Advice/Help How To Push the Plot Forward? [Resolved.]

[Toacho]

I have a friend who I enjoy to roleplay with, (Been roleplaying with them for about six years now and have been losing interest in roleplaying with them recently,) but they struggle with pushing the plot forward, oftentimes leaving me the burden of carrying the entire story as the sole decision maker for every choice and the sole person to make the entire story and do all the world-building. Naturally, this is rather annoying for me and can make the roleplay rather dull since I can always anticipate every move and direction that the story will go. However, they recently recognized this and want to start to work on both making and providing choices as well as sharing the creation of the roleplay in general with me so that we can both have surprises and stay interested. That's where the question is raised of what are some tips to help them push the plot forward so that I'm not stuck as the sole-creator?

 

[Owl Knight]

I don't have any tips, but I can commiserate. I have definitely had partners in the past who I wished would take more charge of a roleplay. That being said, it is a catch-22 as I sometimes find that when my partners do make decisions in the story, changing my vision for the plot can often take me some effort.

 

[Onmyoji]

I usually solve this by discussing with rp partners in OOC what we should do in the plot and how to move it. Talking about it usually sparks up the interest on both sides. And then we agree on something like "in your next post you write this and this and I'll continue and add this".
So basically we pre-plan the next couple responses.

This works for me and some of my partners but I understand it may not work for everyone. It works better when both rp partners like planning. Works worse with those who prefer to plot on the go.
Still, maybe you could try and see where it takes you.

 

[Idea]

I usually solve this by discussing with rp partners in OOC what we should do in the plot and how to move it. Talking about it usually sparks up the interest on both sides. And then we agree on something like "in your next post you write this and this and I'll continue and add this".
So basically we pre-plan the next couple responses.

This works for me and some of my partners but I understand it may not work for everyone. It works better when both rp partners like planning. Works worse with those who prefer to plot on the go.
Still, maybe you could try and see where it takes you.

Before I make my own post, I don't think this actually solves their problem. The way Toacho explained, her problem was that she was losing interest in the roleplay because she could anticipate things.

Naturally, this is rather annoying for me and can make the roleplay rather dull since I can always anticipate every move and direction that the story will go.

So while don't get me wrong, I am ALL for planning, in this particular case planning would still leave her with her original problem.

 

[Idea]

Now, with all things said, I have no clue why this is labeled worldbuilding when it's about plot, but leaving that aside...

Pushing the plot forward can imply, from what I can tell, one of two things. Either it means strictly providing your partner something they can work a response from and/or it means pushing the actual narrative forward towards the conclusion.

For the first, my general approach is to have in every post include a set of questions (that aren't yes/no questions) and/or including a actions, events or descriptions of the environment that have a big enough impact to have to be responded to. A very loud sound, the description of a luxurious castle, and very weird flashy habit of the character, any of these can prompt a response from just about anyone.
Just as important though, is that characters have innitiative. The character shouldn't just passively observe what happens and taking it in, responding only to what directly prompts a response, they should also take actions of their own. From trying to hug someone because they are sad, to doing something unexpected because your personal goals maybe don't align with the previous direction. Which leads me to the second way of moving the plot forward: Pushing the actual narrative.

Now for this one, you need to know what the direction of the narrative is. Usually you will find it in an overarching arc: Two characters set on killing the demon king brought together by their common goal get closer to the end of the narrative as they approach the moment of actually slaying the damm thing (or in turn, failing in a way that won't let them try again). However, the direction of the story is important, because if the focus isn't actually their attempt at slaying the dk, but it's more, say, about the characters trying to overcome their past trauma as they travel together, then maybe the way you want to push the plot further isn't by discovering new means or problems with the slaying quest, but maybe it's some emotional event or the character deciding to do something stupid due to their emotional hang ups, for instance.

Anyway, hope this helps. Best of luck and happy RPing!

 

[Toacho]

I don't have any tips, but I can commiserate. I have definitely had partners in the past who I wished would take more charge of a roleplay. That being said, it is a catch-22 as I sometimes find that when my partners do make decisions in the story, changing my vision for the plot can often take me some effort.

I can understand the feeling. Sometimes I have a story that I'd like to go a specific direction so I'll try to take the reigns a bit more for those sorts of stories. Usually, I specify when that is the case though.

