Fandom Gladius: A Multi-Fandom RP- OOC

[The Mad Queen]

Also The Mad Queen wow, that sounds like the kind of game that would never have gotten past the first session if the guy was really going that hard on railroading. This does, however, raise an important question: If you had such a bad experience with railroading, why is it that you, in turn, are railroading your own players? With an experience as bad as that, you should know that removing player agency from the equation is always a terrible idea and communicating with them is a much better idea than using the force-edit function since there is literally no way to use it without looking like a gigantic tool.

Now hold the phone just a second. Railroading or not, that guy was the worst GM/DM I've ever come across and to this day I've never heard stories of anything worse. He wasn't just a bad DM/GM, he was a bully with narcissistic tendencies among other things.
I wish it had just been railroading he did. I'd recommend going back and reading the full post on that campaign again but keep in mind it's skimming the surface. I wanted to include as much detail as I could but I was just recapping a bad campaign so I missed out a few things either as they were unrelated to the campaign (but still tied to his bad behaviour) or I missed out intentionally (such as the personal info he blackmailed me with, that's a no-no).

My worst sins? Jumping the gun on the edit function due to misreading a post (which could have been solved with actual communication instead of being a tool) and trying to block (and silence) a player who I thought could be harmful to the RP (when it wasn't the case). Shitty, but extremely minor in comparison to that guy. I don't think I'm capable of being as bad as him, even if I wanted to be.

Blackmail, threats of violence, outright bullying of myself and another player, encouraging violence against myself (his friend did end up hitting me and that's when I called it quits with that group altogether)...Total wankstain, not just as a DM/GM but as a human being who used his position to exercise some kind of vendetta that came from nowhere.

 

[Shining Wizard]

The Mad Queen But you've stated multiple times you're really heavy-handed with your GMing and tend to, for lack of a better phrasing, railroad your players.
I'm not sure how someone else being an asshole changes the fact that taking away player agency is a dick move?

 

[Specialist]

Shining Wizard I believe disengaging in this would be the best course of action. If it happens again, there's a problem. Can we just move along? I'm willing to forgive.

 

[Shining Wizard]

Specialist I dunno why you're getting so flustered over two people having a conversation, dude.
Though it is your turn to post btw.

 

[The Mad Queen]

The Mad Queen But you've stated multiple times you're really heavy-handed with your GMing and tend to, for lack of a better phrasing, railroad your players.
I'm not sure how someone else being an asshole changes the fact that taking away player agency is a dick move?

You were comparing my own style to the likes of another DM and I was explaining why that's simply not the case, given his own amount of sins committed as DM both in and out of the game.
When did I admit to being heavy-handed in regards to railroading though? Outside of the edit and being a dick to Zerohex before the RP started.

 

[Zerohex]

Going back to the matter relevant to the game here, and I've been meaning to post this for days and keep forgetting, maybe messing with people's posts with no discussion or warning for things such as "being contradictory" is a bad thing you shouldn't do. Because it is essentially railroading, a very hard sort about the same as a DM telling you that your rolls don't count or messing with your charsheet, and people will always be kinda right to be miffed at this.

While this DM sounds like someone that you should have probably abandoned from the word go, and honestly I'm surprised he even had friends and people interested enough to play his game going by what you're telling, Wizard is on some level right to point out that you may well be engaging in similar attitudes or considering them a valid approach, when by your experiences you should know this is not cool or fun at all.

Just stuff to think about, I suppose.

 

[The Mad Queen]

While this DM sounds like someone that you should have probably abandoned from the word go, and honestly I'm surprised he even had friends and people interested enough to play his game going by what you're telling,

Well his best friend (guy that hit me) I can see why he was friends with him, everybody else more or less got up and left a few sessions in. You see, it was part of a group where people took turns running a game so he'd been a player up until that point aside from like two sessions of 1st edition, which is a meat grinder so he got all of his...Whatever it was out by just killing PCs left and right. Somebody ran a Borderlands game (system they made themselves based on the games) that was a ridiculous amount of fun and during this time the guy was off in another country so was mostly absent.
Bad player, worse DM/GM.

I only stayed as long as I did due to blackmail and didn't stand up for myself for the same reason. If I pissed him off too much (and he is the 2nd pettiest person I know, so that's pretty easy to do) he'd just use that blackmail and I'd be up the creek.
Again, won't disclose details on what he blackmailed me with (too personal and ugly) but for the sake of discussion, I'll just say it would have had some nasty consequences so I thought staying in an awful, awful game and letting the wankstain (and his friend) pick on me every week was the better alternative. Eventually, I just stopped caring, told him what I thought (over the internet due to a fear of violence) and walked away.

