Conversation [TNW]

[RubyRose]

50 and under. So 1-50, attack lands.
51-100 attack misses

Got it. THat is like opposite then what I'm used to but I'm also not really awake anymore. Maybe this will make more sense tomorrow xD


I haven't found any gaps yet, Blaze, but I will let you know if I find something I think is a gap.

 

[RubyRose]

Also dude, how are you going to keep up with all of this? Like... we'll need super active players when the battles are going on and stuff or we're going to be trapped in a battle for ages :/


(wrote and posted this before reading the last line in how to whoop ass. Just... don't mind me. )

 

[Orikanyo]

That is true, and how we pretty much lost it last time, bunch of people just flaked like hell.


No matter what we do were gona get a mixed bag, much as I want to keep a good outlook, folks are flakier then hell these days.

 

[SirBlazeALot]

Also dude, how are you going to keep up with all of this? Like... we'll need super active players when the battles are going on and stuff or we're going to be trapped in a battle for ages :/
(wrote and posted this before reading the last line in how to whoop ass. Just... don't mind me. )

We'll be a-ok as long as everyone stays activo.

That is true, and how we pretty much lost it last time, bunch of people just flaked like hell.
No matter what we do were gona get a mixed bag, much as I want to keep a good outlook, folks are flakier then hell these days.

Don't worry about that, I've got flake repellent. I just drop bros after a week now and replace 'em.


This one also won't have like 20 bros like last time.

 

[Orikanyo]

cool man, I'm all good.

 

[theplasticdemon]

aaaaaaand 3/5 characters are up

Spoiler

my next two are going to be extremely sexy

i'll get my easter egg up tomorrow... maybe

 

[RubyRose]

aaaaaaand 3/5 characters are up

Spoiler

my next two are going to be extremely sexy

i'll get my easter egg up tomorrow... maybe

Wow... I'm blown away by the characters you've already made. Just... wow.

 

[Orikanyo]

wow... well done~!


Now.. would anybody say anything about me being a lord?


We do need one and I feel so ever the need to balance out tomfoolery with utter strict poshness.

 

[theplasticdemon]

Wow... I'm blown away by the characters you've already made. Just... wow.

Thank you so so much ()()()


I never ever proofread my posts before i send them, so hearing that really motivates me to with lizim and ragan ^-^


Looking forward to everyones chars (o'v'o)

 

[theplasticdemon]

wow... well done~!
Now.. would anybody say anything about me being a lord?


We do need one and I feel so ever the need to balance out tomfoolery with utter strict poshness.

Now that you mention poshness, i do remember writing rosalia as having total senpai- syndrome over the lord of palenia xD

 

[Orikanyo]

Now that you mention poshness, i do remember writing rosalia as having total senpai- syndrome over the lord of palenia xD

This....


yes...


I shall do it, i will take up this mantle! And hopefully perform adequately.


now then, time to plot and scheme like a good tyran- lord.

 

[Ixacise]

Bruh if you're doing a game based off a SRPG why aren't you listing concrete movement rates for the classes and the map don't have any type of grid to it so you can see actual positions?

 

[SirBlazeALot]

Bruh if you're doing a game based off a SRPG why aren't you listing concrete movement rates for the classes and the map don't have any type of grid to it so you can see actual positions?

Because that'd be over-complicated. Sure it's based off an SRPG, but that's all it is is based. I don't want to mimic the game entirely, I'd still like a bit of wiggle room for people to be creative. I think the current map structure should be enough for a person to determine their position, and knowledge of their class should help them determine how far they can and can't move. It really boils down to common sense at the end of the day. Might have to put a tiny bit of thought into it, but that's kind of the point. Feel me?


Also, hello.

 

[Orikanyo]

For some reason, i think you had to discuss the exact same thing in the last one, getting some major damn deja vu.

 

[SirBlazeALot]

For some reason, i think you had to discuss the exact same thing in the last one, getting some major damn deja vu.

probably did. i'm gonna alter the map shit this time though after every turn. and no more sprites, just letters. i didn't realize how much of a mess that thread was still i started remaking it. oh nooby blaze. you silly silly goose.

 

[Orikanyo]

its all good man.

 

[Ixacise]

Dunno already looks like it's over complicated. I mean you got 12 stats and only 7 are meaningful in regards to your mechanics. A separate crit roll with a super tiny success rate that doesn't translate at well to tabletop cuz in a game you're the only one playing and the computer handles the math (unless you're playing something like rollmaster that has clunky mechanics).

 

[SirBlazeALot]

Dunno already looks like it's over complicated. I mean you got 12 stats and only 7 are meaningful in regards to your mechanics. A separate crit roll with a super tiny success rate that doesn't translate at well to tabletop cuz in a game you're the only one playing and the computer handles the math (unless you're playing something like rollmaster that has clunky mechanics).

