Character Theory Creating a Character From Scratch

[Neo Alice]

I think what is being discussed is implicit bias. What 4scorelightnings is trying to get across with the anime = Japanese comparison is that there is no contextual reason for the character set in a Japanese setting to be anything other than Japanese.

So if you look at the art and just assume that everyone is white that points to a subconscious assumption on your part that white is the default color. Therefore non-white characters have to be obviously represented in some way to count.

But as the saying goes “if it moves like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck.”

Naruto is a blue eyed blonde, but he also has a Japanese name, he very clearly lives in a fantasy Asian setting, and there is from what little I know of the series no indication of any kind of European/Western place existing.

This is a fantasy world with effectively magic powers and weird demon beasts. It’s not a huge leap that people can be Asian and also have naturally pink or blonde hair.

I said Naruto for a more famous example, there's perfectly regular slice of life animes set in modern japan with no superpowers nor external factors whatsoever (that even are about science) and still there's these type of characters with physical characteristics that don't fit the japanese realistic appearance nor any realistic appearance at all.

The duck test is actually "If it LOOKS like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck." If you see a parrot quacking and swimming like a duck you aren't going to think it is a duck, right? You'll asume the parrot has heard a duck quack and it's mimicking the sound.

 

[4scorelightnings]

I said Naruto for a more famous example, there's perfectly regular slice of life animes set in modern japan with no superpowers nor external factos whatsoever (that even are about science) and still there's these type of characters with physical characteristics that don't fit the japanese realistic appearance nor any realistic appearance at all.

The duck test is actually "If it LOOKS like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck." If you see a parrot quacking and swimming like a duck you aren't going to think it is a duck, right? You'll asume the parrot has heard a duck quack and it's mimicking the sound.

Why do the majority of Japanese anime characters look like white people?

Answer (1 of 74): Because Japanese people worship the “white” beauty standard. Skin bleaching is prevalent in many Asian countries, and having fair skin with “European” features is their idea of beauty and success. They will tell you a bunch of idiocies that don’t make sense to try and convince ...

www.quora.com

This whole thread will help understand implicit bias better. Not just the first response but most of the other ones if you scroll down. Even if a character has blonde hair and blue eyes in non fantastical settings in anime, unless it's explicitly stated or they have European names, I would consider them Japanese or of Asian descent. Especially if they have Japanese surnames!

 

[Jannah]

Why do the majority of Japanese anime characters look like white people?

Answer (1 of 74): Because Japanese people worship the “white” beauty standard. Skin bleaching is prevalent in many Asian countries, and having fair skin with “European” features is their idea of beauty and success. They will tell you a bunch of idiocies that don’t make sense to try and convince ...

www.quora.com

This whole thread will help understand implicit bias.

This is very true. It doesn't help that Japanese and other East Asian people are typically lighter skinned than other people in Asia. When a lot of people think of Asia their minds may instantly go to "brown" people like Indians or Arabs.

 

[4scorelightnings]

This is very true. It doesn't help that Japanese and other East Asian people are typically lighter skinned than other people in Asia. When a lot of people think of Asia their minds may instantly go to "brown" people like Indians or Arabs.

This!!! I am half Indian and half Japanese, and each side of my family has to deal with entirely different sides of implicit bias from white people XD. It's quite exhausting.

 

[nerdy tangents]

I said Naruto for a more famous example, there's perfectly regular slice of life animes set in modern japan with no superpowers nor external factos whatsoever (that even are about science) and still there's these type of characters with physical characteristics that don't fit the japanese realistic appearance nor any realistic appearance at all.

The duck test is actually "If it LOOKS like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck." If you see a parrot quacking and swimming like a duck you aren't going to think it is a duck, right? You'll asume the parrot has heard a duck quack and it's mimicking the sound.

My point is what you described as “realistic” for Japanese was basically “They have to prove their non-white by looking a very specific way.”

