Magic System for combat

[Idea]

Hi! How`s it going?


So, I`m tinkering this group roleplay (My first attempt at one), and am currently constructing a magic system. I was looking to go get a small group of people, maybe 3 or 4 at the most (me excluded) and I wanted to get a nice deal of fighting into te rp.


Still, I have a problem (you may have guessed that by now): metagaming and godmodding. Everyone in an rp fight wants to win. Praticaly everyone sees their characters as "the main one". There`s nothing wrong with that. However, I have come to know this will often trigger character "cheats", such as sudden superhuman reflexes or flawless intuition or omnipotent indurance, etc...


In general terms, I think I can tell those who are overpowered or ver probably will be, from the rest. However, I have unable to counter the rest of the problem, which resides in the sudden irrealistic (as in nonsensical, illogical, something that character wouldn`t actually do or be able to do) changes to the character.


In preference I`d like a counter that was imbued into the magic system itself, but I am willing to be flexible. As long as I can fix the issue without spoiling the fun for everyone, I may just take it.


Thank you all for your time.

 

[Dagfinn]

I prefer a small group of RPers I know well this usually avoids this issue because reasonable RPers can admit when their character is weaker or if they need to lose for plot purposes.


Though if you're RPing with friends and strangers alike, as the OP you can just tell them who will win. Either picking by logic/plot/or simply flip a coin. You're in control, so take control. If someone throws a hissy fit then s/he shouldn't be RPing.

 

[Idea]

I prefer a small group of RPers I know well this usually avoids this issue because reasonable RPers can admit when their character is weaker or if they need to lose for plot purposes.
Though if you're RPing with friends and strangers alike, as the OP you can just tell them who will win. Either picking by logic/plot/or simply flip a coin. You're in control, so take control. If someone throws a hissy fit then s/he shouldn't be RPing.

I did consider that option, but I don`t think that`s right. You seem to think otherwise, and I respect that opinion (saying that makes it sound as if I really don`t, doesn`t it? Sorry), but I consider roleplaying freedom an important aspect of the rp. If I could just be didactic this would turn into a story I write on my own, rather than the rp. It would kill the point and make everyone have a bad time.


The need to be the "main" or to always win, is deep even in people who are usually very reasonable. Excuses would normally arise and fights (OOC ones) would start among the rpers, causing people to drop and the thread to die.


Still, I appreciate your input!

 

[White Masquerade]

I get what you're saying. Fighting is appealing. I love it and I'm sure a lot of other people do too. Role-plays can get along just fine without it, but the interaction just won't feel the same. It's like the frosting on a cake, the cherry on top, another outlet for RPers to express themselves. It's not needed, but having it makes things that much better.


It's great you asked this question because that is the same exact thing I'm working on. People want to fight, but most times, their logic of how it happens, doesn't jive with the other person's. Like you say, this leads to arguments that then bring bad vibes, and then the eventual break of the thread. This is not even counting the people who like to play OP characters that can destroy things with one finger, so the user can feel like they have everyone else by the b@lls. I'm surprised that's being tolerated. I'm surprised it's still an issue. I'm surprised I don't see more threads trying to fix it. One line in the rules about not having OP characters/Mary & Gary Sues, is not going to do anything. With the right descriptions, even the lamest character can do some pretty amazing things.


Not having OP-metagaming-gomodding descriptions, is the problem, and that's pretty hard to control. As for handling what a character is realistically able to do, the solution would be bonuses. "Since you have frog powers, you have a +45 bonus to Dexterity." So when that character attempts dexterous things, they can do it, while others who don't have that bonus, will probably mess up. So the meat-head who has a bonus to strength won't be dodging bullets anytime soon. Probably surviving, but not dodging.