Can you specify which of the 5/12 stats you're perceiving as irrelevant to the mechanics?


Also, I'd imagine that having a separate RNG for crit is how the games run. The other option would be factoring Crit into accuracy, which would get messy. I don't know anything about tabletop, and I'm not sure how relevant it is to this. Could you clear that up?


Can you specify what exactly it is that you're having trouble understanding?

 

[Ixacise]

Thing is in tabletop it's important to explain what the hell the things on your character's sheet do, mean, and any interactions with other mechanical areas.


So we got "Relative Values" like Attack, Defense, Movement, Magic, and Resistance which are all things you can have in tabletop games as part of your character's stats/abilities and as such would have some concrete value and explanation of their relationship with the game rules.


Now obviously you explained what they mean. The issues is that they're meaningless and confusing. They're meaningless because you just give them a rating but with no context tie them to the actual mechanics in freeform you could get away with something like that because it doesn't really matter cuz it's all narrative and there's no actual rules and mechanics, however with PnP type games you need definition otherwise you get into trouble as there's numbers involved. So I'm looking at this and I want to have more information since you know we got stats to know for the rolling and math part and see nothing of use on that page so I hit the next tab to "rollers" and there I see important information in regards to mechanics.


So having a working brain I can infer that your rollers are connected to these relative systems. The problem is two things (movement is its own problem): You don't establish the relationship between the two things which prompts some questions like if a caster decides to whack someone with his stick would he have two values of ACC, 1 for Physical attacks and another for magic. Does he use the same value but with a modifier? Or is he simply unable to make a psychical attack with his stick?


Then another question that pops in my head the relationship between relative systems, your rollers, and the classes cuz your classes modify your base rollers and they have various ratings on their values, but you don't give enough if any modifiers to the rollers. So lets look at the General he has a high defense in the relative value list except he gets -15 to evasion which is your defense "stat" for all intents and purposes so I again I can only infer your counting his Blocking ability into it despite it only being useful for defending others, but it's odd that the defensive class can't defend himself well.


Anyway the issue with movement is that it's tied to distances and you got that one ranged weapon tag which mention being able to hit almost half across the map which is a very measurable thing but you're abstracting movement rates which means distance means not a whole lot and that gets fucky especially if we have a visual element.

 

[SirBlazeALot]

Alright, lets dissect this piece by piece. You're actually overthinking this, and that's my fault, I tried to be clear and concise but. Ya know. Being human and all. Can't catch 'em all.

Thing is in tabletop it's important to explain what the hell the things on your character's sheet do, mean, and any interactions with other mechanical areas.
So we got "Relative Values" like Attack, Defense, Movement, Magic, and Resistance which are all things you can have in tabletop games as part of your character's stats/abilities and as such would have some concrete value and explanation of their relationship with the game rules.


Now obviously you explained what they mean. The issues is that they're meaningless and confusing. They're meaningless because you just give them a rating but with no context tie them to the actual mechanics in freeform you could get away with something like that because it doesn't really matter cuz it's all narrative and there's no actual rules and mechanics, however with PnP type games you need definition otherwise you get into trouble as there's numbers involved. So I'm looking at this and I want to have more information since you know we got stats to know for the rolling and math part and see nothing of use on that page so I hit the next tab to "rollers" and there I see important information in regards to mechanics.

First lets ignore other tabletop games and think about this purely within the context of itself. If you try to compare it to other games, you're just going to end up picking out things that are different about the system from what you're used to, not necessarily things that are wrong with it.


The Relative Systems exist to describe the strengths and weaknesses of each class. Nothing more. It's for players to look at before they make a decision about who they want to attack. For instance, lets take a General.


You see a General on the map and you want to attack that bro with...hmm...lets say your Mercenary. Now your Mercenary has an Iron Sword. This is going to be relatively useless against the General because you know that the General has Very High Defense, and you can infer that although you're unaware of the exact amount of damage you'll do should you attack that bro, you know it wouldn't be substantial. You can go ahead and go for it if he's already on his last leg, but otherwise it'd be a good idea to give that dude a wide berth.


Now lets say you also have a Mage. You know that General's resistance isn't very high, but you've got some good Magic going for ya. You can probably fuck that guy up real bad.


They don't have numbers, because we're avoiding traditional stats. I don't want you guys calculating how damage you can do on X guy with his defense and your attack, or Y guy with his resistance in comparison to your magic, it's gonna get too mathy and it's going to take 5ever for bros to post. You said it for yourself, this is more freeform, and the narrative is just as important as the game mechanics. At the end of the day, this is an RP that I'd rather have the majority of our work put into the writing and how the characters interact with each other. This isn't just "move this guy here, calculate, attack, done" thing. You have to think about what you wanna do, talk to the other players, figure out the best plan possible, and execute it knowing that some attacks might miss, some special skills might trigger, you might crit a guy, so on and so forth.


