropriate for the context, then allow it, if not then send a DM. At the end of the day people should be allowed to write however they feel is appropriate, if they're good enough to stick in your detailed, highbrow RP, then they should be good enough to determine what post length is appropriate.

Edit

I'm not even trying to shit on those of you that like to write long style. I'm naturally an over writer, like you guys, who has made a concerted effort to write less. How I write now is like a sculptor, I start with a big block of marble and whittle it down. My first draft is always my longest, but even with that I tend to go on and on...

I mean, just look at how long my argument posts are. For me, four paragraph minimums are laughable, I can easily do that without sweating, but I think that we need to account for context where a multi-paragraph length is too much (action or dialogue). We also need to account for those who write short and to the point without sacrificing quality.

I agree with this for the most part. I have also recently made a commitment to write less – mostly because of awkward navigation with dialogue. If I wanted to interject something or respond to certain segments of my partner’s post directly, I’d have to snip them out, paste it in my post, and then respond. It always just ended up feeling clunky and off when all I really wanted to do was to have my character go through a normal conversation.

 

[Idea]

"Don’t use words too big for the subject. Don’t say ‘infinitely’ when you mean ‘very’; otherwise you’ll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite."
C.S. Lewis

I think this sentence is why I support flowery writing. Sure it's bad to just stuff in words that are bigger for the sake of it. But to reduce something to it's most basic elements eliminates all of the nuance. When I write about an action, it's not just about an action occurring, but how and why it occurred and what the meaning of it having occurred was.

 

[Bone2pick]

Post length is a quota, not a measure of skill, but it's paraded around like it's a measure of skill."

How do you explain the frequent posts from site members who admit that they struggle to write multiple paragraph RP entries?

 

[myfanwy]

i admitted i was being unkind but that's merely my viewpoint. if people are now arguing over a persons writing style and using cherry picked authors, then again, i find it childish.

consider this my exiting thought

 

[QuirkyAngel]

So using it as a way to filter out bad writers is a mistake.

No one said post length requirements were made to filter out bad writers. They were made to filter out players who cannot write a certain length. This does not equate bad writing as you said. There may be other reasons a gm might require a certain length.

If those 40 sentences by P2 are written at a 10th grade level and the 8 sentences by P1 are world class, then how is it fair to kick or warn P1 and not bat an eye at P2 who just dropped a 6 paragraph shit on the RP?

P1 did not follow the rules of the rp. Therefore it's fair. In fact, if P2 were the one to get the warning, they'd be the one to be just in saying 'it's not fair' because nowhere in the rules did the gm write, 'no bad writing'.

Honestly, I'm kind of excited that the debate has evolved from whether it's wise to require a minimal post length to whether concise or flowery writing is a better way to tell a story. That is an age-old debate, from Hemmingway and Faulkner to CS Lewis and Tolkien, all the way back to the Pearl poet and Chaucer.
While I personally take a middle ground (be concise or flowery, both are fun and cool, just don't overdo either, a very context-driven approach), it's been a ferocious debate from the beginning. ...Maybe I'm more of a moderate-concise writer?


"Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don’t know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use."
Ernest Hemingway

It's true; concision and alliteration were the bastions of English, the traditional tell-all of good storytelling. Since English is far more of an oral language than most "1st world" languages today, in my (informed? I'm pretty settled that my opinion is right) opinion it most naturally works well with concision (word choice is the author's best skill).

"Don’t use words too big for the subject. Don’t say ‘infinitely’ when you mean ‘very’; otherwise you’ll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite."
C.S. Lewis

"Many a poem is marred by a superfluous word."
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

Words are like leaves; and where they most abound, Much fruit of sense beneath is rarely found.
Alexander Pope

“If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.”
George Orwell

The argument for concision that stands on the thoughts and minds of these great writers comes down to two main points; it's simply better and it's more understandable. Have you ever heard a great author defend flowery language? Maybe I just haven't been exposed to it while I was studying English.

