Other Anyone part of the lgbt community?

[Pine]

honestly love me a good het romance sometimes?? but it kind of makes me sad that im saying that because it just seems like i've rarely ever seen a well-developed, healthy gay relationship in a show/movie, unless that's what the show/movie is specifically about (and i don't really watch those too much bc romance as a central focus tends to bore me). like usually all the gay relationships ive seen were just so obviously token ones either for comedic relief or just not given the same attention that the het romance (which it's undoubtedly being shown alongside) and/or The Gays are just being kinky biches and just?? like it saddens me that i don't automatically praise the media representation of relationships which SHOULD resonate with me more but DON'T because i'm so hard-pressed to find them, if that makes sense ajsjdjgjg.

but in general when i say i love a Good Straight Romance i mean that those are hard to find as well. a lot of movies ive seen felt to me like the existing romance was underdeveloped and completely unneeded and like it just seems to exist because idk whoever is directing it feels the NEED to give their main protag some romance and just shoves Him with the nearest & hottest Token Girl and like... the type of romances are so often repeated and formulaic and it's FRUSTRATING to watch because their relationships are so obviously like the director's OTP and they're MEANT TO BE TOGETHER but they end up glorifying shit that's actually unhealthy to have in relationships like poor communication and jealousy. like im honestly so into watching a pairing with poor relationship dynamics because those are really common irl but it just seems like they're never shown TO BE bad.

but i can't even target that complaint to just het romances only. like it happens with gay romances too (most of the time when there's some overtly huge age difference it's shown in gay pairings :/) but it's just that straight romances are EVERYWHERE so that ends up being what i pay attention to more. and like with f/f it always seems to be played off as eye candy for a male audience in shows/movies and m/m in rping tends to be straight girls fetishizing gay guys right back. rpers in general that really like romance seem to pair their character with the "best looking" fc and just shoving their characters together as an otp and NEVER have their character seriously breakup and date another character and the character/relationship dynamic doesnt necessarily make sense and/or they Make it make sense by playing their characters ooc just for the sake of Two Hot Young Things that match their sexual orientation to satisfy some baser need on the rper's part for romance. also characters with the potential to be bi (or any other more-than-one attraction) tend to get boned because they either discover they were just Gay And Confused or that the het relationship was Best For Them. im not even going to mention trans romance because it basically doesn't exist [seriously] in mainstream media.

so basically what kib said but just with more emphasis on how predictable and repetitive bad romances usually are, and whether it's straight or gay doesn't really matter all too much bc het relationships are disproportionately shown all the time anyway

 

[The Gunrunner]

I'm a heterosexual... er... mostly, but I have a question that I hope someone with some knowledge on gender can answer. My understanding of the definition (when used in this context) is behaviour that revolves around the ideals of gender roles; so someone who acts feminine may consider themselves a woman in adherence to gender, for example. However, the question I have is why this is used at all, especially in feminism or social justice where gender roles are certainly seen as outdated. I'm not asking in an attempt of a 'gotcha,' but I'm confused over it. And of course if I've misunderstood the whole thing then do please let me know.

 

[kibou]

I'm a heterosexual... er... mostly, but I have a question

I hope I can explain well! Also sorry in advance this got really long and I'm not sure if I'm even explaining it well.

There's a lot of stuff you brought up so I'll try to go over it all.

Most trans people don't think "well I like fighting in mud and trucks and punching people so I must be a trans man" or "well I like wearing skirts and children and baking or makeup so I must be a woman," since you're right, that doesn't make a ton of sense. There's plenty of cis men who like wearing skirts or makeup, and plenty of cis women like fighting or cars or being straight-forward. These are all really stereotypical examples, but the point is that your aesthetic preferences, clothes, hobbies, or even personality don't make you your gender.

The whole thing about gender roles being outdated- that usually refers to the "roles" different genders are expected to play in society- e.g, women staying at home being moms, dads having careers and providing for the family, or in a more general sense that arbitrary things have traits that make them gendered. Like pink being girly or blue being manly when there's no real reason behind it- this kind of idea usually extends to aforementioned hobbies and clothes, but can also includes jobs, or anything that doesn't directly have to do with one's sex. Why is a v-neck shirt girly? Why are families with stay at home dads and working moms seen as wrong? Anyone should just be able to do/wear what they want/act how they please regardless of gender if it's not harming anyone and clothes and colors and jobs and personality types aren't inherently gendered because that's something that's cultural instead of biological. Different countries and time periods have had very different ideas of what's masculine and what's feminine.