In short, Relative Systems aren't supposed to have numbers attached to them and they have 0 effect on rolling.

So having a working brain I can infer that your rollers are connected to these relative systems. The problem is two things (movement is its own problem): You don't establish the relationship between the two things which prompts some questions like if a caster decides to whack someone with his stick would he have two values of ACC, 1 for Physical attacks and another for magic. Does he use the same value but with a modifier? Or is he simply unable to make a psychical attack with his stick?


Then another question that pops in my head the relationship between relative systems, your rollers, and the classes cuz your classes modify your base rollers and they have various ratings on their values, but you don't give enough if any modifiers to the rollers. So lets look at the General he has a high defense in the relative value list except he gets -15 to evasion which is your defense "stat" for all intents and purposes so I again I can only infer your counting his Blocking ability into it despite it only being useful for defending others, but it's odd that the defensive class can't defend himself well.

So we already discussed that the rollers and the relative systems have nothing to do with each other. We talked about the relatives, but we didn't talk about the rollers. The rollers exist only to determine whether or not the attack with land, whether or not it'll be a critical attack, and if someone's going to be able to help you or not. Once you roll, you write the result of the roll and that's it. So again, nothing to do with the Relative Systems. Do you see how comparing this game to others is what's confusing you? I didn't write the relationship between the Relative Systems and the Rollers because there isn't one, they have two separate functions.


Now for the special questions. Staves, as described in the Mechanics, are not melee weapons. Common sense would lend that the staff is far more useful when it's being used for its designated function such as healing or cursing. Hitting a dude with a staff when there are allies on the field with actual pointy weapons just wouldn't be practical. The same goes for the tomes, would you rather hit a dude with a book, or would you rather cast the spell inside the book on that guy. That's just basic logic.


"Then another question that pops in my head the relationship between relative systems, your rollers, and the classes cuz your classes modify your base rollers and they have various ratings on their values, but you don't give enough if any modifiers to the rollers."


I had to separate this out cause it's a contradictory statement and I'm sure you meant something else.


"your classes modify your base rollers and they have various ratings on their values


you don't give enough if any modifiers to the rollers."


I need you to clarify what you mean by that, because it makes no sense. Most classes have one or two modified Base Values for their Rollers. Laguz and Manakete have one for just about all of them because they can't use weapons.


As for the General thing. EVA ≠ Defense. Defense is Defense. He's got real high Defense, and that's how he protects himself. EVA is a Defensive Roller that's used to give a fighting chance at dodging (a defensive maneuver) an incoming attack. The General is wearing real heavy armor, so the probability of him dodging anything is decreased due to his limited mobility. That's fine though, because his job isn't to dodge, his job is being able to take a bunch of hits. He has increased BLOK because in a symbolic way, he's basically a shield. So when you're traveling alongside him and fighting with him, you should feel protected because it's his job to defend.

Anyway the issue with movement is that it's tied to distances and you got that one ranged weapon tag which mention being able to hit almost half across the map which is a very measurable thing but you're abstracting movement rates which means distance means not a whole lot and that gets fucky especially if we have a visual element.

Again, I'm not seeing how this would make anything fucky, especially with a visual element. First you move somewhere on the map, and if you have an Extra Long Range weapon then you look at the map, guesstimate your options knowing that you have half the map to work with, call your enemy, and then if I approve it then you're solid gold. If I say "nah, that's too far mate" then either move closer or pick another target. It's really not as difficult as you're making it for yourself, it's just something that you do by feel, and you'll develop feel as you're playing. We all will.


All in all, it seems like to me you want numbers where there are no numbers, and you want things to mean things that they don't mean based on your previous experience with tabletop games, and that's why you're confusing yourself.


Do you get it now, si or no?


@RubyRose @Orikanyo @theglassangel


How are you guys doing with this stuff? Any questions?

 

[theplasticdemon]

@RubyRose @Orikanyo @theglassangel


How are you guys doing with this stuff? Any questions?

i'm solid ^-^

 

[SirBlazeALot]

i'm solid ^-^

Gr8 m8

 

[Orikanyo]

its pretty much the basic form of the system used in the games. i'm good.

 

[RubyRose]

Alright, lets dissect this piece by piece. You're actually overthinking this, and that's my fault, I tried to be clear and concise but. Ya know. Being human and all. Can't catch 'em all.
First lets ignore other tabletop games and think about this purely within the context of itself. If you try to compare it to other games, you're just going to end up picking out things that are different about the system from what you're used to, not necessarily things that are wrong with it.


