World Building Dark Fantasy World-Building

[Vudukudu]

How about nobles get more money to start with, but their characters are less skilled, not as strong and adept because they don't work.

Was essentially the point to go for. I could make it more complex if desired, but I suppose considering this isn't likely going to be a dice roleplay, doing a more developed system probably isn't of much necessity. 

 

[Shireling]

Was essentially the point to go for. I could make it more complex if desired, but I suppose considering this isn't likely going to be a dice roleplay, doing a more developed system probably isn't of much necessity. 

Yes. I mean, dice role play people I would imagine are a bit more reliable but I have no experience with it. 

 

[Vudukudu]

I mean I could crank something out but I don't anticipate much dice usage. Anyhoo, I'll get back to monsters and such. 

 

[_Line 213]

I'd suggest looking at the system that GURPS uses for balancing money, which is actually really simple.


Basically the way that they go about it is that you have a point pool, and in addition to stats and skills and so on, you also buy "monetary status" or "good looks" and other such things with your point pool, meaning you can dump a bunch of points into wealth and sociability, but at the cost of being unable to buy as many stat bonuses or skill proficiencies.

 

[9Clockwork]

I don't think that's necessarily fair, many nobles during our real timeline were competent fighters, and id assume that would carry over here.

 

[Vudukudu]

Given the apparently feudal nature of things, the best equipped and most skilled combatants would likely be nobility. Only ones with access to training and such. Also had better nutrition, so overall better physical health. 


Unless this society is so overwhelmingly violent that most men are essentially required to do two years of mandatory military service just to stay alive. Which, given the grimdark, is quite possible. 

 

[_Line 213]

I don't think that's necessarily fair, many nobles during our real timeline were competent fighters, and id assume that would carry over here.

From a game standpoint, there's a very large gap between "fairness" and "realism," and "fun" and "balance."


Also, having to skip out on certain traits in order to put points into wealth doesn't necessarily mean that a character is going to end up woefully incompetent.

 

[Shireling]

Given the apparently feudal nature of things, the best equipped and most skilled combatants would likely be nobility. Only ones with access to training and such. Also had better nutrition, so overall better physical health. 


Unless this society is so overwhelmingly violent that most men are essentially required to do two years of mandatory military service just to stay alive. Which, given the grimdark, is quite possible. 

For most settlements, the main issues of military preparedness are fighting monsters, not other men. Although skirmishes are not infrequent. 


Most of the City Guard are lower or middle class volunteers (who also serve as the town police force) but their Sergeants are typically appointed nepotistically (a friend of the mayor, a son of the lord). Governmental systems differ greatly throughout the realm, as some towns have democratically elected mayors and sheriffs, while others are ruled by a lord. Typically, however, mayoral candidates are some form of nobility. It mostly depends on the main economic activity of the town. Farming communities are typically feudal, while mercantile communities, like the tradesmens' city-states of early modern Germany and Holland, are somewhat democratic. 


That being said, the some of the sons and daughters of nobleman are often trained in combat because they are expected to take on the role of sergeants in the City Guard. So Clock has a point. 

 

[Shireling]

However, it probably wouldn't be uncommon for the first son of the noble family to be a hardass and the rest be lazy fleshbags. 

 

[Vudukudu]

However, it probably wouldn't be uncommon for the first son of the noble family to be a hardass and the rest be lazy fleshbags. 

Would fit in with our own historical experience. First son was usually trained in a military and family administration role, second was typically provided an education, third was shipped off to a monastery. 

 

[_Line 213]

That being said, the some of the sons and daughters of nobleman are often trained in combat because they are expected to take on the role of sergeants in the City Guard. So Clock has a point. 

On a technical level then, wouldn't they not really have major access to their family's wider wealth?

 

[Shireling]

Would fit in with our own historical experience. First son was usually trained in a military and family administration role, second was typically provided an education, third was shipped off to a monastery. 

On a technical level then, wouldn't they not really have major access to their family's wider wealth?

May I propose a synthesis of balance and realism? Why not make it a matter of character class? People could choose the character class of Noble Firstborn. They would have better access to weapons, armor, and wealth but would have other drawbacks. Perhaps a low cap on charisma (because they're a snob) or low resistance to dark magick. 

 

[Vudukudu]

May I propose a synthesis of balance and realism? Why not make it a matter of character class? People could choose the character class of Noble Firstborn. They would have better access to weapons, armor, and wealth but would have other drawbacks. Perhaps a low cap on charisma (because they're a snob) or low resistance to dark magick. 

Would make sense. So are we going to opt for having a sort of "Character Creation process" then? 

 

[_Line 213]

I think we would need to know more about the actual system used at large before we can make that sort of decision.

 

[Vudukudu]

I think we would need to know more about the actual system used at large before we can make that sort of decision.

Could use development of it as a way to run potential social groups and such by Shireling. 

 

[Shireling]

On 1/24/2017 at 1:17 PM, _Line 213 said:



I think we would need to know more about the actual system used at large before we can make that sort of decision.




 

I agree, I'll just leave the idea floating out there. Before I go any further though, are there any edits that should be made to the armors? I basically made it so that at any point in time if I want to kill someone off, I can just shoot them in the neck with a crossbow.