Apparently my character was r**** to death by Gods before being wiped from reality in pretty graphic detail so I'm sure I struck a nerve by not doing what he wanted.
The player who broke my last D&D game also stuck up for this guy when I brought my concerns to another group about the blackmail and his bullying, which should have been a red flag about the kind of person he is.

Wizard is on some level right to point out that you may well be engaging in similar attitudes or considering them a valid approach, when by your experiences you should know this is not cool or fun at all.

It was super scummy attitudes and approach but nowhere near on the same level. Obviously I should have known better but to say we're the same is simply wrong. Railroading, blocking people and silencing players is awful (though railroading isn't always awful, just depends on how it's done) but it's got nothing on outright bullying, manipulation, extremely aggressive railroading, blackmail and the levels of pettiness that were present in that game (and outside of it too).

I will say the only thing making us similar is using railroading and being scummy about it, as well as being crappy to a player or two, just on two completely different levels. I think that is a valid concern/point at least. He's at the high-end of that scale, I'm somewhere just short of the middle.
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Sorry for getting defensive over this folks, but try to understand that given the blackmail and the twice weekly bullying it wasn't a nice time. In the end, he wasn't even kicked from the group. Two people agreed to give him another chance (which I was strongly against, but whatever) and he told everyone to go screw themselves, walking off in a huff.
Again, this was over the internet (my recommendation in case he hit somebody). Outside of reminding me he had the power, he never used the blackmail. To this day I think he was bluffing the whole time and enjoyed the power he had over me. To use it he would not longer have had that power. That is how psychopaths operate.
That's not a word I throw around lightly but I am convinced that this person was a psychopath. There is no other logical explanation for his actions (and trust me when I say I tried to find a reason for quite some time).

He was all smiles with everyone else, with only a few now knowing how bad he actually was. To this day some people think I was exaggerating the whole thing or lying about it (even though I showed them screenshots among other proof). This probably wasn't helped by myself leaving for weeks at a time where he was free to run his mouth and make up any narrative he wanted. He even admitted to me that he lied to people about me and about the kind of person I was and there was nothing I could do or he'd tell people "the real truth"

Wouldn't be surprised if one day he ends up in the joint for doing something really bad. I worry for the safety of people who associate with him.

I think I've talked about this monster enough. Sadly he's not the only psychopath I've encountered but given my own experiences I've picked up red flags so while I doubt he'll be the last one I encounter, I'm at least better equipped with how to spot and deal with one.
Silver lining I guess.

 

[Shining Wizard]

The Mad Queen it's mostly coming from a combination of the aforementioned incidents, the current rp's general gameflow, the bits about "vanguard players" and "being contradictory", the fact that your WoD characters that are apparently from actual games(?) would have to be GMPCs (really strong ones at that) to be rules-legal, a bunch of your characters having mind control abilities, the fact that you idolize the Elroy Bros, and that despite apologizing you seem to be resistant to the idea of censoring people as something you shouldn't do.

That's just off the top of my head but you get the general idea. It's a bunch of little warning flags scattered across the thread that are collectively setting off my alarm bells.

 

[The Mad Queen]

The Mad Queen it's mostly coming from a combination of the aforementioned incidents, the current rp's general gameflow, the bits about "vanguard players" and "being contradictory", the fact that your WoD characters that are apparently from actual games(?) would have to be GMPCs (really strong ones at that) to be rules-legal, a bunch of your characters having mind control abilities, the fact that you idolize the Elroy Bros, and that despite apologizing you seem to be resistant to the idea of censoring people as something you shouldn't do.

That's just off the top of my head but you get the general idea. It's a bunch of little warning flags scattered across the thread that are collectively setting off my alarm bells.

1.) I said mind control abilities were okay, so long as it only worked on the weak-minded, which is the case for characters who have it. Furthermore, while Alva's ability to commune with nature can be see as mind control, I specified that it wasn't. Also, in both cases (Douglas and Jolie) they cannot use their mind control to cause somebody to hurt themselves or others.
Using such abilities on actual PCs would be scummy anyway, so I'm not going to do that. Douglas hasn't even considered using mind control on a character who could expose him as a Werewolf (big no-no) or on a madman who thinks a doll is his daughter, and he's a complete asshole.

2.) White Wolf has balanced these characters already in regards to their actual games. The Vampires and Werewolves have a mighty number of weaknesses, and the Mages are humans who can do magic but not in front of the eyes of human beings. Given the RP having more than just humans I extended the definition of sleeper so as to not make the Mages absolutely broken (basically a sleeper is a sentient non-magic user/being now rather than just human) The moment Venkman starts casting spells willy nilly in a populated area he's dead. Given the character anyway, he's unlikely to do that. Admittedly, things would be different if I was playing a scumbag Mage but as paradoxes don't discriminate and they'd die in the same way.

