Advice/Help Female Character Written By Males. The Good The Bad.

[Jet]

I've started writing female POV characters and they've been well received. Real quick tho, I'm gonna talk averages but understand that I acknowledge and happily accept outliers without negative judgment. I love me a female athlete or diesal tech engineer with a double X chromosome. I'm js what things are across vast distributions.

I think some main things to note are that

1. On average women are more people-focused than men and are more emotionally open while men are thing-focused and more emotionally reserved/simple.
2. Women are also quicker to compliment and observe aloud. The number of times I've heard girls compliment each other in detail vs guys is an infinite ratio skewed to girls cause me and my friends cap it at "nice fade bro your barber went hard".
3. Women take far better note of body language, posture, eye-location & subtext than men. A woman's "intuition" comes from the conscious and subconscious reading of these things.
4. Women are less aggressive, Test is a big driver of aggression.
5. Insults are subtle
6. Women tend to be more careful, which has positives and negatives about it.

Even though my women characters are more in touch I don't make them trembling emotion balls or damsels in distress. That's a huge no-no, but they do take greater interest in people and emotions are more at the forefront of the writing. Us guys are more like "fuck that bro, shits wack" or "damn dude, that's awesome" than women who are a bit more in touch and in detail. My male POV writing is technical, movements & gestures, thoughts and emotional undertones. My woman POV writing is a lot more free-flowing and focused on people and out-front feelings.

Also, don't describe things with women you wouldn't with a man, at least within good taste. I'm guilty of "attractively writing" women here or there but not like "DAMN that ass fat" more like tossed hair reflecting the light, KEEPING IT CLASSY as best possible.

And yeah ofc you can have women who are hyper-focused on things & less on people, you can have a stoic female & all that. I'm just talking averages. However as a man who's written many male POV characters I don't write women who have many classic male traits yet. I encorporate some because these are multi layered people, but I don't lay them thick. I'm still enjoying the new angle of women in the middle of the bell curve because it's different than what I'm used to writing.

 

[CecilDMMasters]

I think the people telling you to write a character and tag it as female are giving the best advise you can get on this. The most annoying characters I dealt with was people trying to write based on stereotype. And the most annoying 'feedback' I've gotten on characters involves them not fitting a stereotype despite that I'm basing on real life that I've seen in that I've met enough people IRL to know people and life don't conform to stereotype. And it can get old when rping with someone who tries to push a story or character into it.

Discussing the differences between men and woman is like people trying to convince me dogs are better than cats. Everything someone says, whether good or bad, about one I can give an example of meeting the other that trait fits. Just don't over think it.

STEREOTYPE Men doing hard long work while woman stick to easier jobs to be at home more.---A woman can do any job a male can do. And a man can, and is not ashamed, to do 'woman' jobs. Examples, male office workers, woman mechanics. Male nursing jobs, female surgeons. You go into a building a male may be at the desk and woman the manager who works long hours while her husband tends the kids.

STEREOTYPE Women are less violent than men and don't commit certain crimes- I knew a old woman that was a nurse in a woman's prison. She told me things . . . . . . . Let's just say criminal intent knows no boundaries.

STEREOTYPE Wage issues- I've heard more than one argument at work that a man is making less than a woman doing the same job. Because she worked their longer.

STEREOTYPE Woman want families more - A man can go around whining about being desperate for marriage and kids while a woman embraces being single and child-free and happy. Seen it and heard it.

STEREOTYPE women and men entertainment, boy and girl toy section- These concepts do not exist. All entertainment people can do be it, movies, sport, book, hobby should be considered unisex. Worked in a toy store once and so wanted to kill the parents who would tell a little boy he couldn't have a Littlest pet shop toy. Or a 'female' action figure. And tell a little girl she doesn't want a GI Joe.

STEREOTYPE Some pets are gender preferred (apparently even familiars in RP according to some people)- I know a woman with a dozen snakes and a aggressive breed dog. And several woman who keep rats. And don't trust a man who hates cats.

As you can see, just on these stereotypes you would be limiting your character horribly. And while real life examples of the opposite were out there. So just make your character. And leave out the over the top love story description and describe them with a respect for a human being.

Also, don't try to argue ''science" with someone about why a man or woman is different. Just . . . NOPE!

