Character Theory Creating a Character From Scratch

[nerdy tangents]

Are you really going to make me say that Korean, Chinese, Japanese and Thailand people have a very specific appearance trait? Google the Epicanthic fold.


Have you seen Mean Girls? Well, when the protagonists says she's African (She being a ginger of course) everyone is literally like "wtf..."

Humans are mainly visual, biased if you will, it's true for everyone. So add that to a misrepresentation on the most famous Japanese creation and you create the disaster of whitewashers roleplayers

I'm not defending them or something like that, this isn't to excuse them, it's to theorize where the behavior's root is localized at UwU

Also you can be White and also be Hispanic, Latin@ or American, they aren't mutually exclusive terms (At least not in my book)

My point is this : you keep making excuses that basically boil down to this

“Well of course people will assume a character is white. They have to be realistically Japanese to count as a Japanese character. But being white can be as unrealistic as the creators want.”

And that is blatantly absurd.

There is no reason under the sun it makes more sense for an animated character to be white if literally everything about them is Japanese except their “appearance”.

Like you would rather believe that a bunch of white people live in Japan, take part in Japanese culture, have Japanese names, and (if your listening to subs) speak Japanese.

All because it just cannot compute in your mind that a Japanese person can have blue eyes and blonde hair.

All anyone is trying to hammer home is how insane your argument sounds.

It would be like if someone made a cartoon about a black family and someone insisted it was set in Africa. Despite the show clearly taking place in America, everyone having American names, and talking about American culture.

But no because the characters aren’t blue eyed blondes they can’t be American they have to be African.

(I mean that’s also overtly racist too but it’s kinda the same core mentality)

 

[Jannah]

Are you really going to make me say that Korean, Chinese, Japanese and Thailand people have a very specific appearance trait? Google the Epicanthic fold.


Have you seen Mean Girls? Well, when the protagonists says she's African (She being a ginger of course) everyone is literally like "wtf..."

Humans are mainly visual, biased if you will, it's true for everyone. So add that to a misrepresentation on the most famous Japanese creation and you create the disaster of whitewashers roleplayers

I'm not defending them or something like that, this isn't to excuse them, it's to theorize where the behavior's root is localized at UwU

Also you can be White and also be Hispanic, Latin@ or American, they aren't mutually exclusive terms (At least not in my book)

Hispanic is just a catch all term for those with roots in Spanish speaking (or sometimes Portuguese) countries. Spanish of course is spoken in both Latin America and Europe so technically a European could be hispanic if they come from Spain.

 

[nerdy tangents]

Also #fantasyisntwhite

As a fantasy roleplayer I find it so bizarre how many people can readily accept the existence of dragons, witches, and mystical properties but can’t accept that non-white people exist. (Or non-straight people for that matter but that’s a whole different rant)

The answer I always get when I ask? “oh well I’m just used to writing white people.”

Like people listen, fantasy isn’t real. There is no such thing as dragons or magic spells or ancient prophesies.

If you are already suspending your disbelief to account for all those things then whiteness shouldn’t be the hold out.

Especially in settings where it quite literally doesn’t matter. No one is going to accuse you of getting Trader culture wrong because Traders don’t exist.

So you can make them literally any shade under the sun and it does not matter.

Fantasy is the perfect place to try out diverse characters because you can make them as grounded in realism as you want.

And very few people are gonna get mad if you get things “wrong” since again none of the characters exist.

So you wanna make a full figured black female protagonist who befriends a talking dragon on her way to save the world go for it. Give her a acne covered gay frenemy who is plotting with the sources of Darkness until the power of friendship saves them.

Go hog wild.

 

[Jannah]

Also #fantasyisntwhite

As a fantasy roleplayer I find it so bizarre how many people can readily accept the existence of dragons, witches, and mystical properties but can’t accept that non-white people exist. (Or non-straight people for that matter but that’s a whole different rant)

The answer I always get when I ask? “oh well I’m just used to writing white people.”

Like people listen, fantasy isn’t real. There is no such thing as dragons or magic spells or ancient prophesies.

If you are already suspending your disbelief to account for all those things then whiteness shouldn’t be the hold out.