I usually solve this by discussing with rp partners in OOC what we should do in the plot and how to move it. Talking about it usually sparks up the interest on both sides. And then we agree on something like "in your next post you write this and this and I'll continue and add this".
So basically we pre-plan the next couple responses.

This works for me and some of my partners but I understand it may not work for everyone. It works better when both rp partners like planning. Works worse with those who prefer to plot on the go.
Still, maybe you could try and see where it takes you.

As Idea posted in the comment below, it's not really an issue of communication. I usually give this person fair warning if I want to take a certain direction with the plot and I try to ask them and see where they want to go with the plot and story as we roleplay. The issue is that by doing this, I can always anticipate everything that is going to occur.

Now, with all things said, I have no clue why this is labeled worldbuilding when it's about plot, but leaving that aside...

Pushing the plot forward can imply, from what I can tell, one of two things. Either it means strictly providing your partner something they can work a response from and/or it means pushing the actual narrative forward towards the conclusion.

For the first, my general approach is to have in every post include a set of questions (that aren't yes/no questions) and/or including a actions, events or descriptions of the environment that have a big enough impact to have to be responded to. A very loud sound, the description of a luxurious castle, and very weird flashy habit of the character, any of these can prompt a response from just about anyone.
Just as important though, is that characters have innitiative. The character shouldn't just passively observe what happens and taking it in, responding only to what directly prompts a response, they should also take actions of their own. From trying to hug someone because they are sad, to doing something unexpected because your personal goals maybe don't align with the previous direction. Which leads me to the second way of moving the plot forward: Pushing the actual narrative.

Now for this one, you need to know what the direction of the narrative is. Usually you will find it in an overarching arc: Two characters set on killing the demon king brought together by their common goal get closer to the end of the narrative as they approach the moment of actually slaying the damm thing (or in turn, failing in a way that won't let them try again). However, the direction of the story is important, because if the focus isn't actually their attempt at slaying the dk, but it's more, say, about the characters trying to overcome their past trauma as they travel together, then maybe the way you want to push the plot further isn't by discovering new means or problems with the slaying quest, but maybe it's some emotional event or the character deciding to do something stupid due to their emotional hang ups, for instance.

Anyway, hope this helps. Best of luck and happy RPing!

Thanks for the best of wishes, I have been trying to implement the multiple actions for about a year now and while it has helped a little, it always goes right back down to me having to force the plot because they will make very little advancement with each action. For example, (And feel free to point out any mistakes I may be making, that's why I am asking.) I recently had a roleplay with them where our characters went to a bar. This was with me, him, and another girl who was in our group. At the bar, I pointed out a large set of various characters who stood out from the others as well as details around the room that they could interact with to get more information about the scenes to come. One system that I set up, not sure if this was helping or hindering, is limiting the number of interactions for each of the players to four interactions and then the number could either increase or decrease as they played. (Example, drinking or eating anything lowered the interaction number since most of the food was poisoned, and sometimes they could choose to interact with someone as they interacted with another of the people of interest, increasing their interaction number.)

While this setup seemed to help a little bit, it still required me to be the main one planning everything and I was the only one controlling any NPCs outside of the main party so I still knew what the NPCs would be like as well as the secrets and relevance to the plot at hand. Is this maybe an issue of I am the only one controlling NPCs? Or is it more I'm just not opening the plots up enough to have room for others to change it? (Most of my plots are usually centered around either the characters or the direct ending.) Either way, thank you for helping out! My friend and I really want to get back to roleplaying together, we just don't want it to be like the past hundred times where we would get a few posts in before I lost interest.

P.S. Does anyone possibly know some roleplays around here that I can use as a frame of reference for him and I so that we can review how to both co-write instead of one of us carrying the whole burden? I have a couple, but neither has gotten far enough to give much of an example yet.

 

[Idea]

I have been trying to implement the multiple actions for about a year now and while it has helped a little, it always goes right back down to me having to force the plot because they will make very little advancement with each action. For example, (And feel free to point out any mistakes I may be making, that's why I am asking.) I recently had a roleplay with them where our characters went to a bar. This was with me, him, and another girl who was in our group. At the bar, I pointed out a large set of various characters who stood out from the others as well as details around the room that they could interact with to get more information about the scenes to come. One system that I set up, not sure if this was helping or hindering, is limiting the number of interactions for each of the players to four interactions and then the number could either increase or decrease as they played. (Example, drinking or eating anything lowered the interaction number since most of the food was poisoned, and sometimes they could choose to interact with someone as they interacted with another of the people of interest, increasing their interaction number.)