 

[Pine]

Jet also reminded me of one last tangent i want to go on lmao, which is hormones. im going to list off the emotional differences trans ppl usually report when they start taking cross-sex hormones because, while this never changes Who You Are, it can give you SOMETHING of an idea of how an estrogen-dominant system would feel vs a testosterone-dominant system.

transwomen have reported w taking estrogen/anti-progesterone (etc):
- estrogen having a "calming" effect. some saying it makes them more patient
- lower sex drive, and sex is much more "emotionally-focused" than "bodily-focused"

for transmen taking testosterone:
- higher sex drive
- feeling more angry/aggressive easier, though i will say from my experience this doesn't mean like literally losing my temper and snapping at people. the anger just feels Bigger. self-control is still there, but its just much easier to feel impatient and act assertive (might also be a confidence thing though, which mtf ppl can also get a boost of, so this is all rly subjective anyway).
- but mostly wanted to mention out of all of this, there's a lot of reports of losing the ability to cry when upset/in distress. for me i still cry when i'm tired or during like an emotional part of a movie/when music hits Too Good, but as far as having a good sob fest when i'm having a shitty day or smth, i can feel what i would feel when i would want to/start to cry before but literally my body will not produce tears lmfao

like unfortunately i'm not friends with any mtf ppl going through hormone therapy so i can't give anything more detailed than that :/ but i imagine that estrogen probably has the opposite effect wrt crying

but these are JUST patterns again. youre probably in DEEP when you start headcanoning your oc's hormone balance lmfao, but u kno. there are women who really just Naturally with much higher testosterone levels than others, there are women with pcos (7% of women from what i just looked up!) that increases male hormone levels, and then there's also all the effects that come with menopause. so take this with a grain of salt bc its still much more important to write diverse women & have them have independent goals and so-on like someone else said earlier, but i just mean to mention that hormones hit different lmfao

 

[Spookkat]

I just remembered an article I read a while ago, and I think it would be a helpful read.

(Ads warning: They're a little annoying, but not the worst I've seen?)
Ways Female Characters Are (Still) Badly Written - Springhole.net

 

[Jet]

CecilDMMasters while women can have any number of personality traits, you do have to acknowledge the differences if you want believable characters. I'm not saying that outliers don't exist, but they are outliers. I guess this is RPN though, which means a small amount of characters so having outliers is fine because you're not making a huge cast. However if you're writing a big cast in a traditional writing piece and every woman is hella aggy like a marine it'd stress reader relation. You are right that people can exhibit any trait but there's a reason why 90% of violent offenders are men and something like 70-80% of early childhood majors are women. Biology plays a huge role in who people are, some people operate outside of that comfortably, others operate within. Also, women characters can have mostly "female" traits with one or two "male traits" that are extremely important. Case in point

​

Subtle, tactful, strong mother-hood drive, soft-spoken, never got violent herself (done through proxies), classic feminine appearance, straight, but also hyper dominant lol. All the classic female traits and then BOOM, the biggest one for her role in the plot is classic "male" hyperdominance drive to climb and straddle the hierarchy, and I think that's the beauty of it. She's a woman who is shitting on men at their own game, not a Stannis reskin.

Pine I like that post & think it highlights this stuff quite well from an angle I've never considered but yeah that makes sense. Women don't really understand (for the most part) the overwhelming urge to beat the shit out of someone that civilized men have to fight off from time to time. Or the annoying, ever present "weight" below the belt (So present that Socrates once thanked his health for allowing him to reach old age so that he could live free of it )

 

[Spookkat]

Women don't really understand (for the most part) the overwhelming urge to beat the shit out of someone that civilized men have to fight off from time to time.

Haha. That's not true.

 

[LadybirdMooch]

im not sure if someone has said this already, but throw stereotypes out the window and focus on creating a character you actually vibe with and tack gender on at the end. most of my characters resemble me in a way and i'm a female. i create male characters based around the plot and what type of person i think would fit the plot but also my own writing style.

i don't have a whole bunch of stuff to say but i agree with everyone else: throw stereotypes out the window and tack on a gender at the end, but create a character you would really enjoy playing or writing.

 

[CecilDMMasters]

Haha. That's not true.

Yeah, know a guy that ate parking lot because he tried to argue when his wife served him divorce papers. Woman can be just as violent as men. As mentioned I knew a prison nurse. after hanging out with her I had to go home and play some Fallout just to get the level of violence I heard out of my head. I hope that place never has a breakout.

Literally no stereotype is set in stone and no one should ever feel the need to adhere to them in either real life or fiction. Make a character you love and that should be that.

