Character Theory Creating Complex Characters

[SkyHawk MK III]

So I'm currently gearing up for an rp that's going to get rebooted in a few months time and I've been going back and forth with the GM about my character. Recently I've come up with a rather complex character 'arc' of sorts. Instead of a set arc of the character from start to finish, I'm currently coming up a system which allows for players to affect the characters decisions. Luckily for me, I can do this since the story of the rp is loose enough to acomdate for this.

However, I'm having issues on how to properly implement the system. I've got as far as setting certain limitations on how my character can be affected by other players and the GM but nothing much else.

Any help will be appreciated with this.

 

[Idea]

I think the first thing is why are you using a system at all? I'm not saying this is the wrong way to go about it - though any systemization necessarily comes with some artificiality, an innate drawback of it - however, what are the advantages because of which you chose this approach over, say, just being adapting the character to what happens in the roleplay or adapting your plan?

 

[SkyHawk MK III]

I think the first thing is why are you using a system at all? I'm not saying this is the wrong way to go about it - though any systemization necessarily comes with some artificiality, an innate drawback of it - however, what are the advantages because of which you chose this approach over, say, just being adapting the character to what happens in the roleplay or adapting your plan?

You do have a point about that. I wanted a system in place because there would be a point of no return depending on which side my character would be on. If they got far eough to the left or the right, they'd be locked into that and couldn't be swayed out of it. In addition, I felt that I needed to create it to avoid myself forcing the character to go down a certain path. I think it's more for me to let my character be controlled by players in some aspects.

Might be rambling at the point so feel free to ask for more details.

 

[LazyDaze]

You do have a point about that. I wanted a system in place because there would be a point of no return depending on which side my character would be on. If they got far eough to the left or the right, they'd be locked into that and couldn't be swayed out of it. In addition, I felt that I needed to create it to avoid myself forcing the character to go down a certain path. I think it's more for me to let my character be controlled by players in some aspects.

Might be rambling at the point so feel free to ask for more details.

I saw the response to your post and was wondering the same thing but I get it. I had a character who had alter egos that would be effected by their surroundings/characters/situations. I had like a mob psycho thing going on. Lol and like you it was to hold myself accountable as well. It can be difficult to stay IC at times, especially during hard times where it may be a detriment. I can say that I quickly abandoned the system and just played the character because I was too lazy to keep track of all that and all turned out well.

System-holds you accountable, makes you less adaptable and organic.

No system-can adapt, more freedom

I’d personally stray from the system unless ur really dedicated. So many actions and contexts have nuance to any character. I say every character is effected some way by something, and headlining in any direction because your rule book says so seems a bit restricting. Now I’d have to see the character because again, I quite literally went through the same thing so depending on that, a system to be accountable might be best but my initial thoughts would be to just to immerse yourself in the complexity of your char and RP. Hope this helps, and I’d be willing to look it over as well

 

[SkyHawk MK III]

I saw the response to your post and was wondering the same thing but I get it. I had a character who had alter egos that would be effected by their surroundings/characters/situations. I had like a mob psycho thing going on. Lol and like you it was to hold myself accountable as well. It can be difficult to stay IC at times, especially during hard times where it may be a detriment. I can say that I quickly abandoned the system and just played the character because I was too lazy to keep track of all that and all turned out well.

System-holds you accountable, makes you less adaptable and organic.

No system-can adapt, more freedom

I’d personally stray from the system unless ur really dedicated. So many actions and contexts have nuance to any character. I say every character is effected some way by something, and headlining in any direction because your rule book says so seems a bit restricting. Now I’d have to see the character because again, I quite literally went through the same thing so depending on that, a system to be accountable might be best but my initial thoughts would be to just to immerse yourself in the complexity of your char and RP. Hope this helps, and I’d be willing to look it over as well

Thanks for replying and posting your experience! It really does help me shed some light on the effects that a system oreinated style would have affect and I'm pretty sure, like yourself, that it would be best to be more adaptable rather than lock myself in. I'll keep tinkering though, maybe have something that can have the best of both worlds but not gonna hold my breath lol.

 

[Idea]

You do have a point about that. I wanted a system in place because there would be a point of no return depending on which side my character would be on. If they got far eough to the left or the right, they'd be locked into that and couldn't be swayed out of it. In addition, I felt that I needed to create it to avoid myself forcing the character to go down a certain path. I think it's more for me to let my character be controlled by players in some aspects.

Might be rambling at the point so feel free to ask for more details.

I see, in other words it's that you don't trust yourself to stick to your guns in adapting to what others have given you.