Well, one thing I seem to be getting from your wording, and I may pretty well be mistaken about this, is that you seem to be assuming that you have to do something to fix your friend's problem. You took my advise as in you having to do the actions and questions, when in fact is not just you who should be doing that, it's your partner. This friend has to themselves take the innitiative or there will not be a way for them to contribute.

Now another thing is that all this time I was assuming this was a 1x1 partner you were talking about. Not that it makes that much of a difference.

Regarding the "limiting the number of interactions" thing, it seems odd to me, like an odd idea, but that is mostly because it never crossed my mind. I struggle to see how it could be implemented outside what amounts of tabletop RPG mechanics. Either way, it probably prompts people to be more conservative about what interactions they take, so it may reduce their interactions, but I honestly have no idea if this would hinder or promote innitiative.

Is this maybe an issue of I am the only one controlling NPCs? Or is it more I'm just not opening the plots up enough to have room for others to change it?

I think I'm starting to see the problem a bit more clearly. Before I say much more, would you mind PMing a couple character sheets from this friend of yours? I want to confirm what I'm about to say.

P.S. Does anyone possibly know some roleplays around here that I can use as a frame of reference for him and I so that we can review how to both co-write instead of one of us carrying the whole burden? I have a couple, but neither has gotten far enough to give much of an example yet.

Fantasy - The Wonderful Adventures of a Magical Girl and Her Pet (Except Not Really)

Realistic/Modern - Moves Like Your Livelihood Depends on It

Now I want to say though, these aren't exactly what you are looking for. I am a planner by nature, and most of my best RPs hence involve a lot of planning and arranging things and being precise, so a good chunk of what you're going to read in those two was planned beforehand. However, these discussions were involved with both partners, and we all took liberties in our own take of how to make events happen and the like.

 

[Toacho]

Well, one thing I seem to be getting from your wording, and I may pretty well be mistaken about this, is that you seem to be assuming that you have to do something to fix your friend's problem. You took my advise as in you having to do the actions and questions, when in fact is not just you who should be doing that, it's your partner. This friend has to themselves take the initiative or there will not be a way for them to contribute.

I think I'm starting to see the problem a bit more clearly. Before I say much more, would you mind PMing a couple character sheets from this friend of yours? I want to confirm what I'm about to say.

I can see what you mean by me trying to do something to fix my friend's issue. Ultimately, I understand that it's mainly their job to correct their own problem, though I would like to do anything in my power to make it easier for them to be able to correct this issue, as it impacts the both of us.

As far as character sheets, this friend does not have one and has used only one character throughout the entirety of our roleplays. While I wish that they had more and have addressed this issue a few times before, the character that they do use is rather well developed and has shown a decent amount of character development throughout the entire series that we have been playing. If you are asking for a character sheet to check if the character's personality includes any traits such as being indecisive or confused, that would honestly be the opposite of the character as my friend has painted their character to be more of the brash and head-first type, eliminating the idea that it could be a flaw of the character to struggle to make choices.

 

[Idea]

I can see what you mean by me trying to do something to fix my friend's issue. Ultimately, I understand that it's mainly their job to correct their own problem, though I would like to do anything in my power to make it easier for them to be able to correct this issue, as it impacts the both of us.

Well, you need to push them into it. This person told you they want to contribute, right? That they want to do what they didn't before. So, you need to actually make them do it. People, especially people like the one you've been describing very easily fall to laziness, even if they don't want to. For this reason the best way in which you can help them is to keep it in their minds. Then of course, to relieve a bit of the pressure, praise them for what they do well and provide feedback on where you think could be improvement. Make them work, but also make them feel validated for working.

As far as character sheets, this friend does not have one and has used only one character throughout the entirety of our roleplays. While I wish that they had more and have addressed this issue a few times before, the character that they do use is rather well developed and has shown a decent amount of character development throughout the entire series that we have been playing. If you are asking for a character sheet to check if the character's personality includes any traits such as being indecisive or confused, that would honestly be the opposite of the character as my friend has painted their character to be more of the brash and head-first type, eliminating the idea that it could be a flaw of the character to struggle to make choices.

