Do Player vs Player fighting Roleplays work without a combat system?

[2SEATER]

I had an idea for a roleplay in which the core action is Player vs Player combat; sort of like a tournament type deal. However, this obviously brings up the issue of how said combat is carried out. Unfortunately I have no knowledge of how dice games work, so that's out of the question, and I'm not sure there are any non-dice combat systems. This leaves me with regular paragraph fighting, which can be slightly problematic. This sort of fighting can work in RPs where fights are a) not the main focus and b) irregular. However, in a RP like I have in mind I'm not so sure.


In a perfect world everyone would work together to create an engaging story, but we all know everyone is attached to their characters and obviously wants them to be focus, which is completely understandable; no one wants to see their character shoved to the side.


So I was just wondering if anyone knew any combat systems, any tips for regular paragraph fighting or if I should just abort the idea. Thanks!

 

[Thinslayer]

On the contrary! Freeform combat is the best kind. I hate dice combat. The key to making it work is for each combatant to respect the storyline and each other's virtual space. To put this another way, players need to *attempt* actions against their opponents, never *do* things autonomously, and the results of the combat need to fit the storyline. It's not as impartial as a dice system, but it arguably works better.

 

[2SEATER]

On the contrary! Freeform combat is the best kind. I hate dice combat. The key to making it work is for each combatant to respect the storyline and each other's virtual space. To put this another way, players need to *attempt* actions against their opponents, never *do* things autonomously, and the results of the combat need to fit the storyline. It's not as impartial as a dice system, but it arguably works better.

I'd agree with that. I haven't played using dice, but I'd say that 'freeform' allows for more creativity and expression. My issue, though, is that the idea of my roleplay is that it's sort of a fighting show, where players are actively trying to win something, such as a trophy, money, a title or whatever I decide to make the McGuffin. I think I'm going to try this though, and just hope that everyone realizes it's just a roleplay. Anyway thanks for responding, you've actually helped me quite a bit.

 

[GasMaskie]

As long as PvP doesn't turn into the .gif above where both players just end up dodging every single attack against each other, freeform can work. In the case of a competitive RP, it's hard to prevent something like this from happening as a player's main focus will be winning as a loss will carry some sort of negative repercussion regardless of how serious the competition is. While the example above is ludicrous, a situation like that can still happen even if the rules keep characters balanced. Forcing players to communicate with each other to decide the outcome of a match ahead of time or making sure the tournament aspect isn't the main part of the RP and allowing the defeated to still participate in the RP's storyline are possible solutions to this outcome.

 

[Saturnity]

On the contrary! Freeform combat is the best kind. I hate dice combat. The key to making it work is for each combatant to respect the storyline and each other's virtual space. To put this another way, players need to *attempt* actions against their opponents, never *do* things autonomously, and the results of the combat need to fit the storyline. It's not as impartial as a dice system, but it arguably works better.

To add on to these great points: You can't allow participants to control other players actions/reactions in combat. I know this is a general unspoken rule of roleplaying, however, it's especially important in combat between two players. Not only is it imbalanced and unfair to control another player's fighter during a battle, it's proper etiquette, as not applying this rule can trigger some angry OOC fights, and potentially sabotage the entire roleplay. Allow the players to have control of the fight, but learn to be able to anticipate and respond to potential issues before they destroy your story. Combat is something that needs to be more closely monitored than most other aspects of roleplay due to its competitive nature, so taking control is super important. =)

 

[2SEATER]

I think I can make this work. I just need to make a few rules, encourage the players to communicate and put emphasis on realism. Thanks for the help you guys, really appreciate it!

 

[Idea]

While I agree with what was said above, I think there is a more prominent need to make non-system fights work, however, it is something can only be achieved by the roleplayers themselves and can`t be placed on a thread without the GM imposing himself on everyone`s roleplay: Realism.


By this I don`t mean realism as in the realistic genre. I mean, a player will have to think, can your "character really dodge this"? "Did I just do this action because it should happen or because I felt like making it happen?". Of course, everyone enjoying themselves is a good thing, and something to seek, but if everyone does everything exactly as they would wish it to happen, then nobody is gonna get what they want done.


To show the results, I can tell that character`s who are faster are becoming more and more numerous while characters of sheer physical strength are losing it. Why? Can you can always dodge with a faster character, but if you hit someone with a character of extreme physical strength, 99% of the times, the strength of the blow amounts to nothing in the fight, cause people aren`t applying the realistic consequences. This is limiting to everyone`s options and makes fights quite boring. Nobody joins a fight in an rp (as a rule of thumb) seriously considering what will happen, or that they may loose, which is a shame,

 

[White Masquerade]

Heya Trip. I'm super optimistic but realistic too, so I'm going to say that you abort the idea. Free-form fighting works in books, but not role-plays. There are a few things working against you here.

• One, is that there are other people writing along with you (Book vs. RP); this doesn't need to be explained.
  
• Two, is that it is a competition role-play. Like GasMaskie (hey ( )) was saying, when there is something on the line, most times courtesy goes out the window.
  