In that case, I think there are two crucial things to consider:

1) Anyone who has GMed knows there's no predicting what people will actually do in an RP. You can come up with hundreds of possibilities for how the players will deal with the kidnapping, and will still just throw flaming chickens at the hideout. Thus, if you want to systematize things, it will be counter-productive to make the system excessively specific. Don't try to come up with the various possibilities - make the system itself simple but with fundamental and somewhat vague possibilities. Don't address scenes and situations, no characters doing a specific action, but things more like "The character is told something really meaningful to their motivation". This will help you cover a maximum amount of possibilities, letting others create the effect you desire without channeling them into a very specific path, and also reduce some of the artificiality of the system.

2) More than anything, what you want is to know your character really well. Know them in depth, what makes them tick, what motivates or discourages them, how they react to and behave in different circumstances. What they like and hate, what they fear, what they adore and would do anything for. If you don't know your character deeply, then making a system like what you seem to want is putting the cart before the horse. I would argue in fact that character development without a clear idea of what your character is isn't development at all, it's just making up a character where you had a sock puppet before. While characters aren't and shouldn't be people, I think one trait in common that is often misunderstood as contradiction is actually the incredibly complex and extensive set of aspects that is our mode of thinking, personality, behavior... To put it another way, a character should consistently respond to similar circumstances in a similar way, and differences in reaction are born from differences in circumstances interacting with a still consistent personality and behavior. Excuse my rambling, but it is the fundament to say this: The know the character well is paramount in understanding how they would respond to changes in the events of the RP and they would change themselves. It is paramount in knowing what would make them change at all.


Hope this helps.

 

[SkyHawk MK III]

I see, in other words it's that you don't trust yourself to stick to your guns in adapting to what others have given you.

In that case, I think there are two crucial things to consider:

1) Anyone who has GMed knows there's no predicting what people will actually do in an RP. You can come up with hundreds of possibilities for how the players will deal with the kidnapping, and will still just throw flaming chickens at the hideout. Thus, if you want to systematize things, it will be counter-productive to make the system excessively specific. Don't try to come up with the various possibilities - make the system itself simple but with fundamental and somewhat vague possibilities. Don't address scenes and situations, no characters doing a specific action, but things more like "The character is told something really meaningful to their motivation". This will help you cover a maximum amount of possibilities, letting others create the effect you desire without channeling them into a very specific path, and also reduce some of the artificiality of the system.

2) More than anything, what you want is to know your character really well. Know them in depth, what makes them tick, what motivates or discourages them, how they react to and behave in different circumstances. What they like and hate, what they fear, what they adore and would do anything for. If you don't know your character deeply, then making a system like what you seem to want is putting the cart before the horse. I would argue in fact that character development without a clear idea of what your character is isn't development at all, it's just making up a character where you had a sock puppet before. While characters aren't and shouldn't be people, I think one trait in common that is often misunderstood as contradiction is actually the incredibly complex and extensive set of aspects that is our mode of thinking, personality, behavior... To put it another way, a character should consistently respond to similar circumstances in a similar way, and differences in reaction are born from differences in circumstances interacting with a still consistent personality and behavior. Excuse my rambling, but it is the fundament to say this: The know the character well is paramount in understanding how they would respond to changes in the events of the RP and they would change themselves. It is paramount in knowing what would make them change at all.


Hope this helps.

Thank you for this and yes I have trouble sticking to a set path because of course I usually default to a 'good' path when roleplaying characters even when a character would be morally questionable. Luckily for me, me and the GM are working together to create this character so it does help. I'll be forwarding this to my GM as well so we both know where we're at.

I did have in mind set rules, one being that it had to be meaingful to their motivation like you suggested. For your second point, this is beyond helpful. I have a hard time creating an well indepth character and I usually create a simple backstory and just wing it from there. It's definitly something useful to reflect on and comparing to what I have to see what I need to do. Tempted to create a checklist but I'll hold off for now until I talk to my GM about the idea.

Of course, nothing is set, this is more of 'testing the waters' to see if it's practical before usingit in an rp.

 

[Windsock]

Man, this game-master you mention sure sounds handsome!

 

[Ayama]

Man, this game-master you mention sure sounds handsome!

And oh-so-humble~ ;P

 

[GojiBean]

Hoyo!

If I may speak bluntly, it's ill advised to ever create or rely on a system where other participants control your character. That's called "Power Playing," and it's a near universally despised behavior among role players to the point where it's not uncommon to see it in Rule #1 of most RP's not to do it. Metagaming and God-Modding are also typically mentioned with Power Playing and are almost always one-time "do it and you're out of the RP" offenses.