I can appreciate this. You're like my brother. He reads to understand too and wishes that certain authors, like Shakespere, would just get to the point^^When I was in my high-school, he was the one I gave my short stories to read because I didn't have much confidence when it came to posting my work. He was always my harshest critique, especially during my flowery moments. Comments like 'do her eyes really matter or something?' or 'the first 3 paragraphs nearly made me fall asleep' shaped how I write today.

I wouldn't call myself a terribly verbose writer of high diction and skill. However, I can also appreciate it when I read it. Flowery isn't just length. It's also word choice and flow. Is the purpose of your writing to get people to understand, or is it to capture the senses? Some people are just naturally verbose. They are well-read an have a way with words that are just...beautiful.

I think the mark of a good writer is one who knows their own voice. Who knows their audience and their purpose. A person who tries for grand words that they aren't familiar with will become painfully obvious in their writing. That's why most lit educators will tell you to stick to your skill level. English classes teach the basics of writing...which is writing to communicate. Therefore, simple, clear, and concise is always better. Once you move higher, writing becomes much more convoluted. You'll have the artistic writers and then those writing for speeches. Romance writing tends to be more flowery because their purpose is to catch their audience in the thrill of passion and emotion, whereas action stories are just there to tell the story.

Rps are the same. Some rps are more focused on character development and don't care as much about pacing as digging into the characters, seeing their reactions, capturing the moment, etc. Some are more focused on the story- about getting from point A to point B without stopping to smell the roses. I'm probably more of the former than the latter, though don't quote me on that, as I tend to be whimsical when it comes to the rps I join =P

One thing I will say though is that simple isn't always clearer.

I hate dogs.

I hate dogs because they bark loudly. They scare me. They also smell. Whenever I see I dog, I often think it's diseased-ridden or has rabies. That's what's what my mother told me when I asked her once. She told me a dog smells because it is diseased-ridden and has rabies.

Which one made things clearer, promotes more understanding? For me, it's the second one. It has more detail.

 

[rae2nerdy]

So maybe not effort then =P, but the person who churned out more paragraphs still did more work. Work is a quantifiable output (remembering my Physics class). Say players A and B were both given a single task - to clean their room for example. Both rooms were the same size and the same level of mess. Player A finished quickly. Player B struggled to finish their room (because let's be honest, some people are a natural with getting things done and some people struggle to focus with the boring stuff). Player B clearly spent more time, but in the end, both players did the same amount of work. The kinetic energy utilized is the same.

I do see what you mean though...but I don't think putting an upper limit is the best solution for rps I wanna do either. I don't want to limit people's words. I like reading them. Finding a comfort zone of writing for everyone is a challenge worth taking on if the gm is up to it. But in my mind, if a player gets overwhelmed or bored of another players response in a group setting it's simply just a matter focusing on their style or finding another player in the group to interact with if they want to continue rping.

That said your solution of a compromise holds merit.

Fair enough maybe a more detail specific rule rather than a length one.

Rule - Your post must be X length at minimum and contain information relevant to the current action of the roleplay. If more than two paragraphs in your post do not contribute to the current action or are not something your partners may respond to than you will be asked to edit your post.
​

It's a little wordy but I think it could prevent what a lot of people have a problem with in overly long responses. Not so much the excess words but the excess word that don't contribute to the current action.

I had an example of this happen in a 1x1 I was doing. The person wrote like page long posts for each of their replies, which honestly doesn't bother me. What did bother me is like 99% of their post was off screen antics. Meaning it was all about for instance their character going to work, or on dates, or grocery shopping or whatever.

Nothing that involved my characters or that my characters could interact to as they were meant to be a superhero team trying to solve a mystery.

So like what their character did in their day job was not really relevant to the ongoing plot.

And I would continually try to just maneuver my character to be in positions to run into their character during the day job segments just to attempt to kick start the plot and they would devote maybe a paragraph or two to my character before going back to doing their little slice of life vignettes.

