World Building Dark Fantasy World-Building

[Shireling]

I think the intent is to keep it simple enough to be approachable. Particularly given the nature of the setting, its sort of seems as if most nobility are somewhat similar in station and wealth, though there is certainly some disparity. Hard to accumulate substantially more wealth or govern larger swaths of land when everything is awful. 


Regarding warriors - while perhaps an oversimplification in realistic purposes, its an adequate summary of the sort of characters people would want to play. No one, for example, has any interest in playing a pikeman - being a pikeman was patently horrible, required little "combat training" (relied much more heavily on sheer discipline and being able to hold formation, frankly), and, in terms of character classes, a pikeman wouldn't even count as a warrior. 

We also have to remember that there is no real history of military tradition. There hasnt been a real war in hundreds of years, and generally armies are geared towards fighting nature. Some of the City Guard wield pikes and halberds to fight off large beasts, but they're generally equipped with longswords, bastard swords, and maces, and the sergeants may have a large weapon like a claymore or a war axe. 


Vudu is also correct when he says that there isn't much of a difference between the nobles. There isn't a king, so there isn't really a hierarchy of nobility. 

 

[_Line 213]

As for the classes, I think we could start with these:


-Warrior (we all know what this is, your run of the mill guy with a sword)


-Marksman (good with a longbow or crossbow)


-Caster (a spell-caster)


-Healer (duh)

Here's an idea, taking a page or two out of D&D in order to supplement more classes that would befit a common man.


In order to prevent magic from becoming the situational "be-all and end-all" that it often devolves into in magical settings, whether one wishes for it to or not, I'd suggest that we split magic between four classes.


The first, whatever our Caster and Healer classes are, do "small scale" (mechanically speaking) magic as often as they want, similar to D&D's Sorcerer class. If dealt with correctly, they can do really neat things without absolutely breaking the game.


On the other end of the spectrum, we have their counterparts, Alchemist and Potionmaster, who can only do a certain amount of important actions a day / week, but the difference is that their abilities are leaps and bounds above the however-many-times-you-want spells available to Caster and Healer.


The stylistic difference between the two groups would be something like this:


There's an Alchemist and a Caster in the same party. The party comes across three bandits. The Alchemist can only carry six chemical beakers at a time until he can sit own to make more mixtures, so it might be a good idea for him to save them for a pinch. The caster fireballs them all no problem, and the party moves on. Later on, they come across ten bandits. This might be a challenging fight for the group at large, so the Alchemist might use one of his chemical vials, unleashing a poisonous gas that kills the majority of the opposition.


There's a Healer and a Potionmaster in the same party. Several members of the party get a little beat up from the fight with three bandits. The Potionmaster can only carry six potion bottles at a time, so it might be best if the Healer topped everyone off. They do so, and everyone continues on. Meanwhile, after the party finishes off the fight with ten bandits, one of the members ends up critically injured. It might take more effort than would be necessary on the part of the Healer to deal with an injury that grievous, so the Potionmaster might expend a bottle or two of potions in order to deal with the more crippling injury.


If we wanted to separate the two groups further, we could even experiment with some of the tried-and-true strategic variations, such as the Single Target vs. AoE divide, or Over Time vs. Flat Bonus divide, or Straight Damage vs. Status Affection divide.

 

[Vudukudu]

Was contemplating something - would there be an organization that spends all its time creature hunting and selling the various bits and pieces of beasties to fund themselves? Given the nature of the setting, I don't think it'd be sensible for it to be a "good-hearted endeavor." 


I'm sort of picturing it this way:


Organization is composed primarily of convicts, outcasts, or volunteers from all backgrounds. They receive some basic combat training and "monster education" and then get sent into the wilderness to kill monsters. Convicts who join are branded, so that if they flee, anyone who encounters them knows to kill them on principle. Organization funds itself by selling reagents to mages, skins and meat to towns, etc. 

 

[Vudukudu]

Complex class system, because apparently people want that. I'ma get lazier and lazier the longer this goes on.


Warrior: Men and women of martial talent, often trained in a variety of tactics.


Guardian: Typical sword and shield, highly defensive, heavy armor, low agility.  


Champion: Two handed weaponry, highly offensive, heavy armor, low agility.


Berserker: Dual wield or two handed, supremely offensive, light armor, high agility. 