Of course cultural gender roles aren't going to disappear any time soon and many people can relate to masculinity or femininity, cis or not.

What separates cis girls who, say, like wearing boy's clothes from trans men is usually gender dysphoria and euphoria. Dysphoria will be the one more people recognize and there's two "main kinds", social and physical,

Physical dysphoria is hard to describe but it's varying levels of dissatisfaction or discomfort with your physical body, usually centered around gendered traits. For a trans man, that could be a high voice, wide hips, chest, lack of facial hair, higher fat percentage. Anything that's basically a primary or secondary sex characteristic is a candidate to cause dysphoria, although different things bother different people more. Some trans men might not want facial hair for example! The same general concept applies to trans women as well.

Social dysphoria is dissatisfaction/discomfort with how other people perceive you and not being seen as your gender and often causes physical dysphoria as well- if someone can't come out, doesn't pass well, or for whatever reason gets treated as the gender they were born as or called the wrong pronouns it can cause feelings of dysphoria (which contrary to popular belief most people just live with and don't scream shit like "did u assume my gender" because they're conscious of how and why they're perceived different ways lel)

Euphoria is varying levels of excitement/happiness/etc when your appearance or how you're treated matches up with how you feel.

And don't get me wrong, the discomfort from dysphoria can be intense and hard to live with. Transitioning medically and/or socially has been proven to improve mental health in trans people, and reduce dysphoria greatly. A lot of trans people need to transition in order to alleviate painful dysphoria.

It is pretty complicated, and not every single trans person wants to be the stereotypical embodiment of masculinity or femininity, but let's be real, most people aren't going to take a trans man seriously if he likes wearing makeup or other feminine things, or doesn't act the way society thinks men should act. Some trans women want to be girly and feminine as shit and some trans men would never want to touch makeup again. It's all personal and depends on the individual, but for many there's constant societal pressure to "prove" you're "really a man/women" through behavior.

Also as a side, not every trans person thinks gender roles don't exist/are outdated either, and not every feminist believes trans people are "real" either, though, and there'll probably always be debate over these kinds of things. It's frustrating to say "it depends on the individual" a lot, but it's true.

So tl;dr it mostly boils down to internal feelings, and not necessarily actions or behaviors.

 

[The Gunrunner]

Thanks for responding. I took what you said in mind and also did some more reading with hopes to not make a mistake like that again. I do have another question though.

For transgenderism, thusfar it's seemed like it has to do with dysphoria, as you've said, but also possibly with hormone differences; trans women having biological differences to cis men which, as one listed example, causes less testosterone to the brain. This causing it to be less 'masculinized.' Is this an example of why there's a distinction between gender and sex?

 

[kibou]

There isn't one set cause that's known to result in being trans, and in most aspects of human differences psychology usually concludes that it's a combination of nature and nurture. There also isn't a ton of scientific research on trans people yet and no one seems to be able to agree. We don't even know why people are gay yet!

I think what you mentioned is possible, but at the same time, I know a trans man and have read other's experience with being on birth control sometime before transitioning (since you can't be on it and T and the same time)- which if you don't know, birth control is essentially female hormones. Even while having estrogen and progestin from birth control in their bodies, they still experienced dysphoria and were basically still trans. I think I read one person say their dysphoria had worsened after stopping birth control, but that implies that it was still there while he was on it.

That's all anecdotal, and I've also heard of studies where trans people have brains more similar to the other sex, although I haven't read them myself.

So there's no real one answer to "why" someone might be trans, and I think dysphoria is more like a symptom than a cause necessarily.

For ease most people simplify sex as physical characteristics and gender as mental/internal, other people disagree with the sentiment but at that point it's mostly semantics.

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

White Christian bi girl here. Tends toward male behaviours/dress but still would consider myself cis. In person I have only come out to a few people due to a religious family and a preference to avoid becoming a lab rat for someone who deserved an OCS call.

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

I like RP romance, though it generally won't progress too quickly as I often transfer my current trust levels to my characters. I do tend toward straight pairings as that is what I was raised with and I really am still figuring myself out, but I have included more.
And I really think that whether a person is trans, gay, bi, cis, or anything else for that matter is theirs to know and decide. If they come out to you, support them. But don't try to force them into something because they don't fit your stereotype of what a man/woman should be (like saying a woman must be a trans man because she avoids makeup and heels).