Last I checked white people don’t naturally have blue hair either. Not to mention Japanese people can have red hair or even blonde hair.

Hell you really wanna have your mind blown, HISPANIC people can have blue eyes and blonde hair. Or actually red hair too now I think about it.

So why not assume all those people are Hispanic then?

 

[Jannah]

This!!! I am half Indian and half Japanese, and each side of my family has to deal with entirely different sides of implicit bias from white people XD. It's quite exhausting.

Looks can be incredibly misleading. I'm white, Eastern European to be precise, and frequently I'm assumed to be Levantine Arab, Turkish, or Jewish. I guess to a lot of people I don't have the stereotypical white look.

 

[4scorelightnings]

Looks can be incredibly misleading. I'm white, Eastern European to be precise, and frequently I'm assumed to be Levantine Arab, Turkish, or Jewish. I guess to a lot of people I don't have the stereotypical white look.

Dang, even within Eurocentric standards there is still implicit bias which just proves that beauty standards are circular and dumb!

 

[nerdy tangents]

I am Hispanic and a lot of folks are shocked we don’t all come in various shades of brown. My grandma looks pretty white and she’s Mexican. My dad is Puerto Rican and he looks stereotypically Hispanic. I am lily white because I am a vampire who hates sunlight.

Also grandpa (moms side) was Dutch so some of us got the white passing gene.

 

[Jannah]

Dang, even within Eurocentric standards there is still implicit bias which just proves that beauty standards are circular and dumb!

Yep. It's kind of like how the Nazis (apologies for invoking Godwin's Law here, LOL) thought the ideal German had blonde hair and blue eyes. Those kinds of biases very much exist within European society too.

 

[nerdy tangents]

Side note I always wondered why that was. To the best of my (very limited knowledge) Germany doesn’t have an overly large portion of the population that is blue eyed blonde does it? I always sort of assumed it was like America were most people are brunettes of various shades. And blue eyed blonde is relatively uncommon.

But that might be my own implicit bias / poor grades in world history talking.

 

[4scorelightnings]

Exactly! You all make some really good points and further prove why implicit bias is so so important to unlearn and recognize in ourselves!

 

[Jannah]

Side note I always wondered why that was. To the best of my (very limited knowledge) Germany doesn’t have an overly large portion of the population that is blue eyed blonde does it? I always sort of assumed it was like America were most people are brunettes of various shades. And blue eyed blonde is relatively uncommon.

But that might be my own implicit bias / poor grades in world history talking.

It may have in the past, but nowadays it's pretty diverse.

 

[nerdy tangents]

It may have in the past, but nowadays it's pretty diverse.

fair enough, I mean I guess racism doesn’t really need hard statistics to back it up. it was just one of those things that I always wondered were it started from. I mean once you get the ball rolling bigotry will keep the standard going but coming up with it in the first place always seemed a little random.

Like what is so inherently great about blondes really? (Nothing against IRL blondes of course it just seems a random hair color to pick.)

 

[Jannah]

Like what is so inherently great about blondes really? (Nothing against IRL blondes of course it just seems a random hair color to pick.)

I think it's something to do with Norse Mythology (which of course Germans were into, being Germanic people themselves).

 

[4scorelightnings]

fair enough, I mean I guess racism doesn’t really need hard statistics to back it up. it was just one of those things that I always wondered were it started from. I mean once you get the ball rolling bigotry will keep the standard going but coming up with it in the first place always seemed a little random.

Like what is so inherently great about blondes really? (Nothing against IRL blondes of course it just seems a random hair color to pick.)

I think Hitler and Nazis somehow attached it to being the children of God, which is kind of hilarious since Jesus is *gasp* a brown, middle-eastern Jewish man according to most renditions of the Bible.

 

[Neo Alice]

My point is what you described as “realistic” for Japanese was basically “They have to prove their non-white by looking a very specific way.”

Last I checked white people don’t naturally have blue hair either. Not to mention Japanese people can have red hair or even blonde hair.