It was incredibly frustrating as a person who not only had to read these long posts with information that was not relevant but had to continually attempt to get someone to engage who obviously didn't care about the ongoing plot in any way shape or form.

Now that's an extreme example and it was in a 1x1 where I could message the person directly about maybe editing their posts to be a little more about the actual plot and not so much about putting five paragraphs of their character doing their day job and going on a date with their girlfriend.

But I think having some kind of group requirement that people stay on task and edit down the extraneous detail would be good too. Not so much - you can't write however many words you want to write. More - hey if you're going to write a lot at least have it be relevant to what is going on and not some side tangent

 

[QuirkyAngel]

Fair enough maybe a more detail specific rule rather than a length one.

Rule - Your post must be X length at minimum and contain information relevant to the current action of the roleplay. If more than two paragraphs in your post do not contribute to the current action or are not something your partners may respond to than you will be asked to edit your post.
​

It's a little wordy but I think it could prevent what a lot of people have a problem with in overly long responses. Not so much the excess words but the excess word that don't contribute to the current action.

I had an example of this happen in a 1x1 I was doing. The person wrote like page long posts for each of their replies, which honestly doesn't bother me. What did bother me is like 99% of their post was off screen antics. Meaning it was all about for instance their character going to work, or on dates, or grocery shopping or whatever.

Nothing that involved my characters or that my characters could interact to as they were meant to be a superhero team trying to solve a mystery.

So like what their character did in their day job was not really relevant to the ongoing plot.

And I would continually try to just maneuver my character to be in positions to run into their character during the day job segments just to attempt to kick start the plot and they would devote maybe a paragraph or two to my character before going back to doing their little slice of life vignettes.

It was incredibly frustrating as a person who not only had to read these long posts with information that was not relevant but had to continually attempt to get someone to engage who obviously didn't care about the ongoing plot in any way shape or form.

Now that's an extreme example and it was in a 1x1 where I could message the person directly about maybe editing their posts to be a little more about the actual plot and not so much about putting five paragraphs of their character doing their day job and going on a date with their girlfriend.

But I think having some kind of group requirement that people stay on task and edit down the extraneous detail would be good too. Not so much - you can't write however many words you want to write. More - hey if you're going to write a lot at least have it be relevant to what is going on and not some side tangent

I like it

 

[Whisker]

No one said post length requirements were made to filter out bad writers. They were made to filter out players who cannot write a certain length. This does not equate bad writing as you said. There may be other reasons a gm might require a certain length.



P1 did not follow the rules of the rp. Therefore it's fair. In fact, if P2 were the one to get the warning, they'd be the one to be just in saying 'it's not fair' because nowhere in the rules did the gm write, 'no bad writing'.




I can appreciate this. You're like my brother. He reads to understand too and wishes that certain authors, like Shakespere, would just get to the point^^When I was in my high-school, he was the one I gave my short stories to read because I didn't have much confidence when it came to posting my work. He was always my harshest critique, especially during my flowery moments. Comments like 'do her eyes really matter or something?' or 'the first 3 paragraphs nearly made me fall asleep' shaped how I write today.

I wouldn't call myself a terribly verbose writer of high diction and skill. However, I can also appreciate it when I read it. Flowery isn't just length. It's also word choice and flow. Is the purpose of your writing to get people to understand, or is it to capture the senses? Some people are just naturally verbose. They are well-read an have a way with words that are just...beautiful.

I think the mark of a good writer is one who knows their own voice. Who knows their audience and their purpose. A person who tries for grand words that they aren't familiar with will become painfully obvious in their writing. That's why most lit educators will tell you to stick to your skill level. English classes teach the basics of writing...which is writing to communicate. Therefore, simple, clear, and concise is always better. Once you move higher, writing becomes much more convoluted. You'll have the artistic writers and then those writing for speeches. Romance writing tends to be more flowery because their purpose is to catch their audience in the thrill of passion and emotion, whereas action stories are just there to tell the story.