All three characters were originally tabletop characters and if you're still not convinced I could talk to the DM (a good friend of mine) to provide screenshots of their sheets. She's also a good DM who didn't let bullshit fly at her table. If it was broken or not rules-legal then it wasn't allowed, end of. When that asshole (bringing him up again only for the sake of argument) wanted his Vampire to be able to do not even broken things but just really daft things like run on water or actual broken things like being immune to fire she put her foot down.

3.) The point about vanguard players is purely based upon past experiences and that keeping me on my toes, given that one of them managed to finish off a D&D game that was almost two years running. I've already brought this up at least once and how it's made me overly-cautious. However, with the RP and the current D&D game I run on Tuesdays I'm becoming less paranoid. I'll fully admit to having a problem with trusting others in general, but that's something I've been working on.

4.) I don't see how I'm being resistant to the idea of not censoring people in the future. It was scummy then and would be even scummier if I repeated it.

5.) I don't see how idolizing Griffin is a bad thing. Is that because TAZ is scripted and therefore is unrealistic in regards to actual games? Okay. I still fail to see how that's bad. They still managed to tell a good story that I took inspiration from when I started to run my own D&D game and aside from one person (the vanguard) everybody loved it.
I could talk to some of the old players if you don't believe me on that point either.

6.) Despite my defensiveness, I do see where you're coming from in regards to the railroading. In own my experience pure sandbox RPs don't tend to last long. In saying that, railroading the bollocks off this thing isn't going to help matters either. Perhaps what's really needed is a balance between the two, like one of the D&D games I ran. Full sessions were like 80% pure improv for what the players did and even the most story-focused sessions were still like a good 65% pure improv.
What I mean by balancing is to have a plot but not be overbearing with it by any means. There's ways to get people involved with plot-hooks and the like without shoving them into a grinder. Current D&D game has a ton of things I've scattered throughout the sessions that players have ignored or just missed while there's other things they've picked up on and run with.

Yes, this is the same D&D game that crashed and burned due to the actions of one player but it still lasted for almost two years before that happened. And it's not like somebody that disgusting is going to show up in the RP, as what they did is against the RPN rules anyway.
I've probably said this already, but when they failed to break the game in terms of it's rules, they instead sought about breaking the players and the DM/GM in one swoop. That level of dedication to breaking something is rare to come by, I'll admit but it's still something that made it quite difficult to trust people (given that I thought this person was a friend) on top of a big pile of other things I'll spare the details on.

7.) Finally, if you're seeing all these red flags and regard me as terrible then I really have to ask a bit of a burning question: Why are you in the RP at this point?
Now, I'm hoping that you stick around of course but obviously I can't force players to stay, especially if they're seeing red flags. It's just, coming from somebody who knows they should have backed out of games at the get-go when they got a bad feeling about who was running it, I'm curious.

 

[The Mad Queen]

Hopefully these will be my final words on this:

After reflecting on my recent awfulness I think editing another player's post is actually worse than deleting it altogether. You're not just robbing them of their voice, but twisting things around. I think if wankstain (guy who blackmailed) ran a text-based RPG he'd go over every post with a fine tooth comb and edit everything out.

Any behaviour that puts me remotely close to his bollocks is a no-no.
In short, every single time I thought over a decision while running a tabletop game I stopped to think for a brief moment, asking myself if it was something wankstain would have done and if the answer was yes then I wouldn't do it. I don't do it so much these days given I've been running D&D for a while...

And given all my recent bullshit I've started applying the same policy for this RP. It's just a case of imagining that guy as a text-based RPG DM rather than a tabletop one. Hopefully this mindset leads to not only bettering myself as a person but to a successful RP, which would be a good thing to come out of that awful experience.
Silver linings.

Furthermore, after some discussion with some players I've discovered I was 100% wrong about railroading. I thought that being a guiding hand and pushing a plotline up a notch or two was all railroading was and the asshole I mention had just taken railroading too far, and that railroading as a concept. still allowed for player choice, agency and fun while just pushing players down a certain path or two through the use of hooks and NPCs.
Turns out that's not the definition at all. Railroading is basically forcing the players into a box with no way out, which is a no-no.

It robs players of choice whatsoever. They're going in wanting to play a game where those choices matter (what Telltale pretends to be) and you're pushing them towards playing a dull Black Ops: 17 (or whatever that franchise is on now) campaign. One that lasts like 4 hours, is pretty dull and mostly gets ignored by the players in the long run.
They had some campaign gems back in the day, so don't take that as me crapping on the entire franchise.

Anyway, so when I've mentioned railroading before, I thought it was guiding players a bit more firmly rather than outright forcing them like an asshole. That's wankstain levels of stuff and while I've prided myself on not resorting to his level (even remotely) in tabletop RPGs...