 

[Vudukudu]

My realism cries out at the notion of plate armor. My fantasy side has no complaints. 

 

[Vudukudu]

Oh, and another thing on the note of armor -


It appears to leave very little options available for the lightly armored. Sort of goes straight from near-useless leathers to plate and mail, which doesn't leave much in the way of options for, say, an archer. Perhaps incorporate a brigandine of sorts? 

 

[Shireling]

Oh, and another thing on the note of armor -


It appears to leave very little options available for the lightly armored. Sort of goes straight from near-useless leathers to plate and mail, which doesn't leave much in the way of options for, say, an archer. Perhaps incorporate a brigandine of sorts? 

A brigandine is just a cloth or leather vest. I think that is adequately represented by the leather tunic, although I might change the leather tunic to a brigandine as a tunic is more like a shirt than a piece of body armor. 


Furthermore, bowmen of various types would probably carry a shield that they could hide behind. 


My idea was that, mostly, the characters might choose to buy cuirasses and helmets, because they would protect the most, while probably not opting for a full armor suit unless they're some kind of berserker type character. A full suit would be expensive. 


Note also that this doesn't account for any enchantments placed on the armor. 


I might also add the option between a morion and a full helmet. 

 

[Vudukudu]

A brigandine is just a cloth or leather vest. I think that is adequately represented by the leather tunic, although I might change the leather tunic to a brigandine as a tunic is more like a shirt than a piece of body armor. 


Furthermore, bowmen of various types would probably carry a shield that they could hide behind. 


My idea was that, mostly, the characters might choose to buy cuirasses and helmets, because they would protect the most, while probably not opting for a full armor suit unless they're some kind of berserker type character. A full suit would be expensive. 


Note also that this doesn't account for any enchantments placed on the armor. 


I might also add the option between a morion and a full helmet. 

I was thinking along the lines of the brigandines used to armor light infantry and archers that came with a pair of oblong metal plates on the chest. Is all up to your discretion, though. 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigandine

 

[Blitzer]

How about mail? Mail is effective against lesser crossbows and arrows usually. However its supremely weak against long bows and good crossbows. It won't splinter immediately from a weak blow and some good mail can withstand a hard sword blow no matter how good the sword is. Its not that expensive compared to full metal armor. It isn't that heavy. Armor actually isn't that heavy.  

 

[Shireling]

How about mail? Mail is effective against lesser crossbows and arrows usually. However its supremely weak against long bows and good crossbows. It won't splinter immediately from a weak blow and some good mail can withstand a hard sword blow no matter how good the sword is. Its not that expensive compared to full metal armor. It isn't that heavy. Armor actually isn't that heavy.  

We have mail. 

 

[Shireling]

Anyways, to remedy the issue with the nobility and whatnot, I think when we do character creation we should have a category for "Birth/Station" and for "Class"


For instance, "Marksman" would be a class and "Noble Firstborn" would be a station. I will outline the stations I think we should include:


-Peasant Firstborn


-Peasant Lateborn


-Freeman Firstborn


-Freeman Lateborn


-Guildman's Firstborn (Middle Class, essentially)


-Guildman's Lateborn


-Child of the Cloth (characters born to monastic couplings in the sects that allow it)


-Noble Firstborn


-Noble Lateborn


Your station influences several key areas of your character, but generally your lateborns are better Educated whereas your firstborns have greater Strength. The lower down in station you are, generally, the more Worldly (meaning, street-wise essentially) you are.


As for the classes, I think we could start with these:


-Warrior (we all know what this is, your run of the mill guy with a sword)


-Marksman (good with a longbow or crossbow)


-Caster (a spell-caster)


-Healer (duh)

 

[Blitzer]

Eh I think we could extent the noble area a lot. There are quite a few different classes of noblemen, and they are usually able to access varying amounts of capital or have more military experience. For example, a duke is very different from a normal lord.


Not to mention, warriors have various levels of training. A pikeman is very different from a man-at-arms in training. Although, most higher trained warriors were freeborn. What about special magical classes like necromancer or elemental? 

 

[Vudukudu]

Eh I think we could extent the noble area a lot. There are quite a few different classes of noblemen, and they are usually able to access varying amounts of capital or have more military experience. For example, a duke is very different from a normal lord.


Not to mention, warriors have various levels of training. A pikeman is very different from a man-at-arms in training. Although, most higher trained warriors were freeborn. What about special magical classes like necromancer or elemental? 

I think the intent is to keep it simple enough to be approachable. Particularly given the nature of the setting, its sort of seems as if most nobility are somewhat similar in station and wealth, though there is certainly some disparity. Hard to accumulate substantially more wealth or govern larger swaths of land when everything is awful. 


Regarding warriors - while perhaps an oversimplification in realistic purposes, its an adequate summary of the sort of characters people would want to play. No one, for example, has any interest in playing a pikeman - being a pikeman was patently horrible, required little "combat training" (relied much more heavily on sheer discipline and being able to hold formation, frankly), and, in terms of character classes, a pikeman wouldn't even count as a warrior. 


Caster would certainly include necromancers, elementals, illusionists, and so on, so its not really necessary to identify them as classes unto themselves. Much as one wouldn't have "axeman" and "swordsman" as they are both archetypal warriors.