 

[Pine]

That's all anecdotal, and I've also heard of studies where trans people have brains more similar to the other sex, although I haven't read them myself.

i haven't looked into them as much, so maybe there's other studies that have been done and suggest other types of dimorphism in trans brains, but i know a big one is the ratio of gray to white matter in the brain. iirc ciswomen have more white matter and transwomen's brains match that and vice versa for transmen and gray matter. but there's a LOT of research that still needs to be done and shared because we don't even know all the benefits/risks of hormone replacement therapy and a lot of physicians that don't specialize in trans people don't really know how to deal with them. you'll also catch ppl saying shit like "there aren't any studies supporting non-binary genders" and it's like...... yeah
.......... im pretty sure studies On non-binary genders basically don't exist, so ofc there aren't studies supporting them.

also side note about how when ive gotten to a point in my medical transition where im comfortably seen as my gender im going to pick up some of those dresses with pockets and rock them because hot damn. and another side note that i laughcry at sometimes is how they originally thought that guys that were gay just had some testosterone deficiency so they prescribed them with taking more t but t is related to sex drive so they basically just made a bunch of gay guys have a higher libido which is like the exact opposite of what they wanted ajsjdjgjgkfhs

 

[Hall Kervean]

Since most of what I hear about gay love irl is from conservatives and Christians who think we'll go to hell or that we're evil or that any non-straight relationship won't end well. .

That's me o.o
Well, according to the Bible, gay people go to hell.
But Jesus loves the person, not the sin. They're not going to hell because God hates them, they're going to hell because it's a sin.
Gay people usually aren't evil.
I recall hearing that non-straight relationships have a higher chance of not ending well, and it's backed up by statistics. But if I misheard and it's not backed up, then it's not true. Dat's how facts work usually.

Anyways, how do all of y'all non-heterosexual individuals feel about straight romance (whether RPing it or reading/watching it)?

;-; i've been excluded.

 

[SimplyMrNiko]

As a tans man, ftm, i have to agree with everything that has been said. but i also want to touch on that its not that isnt in dysphoria every trans individual its based on the person themselves. i have a very hard time with dysohoria because of the way i look. it really does deal with mental health. i have a hard time dealing with it. its hard to think about as well because there was a good point made about doctors, most of the time they dont really care about our health in general, let alone the mental health that comes along with it. it really does suck most of the time because im afraid to go to a doctor about this because i dont trust them at all with my health.

to touch on relationships my gf of 8 months handled it really well when i came out to her. she is very suportive and loves me no matter what. she knows how to deal with my dysphoria and has never treated me differently. im not sure if this helps or if im just repeating others people information, and if i am im sorry. thanks for reading

 

[kibou]

Eh I've heard it all before, my entire life the environment I've lived in has been made up of mostly Christians, and I've heard many different Christian perspectives on the whole gay thing- every time someone's tried to give me a different perspective it's one I'm already very familiar with. I used to be super fundamentalist and homophobic, and here I am now. Suuuper gay.

Hi, I'm a straight white Christian cisgender conservative male and the embodiment of everything the LGBT community stands against.

I think you've got it backwards. Lots of lgbt people are also Christian, or have been in the past, or belong to a different religion, and I think people who hate religion are in the minority even in lgbt spaces. No one really cares about anyone's religion or lack of it honestly, unless someone is going out of their way to cause problems.

Well, according to the Bible, gay people go to hell.
But Jesus loves the person, not the sin. They're not going to hell because God hates them, they're going to hell because it's a sin.

I mean god can make his own rules and the Christian god has decided he wants to send gay people to hell, and regardless of whether or not it's nature or nurture by the time someone has developed their sexuality, it's been proven that suppression is psychologically unhealthy and it's definitely unhealthy to repress parts of your personality, be ashamed of them, etc. You cannot change your sexuality by force.

Conversion therapy is genuinely dangerous, and lgbt minors who have experienced rejection from peers and family are 8 times more likely to commit suicide. (x)

Hating the sin is still hating something that is a important and integral part of many people, and often being lgbt can impact someone's life in a lot of ways, for better or worse.

