[WIP] OP characters that people often fail to recognize

[Idea]

One thing that ticked me off ever since I started participating in group RPs was the lenience with which characters got approved. It appears that unless you strictly contradict the GM you are not likely to fail approval (unless the GM said no overpowered characters in that case people seem to get away with it all the time).


After taking a look at the character feedback too, I felt the need to speak of this topic.


If are, plan on being or have ever been a GM, do consider these types of OP characters that generally seem to get approaved without second thought:


1.Large Scale [insert something]


This is very, very common one to the point where it has gone back and forth from cliche several times.


It consists of making a certain trait (say speed) above the average more than just slightly.


Doesn't seem so bad, right? So, their character can move at great speeds. Doesn't mean they can't be beaten, right?


The problem is that if they are not specified to be only slightly faster, stronger or whatever, then there usually are no real boundaries. These powers usually amount to making players untouchable and almost (if not really) autohit.


Is it irrealistic for attacks to fail hitting these people? Well, no. The problem is exactly the opposite. It's irrealistic for any attacks to actually be successful, without forcing the situation. A character is, this way, unbeatable. You can't hurt something you can't hit.


2.Kinesis Powers


Let's go by steps here. A kinesis power is one based of being able to influence things with your mind. This means:


-you get to skip all forms of physical boundaries


-you get to do it precisely the way you want it


And the problems:


-It can't be stopped-


Most of these powers only require you to focus. This means that as long as you can say "oh, he tried really hard toi concentrate" BOOM you get to use your kineis nomatter what happens. While by itself this doesn't make a character over powered put it together with what comes nextt and you'll see why it is actually so harmful.


-the imagination's the limit-


kenisis powers tend to have a real wave of vagueness to them. Rarely will they specify what can or can't be done: That means if they can think of it, it probably can be done.


If you have telekinesis, this means you can litterally pull someone's heart out of place with your mind. Pirokinesis? You can set someone ablaze inside.


-Not enough limits-


Very related to the previous one, this problem pertains to the fact that you need a severe amount of limits for kinesis to be fair, something that only happens in, regularly, OP powers. And why does this happen? If you have telekenisis, and you can only lift stuff up to a feet away, then you can do it even if it's an elephant. You can pull someone aparat bit by bit. You can prevent anything that comes near you from hitting.


And nobody can stop you.


3.Time warps


You'd think this is pretty obvious, no? Time-controlling abilities are OP. Since the dawn of RP that people knew this.


Yet, the knowledge seems lost. More and more I see time-tracks wannabes like foresighting and other prediction abilties or even abilities that think going back in time for 2 seconds is not bad because it's two seconds. That's two seconds of omniscience!


Another one is time slowing. This is eqquivalent to stopping time, usually, only phrased differently.


Time control have the afore mentioned problems of superspeed, except in this one you don't even have to move.


4.Elemental Control/generation


In this one, it's a matter of measure. I'll leave it simple and say this:


If you can summon elements, like with kinesis, you can't be stopped.


If you can't but you can still control them to. a large extent, it's OP.


One of the main characters in Kazo No Stigma it's a character tha can use wind and is a perfect example of this: he can use wind to do ANYTHING from slicing stuff to flying to invisble shields that can't be pierced at all, hurricanes, track any person at all down, sense enemies, etc...


Controlling elements is a very versatile idea and if you're not careful with t's limitations, it's gonna backfire.


5.Darkness Control


Darkness is the absence of light. That being said, nowhere is it stated there is any kind if physical substance to shadows.


So one must be created.


This is not a problem. What is that this tends to not happen. People come up with some vague concept in their minds and usually not even that is explained.


In other words: they can do anything. They have the sharpest sword there is and can hit always because nothing can really stop them. They have the strongest shield ever. They have a way to essentially become invisible.


As a jack-of-all trades few can beat darknes control, especially how darkness manages to maxime the effects of each one. It makes me wonder if you have a ton of OP abilities in one is that OP of something worse? Cause if it is worse, then darkness control is it.