I can't say the same for text-based stuff. That's something I need to fix, not just for the sake of the RP but for myself. I gotta do better.

Devolving into soppy crap now, but that's what happens at 4:30 in the morning:
Last year I realised some stuff about myself and after I begrudgingly accepted it I started a journey of self-discovery and self-improvement. I'm still on that journey for obvious reasons. In a way, all of this shittyness has been a weird part of that journey. It's shown me that I need to learn to let go of a few things in relation to two awful people I used to know as it's made me even more cold and bitter than I thought I was already. I've vented plenty here and I think it's obvious by reading my posts that these people hurt me.

I've spared most of the details for obvious reasons, but when somebody bullies and holds power over you for so long, making you live in fear or you think someone is your friend (for like nearly 3 years, I might add) and they do something to hurt you intentionally over something so goddamn trivial while at the same time revealing themselves to be a sick, twisted person who merely pretended to be your buddy...It's bad, but you make it worse if you let those experiences influence your own actions. It's one thing to be guarded, another to be shitty because other people were really shitty to you.

Long story short, said journey has involved letting go of and accepting things so that I can become a better person. I was a pretty bad person for quite a long time, and while it's not like I'm trying to become a goddamn Saint or anything I'm simply trying to be an okay woman. Someone I can like and be proud of. This whole mess (which I caused, nobody else) has allowed for a lot of self-reflection and will hopefully lead to some of that self-improvement I keep nagging on about at like 4 in the morning.

Thank you to everyone for your understanding, for talking me through things even when I was a bitch and above all, thank you for giving me another chance with the RP.
I'll try to not let you down.

 

[Shining Wizard]

Specialist Wait aren't Spartans basically just gattaca babies that go through child soldier training and a bunch of cyberware implants?

 

[Specialist]

Essentially. Childhood abductees that reiceved military training and various biochemical/cybernetic enhancements. They can flip fuggin' tanks in lore. Shining Wizard

 

[Shining Wizard]

Specialist Breddy rad. BTW, don't know how big you were imagining Torgo, but I was kinda writing her as clocking in at like 4 feet tall or so. I'll add it to my sheet.

 

[Specialist]

Shining Wizard Jeez, I was expecting about 7-8 maximum. Samus is a solid 7'1". 6'9" out of armor.

 

[Shining Wizard]

Specialist Yeah, that's why I had Torgo as reaching Samus' stomach earlier.

 

[Shining Wizard]

Specialist Also not sure if you picked up but we're in Zeon territory out in the wards if you wanted to comment on or react to that.
Or I can just keep going, your call really.

 

[Shining Wizard]

Specialist The Mad Queen Alright nevermind guess I just won't bother being polite and waiting for people to react from now on since everyone seems perfectly content with leapfrogging me on interactions when I do wait.
Not that I'm bitter.

 

[Verdana]

Oh hey this looks interesting!

 

[The Mad Queen]

Oh hey this looks interesting!

Are you thinking of joining?

 

[Verdana]

Perhaps! I might not be the most active though

 

[The Mad Queen]

Perhaps! I might not be the most active though

That's cool. There are some slower-moving things going on in the RP right now if you're worried about being left behind.

 

[Shining Wizard]

The Mad Queen Sleek Specialist Love how we finally hit a chase scene and nobody remembers to run except the NPC. Guess I'll work with what I got.

Also The Mad Queen while it's not the greatest for generating conflict I'm really digging how you're sticking hard to the space millennial angle. Your guy really does perfectly encapsulate that whole "inconsistent, self-righteous spoiled princess" archetype that people love to hate perfectly, down to people just throwing free stuff at her to justify her entitlement. Immense kudos.

 

[Sleek]

Spartans have taken on paired Hunters mano a mano, so I'm fairly sure two spartans would feel like they can take on a single mech, if you want to know why they aren't just running. Shining Wizard

 

[Shining Wizard]

Sleek You realize mobile suits are like sixty feet tall and solid metal, right?
This isn't, like, a big alien dude with a forcefield that you can use frangible rounds on and it just shreds them into taco meat. Kind of apples and oranges.

Well, that being said, I'm sure we can figure out a way for you to believably take one down if we think this through. They're the archetypal grunt MS in UC, after all.

 

[Specialist]

Shining Wizard Contrary to one expectation, this is the way that a Spartan from Halo would respond to a perceived threat. Conventional UNSC would turn tail and book it, but Spartans were trained to tackle the impossible and hold out against overwhelming odds. It was indoctrinated into them since childhood, and the view hasn't swayed in the slightest. Fours, probably, but these are two S-II Commandos. Only time a Spartan will run is to evade a clear and present chance of danger that, if the possibility of death loomed that would compromise mission integrity (without any other alternative in sight I may add), they'd default to protecting themselves and their allies solely on the logic that being dead compromises the mission.