Fighter: Single handed weaponry, moderate offensive and defensive, medium armor, medium agility.


Marksman: Ranged combatant types.


Hunter: Bow, high agility, light armor, moderate combat, moderate survival talents.


Archer: Bow, high agility, medium/light armor, high combat, low survival talents.


Casters: Magicky folks.


Elementalists: Fire/earth/air/water/etc


Necromancers: Mastery over the undead.


Mesmerists: Illusions and shenanigans.


Evoker: Spirit summoning


Specialists: 


Potion-master: Relies on a variety of pre-made potions which often require complex rituals or processes to prepare.


Healer: Adept in the natural and magical brands of healing, and often coupled with an awareness of just what it takes to kill.


Quick and dirty, likely in need of some more detail, but seems to entertain the sense of diversity I'm seeing a bit of desire for. Left out transmuting and scrivening as class options, because frankly, they aren't really "character magicks" like elementalism and necromancy are. 

 

[Blitzer]

However, I would protest that swords be used more often than spears. Spears a much more efficient weapon in killing an animal. Check history. Just think about it. 


Any way, I elementalist should be under casters. I feel like that would be a natural gift, that requires no spells. Similar to the controlling of the elements in Avatar. If you wanted to I could flesh out the classes. I love doing that. I've studied fantasy armies and tactics. 


The idea sounds interesting. They would naturally be assigned to impossible situations or used as fodder even if many of them were skilled. Probably outcast nobles, natural ability users, and criminal former military people would make up the elite of the group. 


I have a system idea. However this is one on one. It would be a skill based system. Each skill advanced from 1-100% would have specific affects. They could be classified in one on one or group attack. Its more advanced, but not to complex. It also allows steady progressions. 

 

[Vudukudu]

Spears are far more useful for beast slaying, no argument there. All the same, they're not an "adventurer weapon" in the sense of fantasy rpgs. Far too difficult to use in a large number of scenarios as an individual weapon. IMO. Plus, lame. There's a reason heroes never use spears. 


Makes total sense for your typical folks and guard to have though. 



As far as elementalists, I think Shireling's already decided the mode of magic. 

 

[Grey]

If I may, a spear is cheaper to manufacture and requires less training to use effectively than a sword, and with training spears of varying lengths (especially partnered with a dagger) can be quite effective individual weapons. I'm basing that on some historians and re-enactors I know who work mainly with 11th century warfare, though.


This sounds like a setting where adventurers might have a crossbow in one hand for a single shot, dirk in the other, and short spear across their back, to be honest. Short, nasty, brutish combats. Mechanically the percentile system employed by Call of Cthulhu might fit what appears to be the intended tone better than a D&D-alike, but I've always thought D&D was ill-suited to narrative synergy and anything with a dark tone especially. Classless and skill-based rather than class-and-level, for broader character diversity, might serve well here. 


Though in fairness, I've been working on a similar system for a tonally similar setting for years so I'll be biased. 


Just throwing it out there; I know I'm not really involved in this. I just like to encourage people to try systems that aren't D&D clones. 

 

[Vudukudu]

Grey's got some points, as he usually does. Equipment is probably going to resemble Witcher type gear, not to poach too heavily. 


Spears would be common across your average soldiery. Easy to use, little training required. Peasant weapon, so to speak. 


Swords, shields, etc. require some training and are more likely to appear in almost exclusively trained hands. Warriors by trade and adventuring types who need the versatility offered by differing weapons. 


Crossbows are the ranger equivalent of spears. Bows are the ranged equivalent of swords. 

 

[_Line 213]

Complex class system, because apparently people want that. I'ma get lazier and lazier the longer this goes on.


Warrior: Men and women of martial talent, often trained in a variety of tactics.


Guardian: Typical sword and shield, highly defensive, heavy armor, low agility.  


Champion: Two handed weaponry, highly offensive, heavy armor, low agility.


Berserker: Dual wield or two handed, supremely offensive, light armor, high agility. 


Fighter: Single handed weaponry, moderate offensive and defensive, medium armor, medium agility.


Marksman: Ranged combatant types.


Hunter: Bow, high agility, light armor, moderate combat, moderate survival talents.


Archer: Bow, high agility, medium/light armor, high combat, low survival talents.