It's as if I'd approach you and say "Hey I hate your religion/think it's immoral/etc, and you'll suffer for eternity for it, but you're okay!" I don't hate Christianity and this is only an example, but you can see why some people might be genuinely hurt by statements like that.

Anyways, as it's in human nature everyone sins every day, and as long as you accept Jesus into your heart you go to heaven, right? That might be a simplification but why is being in love with members of the same sex singled out so much above all other sins (such as murder, rape, cheating on your partner, etc?) Why would only being gay be an immediate hell sentence? You can't make the argument that it's because it's a conscious decision to continually sin when every single one of your actions is completely and only your choice, and every time you sin, it's conscious decision.

 

[Hall Kervean]

Eh I've heard it all before, my entire life the environment I've lived in has been made up of mostly Christians, and I've heard many different Christian perspectives on the whole gay thing- every time someone's tried to give me a different perspective it's one I'm already very familiar with. I used to be super fundamentalist and homophobic, and here I am now.



I think you've got it backwards. Lots of lgbt people are also Christian, or have been in the past, or belong to a different religion, and I think people who hate religion are in the minority even in lgbt spaces. No one really cares about anyone's religion or lack of it honestly, unless someone is going out of their way to cause problems.



I mean god can make his own rules and the Christian god has decided he wants to send gay people to hell, and regardless of whether or not it's nature or nurture by the time someone has developed their sexuality, it's been proven that suppression is psychologically unhealthy and it's definitely unhealthy to repress parts of your personality, be ashamed of them, etc. You cannot change your sexuality by force.

Conversion therapy is genuinely dangerous, and lgbt minors who have experienced rejection from peers and family are 8 times more likely to commit suicide. (x)

Hating the sin is still hating something that is a important and integral part of many people, and often being lgbt can impact someone's life in a lot of ways, for better or worse.

It's as if I'd approach you and say "Hey I hate your religion/think it's immoral/etc, and you'll suffer for eternity for it, but you're okay!" I don't hate Christianity and this is only an example, but you can see why some people might be genuinely hurt by statements like that.

Anyways, as it's in human nature everyone sins every day, and as long as you accept Jesus into your heart you go to heaven, right? Why is being in love with members of the same sex singled out so much above all other sins (such as murder, rape, cheating on your partner, etc)? Why would only being gay be an immediate hell sentence? You can't make the argument that it's because it's a conscious decision to continually sin when every single one of your actions is completely and only your choice, and every time you sin, it's conscious decision.

Lul just saying that I'm the embodiment of what many people feel are the oppressors. I just found that humorous.
I didn't say to force someone to go straight, it's their choice. I think that it's the right choice, but it's not my choice to make.
Hating the sin is not hating the person. It's hating the choice they make. It's important to make a distinction, I think. For example, Milo Yiannopoulos (bear with me) said that when he spoke with some people, they said that they "Didn't like his lifestyle choices, but were appreciative of his work." That's how people should act, I think. Disliking the choices made, but understanding that that's not the person, and the person is more likely than not to be a decent human being.
I don't see how anyone could be hurt by that. I'm not hurt in the least, Idk why someone would be.
Yeet. Lemme explain how this works: If you believe and repent, then you get into heaven. Someone who is gay may believe Jesus exists, but since they haven't repented, they aren't getting in. Same with pretty much every other sin. A slip-up is forgivable; living a lifestyle in sin is not, and being gay is a lifestyle. That was my point, sorry if you misunderstood it. If I need to, I can try to clarify it further.
Believe me, I am disgusted by the Christians holding up signs saying "God hates gays" almost as much as you are. It's literally violating the verse that says "Speak the truth in love." Ephesians 4:15. Be my guest to use that.
Tl;dr, I don't like the choices of some people, but I still love them Christ would have me love them.

 

[kibou]

it's their choice. It's hating the choice they make. It's important to make a distinction, I think.
I don't see how anyone could be hurt by that.
Yeet.
Believe me, I am disgusted by the Christians holding up signs saying "God hates gays" almost as much as you are. .

People who oppose, or even "don't agree with," being gay are, frankly, the reason gay people have problems. Why people are still trying to get gay marriage repealed, why conversion therapy is still legal in most states, etc. I dunno how to explain better that telling people they're sinning is equivalent to calling them immoral or evil, and even if you don't actively oppose gay rights or anything, may others with the same mindset do. It's not you specifically that I have a problem with, but the whole condemnation of being gay that's presented as "I hate the sin, not you."