If you're looking to develop your character in the most natural and dynamic way possible, I'd recommend using the following as the tools and guidelines for how they develop:

• Their interactions with other characters, both in conversation and physically (fights, friendly/unfriendly gestures like a slap on the back or one-handed shove in heated debates, etc)
• Emotional responses to events, be they positive or negative
• Story moments where politics, social issues, moral issues, or personal issues come to light and directly influence how your character sees themselves, the other characters, and the world they live in

You mentioned that you sometimes have "morally questionable" characters and they typically go down "positive" developments paths. This is okay. There's nothing wrong with a morally questionable character going down a good path. It's called a "Positive Arc" of character development.

There are three basic types of character arcs: Positive, Negative, and Flat.

The first two arcs can mix with the Flat arc if desired, like Positive Flat arc and the Negative Flat arc. Think Goku and Frieza from DBZ. Goku's a Positive Flat arc. He never changes, but can influence others around him to change for the better (Tien, Piccolo, Vegeta, etc). Frieza is a Negative Flat arc. He doesn't change, and changes people around him for the worse (Broly, his henchmen like Tagoma, etc).

Any character can be made to go down any of these arcs. And the path they take will almost always be determined in the most natural and dynamic fashion by the events of the story they're in, and their interactions with other characters.

Using DBZ again, Zamasu is a good example of the Negative character arc because every interaction he had reinforced the lie he believed about how Mortals don't deserve to exist and should be eliminated. He kept seeing their weaknesses, their selfishness, their "primitive" nature, etc. So he kept getting worse and worse throughout the story.


Anywhoosle, enough rambling from me. Lol.

I'd like to advise you to always take hold of your own character's development. It should never be left up to others because it's not their character. They don't know the character the way you do. Nor will they ever. They don't know what's best for your character, and so if you leave it to them they'll likely take the character somewhere that just doesn't make sense for who they are or what they need based on the backstory you've come up with for them.

Arguably the best thing to do for their development is simply to come up with the backstory, and pay attention to what happens in the RP's posting section. What other characters say and do, and any major events which unfold will all impact how your character sees and interacts with them and the world around them. And that's character development.

Cheers!

~ GojiBean

 

[SkyHawk MK III]

Hoyo!

If I may speak bluntly, it's ill advised to ever create or rely on a system where other participants control your character. That's called "Power Playing," and it's a near universally despised behavior among role players to the point where it's not uncommon to see it in Rule #1 of most RP's not to do it. Metagaming and God-Modding are also typically mentioned with Power Playing and are almost always one-time "do it and you're out of the RP" offenses.

If you're looking to develop your character in the most natural and dynamic way possible, I'd recommend using the following as the tools and guidelines for how they develop:

• Their interactions with other characters, both in conversation and physically (fights, friendly/unfriendly gestures like a slap on the back or one-handed shove in heated debates, etc)
• Emotional responses to events, be they positive or negative
• Story moments where politics, social issues, moral issues, or personal issues come to light and directly influence how your character sees themselves, the other characters, and the world they live in

You mentioned that you sometimes have "morally questionable" characters and they typically go down "positive" developments paths. This is okay. There's nothing wrong with a morally questionable character going down a good path. It's called a "Positive Arc" of character development.

There are three basic types of character arcs: Positive, Negative, and Flat.

The first two arcs can mix with the Flat arc if desired, like Positive Flat arc and the Negative Flat arc. Think Goku and Frieza from DBZ. Goku's a Positive Flat arc. He never changes, but can influence others around him to change for the better (Tien, Piccolo, Vegeta, etc). Frieza is a Negative Flat arc. He doesn't change, and changes people around him for the worse (Broly, his henchmen like Tagoma, etc).

Any character can be made to go down any of these arcs. And the path they take will almost always be determined in the most natural and dynamic fashion by the events of the story they're in, and their interactions with other characters.

Using DBZ again, Zamasu is a good example of the Negative character arc because every interaction he had reinforced the lie he believed about how Mortals don't deserve to exist and should be eliminated. He kept seeing their weaknesses, their selfishness, their "primitive" nature, etc. So he kept getting worse and worse throughout the story.


Anywhoosle, enough rambling from me. Lol.

I'd like to advise you to always take hold of your own character's development. It should never be left up to others because it's not their character. They don't know the character the way you do. Nor will they ever. They don't know what's best for your character, and so if you leave it to them they'll likely take the character somewhere that just doesn't make sense for who they are or what they need based on the backstory you've come up with for them.

Arguably the best thing to do for their development is simply to come up with the backstory, and pay attention to what happens in the RP's posting section. What other characters say and do, and any major events which unfold will all impact how your character sees and interacts with them and the world around them. And that's character development.

Cheers!

~ GojiBean

Thanks for the detailed reply! Much appreciated. After reading it, I can definitly say leaving my character's development up to other players via interaction by any means isn't the way to go. Really do appreacite the response to this. Helps me out quite a lot!