 

[ashwynne]

While it's true that stereotypes are generalizations I think it's important to remember that characters (and people) who fit those stereotypes exist and are perfectly acceptable too. Prisons literally contain the worst of the worst, they're not an accurate sample of the population as a whole. No one is saying (or should say) that women can't be as violent as men, but statistically they aren't. Ergo, female characters that are soft, gentle, timid, shy, etc. etc. are just as valid as female characters that break the stereotypes.

There ARE biological features of men and women that predispose them towards certain behaviours (hormones in particular, as mentioned) and cause them to have differing experiences of the world. It doesn't mean we *have* to follow biological predispositions (because, obviously, not everyone does) but it also doesn't mean there's anything wrong with women (or men) that do fall into those stereotypical patterns.

Just something to keep in mind. Everyone has preferences for their characters (both female and male) and how they behave. Some people only like to write women/men that break traditional stereotypes, other people prefer exploring those stereotypical roles. Neither one is bad as both types of people exist and fiction is the perfect place to explore them. Don't let anyone pigeon-hole you into writing female characters in only one way.

 

[Pine]

Biology plays a huge role in who people are, some people operate outside of that comfortably, others operate within.

while i DID bring up hormones i do want to be clear that i don't think all those aforementioned statistics can be chalked up to biology. yes it's much easier for men to gain muscles and i Did mention feeling a greater capacity for anger and i DO think women have more of a propensity towards caretaking esp towards infants bc we're social mammals and our babies have a longass gestation period, but as i mentioned in my first post, female socialization is a bitch, and so is patriarchy.

not 2 be a beta white knight cuck . . .. lol . . . . . . BUT
a lot of those statistical differences imo can be easily chalked up to male privilege and women by and large existing as a marginalized group.

men's unruly behavior is more easily dismissed as "boys will be boys," whereas for women you can get the comment of how making a disruption is "unladylike," and historically speaking they could be diagnosed with hysteria and probably other shit. "boys will be boys" but women aren't allowed to go apeshit feral without being perceived as "less than a woman" or otherwise be classified as mentally ill.

(white western) women are arguably set up to work more in humanities than in something like stem. you're fed these images of nurses as women, and half the time you see men as nurses in media it's as a gag. teachers are women, and the idea of women as caretakers/housewives "makes sense" to translate into schools, where they continue to watch over children and clean and what not.

women have to be more careful because they're expected to partner with men, but women will hear all about sexual and domestic violence from men at a young age. yes women can be toxic & abusive partners, but i don't think cismen are cautioned the same way i was about how men will take (sexual) advantage & guilt or otherwise push sex onto me when i was still in elementary school

when you grow up in a hostile environment like that, you tend to be more Aware of subtle signs like that. men are, generally speaking, in a position of privilege where they don't have to worry as much about body language. if you get in a scrap with ur bro, you'll probably feel more comfortable that you can make it out of there alive, or at least not seriously injured. women usually don't have that luxury. it's a paradox that men, which you're supposed to form the closest bond with, can just as easily become your greatest & most intimate tormentor

and like obviously women aren't CONSTANTLY thinking about this and CONSTANTLY bemoaning existing in this hostile environment. but i think even the least self-aware women will absorb this on some level as they age. so while i do think this is stuff that should be kept in mind for writing historical fiction, modern/realistic fiction etc, this doesn't necessarily apply to fantasy worlds/aus/other species where gender roles could have played out differently.

and of course there's nothing wrong if a female character performs more traditional femininity like ashwynne was saying, but i personally am a BIG thinker that environment is so much more important than biology in this case

i do like the point u made though about a large cast of characters vs the smaller cast you'd usually see on rpn. and i WILL say that i never understood beer bellies until i learned about male-pattern fat distribution (nor did i know shit about male-pattern baldness or how much grooming/upkeep facial hair takes ugh lmao). personally, even though i talked abt having More Anger, i still don't have any Serious impulses to pummel someone, and that's probably the female socialization POPPING lol

 

[double-double]

I don't feel gender changes much - for me. The first time I roleplayed a male I thought it would be weird. Nope not at all. Exactly the same. Try to steer clear of being overly emotional and crying or whatever. Just (in my case) stay in character. I don't think it matters irl gender or character gender. Just roleplay. Haha.

Goodluck.