As for the actual system. You'll have one of two options. I am excluding that silliness of someone writing a scene and points are awarded for how well it's written. I am also excluding scenarios being written and other players voting on which one works. >_>. The two real options are dice or tokens. Dice, covers most things well, but can get complicated, really, really fast. I remember a Dice RP I was in where I had to roll 3 rounds for damage, use different modifiers whether dodging or blocking, and multiply the roll by 0.5 when it came to the damage phase...O.M.G. It was a nightmare. Very cool world we were in, cool story we were following, but the dice absolutely ruined any enjoyment for me. Also, and I'll say it: those who are into those complex dice systems, are generally "less accommodating/receptive/tolerant/approachable," than free-form players. Go dice for your system, if you want something that works. It will however, eliminate a lot of potential members.


The second way, tokens, is what I'm taking a long look at. Absolutely anything other than dice, ( ). It's where you spend "tokens" to do actions. Depending on what you're trying to accomplish, tokens can be tailored to your RP however you want. Regenerate tokens, allow players to steal tokens, allow certain classes to make more tokens, etc. It's flexible in a way dice are not. Think of Dice as Iphone. All the "high" people use it. It works and everybody supports/wants to do stuff for it. Think of Tokens as Android. The "hipsters" use it. You know what though? It's flexible and highly customizable, allowing anyone to make it how they want.


Making a good token system, will take a lot of work and testing, but once you have it, it will be PERFECT for how you want to do things. Dice are easier to go with and most people use them anyway, but you will be keeping those lovely, good-natured hipsters from joining you.

 

[Idea]

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]I get what you're saying. Fighting is appealing. I love it and I'm sure a lot of other people do too. Role-plays can get along just fine without it, but the interaction just won't feel the same. It's like the frosting on a cake, the cherry on top, another outlet for RPers to express themselves. It's not needed, but having it makes things that much better.
It's great you asked this question because that is the same exact thing I'm working on. People want to fight, but most times, their logic of how it happens, doesn't jive with the other person's. Like you say, this leads to arguments that then bring bad vibes, and then the eventual break of the thread. This is not even counting the people who like to play OP characters that can destroy things with one finger, so the user can feel like they have everyone else by the b@lls. I'm surprised that's being tolerated. I'm surprised it's still an issue. I'm surprised I don't see more threads trying to fix it. One line in the rules about not having OP characters/Mary & Gary Sues, is not going to do anything. With the right descriptions, even the lamest character can do some pretty amazing things.


Not having OP-metagaming-gomodding descriptions, is the problem, and that's pretty hard to control. As for handling what a character is realistically able to do, the solution would be bonuses. "Since you have frog powers, you have a +45 bonus to Dexterity." So when that character attempts dexterous things, they can do it, while others who don't have that bonus, will probably mess up. So the meat-head who has a bonus to strength won't be dodging bullets anytime soon. Probably surviving, but not dodging.


As for the actual system. You'll have one of two options. I am excluding that silliness of someone writing a scene and points are awarded for how well it's written. I am also excluding scenarios being written and other players voting on which one works. >_>. The two real options are dice or tokens. Dice, covers most things well, but can get complicated, really, really fast. I remember a Dice RP I was in where I had to roll 3 rounds for damage, use different modifiers whether dodging or blocking, and multiply the roll by 0.5 when it came to the damage phase...O.M.G. It was a nightmare. Very cool world we were in, cool story we were following, but the dice absolutely ruined any enjoyment for me. Also, and I'll say it: those who are into those complex dice systems, are generally "less accommodating/receptive/tolerant/approachable," than free-form players. Go dice for your system, if you want something that works. It will however, eliminate a lot of potential members.


The second way, tokens, is what I'm taking a long look at. Absolutely anything other than dice, ( ). It's where you spend "tokens" to do actions. Depending on what you're trying to accomplish, tokens can be tailored to your RP however you want. Regenerate tokens, allow players to steal tokens, allow certain classes to make more tokens, etc. It's flexible in a way dice are not. Think of Dice as Iphone. All the "high" people use it. It works and everybody supports/wants to do stuff for it. Think of Tokens as Android. The "hipsters" use it. You know what though? It's flexible and highly customizable, allowing anyone to make it how they want.