Rps are the same. Some rps are more focused on character development and don't care as much about pacing as digging into the characters, seeing their reactions, capturing the moment, etc. Some are more focused on the story- about getting from point A to point B without stopping to smell the roses. I'm probably more of the former than the latter, though don't quote me on that, as I tend to be whimsical when it comes to the rps I join =P

One thing I will say though is that simple isn't always clearer.

I hate dogs.

I hate dogs because they bark loudly. They scare me. They also smell. Whenever I see I dog, I often think it's diseased-ridden or has rabies. That's what's what my mother told me when I asked her once. She told me a dog smells because it is diseased-ridden and has rabies.

Which one made things clearer, promotes more understanding? For me, it's the second one. It has more detail.

Again, this is NOT the type of writing we are talking about. You have more content, but your writing is still concise and to the point of what you’re trying to say. When we talk about too much detail, we’re getting into the realm of addressing things such as the rise of purple prose and the insertion of detail where it otherwise does not make sense.

I’ll use this example from: https://www.onlinewritingjobs.com/writing-tips/what-is-purple-prose-and-when-is-it-appropriate/

“Her eyelashes flickered in a fast movement along the tops of her cheeks to reveal pupils that took in bouncing light, revealing the sight of the man across from her.”

This sentence is inherently the same as “She glanced at him”. It does not promote any understanding of what the reader is trying to convey, and it drags the story (and the reader) down when you have pages upon pages of this stuff.

It is longer, but it’s not necessarily better.

Another situation in which detail could be too superfluous is regarding action or fight scenes. I love writing combat scenes more than anything else. To me, nothing is cooler or more intriguing than a well-written fight scene.

However, it seems every time I engage in one, there is always one person who feels the need to bombard the post with a ton of irrelevant internal (sometimes external) monologue or flashback. It’s like watching those animes where it takes 40 episodes or more to get through a fight that supposed to happen in 10 minutes. There is no sense of urgency or adrenaline – it’s just sort of relegated to the background while the writer drones about his angst.

I don’t know if it’s the same for Killigrew and Uncultured , but that’s what I’m talking about when I refer to some of the bad practices encouraged by setting minimum requirements.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

Again, this is NOT the type of writing we are talking about. You have more content, but your writing is still concise and to the point of what you’re trying to say. When we talk about too much detail, we’re getting into the realm of addressing things such as the rise of purple prose and the insertion of detail where it otherwise does not make sense.

I’ll use this example from: https://www.onlinewritingjobs.com/writing-tips/what-is-purple-prose-and-when-is-it-appropriate/

“Her eyelashes flickered in a fast movement along the tops of her cheeks to reveal pupils that took in bouncing light, revealing the sight of the man across from her.”

This sentence is inherently the same as “She glanced at him”. It does not promote any understanding of what the reader is trying to convey, and it drags the story (and the reader) down when you have pages upon pages of this stuff.

It is longer, but it’s not necessarily better.

Another situation in which detail could be too superfluous is regarding action or fight scenes. I love writing combat scenes more than anything else. To me, nothing is cooler or more intriguing than a well-written fight scene.

However, it seems every time I engage in one, there is always one person who feels the need to bombard the post with a ton of irrelevant internal (sometimes external) monologue or flashback. It’s like watching those animes where it takes 40 episodes or more to get through a fight that supposed to happen in 10 minutes. There is no sense of urgency or adrenaline – it’s just sort of relegated to the background while the writer drones about his angst.

I don’t know if it’s the same for Killigrew and Uncultured , but that’s what I’m talking about when I refer to some of the bad practices encouraged by setting minimum requirements.

Hm, I thought we were talking about quotas and detailed writers =P

Anyway,

“Her eyelashes flickered in a fast movement along the tops of her cheeks to reveal pupils that took in bouncing light, revealing the sight of the man across from her.”