Frankly speaking, them not having a character sheets was well within expectations.

I'm afraid your friend probably doesn't actually know what they are doing with the character. I'm not denying maybe they roleplay the character well, but characters that remain in one's head are underdeveloped most of the time. They are often characters mostly made up as one goes and this is absolutely terrible when it comes to innitiative because there isn't anything solid to fall back on.

For them to use their character to move the character in a direction of their own, the character needs several elements that players often don't think about until they have their character sheets to fill. What are the character's whole motivations? What do they like or not? What are their views and principles? What are their flaws and their fears? What places or things hold deeper meaning to them, where do they come from and what aspirations do they have and so on...Your partner probably has a few of these, but I am willing to bet that they haven't given it nearly enough thought and in fact many of them tend to shift or to be just incredibly vague.

What this also implies is that you have been GMing for your partner. You've been acting like a D&D GM would, creating everything around them and just letting their character roam through it. However, because their character isn't anchored to the world, and isn't really fixed in how they are, they could hardly have anything to add from their character. And this makes things super difficult when it comes to contribution especially in group settings.

Start by giving them NPCs. Maybe even do a mini roleplay where they control only NPCs, just so they can get a bit of the hang of using characters that not the one they are used to. Anchoring the character to the world, being able to manage a story that is at once related and parallel to the main one, is an important skill to have.

 

[Jet]

Well, deleted my post. Don't judge a thread by the title...

 

[Toacho]

Well, you need to push them into it. This person told you they want to contribute, right? That they want to do what they didn't before. So, you need to actually make them do it. People, especially people like the one you've been describing very easily fall to laziness, even if they don't want to. For this reason the best way in which you can help them is to keep it in their minds. Then of course, to relieve a bit of the pressure, praise them for what they do well and provide feedback on where you think could be improvement. Make them work, but also make them feel validated for working.


Frankly speaking, them not having a character sheets was well within expectations.

I'm afraid your friend probably doesn't actually know what they are doing with the character. I'm not denying maybe they roleplay the character well, but characters that remain in one's head are underdeveloped most of the time. They are often characters mostly made up as one goes and this is absolutely terrible when it comes to innitiative because there isn't anything solid to fall back on.

For them to use their character to move the character in a direction of their own, the character needs several elements that players often don't think about until they have their character sheets to fill. What are the character's whole motivations? What do they like or not? What are their views and principles? What are their flaws and their fears? What places or things hold deeper meaning to them, where do they come from and what aspirations do they have and so on...Your partner probably has a few of these, but I am willing to bet that they haven't given it nearly enough thought and in fact many of them tend to shift or to be just incredibly vague.

What this also implies is that you have been GMing for your partner. You've been acting like a D&D GM would, creating everything around them and just letting their character roam through it. However, because their character isn't anchored to the world, and isn't really fixed in how they are, they could hardly have anything to add from their character. And this makes things super difficult when it comes to contribution especially in group settings.

Start by giving them NPCs. Maybe even do a mini roleplay where they control only NPCs, just so they can get a bit of the hang of using characters that not the one they are used to. Anchoring the character to the world, being able to manage a story that is at once related and parallel to the main one, is an important skill to have.

Alright, thanks for the advice.

Edit: Deleted reply to Jet.

 

[KenKafka]

This has been said, but really it is a matter of just making things happen. External conflict, set backs, random encounters... It's up to your partner to come up with their own ideas and be proactive with the story. Even if they have no idea where they want to go with it, sometimes it is fun to just throw things in and see what happens. Maybe there is a random scenario generator they can use?

The other thing is, maybe it is time for them to try a new character? Six years is a long time to have only one face.

It also occurs to me that they might have some kind of anxiety over this and maybe the issue is rooted in something deeper?

 

[Toacho]

Make something happen. I know that is obvious as about but really that is what you do. Don't be shy don't pussy foot sound take the place by the horns and make something happen.

Blow omething up.
Make someone go missing.
Did someone say hostages?
Make the first move in a romance but OH NO it goes horribly wrong.
Suddenly monsters!!

Really is about doing stuff even if it doesn't really feel RIGHT it will in the long run because sitting around stagnant doing nothing feels wrong and bad too!!?