Hell you really wanna have your mind blown, HISPANIC people can have blue eyes and blonde hair. Or actually red hair too now I think about it.

So why not assume all those people are Hispanic then?

I never said someone had blue hair naturally, anyone can just die their hair and do whatever they want with it.

The majority of people in general don't have light eyes and hair (Like 111minx took the time to explain in her posts), much less Japanese nor Hispanic people. I'm not saying there can't be Japanese or Hispanic people with lighter eyes and hair but they aren't the majority of their population, in anime they are and therefore they don't properly represent the physical appearance more common to Japanese people.

You don't have to tell me hispanic people can have lighter eyes and hair, let ME blow your mind! I'm latina, specifically Venezuelan (still living in venezuela), we are as diverse as they come honey . I'm curious, from where exactly were you guessing i'm from?

This is very true. It doesn't help that Japanese and other East Asian people are typically lighter skinned than other people in Asia. When a lot of people think of Asia their minds may instantly go to "brown" people like Indians or Arabs.

Interestingly enough for me it's backwards, when i hear Asia i think of Korea and Japan. Maybe it's because i'm latina and in Spanish is more usual to refer to Koreans, Chinese and Japanese people as "asians" as the umbrella term when you aren't sure of their actual nationality/ethnicity. Eventually i founded out that India was also part of Asia of course but still i think first about east asia than the rest of Asia.

 

[4scorelightnings]

I think it's something to do with Norse Mythology (which of course Germans were into, being Germanic people themselves).

This too!

 

[nerdy tangents]

Also I got sidetracked from one of the points I had intended to make about body types.

The way I have always seen it is pretty/handsome characters are aspirational and “plain” characters are relatable..1

So a lot of protagonists in books specifically aren’t written to physically attractive. This is true for romance genre especially as well as a lot of fantasy books.

That’s because part of what makes the characters so relatable to readers is they aren’t “special” in ways their society values (at least not at first). The specialness of the protagonists are usually revealed through the plot.

However I think a lot of people make characters not to be relatable but to be aspirational. Which is why so many of them uphold Eurocentric beauty standards. Because those are the aspirational goals we are all taught to strive for.

 

[4scorelightnings]

Interestingly enough for me it's backwards, when i hear Asia i think of Korea and Japan. Maybe it's because i'm latina and in Spanish is more usual to refer to Koreans, Chinese and Japanese people as "asians" as the umbrella term when you aren't sure of their actual nationality. Eventually i founded out that India was also part of Asia of course but still i think first about east asia than the rest of Asia.



I never said someone had blue hair naturally, anyone can just die their hair and do whatever they want with it.

The majority of people in general don't have light eyes and hair (Like 111minx took the time to explain in her posts), much less Japanese nor Hispanic people. I'm not saying there can't be Japanese or Hispanic people with lighter eyes and hair but they aren't the majority of their population, in anime they are and therefore they don't properly represent the physical appearance more common to Japanese people.

You don't have to tell me hispanic people can have lighter eyes and hair, let ME blow your mind! I'm latina, specifically Venezuelan, we are as diverse as they come honey . I'm curious, from where exactly were you guessing i'm from?

My limited opinion being Japanese and having lived in Japan, but also being in America for a lot of my life is that anime doesn't really represent white people in its majority at least since (1) like you said it doesn't really represent any race really accurately in terms of physical appearance, and (2) majority of anime are in Japan or asian-themed fantasy worlds XD But that Quora thread really helped me understand that more I feel like, and I feel like I had to unlearn to imagine only white people in cartoons, even though I'm 0% white, I still had that implicit bias!

 

[nerdy tangents]

I never said someone had blue hair naturally, anyone can just die their hair and do whatever they want with it.

The majority of people in general don't have light eyes and hair (Like 111minx took the time to explain in her posts), much less Japanese nor Hispanic people. I'm not saying there can't be Japanese or Hispanic people with lighter eyes and hair but they aren't the majority of their population, in anime they are and therefore they don't properly represent the physical appearance more common to Japanese people.