Especially in settings where it quite literally doesn’t matter. No one is going to accuse you of getting Trader culture wrong because Traders don’t exist.

So you can make them literally any shade under the sun and it does not matter.

Fantasy is the perfect place to try out diverse characters because you can make them as grounded in realism as you want.

And very few people are gonna get mad if you get things “wrong” since again none of the characters exist.

So you wanna make a full figured black female protagonist who befriends a talking dragon on her way to save the world go for it. Give her a acne covered gay frenemy who is plotting with the sources of Darkness until the power of friendship saves them.

Go hog wild.

Honestly, pretty much every time I'm doing a RP that is not in a realistic historical setting in Europe I'm playing POC's. I love learning about other cultures and I find that writing about these characters from different backgrounds can be a way to do that.

 

[Promachos]

Also #fantasyisntwhite

As a fantasy roleplayer I find it so bizarre how many people can readily accept the existence of dragons, witches, and mystical properties but can’t accept that non-white people exist. (Or non-straight people for that matter but that’s a whole different rant)

The answer I always get when I ask? “oh well I’m just used to writing white people.”

This bothers me a lot. So you can't play someone who isn't white, or female, or w/e because you have no experience being those things.
...but you can write a shapeshifting dragon princess with ice magic?

It's just not a reason that makes any sense. I genuinely don't think most people who say this are trying to come up with excuses, I think they genuinely believe this is their reason, and they just need to do a lot more introspection when it comes to their art. Because if you have more ease in empathizing with that shapeshifting dragon princess than a non-white person, that's a problem.

 

[Neo Alice]

My point is this : you keep making excuses that basically boil down to this

“Well of course people will assume a character is white. They have to be realistically Japanese to count as a Japanese character. But being white can be as unrealistic as the creators want.”

And that is blatantly absurd.

There is no reason under the sun it makes more sense for an animated character to be white if literally everything about them is Japanese except their “appearance”.

Like you would rather believe that a bunch of white people live in Japan, take part in Japanese culture, have Japanese names, and (if your listening to subs) speak Japanese.

All because it just cannot compute in your mind that a Japanese person can have blue eyes and blonde hair.

All anyone is trying to hammer home is how insane your argument sounds.

It would be like if someone made a cartoon about a black family and someone insisted it was set in Africa. Despite the show clearly taking place in America, everyone having American names, and talking about American culture.

But no because the characters aren’t blue eyed blondes they can’t be American they have to be African.

(I mean that’s also overtly racist too but it’s kinda the same core mentality)

I never said the unrealistic characteristics (blue hair, red eyes, and whatever else) could only be viable for a white character, in fact there's dark skinned anime characters (the small amount that exist) with golden eyes and other stuff like that. I want to clarify that i'm not saying it's not that they would look bad or something, a lot of japanese cosplayers rock their outfits and look perfectly fine. My main thing is still the eyes, which are obvious traits that identify japanese people and are obviously not well represented in anime.

It's funny how i said i wasn't making an excuse for anyone, just theorizing the reason behind the problem, and your next move it's that i'm making excuses (?

Omg i dare you to show me that 90% of Japanese's population have natural lighter eyes, natural lighter hair and lack the epicanthic fold, please go ahead a bring that huge piece of evidence showing how anime is the biggest accurate physical representation of japanese people as much as it is culturally. Each of these physical traits individually are not that big of a deal, the thing is that anime mixes them more often that not and therefore the misrepresentation is born.

Comparing america (A country founded by immigrants from all over the world) to Japan is just a ridiculous attempt to divert the focus of this little "debate"

Yes, if you show a mainly visual species something that supposedly represents a culture they'll probably assume certain things about that culture. Is it ok to whitewash? No, Should they keep doing it? No, but just saying something isn't ok and shouldn't be done isn't going to fix anything because the human brain is much deeper and complex than that. If you don't go straight at the source of the issue, understand it and work directly on it you'll hardly be making a difference.

I'll make a quick example, if your kid draws on the walls and you just go a yell him not to do it then they'll hardly truly change their heart. They'll probably still have the wish to draw on the walls and be afraid of doing it because of how you'll react, i would hardly say the problem it's resolved but actually just suppressed. On the other hand if you teach them to draw on paper, or even just hanging the paper on the wall for them to draw on it without staining the wall itself the problem will be truly dealt with. You are happy, your kid is happy, all good in the world.