Being gay isn't a choice, sexuality cannot be changed, and repression is psychologically unhealthy. I'm sure straight people can't force themselves to be gay, and if you were forced by your family to marry a man, or even just to never have any relationships ever, you'd be unhappy right? Most people would be.

I'm saying that even something as much as telling minors they will burn in hell or telling them that an integral part of them is a sin will be perceived as rejection, and being told that as long as they suppress their feelings it'll be okay, or to repent for being who they are, will lead to shame surrounding those feelings and higher rates of mental illness such as depression.

The attitude of discouraging a "gay lifestyle" in favor of a straight one encourages the idea of conversion therapy to help people live a straight lifestyle. Conversion therapy can lead to severe emotional damage.

 

[Pine]

and being gay is a lifestyle.

okay but the thing is that a lot of people especially in the lgbt community and including myself do not view being gay as a choice. attraction is an innate feeling, and the choice is whether or not to be happy and follow through with those feelings or to try to repress those feelings which is extremely taxing on people's mental health!! i have a friend that was raised christian and is bi and he's been so conflicted about this for years because he's mostly attracted to men and he's tried SO HARD to bury those feelings because he strongly believed it was a sin, but i think he's come to realize it's just... not something he can help and by not accepting that part of himself he was causing himself so much stress. i think this boils down to the core differences in our perspective: being attracted to the same sex is a choice v. something that's involuntary. there's no way of changing my mind on this and i doubt i can convince you otherwise, but i'll leave you with this: did you make a conscious to be straight? to be attracted to women?

Lul just saying that I'm the embodiment of what many people feel are the oppressors.

also what kib was saying wasn't directed at you 100% personally im pretty sure. the point is that this discourse between christians and lgbt didn't start with gays denouncing christianity. it started with the criminalization of people caught doing "homosexual activities," homosexuality being classified a "mental illness" (later removed from the dsm), and the continued attempts in states such as texas iirc attempting to take away the rights of couples in same-sex marriage that are still granted without qualms to those in het marriages. you may only view the "homosexual lifestyle" as a choice that will land us in eternal damnation post-mortem but take a c'est la vie approach to whether or not these people are evil, but there IS a large body of people that are trying to bar us from making that "choice" in this present life within the christian faith. i think to say/believe that lgbt have some inherent [baseless] resentment towards christianity is misguided, and again, erases people that are lgbt AND christian from the narrative.

 

[AmbiguouslyAnonymous]

Hello everyone, I am pansexual~
I've never came out to anyone irl though. I plan to never come out, either, unless I end up marrying a guy, but seeing as I'd like to have at least one biologically related kid, that probably won't be happening.

 

[Pine]

but seeing as I'd like to have at least one biologically related kid, that probably won't be happening.

!! are you familiar with in vitro fertilization? (and there are other forms of assisted reproductive technology im p sure but that's just what comes immediately to mind and i just wanted to make sure u've heard about this stuff at least once if u haven't already aa)

 

[AmbiguouslyAnonymous]

!! are you familiar with in vitro fertilization? (and there are other forms of assisted reproductive technology im p sure but that's just what comes immediately to mind and i just wanted to make sure u've heard about this stuff at least once if u haven't already aa)

Oh, yeah I've heard of it (well not the name of the process but I've heard of the process itself), but correct me if I'm wrong, but then wouldn't the child only be related to me and not my spouse, but instead some random person that gives the egg? I'd personally prefer that if I had a biological child, he or she was related to both me and my lover. If not, I'd just adopt instead (which I'm actually already planning to do already).

 

[Pine]

oh nah dude u right. i would say that both you and your partner could have children with your own respective sperm, but i know that isn't the same as having a children that's completely biologically both of yours. i do know, however, that you can make the choice in the egg you use and get like a profile of that person's looks/health history, and i think ive heard stories of like someone's partner's sibling carry the child for them? but again yeah still not exactly what you're looking for, i'm sure.

 

[Hall Kervean]

People who oppose, or even "don't agree with," being gay are, frankly, the reason gay people have problems. Why people are still trying to get gay marriage repealed, why conversion therapy is still legal in most states, etc. I dunno how to explain better that telling people they're sinning is equivalent to calling them immoral or evil, and even if you don't actively oppose gay rights or anything, may others with the same mindset do. It's not you specifically that I have a problem with, but the whole condemnation of being gay that's presented as "I hate the sin, not you."