Casters: Magicky folks.


Elementalists: Fire/earth/air/water/etc


Necromancers: Mastery over the undead.


Mesmerists: Illusions and shenanigans.


Evoker: Spirit summoning


Specialists: 


Potion-master: Relies on a variety of pre-made potions which often require complex rituals or processes to prepare.


Healer: Adept in the natural and magical brands of healing, and often coupled with an awareness of just what it takes to kill.


Quick and dirty, likely in need of some more detail, but seems to entertain the sense of diversity I'm seeing a bit of desire for. Left out transmuting and scrivening as class options, because frankly, they aren't really "character magicks" like elementalism and necromancy are. 

I'd suggest setting this up in the form of a derivative system, allowing for two different tiers of complexity depending on the whims of the GM and the players.


You start with "Classes," for lack of a better term:


-- Warrior. A man of blades and metal. Depending on the weapons they use, they can strike, cut, impale, or protect.


-- Marksman. The greatest range, and the most piercing weapons. They can do a lot of damage from very far away--as long as they hit.


-- Caster. Delving in more dangerous facets of life, Casters can bend reality to their will, often resulting in very strange effects.


-- Generalist. People of worldly means. Combining survival instincts with pedestrian magic and a dash of practicality, they fill in gaps with common tools.


Each class then has Derivatives, which sacrifice versatility for powerful situational advantages. The player can choose one as part of an advancement path:


-- Warrior becomes Guardian, Champion, Berserker, and Fighter.


-- Marksman becomes Hunter or Archer.


-- Casters become Archmages, Necromancers, Mesmerists, Evokers, or Priests.


-- Generalists become Potionmasters, Alchemists, Enchanters, or Rogues.


Base classes should be structured in such a way as to be competent and varied enough to play an entire game with, making Derivatives necessary only for those that wish for a harder game with more play options.

 

[Shireling]

Was contemplating something - would there be an organization that spends all its time creature hunting and selling the various bits and pieces of beasties to fund themselves? Given the nature of the setting, I don't think it'd be sensible for it to be a "good-hearted endeavor." 


I'm sort of picturing it this way:


Organization is composed primarily of convicts, outcasts, or volunteers from all backgrounds. They receive some basic combat training and "monster education" and then get sent into the wilderness to kill monsters. Convicts who join are branded, so that if they flee, anyone who encounters them knows to kill them on principle. Organization funds itself by selling reagents to mages, skins and meat to towns, etc. 

I like this idea, but I would characterize most of the people of the setting as "gritty" but not cruel. That being said, there might be a religious sect that objected to forcing convicts to risk their lives, as it would be akin to the death penalty, but overall I see it as likely a pretty likely solution that the people of the setting would take. They would send these hunters out while the City Guard hunkered behind the walls. They're upstanding citizens after all. 

Complex class system, because apparently people want that. I'ma get lazier and lazier the longer this goes on.


Warrior: Men and women of martial talent, often trained in a variety of tactics.


Guardian: Typical sword and shield, highly defensive, heavy armor, low agility.  


Champion: Two handed weaponry, highly offensive, heavy armor, low agility.


Berserker: Dual wield or two handed, supremely offensive, light armor, high agility. 


Fighter: Single handed weaponry, moderate offensive and defensive, medium armor, medium agility.


Marksman: Ranged combatant types.


Hunter: Bow, high agility, light armor, moderate combat, moderate survival talents.


Archer: Bow, high agility, medium/light armor, high combat, low survival talents.


Casters: Magicky folks.


Elementalists: Fire/earth/air/water/etc


Necromancers: Mastery over the undead.


Mesmerists: Illusions and shenanigans.


Evoker: Spirit summoning


Specialists: 


Potion-master: Relies on a variety of pre-made potions which often require complex rituals or processes to prepare.


Healer: Adept in the natural and magical brands of healing, and often coupled with an awareness of just what it takes to kill.


Quick and dirty, likely in need of some more detail, but seems to entertain the sense of diversity I'm seeing a bit of desire for. Left out transmuting and scrivening as class options, because frankly, they aren't really "character magicks" like elementalism and necromancy are. 

I like the general idea that's being put forth here, but there is no elemental magick. I know it's popular, but I hate it as a trope and we haven't really built our magickal system around elementalism. 