The Relative Systems exist to describe the strengths and weaknesses of each class. Nothing more. It's for players to look at before they make a decision about who they want to attack. For instance, lets take a General.


You see a General on the map and you want to attack that bro with...hmm...lets say your Mercenary. Now your Mercenary has an Iron Sword. This is going to be relatively useless against the General because you know that the General has Very High Defense, and you can infer that although you're unaware of the exact amount of damage you'll do should you attack that bro, you know it wouldn't be substantial. You can go ahead and go for it if he's already on his last leg, but otherwise it'd be a good idea to give that dude a wide berth.


Now lets say you also have a Mage. You know that General's resistance isn't very high, but you've got some good Magic going for ya. You can probably fuck that guy up real bad.


They don't have numbers, because we're avoiding traditional stats. I don't want you guys calculating how damage you can do on X guy with his defense and your attack, or Y guy with his resistance in comparison to your magic, it's gonna get too mathy and it's going to take 5ever for bros to post. You said it for yourself, this is more freeform, and the narrative is just as important as the game mechanics. At the end of the day, this is an RP that I'd rather have the majority of our work put into the writing and how the characters interact with each other. This isn't just "move this guy here, calculate, attack, done" thing. You have to think about what you wanna do, talk to the other players, figure out the best plan possible, and execute it knowing that some attacks might miss, some special skills might trigger, you might crit a guy, so on and so forth.


In short, Relative Systems aren't supposed to have numbers attached to them and they have 0 effect on rolling.


So we already discussed that the rollers and the relative systems have nothing to do with each other. We talked about the relatives, but we didn't talk about the rollers. The rollers exist only to determine whether or not the attack with land, whether or not it'll be a critical attack, and if someone's going to be able to help you or not. Once you roll, you write the result of the roll and that's it. So again, nothing to do with the Relative Systems. Do you see how comparing this game to others is what's confusing you? I didn't write the relationship between the Relative Systems and the Rollers because there isn't one, they have two separate functions.


Now for the special questions. Staves, as described in the Mechanics, are not melee weapons. Common sense would lend that the staff is far more useful when it's being used for its designated function such as healing or cursing. Hitting a dude with a staff when there are allies on the field with actual pointy weapons just wouldn't be practical. The same goes for the tomes, would you rather hit a dude with a book, or would you rather cast the spell inside the book on that guy. That's just basic logic.


"Then another question that pops in my head the relationship between relative systems, your rollers, and the classes cuz your classes modify your base rollers and they have various ratings on their values, but you don't give enough if any modifiers to the rollers."


I had to separate this out cause it's a contradictory statement and I'm sure you meant something else.


"your classes modify your base rollers and they have various ratings on their values


you don't give enough if any modifiers to the rollers."


I need you to clarify what you mean by that, because it makes no sense. Most classes have one or two modified Base Values for their Rollers. Laguz and Manakete have one for just about all of them because they can't use weapons.


As for the General thing. EVA ≠ Defense. Defense is Defense. He's got real high Defense, and that's how he protects himself. EVA is a Defensive Roller that's used to give a fighting chance at dodging (a defensive maneuver) an incoming attack. The General is wearing real heavy armor, so the probability of him dodging anything is decreased due to his limited mobility. That's fine though, because his job isn't to dodge, his job is being able to take a bunch of hits. He has increased BLOK because in a symbolic way, he's basically a shield. So when you're traveling alongside him and fighting with him, you should feel protected because it's his job to defend.


Again, I'm not seeing how this would make anything fucky, especially with a visual element. First you move somewhere on the map, and if you have an Extra Long Range weapon then you look at the map, guesstimate your options knowing that you have half the map to work with, call your enemy, and then if I approve it then you're solid gold. If I say "nah, that's too far mate" then either move closer or pick another target. It's really not as difficult as you're making it for yourself, it's just something that you do by feel, and you'll develop feel as you're playing. We all will.


All in all, it seems like to me you want numbers where there are no numbers, and you want things to mean things that they don't mean based on your previous experience with tabletop games, and that's why you're confusing yourself.


Do you get it now, si or no?


@RubyRose @Orikanyo @theglassangel


How are you guys doing with this stuff? Any questions?

I'm still trying to get things figured out but that's more on putting things into perspective for myself, and not a lack on your part. I get the basic idea, I believe, and that... this is going to be a bit more us writing it and less math stat stuff, but you've added numbers to things that people could quite honestly be a bit... unfair about. "My character dodged every attack or is hit by every attack"... it's hard to regulate that on pure writing so you've given us a chance to play it by actual chance and then write it into an actual cool sequence....So I think I'm getting a grasp on it. Don't test me yet though, professor; still don't think I'd pass

 

[SirBlazeALot]

its pretty much the basic form of the system used in the games. i'm good.

Swaggy