You don't have to tell me hispanic people can have lighter eyes and hair, let ME blow your mind! I'm latina, specifically Venezuelan (still living in venezuela), we are as diverse as they come honey . I'm curious, from where exactly were you guessing i'm from?


Interestingly enough for me it's backwards, when i hear Asia i think of Korea and Japan. Maybe it's because i'm latina and in Spanish is more usual to refer to Koreans, Chinese and Japanese people as "asians" as the umbrella term when you aren't sure of their actual nationality/ethnicity. Eventually i founded out that India was also part of Asia of course but still i think first about east asia than the rest of Asia.

Then again let me reiterate, why are Japanese characters only Japanese if they fit a narrow physical appearance?

Why are they not Latina? Or Venezuelan? Or whatever?

Why must they be white unless otherwise specified?

 

[4scorelightnings]

Also I got sidetracked from one of the points I had intended to make about body types.

The way I have always seen it is pretty/handsome characters are aspirational and “plain” characters are relatable..1

So a lot of protagonists in books specifically aren’t written to physically attractive. This is true for romance genre especially as well as a lot of fantasy books.

That’s because part of what makes the characters so relatable to readers is they aren’t “special” in ways their society values (at least not at first). The specialness of the protagonists are usually revealed through the plot.

However I think a lot of people make characters not to be relatable but to be aspirational. Which is why so many of them uphold Eurocentric beauty standards. Because those are the aspirational goals we are all taught to strive for.

Yes! Eurocentric views and beauty standards I feel like dominate most of our educational life which helps with that. I think switching from making aspirational to relatable characters really helps with that! ^^

 

[Jannah]

Yes! Eurocentric views and beauty standards I feel like dominate most of our educational life which helps with that. I think switching from making aspirational to relatable characters really helps with that! ^^

Because of these same standards, as you probably know, a lot of Indian and other darker skinned women actually try to lighten their skin

 

[4scorelightnings]

Because of these same standards, as you probably know, a lot of Indian and other darker skinned women actually try to lighten their skin

This!! In my Indian family they literally say outloud they wish they had fairer skin, and a lot of my older generation aunts say you need to have fairer skin to get married easier. A lot has to do with the caste system there too and how the upper caste is the fairest skinned Indians. It hurts my whole being. It's really a lot of work to decolonize beauty standards so right now I am just working on giving pep talks in my own family X'D

 

[Neo Alice]

Then again let me reiterate, why are Japanese characters only Japanese if they fit a narrow physical appearance?

Why are they not Latina? Or Venezuelan? Or whatever?

Why must they be white unless otherwise specified?

Are you really going to make me say that Korean, Chinese, Japanese and Thailand people have a very specific appearance trait? Google the Epicanthic fold.


Have you seen Mean Girls? Well, when the protagonists says she's African (She being a ginger of course) everyone is literally like "wtf..."

Humans are mainly visual, biased if you will, it's true for everyone. So add that to a misrepresentation on the most famous Japanese creation and you create the disaster of whitewashers roleplayers

I'm not defending them or something like that, this isn't to excuse them, it's to theorize where the behavior's root is localized at UwU

Also you can be White and also be Hispanic, Latin@ or American, they aren't mutually exclusive terms (At least not in my book)

 

[nerdy tangents]

Also some tips on writing body types

1. steer clear of definitive height / weight, as those kind of things are relative.

2. try not to focus too much on the relative attractiveness of your character. As the saying goes “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.” It’s up to other characters to determine your characters attractiveness not you.

3. Also look at people around you and describe them. You don’t have to make them characters but it will get you away from Hollywood standards and writing more relatable body types.

4. Full Figured Women and Non Muscular men are attractive. Again think about real life, how many people do you know who date super models? If you don’t need to be unreasonably good looking in real life to have value then why do you need to be unreasonably good looking in a fictional universe?