 

[Uriels-Fire]

I've never really had an issue or thought it was all that hard to write men, but think I can attribute that to my start doing fan roleplays where I already had an idea of what the man in question should act like, because I was familiar with the character and their personality and motivations and I wasn't just making everything up as I went. Also another factor that probably helped me learn to write for the other sex was that I consumed a lot of media where the point of view characters were male. It's exposure and practice that makes it easier when writing about something that you aren't or just don't personally have experience with being/doing. There aren't necessarily traits that you should add, or things that you should leave out. There is no set in stone guide to what you must or must not do to write a well-rounded woman, but there are ways you can do it better and maybe avoid weird pitfalls. It's more about patterns that show up than what you do with any one particular character, and I think if you really want advice, the best I can give you is this:


Step one is to seek advice and information, preferably from people who actually are what your character is.
This is what you're doing now, which is the bare minimum if you want to portray people who are a part of a group/demographic that exists in the real world that you are not a part of in a thoughtful, "real" way. In this instance, other good moves would be looking to women in your life and the women around you. Consider their behaviors and mannerisms, and who they are as people. Look to women in works of fiction too, preferably ones written by women or by a predominantly female writing crew if they come from TV or movies, and see what they're like. Look for what criticisims women make about different portrayals of women in fiction. What do women hold up as good portrayals of women in fiction? What do women have to say about their experiences living in the world as a woman? Listen, learn, consider, and apply.


Step two is to remember that people are fundamentally people no matter who or what we are.
A man is a a man and a woman is a woman, and these are different experiences and that should not be forgotten just for the sake of "lol do whatever everyone is the same, same standards apply to everyone regardless" because that's not true. Women face different societal pressures than men and there are different expectations, in some cases more strongly enforced or ridged than in others depending on time/location/setting, and socialization and biology definitely have an impact on how people behave to varying degrees-- but men and women are both human and have the same fundamental capacity for expression and emotion, and can have goals, interests, backgrounds and upbringings of all kinds that contribute to who they are beyond just being a member of their sex/gender. There may be patterns and averages, and things that are more common with women over men and vice versa, but masculinity and femininity are a spectrum and few people fall hard into one absolute or the other. Everyone is an individual, and no two people are exactly alike even if they're both a part of one or more demographic. There's more that defines people than any one particular trait. Sure it's A thing, but it's not THE thing. For instance...

Sure Mary is a woman, but maybe she's also a wife and mother of three, is soft spoken, works for a big law firm, is originally from rural Alaska, runs a true crime blog, and she wanted to be a dancer, but had to pick a new direction for her life after an injury that left her paralyzed from the waist down?
Sure Angie is a woman, but maybe she's also half Vietnamese and a full time student, has changed her major seven times, is very eager and always speaks her mind, is really scared of bugs, spends hours watching makeup tutorials, is a confirmed flat-earther and thinks that Spielberg directed the moon landing, and would love nothing more than to be a pro stunt driver because she's actually a huge adrenaline junkie?
Sure Dora is a woman, but maybe she's also a hobbit, a skilled artisan and a goldsmith, has a a secret love for reading trashy romance novels, is a terrible pessimist who can complain like it's nobody's business, and she wants to travel and learn new techniques to improve her trade?
All women, but they're different. I hope that serves as a fair example of what I'm trying to say with this point.


Step three is to consider your own biases, acknowledge them, and then change your approach where necessary.
Do you find yourself putting female characters into the same kinds of roles over and over again? Do they all tend to share similar appearances? Very similar hobbies and interests? Similar goals? Do you tend to use the same tropes in their stories a lot? Do they all have similar professions? Are you only creating/writing female characters that line up with what the cultural messages you've been exposed and to about women, their roles, behaviors, appearances, and aspirations should be? Are you only creating/writing female characters who fit a specific mold that you personally find attractive/appealing to you as a man? Are your female characters punished for not conforming with either your personal tastes or the standards your culture sets for women, and does the narrative portray this as being a positive thing? Why do you treat female characters you write for the way you do, and how does it differ from how you treat your male characters? Take a step back and think about it. Really think and look at the patterns that show up in your writing. If you think there may be a problem with your portrayal of women, or you're consistently getting feedback that's telling you there's an issue, or even if you see criticism of other men's portrayals of women that are very similar to your own, refer back to step one and try again. Doing something sexist or creepy isn't the end of the world if you learn what your mistake was and quit making it.


That's the basic outline for my advice to you. It's kind of one of those things you have to learn by actively doing and putting it to practice. We all have things we like or don't like and character tropes we might repeat often, but it's good to look at what you're doing and ask yourself why you do that, why you like it, if you even like it at all or it's just what's familiar to you, and where it's coming from. A one off thing can usually just be a one off thing, but when it becomes a pattern it's worth looking into. Personally I find a common pitfall for male writers in roleplay is that they tend to do this thing where they make a point of describing all their female characters in a far more sexualized manner than they do their male characters in situations that are decidedly nonsexual and their attractiveness is of no relevance to the current situation. Most men I've written with have done this to varying degrees of severity, it's kind of a groaner for me.