• Three, is that this is RPN. This community has a WIDE variety of role-players registered, so it will be difficult to find those extremely-mature role-players, you can free-form combat with. They are here, I've met a few, it's just that they can't find each other with so many different genres, length requirements, and RPs on the site. Mature player 1 may not be into the RP Mature Player 2 is creating. <---This is why you won't find a big group of mature players here to do what you want.
  
• Four, if you have a lot of people in this RP, free-form won't work. Too many voices with their own line of thinking how a situation should go. <--- This is the EXACT reason why combat systems were even made in the first place. These systems leave no room for personal interpretation. Free-form battle is fine for 1x1s or 1x1x1s, but anymore more than that and you're asking for a headache.
  

I am not stopping you from doing your RP, just saying it won't come out how you want it to in your head. You can either go through the motions and experience it not working out yourself (which is not a bad thing to do), or take my advice and think of something else.


I don't like dice either. I hate dice. Makes me nauseous. My suggestion to you, would be to create your own system. It's going to be a lot of trial and error and sometimes you'll feel like you have no idea what you're doing, but keep trying to figure something out. It'll be worth it when you catch onto something good. If someone tells you you're dumb for doing so and not just using dice, don't worry. They're just being close-minded. If the person who made dice was teased out of making dice, there'd be no dice systems for people to tease you about today. See how funny that is?


So I encourage you to create some kind of system.

 

[Thinslayer]

The trouble with freeform combat is that it's competitive. Aside from that facet, it's just like any other RP element - it takes your skill as a writer to properly implement. The more skilled you are, the more you appreciate actions and consequences. When your opponent attacks you, a skilled writer knows his character's space and abilities, reacts realistically, and tries to make the outcome improve the story. An unskilled writer might try to preserve his character at all costs, or perhaps just doesn't have a good mental picture of the combat space.


I once experimented with taking out the life-or-death nature from competitive combat, and it yielded positive results. Players like to keep playing, so if they can engage in combat and come out of it alive, you'll have a better chance of encouraging a fair match.


Otherwise, as a rule of thumb, use freeform if your players seem mature and able to write well. Use a structured/dice system if your players can only produce one-liners and don't have their grammer down.

 

[Saturnity]

If I may add one more thought, you can design a number based system without focusing around dice. As an example, I've been trying to come up with a dice-free combat system for quite a while that's action based. In the system there are stats which players allocate points, and those stats provide a certain number of limited actions. It's not complete, but I think it's an interesting way to approach fair combat without relying on luck of dice rolls, while also testing the skill of the player.


((E.g. Players are assigned 5 points during character creation to apply to their stats. These points designate the number of actions allowed for that particular stat per post, and each stat has unique actions. Let's use generic RPG terms for the stats:


Strength - Determines Lift, Throw, Melee, etc.


Endurance - Determines Run, Block, Carry, etc.


Speed - Determines Sprint, Dodge, Feint.


This system limits what characters can do in the course of a post, based on their choice for their stats, while balancing them. My example is very generic, and is far from a complete system, but could serve as a reference or baseline, and is not too complicated to understand, so long as your players are skilled enough to follow it.))


I don't think it's impossible to manage a diceless combat system at all, you just have to think of ways outside the box that will help you micromanage without diminishing player choice and creativity. It will be hard, but I think whether or not you succeed, it's a learning experience.

 

[2SEATER]

Cheers everyone, I think I'm going to take my time with this. Realism will be a big part, I'll just have to hope I can entice a few mature players. I am probably going to make a really simple system too, not too many stats, maybe limit the number of dodges and counters. I may put my system up for feedback when I've worked out what I need. Thanks again!

 

[Saturnity]

To add on to my previous post, having some sort of system (or at least rulebook) in place of "pure" free form will ensure fewer members. While this may sound like a bad thing, what I'm really saying is that it will weed out the lazier writers who are not interested in following rules, in addition to newer roleplayers who need more experience before they try complicated or combat-heavy RPs. I don't like saying that RPs should have a filter on the types of players they include, but unfortunately, when it comes to PvP, this is very important. A certain level of maturity and experience is necessary, at least in my opinion.


That's all I can think of, there have been a lot of fantastic hints and ideas in this thread, so I'm sure you can figure something out~ Good luck! It'll be interesting to see what you can do with this concept =)

 

[2SEATER]

To add on to my previous post, having some sort of system (or at least rulebook) in place of "pure" free form will ensure fewer members. While this may sound like a bad thing, what I'm really saying is that it will weed out the lazier writers who are not interested in following rules, in addition to newer roleplayers who need more experience before they try complicated or combat-heavy RPs. I don't like saying that RPs should have a filter on the types of players they include, but unfortunately, when it comes to PvP, this is very important. A certain level of maturity and experience is necessary, at least in my opinion.
That's all I can think of, there have been a lot of fantastic hints and ideas in this thread, so I'm sure you can figure something out~ Good luck! It'll be interesting to see what you can do with this concept =)

I don't think I want an exceptional amount of players anyway. And I think having a system of some sort may even draw in a few more experienced players anyway. Thanks again!