Movies like "Your Name" are a much closer representation physically to Japanese people, yes they are anime characters and their eyes lack the epicanthic fold but at least there's no weird pink haired people or other unrealistic nor uncommon traits and even though the majority of characters have brown hair and brown eyes each one is clearly distinguishable from each other (Like in real life), there's no need to add unreal features to each character to make them unique.


Animes like Re:Creators are also a good example, all the anime characters that come to the real world are these stereotypical people with uncommon traits (Like white hair, red hair, blonde hair, blue eyes) and unrealistic ones (Pink hair, Purple Hair) but all the japanese in the real world are depicted with brown hair and eyes in varying shades without losing their unique essence and aesthetic.

 

[Jannah]

I just want to point out that, next to the two Koreas, Japan is the most homogeneous country in the world. Based on that alone it's safe to assume that anime characters, unless the anime explicitly does not take place in Japan, are Japanese. Any oddly coloured eyes or hair are purely a stylistic choice. Colours often set the tone the creator wants the media to have. Brighter colours often denote something more light-hearted while darker colours indicate something more sombre and serious, and so on.

 

[nerdy tangents]

Neo Alice
I am gonna try one last time to get through to you then I am gonna let it go.

As I understand it you think “Japanese people must have Japanese eyes. Otherwise they aren’t Japanese.”

1. Anime is not meant to be realistic. Very few animated mediums in general are gonna give you a photo realistic representation of real people.

2. Ask yourself why you are the only person in this thread who seems to have this hang up. The reason I started to respond in the first place was because it never occurred to me that people didn’t naturally assume that Japanese anime starred Japanese characters.

3. Also ask yourself why physical appearance is the defining trait of ethnicity in a non-realistic medium. Again anime is not meant to be photo realistic. It is meant to be stylized.

I listen to a podcast about Sailor Moon (the only anime I have any degree of familiarity with) and they make a lot of jokes about protagonist hair. Because it is a understood part of the medium that certain stylistic choices are meant to be visual shorthand for the story itself.

As Jannah mentioned the colors are a storytelling choice not meant to denote ethnicity.

For that matter the eyes are also a stylistic choice. And it’s a pretty well known fact about anime. Even a relatively casual fan knows “anime eyes” are a signifier of the medium not ethnicity.

So the only reason anyone has to assume that the eyes (or whatever other physical trait) denotes ethnicity is if they are dealing with implicit bias.

 

[Merciless Medic]

The biggest example is that Katniss was whitewashed (I do believe unintentionally) in the movies and that’s something to avoid. Residents of District 12 tend to be dark skinned, as far as we know.

You are correct. In the books, Katniss (and including Gale) were described to have olive skin and black hair. In the movie, they had fair white skin and brunette hair. Also, the actress was a bit too tall for the Katniss portrayed in the book, since the book said everybody is taller than her, but the actress stands above most of the other tributes, including the actor who played Peeta. Clove is even smaller than Katniss in the movie, but Clove is supposed to be the tall one. Katniss' eyes were also supposed to be grey, but they were bluish in the movie.

HOWEVER, the eye thing is a bit weird. Depending on the light and what lights are being used and what angle they hit, my grey eyes can look blue, almost hazel, green, dark grey, white, and on one occasion, red and yellow. Though, the actress does have bluish eyes.

There are other differences as well, like Katniss' dress in the books being made entirely out of reflective precious red, yellow, and white gems with bits of blue that accent the tips of the flame design. Pretty sure that was difficult to pull off for the film, so they switched it to a red dress with false fire coming from the back like wings. When she spins, the jewels were supposed to reflect the light and make her appear on the fire instead of actually have false fire flowing out from under her dress.

Anyway XD I got on a tangent.