Research, put it to practice, self-examine and actually listen to feedback. That's the quick and dirty of it. Happy Tuesday.

 

[D. Rex]

Looking for advice on creating/writing female characters to make them seem "real' ish." Is doing that even possible for us lowly guys to fathom? Do you the women roleplayers out there have trouble creating realistic male characters? I've only created one female character in my whole life, I started by just imagining a person as a blank slate then just adding "female" at the end. I'm sure it can't be that simple, what am I missing? What are some realistic female traits that should be added, or better yet cliches' left out? Feel free to answer this post however you see fit, thanks!

I would say it really is that simple! Your character can be anything you desire, and personalities and traits are as varied as any individual in the real world. From macho jock and ditzy blonde to stay at home fathers and female soldiers. And every shade in between!

I would argue that any combination of traits and quirks could fit as male or female. But here is the kicker! It comes with varying levels of cringe. But that too is reliant on purpose, perspective, and relativity. All dependent on the tone and themes of the rp.

Personally, I love using tropes, cliches, archetypes, and all that jazz. I find them to be a great tool to build a character. Gender stereotypes, while I don't use as often, can be useful too. But consider these as tool and building blocks, and not as a defining character feature. It also makes your character a lot easier to explain than writing a complex summary lol.

It really helps that most players here are brilliant people. Most are highly literate and many understand the principles, methods, and ways of roleplay in general. And to that end, they are also very understanding and helpful.

So you dont really need to try hard or stress out over making a character "feel" female or male, or real or fake. It's not a crime to do so, but it can be noticable. Just as noticible when people actively avoid using tropes or stereotypes.

Also, dont shun idealism because it is idealism. But dont stand out for the sake of standing out. A physical description of the body is largely unimportant. If I were to say, "a tall, well built, female. Armored in silver mail with short black hair and amber eyes. Her arms are heavily scarred from years of fighting. " I would wager an image would pop into your head, even without me explicitly detailing every nook and cranny of her body. And it works just as effectively with male and female characters. The strategic vaguery of it has the added benefit of letting the other players interpret visually the character to their own sensibilities.

Lastly. Fun trumps all. Your fun and that of others. Use everything of your character to that end. And that with imagination and creative writing, anything can be made to work. The only worthless character is one you don't have fun playing, and one that isnt fun to play with.




One more thing! The more you write a gender that isnt your own, the easier it will become. It is common for the first time to be a bit awkward. But dont fret! Use it as a learning experience. Find out what works and doesnt work, look at it and see what you need to work on. And learn from watching other characters, and how they interact and behave.

One of the best things about roleplay, is that is the content that matters. The worlds our characters inhabit are here, and so is what they do, that matters more. Who we are on the other side of the screen is irrelevant. Play for fun, play what feels right, and dont worry so much.

 

[Simon_Hawk]

Lastly. Fun trumps all. Your fun and that of others. Use everything of your character to that end. And that with imagination and creative writing, anything can be made to work. The only worthless character is one you don't have fun playing, and one that isnt fun to play with.

Oh yeah, I forgot about having fun while worrying about everything lol, thanks for the reminder! Haha

Now you have me wondering about the amber eyed warrior clad in silver mail

 

[Purr]

Heya Simon_Hawk ! I agree with D.'s post all the way. =)

For me, it's all about being true to the story - and being true to the story means being true to the characters. So how do you be true to the characters? By knowing them.

Gender is just one of many ingredients that makes the character realistic. I go with what feels right. Some of my characters are men because they would not work as women. And the reverse is also true. And if the character doesn't feel right, it's probably not worth writing about.

Let me use one of my own as an example for you. Meet Gabriela De la Rosa. She's part-alien, part-Hispanic, and all fun! In her background, you'll read an interview I created for her. That's where I found her voice. The more time I put into my characters, the more I get to know them. And the same goes for playing them.

So, I recommend keeping at it until the character feels right regardless of which gender they are. Some of my characters have taken only a matter of days for me to create. Others years. But I tend to have the most fun with the ones I've spent the most time with. In time, they'll tell you what they are. =) When they start talking, don't get in the way. Just listen.

That's all I've got for now. Have fun with it, Simon!

Honor and fun,
Dann =)