Being gay isn't a choice, sexuality cannot be changed, and repression is psychologically unhealthy. I'm sure straight people can't force themselves to be gay, and if you were forced by your family to marry a man, or even just to never have any relationships ever, you'd be unhappy right? Most people would be.

I'm saying that even something as much as telling minors they will burn in hell or telling them that an integral part of them is a sin will be perceived as rejection, and being told that as long as they suppress their feelings it'll be okay, or to repent for being who they are, will lead to shame surrounding those feelings and higher rates of mental illness such as depression.

The attitude of discouraging a "gay lifestyle" in favor of a straight one encourages the idea of conversion therapy to help people live a straight lifestyle. Conversion therapy can lead to severe emotional damage.

No, the reason gays have problems is the fact that there are people who hate gay people. They hate the people, not the act, and want them drowned at birth. And that's a serious problem.
Because it's what we Christians view as a step towards further sin acceptance, and a decline of purity in America. Idk what conversion therapy is. If it's talking to people throughout the process of becoming straight again and helping them along the way, then... I don't see a problem with it. If it's what Pence was *accused* of saying, then I am against it, that's a stupid decision.
I do! I do! Memememe! You could say that what they're doing is wrong. Gay people, for the most part, are generally not evil or immoral people (I say for the most part because in every group ever there are exceptions.).
I am glad to hear that, thank you! But the thing is, you need to denote who is who and not lump those who hat gay people and those who hate the gay in people together. One dislikes the lifestyle but loves the person, the other thinks that since it was tainted it should be drowned, which, again, is stupid.
We had a speaker at our church who said that one night she and her girlfriend read the bible and chose, that night, to stop being lesbians. So it is possible.
I would be because I believe it's a sin, so... we can't use that example. Because there are outside factors. But to never have any relationships ever is totally fine with me.
First one is speak the truth in love. That is never a good way to start a discussion. The thing is, though, I don't see how it's an integral part. I like females, but it's not my defining feature, or even a main one. It's a minor addition to me.
I don't understand this one. How can being told that something that is a part of is bad be perceived as rejection? If my family told me that the Star Wars prequels were terrible and they don't like the fact that I like them, then that's fine. Idc. If they hated me for my prequel-love, then we'd have an issue.
Ah, I see what you did there. You wrote "to repent for being who they are" as a command. See, is should have been written as a suggestion, and as only part of them. "I would like to see you in heaven because I care deeply for you, so if I may request, could you please stop being gay?" Sounds a lot better than "repent for being who you are." And the former should be how it is gone about, not the former.
I don't see a problem with it if it is helping someone do what they believe is right. It sounds like most of the time it's their choice, and so it's helpful.

okay but the thing is that a lot of people especially in the lgbt community and including myself do not view being gay as a choice. attraction is an innate feeling, and the choice is whether or not to be happy and follow through with those feelings or to try to repress those feelings which is extremely taxing on people's mental health!! i have a friend that was raised christian and is bi and he's been so conflicted about this for years because he's mostly attracted to men and he's tried SO HARD to bury those feelings because he strongly believed it was a sin, but i think he's come to realize it's just... not something he can help and by not accepting that part of himself he was causing himself so much stress. i think this boils down to the core differences in our perspective: being attracted to the same sex is a choice v. something that's involuntary. there's no way of changing my mind on this and i doubt i can convince you otherwise, but i'll leave you with this: did you make a conscious to be straight? to be attracted to women?



also what kib was saying wasn't directed at you 100% personally im pretty sure. the point is that this discourse between christians and lgbt didn't start with gays denouncing christianity. it started with the criminalization of people caught doing "homosexual activities," homosexuality being classified a "mental illness" (later removed from the dsm), and the continued attempts in states such as texas iirc attempting to take away the rights of couples in same-sex marriage that are still granted without qualms to those in het marriages. you may only view the "homosexual lifestyle" as a choice that will land us in eternal damnation post-mortem but take a c'est la vie approach to whether or not these people are evil, but there IS a large body of people that are trying to bar us from making that "choice" in this present life within the christian faith. i think to say/believe that lgbt have some inherent [baseless] resentment towards christianity is misguided, and again, erases people that are lgbt AND christian from the narrative.