Spears are far more useful for beast slaying, no argument there. All the same, they're not an "adventurer weapon" in the sense of fantasy rpgs. Far too difficult to use in a large number of scenarios as an individual weapon. IMO. Plus, lame. There's a reason heroes never use spears. 


Makes total sense for your typical folks and guard to have though. 



As far as elementalists, I think Shireling's already decided the mode of magic. 

The reason I characterized some of the guards as having swords and maces is because not only do they have to occasionally fight criminals or bandits, but some of the monsters are small enough and fast enough that a polearm would be ineffective. Think about trying to swat at one of Vudu's facesucker tree-demons with a pike. Plus, undead will be common as well and they will require blunt force or slashing attacks to kill them, as just stabbing them with a spear wouldn't do much. Although the pikemen might stab them and pin them to the ground so a swordsman could hack their head off. 

I'd suggest setting this up in the form of a derivative system, allowing for two different tiers of complexity depending on the whims of the GM and the players.


You start with "Classes," for lack of a better term:


-- Warrior. A man of blades and metal. Depending on the weapons they use, they can strike, cut, impale, or protect,


-- Marksman. The greatest range, and the most piercing weapons. They can do a lot of damage from very far away--as long as they hit.


-- Caster. Delving in more dangerous facets of life, Casters can bend reality to their will, often resulting in very strange effects.


-- Generalist. People of worldly means. Combining survival instincts with pedestrian magic and a dash of practicality, they fill in gaps with common tools.


Each class then has Derivatives, which sacrifice versatility for powerful situational advantages. The player can choose one as part of an advancement path:


-- Warrior becomes Guardian, Champion, Berserker, and Fighter.


-- Marksman becomes Hunter or Archer.


-- Casters become Elementalists, Necromancers, Mesmerists, Evokers, or Priests.


-- Generalists become Potionmasters, Alchemists, or Enchanters.


Base classes should be structured in such a way as to be competent and varied enough to play an entire game with, making Derivatives necessary only for those that wish for a harder game with more play options.

I like this, generally, except there should probably be some non-magickal generalist tier-twos such as, perhaps, Burglars. 

 

[_Line 213]

I was about to roll "Rogue" in as a Generalist specialization actually, but then I was quoted.


I'll go ahead and do that anyway.


Also, I'd rename "Elementalist" to "Archmage," making it a "general DPS magic" option.

 

[Vudukudu]

I was about to roll "Rogue" in as a Generalist specialization actually, but then I was quoted.


I'll go ahead and do that anyway.


Also, I'd rename "Elementalist" to "Archmage," making it a "general DPS magic" option.

Went with elementalist as it was the first word to come to mind, but based on the earlier description of magic, Caster is what I intended, conceptually. Warmage / Tempest / Archmage all work in my book. 

 

[Vudukudu]

I like this idea, but I would characterize most of the people of the setting as "gritty" but not cruel. That being said, there might be a religious sect that objected to forcing convicts to risk their lives, as it would be akin to the death penalty, but overall I see it as likely a pretty likely solution that the people of the setting would take. They would send these hunters out while the City Guard hunkered behind the walls. They're upstanding citizens after all. 

Perhaps instead of making it a mandatory punishment, it could be an optional sentence? 


"You have been found guilty of murder. Your sentence is ten years imprisonment and labor, or four years among the Slayers. Your choice, convict?" 

 

[_Line 213]

Something I've been toying with without putting it on the initial idea breakdown is some sort of "Chirurgeon" or "Plague Doctor" class that sort of combines elements of a Rogue, Potionmaker, and Alchemist. They're not sneaky like a rogue, they lack the AoE potential of an Alchemist, and their healing is not as immediate or potent as that of a Potionmaker, but what they do have is a lot of powerful melee-range status affliction.


Whereas an Alchemist might open one of their vials to spread deadly vapors throughout an area, a Doctor would instead get into dueling range, and inject their draughts directly, causing more damage at the expense of having to get close while wearing light armor.


A bit of balancing would likely be required, but it may be an interesting idea if done correctly.

 

[Vudukudu]

To the audience: I'm gonna return my attention to the bestiary after tonight. Any sort of ideas / inspirations / "I want a wyvern, but not a wyvern" type things to say? 