Alright, I'll try that out. I usually like to try and keep non-related events out of the situation, but I can definitely see how it would keep the plots themselves interesting, I just don't know if it would help get my friend to take more of a part in the roleplays.

This has been said, but really it is a matter of just making things happen. External conflict, set backs, random encounters... It's up to your partner to come up with their own ideas and be proactive with the story. Even if they have no idea where they want to go with it, sometimes it is fun to just throw things in and see what happens. Maybe there is a random scenario generator they can use?

The other thing is, maybe it is time for them to try a new character? Six years is a long time to have only one face.

It also occurs to me that they might have some kind of anxiety over this and maybe the issue is rooted in something deeper?

I understand most of the issues that they have about them trying to make the stories and choices with me, they've had some bad experiences with roleplayers who couldn't stand to 'have someone ruin their story', so he's gotten a bit into the habit of just going with the flow. I've told him that I have no problem with him making choices and initiating situations that may have not been planned for and that I'll let him know if I ever have any situations I would like to follow.

As far as the new character piece of information, that's a really good idea and I think it would help out a lot. I'm currently working on trying to get him to make a new character. I have even used a completely different roleplay setting for this one than our usual style. Hopefully this can force him to work with a new setting and create a completely new character to use. Thank you for the advice!

My suggestion relating to pushing someone else is loads of OOC planning where you both contribute. Plan a scene ahead of time, so you're both on the same page when it comes to writing. Encourage collaborative scene planning (share GDoc where you can see each other type real time helps), sure you may end up being the one to initially throw ideas out . . . BUT that is the first step to possibly getting a partners brain jogging, if this doesn't work and they say "yeah that's fine, okay, sure" to everything you suggestion . . . then outright tell them (communication is key) that you need help planning and you have this issue.

They may not even be aware that it bothers you so much, some people simply are passive RPers they go with their partners flow and generally take cues from in-character prompts/actions. So you may need to stay to them you have this issue, you'd like some help pushing forward, and you aren't having much fun RPing anymore because you've carried so long and you're tired.

I've never had the idea to use Google Docs before and I think I really like the idea. It would help a lot with the waiting period too since we both tend to write a decent amount. As far as suggesting ideas, we usually communicate a decent amount, but he still struggles with coming up with ideas and tends to stick to the more passive idea of 'yeah, sure, whatever you want.' I agree with your highlighted point that I need to be a little bit more assertive with it though, and I'll work harder to make sure to let him know when I need the help.

He knows that this is an issue, and while he did not directly ask me for tips on the subject, it is something that he apologized for recently and claimed that he wanted help to fix the problem- hence the forum post. We both know that the issue with us roleplaying is that I tend to grow bored rather quick due to the reasons highlighted in my original post. So while he knows of the situation, I still should probably work harder to let him know exactly when I need help and such.

Anyways, I think I have gotten enough useful information to help out. I need some time to try the suggestions highlighted already and see if things improve. If anyone else has some dire suggestions that they need to post, feel free, and I'll consider them and maybe give them a try. Thanks everyone for helping out!

 

[Toacho]

If it's more of a naturally passive person, but they want to improve / are aware then I think you two have done quite a job making the right steps. I think for your friend to get over the passiveness and to aid in your boredom do what my partner did to me (I wasn't passive but I would linger). She would just decide NEW SCENE and we're now be writing for a different set of characters.

Your partner seems like a long running partner, I highly recommend multiple character not all played at the same time, across various scenes doing different things. Then you can jump between characters doing different stuff when one set of characters is at an impasse. Then whenever you're done with that new set of characters you can go back to the previous set and start at a different (logical) point in time where something is happening. Both an easy way to time skip, but also refreshing because you get to play different characters.

My partner and I often wrote two sets of characters, in two different locations at a time sometimes. It's how I have always roleplayed, but seems like a lot of people don't actually RP like that, but if you do I just talked out of my ass for no real reason . . . if you don't I recommend it and if you need an example I'm happy to provide! >D

I think I get it, but I'll take an example if you have one on hand. That sounds like a really interesting idea. So would it be more like we each have a couple characters going through different scenes in the same universe? Or more like running two roleplays at once?

 

[Toacho]

Thank you for the examples! I told my friend to check it out and I am discussing extra characters currently with him. He seems interested in the idea. Hopefully, this will work out and help save our roleplays, thanks!