Again, a speaker came who told us about how she was once a lesbian and overnight chose to no longer become a lesbian. She and her girlfriend. So that's where I'm coming from. Plus, I'm not taxed in my mental health, even though I've never followed through with my feelings. Oftentimes I repress them.
I thoroughly believe that your friend is a good dude. And I'm proud of him for trying. I hope he'll be able to change his mind, but other than that, best of luck to him.
If I said sometimes, I'd be accused of not following through with my argument. If I said no, then I'd be accused of demonstrating that it is clear that attraction is automatic. And if I try to say that no because it's natural, I could be accused of implying that gay people are unnatural. So I think I'll decline to answer.

Oh ye I have 0 doubt. I honestly feel like everyone talking about this has been very good and kind. I really think it's because of how great you guys are. I was jokingly referring to the fact that I was literally everything that the left dislikes. I'm white, I'm cisgender, I'm Christian, I'm male, I'm straight, and I'm conservative. It just seemed funny, so I thought I'd show up and say howdy.
If you mean like gays being thrown off rooftops in ISIS territories and just being gay being illegal in muslim countries... well, it's still going on there.
It's because those states feel that their rights were violated. They felt that it was their right to choose whether or not gay marriage was legal, and when the government decided for them, well, they did their best in retaliation to the government's decision to limit gay marriages.
Take it from our perspective. From our perspective, we are doing our very best, against the government's wishes, to help you. We believe that being gay is a choice, and since we care so much about you and want you to be in heaven, we are willing to take drastic action to bring you in. You may not see it this way, but we're doing it out of love. There's a point where it's misguided love, but that point isn't always crossed.
tl;dr for both: There are people who hate gays, and people who hate the gay lifestyle, but the latter wants gays into heaven, and the former is literally dangerous. We realize we can't force anyone to do anything, but we do our best to get gays into heaven. A chief difference is that some people believe being gay is a choice and others believe it's involuntary. Christians, including myself, believe it's a choice, and many believe it's involuntary.

 

[Hall Kervean]

If at any point you think I'm being disruptive to the themes of the thread, please tell me. It's not my intent in any way.

 

[kibou]

Conversion therapy is intended to change one's sexual orientation but when put into practice damages lgbt youth (and adults, but youth are often forced into it by their parents) and can lead to emotional damage, depression, suicide, etc.

Someone saying you have shitty taste in movies isn't really comparable to being a minor threatened with hellfire for being gay, and if you can't understand how being told to suppress and repress yourself might lead to feelings of shame around homosexuality or feeling rejection, I really don't know how to explain it better.

Being killed isn't the only problem gay people face for being gay, although that is still relevant in modern, first-world countries.

It seems a bit contradictory to say you love gay people and go on about normalizing sin and encouraging people to change their sexuality when efforts to do so usually do not go well.

I've heard a lot of stories from different people over the years I've attended church and I don't believe all of them. If two people decided to stop dating other girls after reading a bible passage, and they're living perfectly happy lives, I think that'd rather be the exception than the norm and that their actual attraction to girls wasn't "cured" at all, but that they were "lucky" enough to be able to ignore it without much problem.

Modern psychology supports my positions as well, and I could find some links for you if you'd like.

But since we fundamentally disagree on whether or not sexuality is a choice and whether or not the hell you're trying to keep us from is real, I don't think this will go anywhere further.

I don't know how to explain what it's like to be lgbt and surrounded by people who "hate the sin" without getting way more personal than I'd like to, lol.

 

[Hall Kervean]

Conversion therapy is intended to change one's sexual orientation but when put into practice damages lgbt youth (and adults, but youth are often forced into it by their parents) and can lead to emotional damage, depression, suicide, etc.

Someone saying you have shitty taste in movies isn't really comparable to being a minor threatened with hellfire for being gay, and if you can't understand how being told to suppress and repress yourself might lead to feelings of shame around homosexuality or feeling rejection, I really don't know how to explain it better.

Being killed isn't the only problem gay people face for being gay, although that is still relevant in modern, first-world countries.

It seems a bit contradictory to say you love gay people and go on about normalizing sin and encouraging people to change their sexuality when efforts to do so usually do not go well.