 

[Shireling]

To the audience: I'm gonna return my attention to the bestiary after tonight. Any sort of ideas / inspirations / "I want a wyvern, but not a wyvern" type things to say? 

Try to be as original as you can be. Anything off the wall and crazy is appreciated, at least as a suggestion. 

 

[Vudukudu]

Try to be as original as you can be. Anything off the wall and crazy is appreciated, at least as a suggestion. 

Welp, time to get drunk and Hemingway this. 

 

[Shireling]

Something I've been toying with without putting it on the initial idea breakdown is some sort of "Chirurgeon" or "Plague Doctor" class that sort of combines elements of a Rogue, Potionmaker, and Alchemist. They're not sneaky like a rogue, they lack the AoE potential of an Alchemist, and their healing is not as immediate or potent as that of a Potionmaker, but what they do have is a lot of powerful melee-range status affliction.


Whereas an Alchemist might open one of their vials to spread deadly vapors throughout an area, a Doctor would instead get into dueling range, and inject their draughts directly, causing more damage at the expense of having to get close while wearing light armor.


A bit of balancing would likely be required, but it may be an interesting idea if done correctly.

They would definitely have plague doctors, from a practical perspective. 

 

[Shireling]

An idea for a monster; maybe you can do something with it. 


Hangman (Plur. "Hangmen") 


Hangmen are humanoid creatures with mottled pink or light brown skin standing roughly ten feet tall. Their tall, lanky bodies are topped with long, slender heads consisting of a large, central eye and two secondary eyes offset from the central one and slightly below it. Below their eyes, the creatures have no nose, but have a wide mouth containing rows of dagger-like teeth. 


Their arms are roughly three forths of the total height of their body and terminate in hooks formed of three, long and distorted fingers each sporting a short, sharp talon. Their torso is thin and elongated, and their legs are also thin, giving them the appearance of being off-balance and their signature tottering walk. Somewhat akin to an ape, much of their lower body, torso, and arms is covered in coarse hair, but their heads remain completely bald. 


Hangmen are predators that inhabit densely wooded areas and hunt in packs. They are, however, not particularly afraid of humans and will occasionally attack their settlements to poach their livestock. When engaged in combat, these creatures will attempt to grab their assailant by the neck and suspend them with their long arms, thus hanging them in a similar fashion to a hangman's noose. These creatures fear fire, and are susceptible to most forms of human weaponry. 


@Vudukudu

 

[Vudukudu]

An idea for a monster; maybe you can do something with it. 


Hangman (Plur. "Hangmen") 


Hangmen are humanoid creatures with mottled pink or light brown skin standing roughly ten feet tall. Their tall, lanky bodies are topped with long, slender heads consisting of a large, central eye and two secondary eyes offset from the central one and slightly below it. Below their eyes, the creatures have no nose, but have a wide mouth containing rows of dagger-like teeth. 


Their arms are roughly three forths of the total height of their body and terminate in hooks formed of three, long and distorted fingers each sporting a short, sharp talon. Their torso is thin and elongated, and their legs are also thin, giving them the appearance of being off-balance and their signature tottering walk. Somewhat akin to an ape, much of their lower body, torso, and arms is covered in coarse hair, but their heads remain completely bald. 


Hangmen are predators that inhabit densely wooded areas and hunt in packs. They are, however, not particularly afraid of humans and will occasionally attack their settlements to poach their livestock. When engaged in combat, these creatures will attempt to grab their assailant by the neck and suspend them with their long arms, thus hanging them in a similar fashion to a hangman's noose. These creatures fear fire, and are susceptible to most forms of human weaponry. 


@Vudukudu

Had something similar in mind. I'll probably end up making slight alterations to my own to distinguish them more, and include both. 


One thing I was considering - would you like the bestiary compiled as it it were a book? Written by _____ the Magicko-Zoologist, sort of written in a personal-ish manner? 

 

[_Line 213]

Had something similar in mind. I'll probably end up making slight alterations to my own to distinguish them more, and include both. 


One thing I was considering - would you like the bestiary compiled as it it were a book? Written by _____ the Magicko-Zoologist, sort of written in a personal-ish manner? 

World flavor considered, the person writing the text would probably consider themselves a Natural Philosopher.

 

[Shireling]

Had something similar in mind. I'll probably end up making slight alterations to my own to distinguish them more, and include both. 