I don't hate this type of writing I find it very pretty. As I said, I'm not a very verbose writer, but I can appreciate it. It's very descriptive and practices "show not tell".

This is an example of one of my posts.

Spoiler: Sample

Axton Selwyn.

The rush of the wind against his face, blowing his hair, as he pushed through sky on his broomstick served to dissolve his tangled thoughts as Axton focused on the task at hand. There was something exhilarating about being in the air that got the blood pumping. That was the reason he'd joined the Gryffindor Team in the first place. Not that the game wasn't appealing its own right. Competition always appealed to Axton and, while he focused more on Dueling to hone his skills, he could also appreciate the finer aspects of the aerial sport. Faster. Faster. Shooting through one of hoops at his max speed, Axton made several loops around the ring before circling back and continuing his flight around the pitch at a lazier pace. Not like practice would do him any good anyway since Axton was banned from matches. Since last year's incident, in fact. His hot temper had gotten the best of him after the Death Eater referee had called the sixth 'foul' on Gryffindor and he'd done something he hadn't regretted.

Not much anyway.

The House of the Lions hadn't won a single game since Hogwarts re-opened three years ago. With rumors of possible new sanctions against mudbloods playing Quidditch being implimented this year, eliminating the best Seeker from his house team, their chances of winning dropped to zilch. Hope of the Gryffindors ever making a comeback in the House Cup was gone. The winner would always be the house the Dark Lord favored. Axton sneered. Was this the pride of the Purebloods? To eliminate the competition before it even began? Rather than strength, it proved cowardice in Axton's eyes. Fear. Instead showing the superiority of his fellow purebloods, the adults only served to tarnish their own honor. Axton was a Gryffindor. And despite what his parents may have hoped for him, Axton wasn't ashamed of the house he was chosen for. Proud of it in fact.

He had no animosity against Dumbledore's Golden Boy. If anything, he held a bit of admiration for older Gryffindor who brought a string glory to their house - not that he would ever admit it aloud, of course . Potter was the one who had had seen in his first year take on dragons to represent their school in the Triwizard Tournament. The one rumored to have defeated basilisks. To have ended the first Wizarding War. Not the second one though. The Dark Lord proved his superiority there - that Potter's first victory had been nothing but a fluke. Licking his lips, Axton opened his arms wide, letting the night chill embrace him without ever feeling it. His blood was too hot.

His parents had supported the winning side of the war. He was now able to freely practice the Dark Arts. Axton supposed he ought to be grateful for that, even if the Fountain of Life program saddled him with a boring housewife. Not like his parents hadn't already made plans in that department. There were probably worse things in life than being engaged to a woman he hardly knew. Hopefully they cared enough about the Selwyn genes to not pick someone hideous. Or inbred. Selwyn shuddered.

Performing one last barrel roll, the seventh year was about to call it a night when he spotted three girls making their way to the Quidditch pitch. Avery, Travers, and Nott. All three were in the year bellow him, but girls he knew to the certain degree. Avery was Tommy's younger sister and a Ravenclaw. Alicia Travers was best friends with his roommate, and Nott...a good-looking Slytherin he'd seen at a social gathering once. Or twice. All three were daughters from pureblood, dark families that supported Voldemort. More importantly, they were all lovely ladies in their own right. Especially Briar Nott. There was something about the ones he knew least, that always left him wanting more - especially under the sheets. Eyes glimmering, and an ever-confident smirk spreading across his face, Axton dove downward, swerving sharply to stop in front of the three girls. Did he care that he might be interrupting their night stroll? Intruding on private conversation? Not really. Axton had never been the type to hesitate because of that.

"Hello there,Ladies~" Axton greeted languidly, his eyes roaming between the three sixth years. "What are you three doing out here? Come to see my flying skills?"

The character was just by himself flying around before I had him interact with 3 other characters. He's basically just by himself being angsty while I added a bit to the world. Since you seem to be more a direct, to the point rper, I'm curious as to what your opinion is. No need to hold back.