Making a good token system, will take a lot of work and testing, but once you have it, it will be PERFECT for how you want to do things. Dice are easier to go with and most people use them anyway, but you will be keeping those lovely, good-natured hipsters from joining you.

[/QUOTE]
That`s actually a good idea, and one I considered, but I don`t think it`d work. It would make the fight reassemble that of a video game´s too much. From the way I see it (cause there are people who enjoy that kind of fighting system in rps) the fight would become restraining . simplistic and far too impersonal. Not to mention it would be nearly impossible to catalog everything under such a system.


I may be being too picky here, but I`m really looking for something I can incorporate that will reduce the possibility of people doing those cheats to a bare minimum without ruining the fun of a fight scene. This, I believe, implies I need that`s not entirely obvious, something I can mix into the magic system and lore of the rp.


Nevertheless, thank you for your contribution.

 

[White Masquerade]

Understood. Then yes, I do think you are being too picky and asking for way too much. Which isn't a bad thing. It's just that you want something that can't be done. I'd love to go back in time and re-do to avoid mistakes I've made in the past, but it's not possible. I have to make do with avoiding making anymore.


Stopping God-modding and Meta-gaming is not possible. You can punish it, you can discourage it, but you cannot stop it. To stop it, you would literally have to go inside the other person's head and say, "don't do that." You see how silly that is? If I want to godmod/metagame, I'm going to do it. You cannot stop me from making that post. You can kick me from the RP after you read it. Or put me in time-out. Delete my post and say it never happened, but then that would ruin the fight.


Getting good players who don't do those things is your best bet. No system is going to reduce god-modding/metagaming unless it's numbers-based (which completely removes it). If you don't want to use them, then the only things GMs can do, is handle what happens after-the-fact. Kick the player, penalize them, etc. If you go for penalizing them, then you are kind of deciding who wins the fight yourself; which takes out the fun you want to keep in the fight.


I'm not trying to dissuade you from making what you want, just pointing out the realistic roadblocks. If you manage to figure something out and it works, let me know because I would sure as hell love to use it.

 

[Idea]

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]Understood. Then yes, I do think you are being too picky and asking for way too much. Which isn't a bad thing. It's just that you want something that can't be done. I'd love to go back in time and re-do to avoid mistakes I've made in the past, but it's not possible. I have to make do with avoiding making anymore.
Stopping God-modding and Meta-gaming is not possible. You can punish it, you can discourage it, but you cannot stop it. To stop it, you would literally have to go inside the other person's head and say, "don't do that." You see how silly that is? If I want to godmod/metagame, I'm going to do it. You cannot stop me from making that post. You can kick me from the RP after you read it. Or put me in time-out. Delete my post and say it never happened, but then that would ruin the fight.


Getting good players who don't do those things is your best bet. No system is going to reduce god-modding/metagaming unless it's numbers-based (which completely removes it). If you don't want to use them, then the only things GMs can do, is handle what happens after-the-fact. Kick the player, penalize them, etc. If you go for penalizing them, then you are kind of deciding who wins the fight yourself; which takes out the fun you want to keep in the fight.


I'm not trying to dissuade you from making what you want, just pointing out the realistic roadblocks. If you manage to figure something out and it works, let me know because I would sure as hell love to use it.

[/QUOTE]
Hmm...Well, I suppose you`re right. I created this thread since I was`t able to come up with a solution to my problem on my own (well, not one that satisfied me) yet I was aware it might simply not exist. I`m finishing the touches on the worldbuilding, so unless someone ends up finding out how to do it, I guess I`ll have to simply moderate case-by-case.

 

[White Masquerade]

Hmm...Well, I suppose you`re right. I created this thread since I was`t able to come up with a solution to my problem on my own (well, not one that satisfied me) yet I was aware it might simply not exist. I`m finishing the touches on the worldbuilding, so unless someone ends up finding out how to do it, I guess I`ll have to simply moderate case-by-case.

Yeah it is a pain I know =(. I hope someone has the answer too