One thing I was considering - would you like the bestiary compiled as it it were a book? Written by _____ the Magicko-Zoologist, sort of written in a personal-ish manner? 

World flavor considered, the person writing the text would probably consider themselves a Natural Philosopher.

What Line said. But yes. 

 

[Vudukudu]

What Line said. But yes. 

I'll set about rewriting what I've got to fit the flavor, then. 

 

[Shireling]

Here are the other religious orders other than the Almsgivers. I think four is good enough: 

Spoiler

The Penitents 


 


One of the major religious sects of the isle, the Order of the Penitents is a loose confederation of churches and missions that operate mostly in the northern areas of the island. 


 


To the Penitents, sin is both grave and unavoidable. In order to avoid damnation for misdeeds, daily repentance of sins is necessary. The Penitents have very little in the way of social and economic teachings that differ from the other sects, but their religious practices are much different. For one, their masses are almost completely dominated by silent prayer. They are one of the few sects that allow consummate marriages between priests and priestesses, and they retain a fairly substantial private army of Penitent Footknights. 


 


Most of the operation of the sect revolves around missions, self-containing religious communities built near towns to evangelize the area. The Penitents are one of the richer sects given that their footknights are routinely paid small fees to escort travellers on dangerous northern roads.


 


The Wayfarers 


 


The Order of the Wayfarers is one of the smaller religious orders comprised entirely of wandering monks who travel from town to town preaching. They believe that it is the place of the clergy to be the lowest of the low, going forth throughout the isle to spread the faith. Their vow of poverty is absolute, and they must rely on alms to survive. 


 


In order to ensure the Order survives, a monk will, from time to time, take on an apprentice who will eventually inherit his Wayfarer's Codex, a valuable text with information on all the virtues and vices of the island. These manuscripts are often centuries old, passed down through countless generations. The Order of the Wayfarers has no organized hierarchy, or permanent structure from which they minister. 


 


The Charismatics 


 


The Order of the Charismatics is, as one could imagine, one of the more public-friendly churches. Charismatic priests believe in a philosophy similar to the Gospel of Wealth, which makes them the preferred sect of the rich and the nobility. 


 


Lacking monasteries or abbeys, the Charismatics don't have much of a theological tradition and mostly borrow bits and pieces from other sects. 

 

[Blitzer]

Here are the other religious orders other than the Almsgivers. I think four is good enough: 

Spoiler

The Penitents 

 

One of the major religious sects of the isle, the Order of the Penitents is a loose confederation of churches and missions that operate mostly in the northern areas of the island. 

 

To the Penitents, sin is both grave and unavoidable. In order to avoid damnation for misdeeds, daily repentance of sins is necessary. The Penitents have very little in the way of social and economic teachings that differ from the other sects, but their religious practices are much different. For one, their masses are almost completely dominated by silent prayer. They are one of the few sects that allow consummate marriages between priests and priestesses, and they retain a fairly substantial private army of Penitent Footknights. 

 

Most of the operation of the sect revolves around missions, self-containing religious communities built near towns to evangelize the area. The Penitents are one of the richer sects given that their footknights are routinely paid small fees to escort travellers on dangerous northern roads.

 

The Wayfarers 

 

The Order of the Wayfarers is one of the smaller religious orders comprised entirely of wandering monks who travel from town to town preaching. They believe that it is the place of the clergy to be the lowest of the low, going forth throughout the isle to spread the faith. Their vow of poverty is absolute, and they must rely on alms to survive. 

 

In order to ensure the Order survives, a monk will, from time to time, take on an apprentice who will eventually inherit his Wayfarer's Codex, a valuable text with information on all the virtues and vices of the island. These manuscripts are often centuries old, passed down through countless generations. The Order of the Wayfarers has no organized hierarchy, or permanent structure from which they minister. 

 

The Charismatics 

 

The Order of the Charismatics is, as one could imagine, one of the more public-friendly churches. Charismatic priests believe in a philosophy similar to the Gospel of Wealth, which makes them the preferred sect of the rich and the nobility. 

 

Lacking monasteries or abbeys, the Charismatics don't have much of a theological tradition and mostly borrow bits and pieces from other sects. 
 

I'd love to enhance the religious orders. It would be kind of nice if specific bonuses were given for each religious orders.