I've heard a lot of stories from different people over the years I've attended church and I don't believe all of them. If two people decided to stop dating other girls after reading a bible passage, and they're living perfectly happy lives, I think that'd rather be the exception than the norm and that their actual attraction to girls wasn't "cured" at all, but that they were "lucky" enough to be able to ignore it without much problem.
Modern psychology supports my positions as well, and I could find some links for you if you'd like.

But since we fundamentally disagree on whether or not sexuality is a choice and whether or not the hell you're trying to keep us from is real, I don't think this will go anywhere further.

I don't know how to explain what it's like to be lgbt and surrounded by people who "hate the sin" without getting way more personal than I'd like to, lol.

Well, again, forcing kids to do it is against their will, and that's not good. But if people aren't being forced to and they're having problems, you know what it means? That maybe conversion therapy needs to be improved.
I don't see how it's a whole lot different. More minor, maybe, but still applicable. And I don't think hellfire was a part of your example or mine, specifically. In your example, you were discussing about saying that the integral part of them was bad was scarring or rejecting, and I said I didn't see it that way. We were discussing earthly consequences, not eternal ones.
I can understand it fam. I know that if I don't suppress my heterosexual feelings towards my crush I'll get rejected. Izzat along the lines of wut u mean?
In... first world countries? Gay aren't being killed in first world countries. In Western countries (and the Bible, I might add), we've moved beyond that. There isn't any murder of gays going on here. There is in ISIS-controlled territories, in many Third-world countries, and in Islamic countries, but not here. Neither is imprisonment.
I said "Christians" for the first one, not "I," although it more or less applies. Aside from that, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Leviticus 18:22. God calls it not just a sin,; he calls it an abomination. By supporting an "abomination," as the Bible puts it, we fear further leniency in America towards other, even (bear with me) worse things. Our ultimate fear is of reverting to Noah's day.
Encouraging is a better word for it. Basically, I don't agree with forcing your child into it. I agree with people who want to become straight again, and if conversion therapy is damaging, then we need to fix it, not remove it.
She and her girlfriend had been lesbians for years, and may have even gotten married to each other. Of course there were things leading up to that night with the Bible, but they did quit cold turkey. Which I believe helps for the case of "choice."
Tru. Nice chatting.
'at's fine. Feel free to use the "share the truth in love" verse. But try and make a distinction between those who dislike the choice and those who dislike someone because of the choice.
Do you have any idea how nervous I am about pissing people off lol. That is entirely not my goal here.

 

[kibou]

im not gonna respond after this but

gay and trans people do get killed. remember the pulse shooting? it's the biggest shooting in us history. happened last year. something being illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and it's most risky for transwomen.

I can understand it fam. I know that if I don't suppress my heterosexual feelings towards my crush I'll get rejected. Izzat along the lines of wut u mean?

plz

 

[Hall Kervean]

im not gonna respond after this but

gay and trans people do get killed. remember the pulse shooting? it's the biggest shooting in us history. happened last year. something being illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and it's most risky for transwomen.



plz

I was talking about public and governmentally sanctioned killings. Not a terrorist attack by one of the entities I mentioned previously, ISIS. Sorry if there was any confusion there.

 

[thoughtless]

Idk what I am but I'm not straight lmao I know that much.

I also don't really like straight romances because they always feel lacking to me??? Idk?? But yeahhh I usually stick to FxF media.

I'm unsure of why anyone would advocate for conversion therapy being improved when it's literally been proven time and time again that trying to forcefully change someone's sexuality only ever leads to depression, other mental health issues, and most commonly suicide. And I don't mean "forcefully" as in that someone was forced into conversion therapy, but more than you're trying to change something that can't easily be changed by external factors. Although I personally believe that sexuality can change and that a person who thought that they were straight can realize that they're not (mostly because they previously were under the influence of their internalized homophobia), that still should not be changed through therapy and instead should be allowed to come naturally as a person goes through life.

There's also the fact that by tacking the word "therapy" onto the name it's virtually labeling anything other than straight as a disorder of some kind that needs to be healed or fixed, which is pretty damaging to a person in and of itself.

Also, I personally think that hating the sin and not the sinner stuff is bs. It's still calling homosexuality a sin and since that "sin" is how we live and love, then yes you are very much hating the sinner when you say that phrase. Never mind that it insinuates that we chose to be gay/bi/trans/etc.