So, I get that you are basically saying "let's have more diversity", but I'm not so sure if it's just me who is seeing this because I'm a paranoid person, but I also see the message here as "going with what you are comfortable with is hurtful". XD I mean, for me, going with what is comfortable for me would be people who are white (or Japanese, since I do a lot of anime-based RPs), male or female, and have similar knowledge based on what I know (which I think goes for quite a few people). This also goes for sexuality, but I can play someone who is attracted to males a lot better since I, myself, am attracted to men and only men. But I think I took it wrong and you're actually saying just as long as I don't throw harmful stereotypes into my characters, I'm fine? XD I just wanted to make sure.

As for stuff your character is struggling to get through, what about mental illnesses you make up for fear of getting it too correct and it triggers your partners? I have a character who has a variant of schizophrenia that I made a long time ago (that seriously needs revamping) and would like to know your thoughts on it :3

 

[nerdy tangents]

So I can’t speak for the OP Merciless Medic but here is how I see it: there is a difference between having a narrow focus and a narrow imagination.

If you only want to write from your own particular perspective that is fine, as long as you expand outward in your world.

A great example of this is Harry Potter. JKR has proven time and time again she quite literally cannot write outside the British perspective. More specifically the white lady British perspective.

And honestly that’s okay.

But her problem is she can’t let other people expand her worlds for her. She can’t let other people diversify her universe because that means that she has to imagine the universe as being bigger than her perspective.

That is the problem.

If you personally don’t feel like you can make diverse characters that’s fine. But let your partners make diverse characters instead. Maybe add “subtler” forms of diversity for your stories that you are comfortable with.

Instead of different ethnicities maybe try just adding in different body types. Instead of just making people who have your own life experiences maybe make a character based on a friend you know with slightly different perspectives.

That’s the beauty of diversity you can scale it up or down to comfort. And the beauty of roleplay is you aren’t the only one in charge of changing things up.

So if you want to try to diversify but don’t feel comfortable writing it yourself find a partner who is.

 

[yutohase]

I love you so much for this. You have no idea how much I needed it.

 

[Jannah]

So I can’t speak for the OP Merciless Medic but here is how I see it: there is a difference between having a narrow focus and a narrow imagination.

If you only want to write from your own particular perspective that is fine, as long as you expand outward in your world.

A great example of this is Harry Potter. JKR has proven time and time again she quite literally cannot write outside the British perspective. More specifically the white lady British perspective.

And honestly that’s okay.

But her problem is she can’t let other people expand her worlds for her. She can’t let other people diversify her universe because that means that she has to imagine the universe as being bigger than her perspective.

That is the problem.

Honestly, lack of diversity is like the least of my problems with JKR's writing, but that's definitely not a discussion I want to flood this thread with.

But yes, I understand your point. Some people, particularly those who are more sheltered, may have difficulty writing outside their own perspective. For example, up until a few years ago I had almost no exposure to black people. I was living in a small, very white, Canadian town. The only people of colour I ever really had interactions with were Indians, Asians, and sometimes indigenous. Even then it was only to the extent of doing business transactions with them in restaurants and stores. It wasn't like we had any personal interactions. Due to this lack of exposure to black people it would have been hard for me to write them without resorting to stereotypes.

 

[nerdy tangents]

Jannah I meant diversity in the sense that JKR is a good example of a lack of imagination. She lacks the ability to imagine a world existing outside of her own experience. To borrow from your example, it would be like if you assumed the only kind of stories you could tell where about small predominately white Canadian towns.

But obviously there is much more to the world than that one narrow perspective, and that's where imagination comes in. You can take parts of the world you are familiar with (say small predominately white town) and expand it to other parts of the world. Say write about a small American town or a small British town. Like these might be subtle differences to start with but that's how you build a broader and more diverse view of the world.

(I mean you in the general sense, not you specifically. You specifically can write whatever you want.)

 

[Melpomene]

Beautifully written my friend! I read it when I should have been probably reading for my classes, but you know who needs those?

I think you brought up a lot of helpful advice, especially for people looking to diversify their cast. And I promise to everyone it is way more fun to play diverse sets of characters rather than playing the same over and over again. Our own implicit bias can be so engraved that despite the fact I am a WOC I would exclusively play white girls because I just thought that was the default, but now that I am a bit more #woke I can say that playing different skin colors, cultures, body types and genders are all very fun as long a you do so respectfully.