6.Mind or memory reading


First of all, it's metagaming in disguise. You can read anyone take their memories. This makes you able to predict movements, understand someone immediately, expect their every move, etc...


Next, apart from the metagaming, this ability is useless. No worse than that. It's harmful. If you can read memories then your character is supreme ruler of what is or not legitimate: after all, you know everyone'ds past, even the part the other RPerd haven't come up with yet. Not only that, but reading memories or minds means reading exactly what your fellow RPers (and GM) wanted to keep hidden. This ability exists solely to screw everyone's plans and offers nothing to return for it.


In other words uts destructitively OP and doesn't have an ounce of constructive material to it.


7.Memory or Perception Manipulation


I doubt I really have to say much about this one. It's mind control. Like...It only has SLIGHTLY different words.


In fact, mind control is better than this. At least mind control doesn't screw up the entire character in the process. Cause if your memories are different your personality also changes, innevitably, however minorly.


The fact this ability can screw up worse than one of the biggest "no"s in roleplay history should be a clear sign that it is a bad idea.


8.overly pereceptive


9.Chase attacks


These are the abilities that allow you to use tgem and they will chase your opponent. Or it can be a skill that says your character never misses the target.


This is bluntly autohit. You are forcing the other RPer yo receive the attack.


The reason this is OP is exactly that. If an attack can't be avoided how are you supposed to survive? They aim for the head,boom, you're dead.


10.Healing Powers with no backfire or that can be used on oneself


11.Vagueness


If each of the other was taking big slices of the cake, then this one takes the whole bakery. Found in the most variable manners (summons an X at random, mastery with poisons/potions/alchemy, casts spells, etc....) this consists on giving halfhearted information on what can be done.


Why is this OP? You have a counter fir everything. You can litterally just say "oh, I have a poison that counters immortality". This meabs that nomatter what the opponent does, you're always better. At the least, equal.


12.Teleports


[WIP]


13.Immortal


No, I'm not kidding. I've actually seen this approved many times. with no drawback.


It blows my mind to see something like this, a plain and simple stated immortality (and I meab in the litterally sense. "Immortal" was the actual word used). You'd think this only means age, right? Well, I'll admit often times people are right about that on this one, it's about age not wounds. But if I stated my character is immortal and it was accepted what was there stoping me from making character actually impregnable from any kind of death?


And even if we stick with age, there are tons of meta implications to consider: how long did they live? What did they see and know? Does that contradict the roleplay? Wouldn't it take the conflict away if the character is just old enough to know their weaknesses?


The implications of immortal characters are pretty heavy and definetly a form of OPness.


14.Power Mirrors


[Tobe explained]


Common Excuses and mistakes and why they are wrong:


-Being OP depends on the RPer's skill


-I can do what I want with MY character.


-OP only affects combat RPs


-Energy or Focus are good costs


-Powers have nothing to do with Personality and Backstory


-Personality Flaws are enough to balance OP powers


-It's ok to make an OP character if that was the point


-But how supposed I supposed to win if...


-I trust he'll be reasonable...


-OP means you can't be killed


-OP is ALWAYS bad.

 

[Archie]

Agreed on most. Here's a secret too and I'm actually guilty of this a lot.


Making someone in control of logistics, supply, or the books is OP as hell and nobody notices


People think the captain is the most powerful person on the ship, but in RPs, it seems like the Quartermaster is. This is a sin I do a lot, but if you make the guy who has to handle everyone's *boring* supplies, you get to basically interact with anyone on easy terms, and this is a bit more of psychology, but you basically get to tell them what to do. Imagine if a man came up to you and said "I've hustled for days, but FINALLY these super new guns are yours". You'd do what he said. Everyone thinks it's a boring role and doesn't think of it. I think there are times it's a good idea however. Quite honestly if i'm ever GMing an RP and want control over the plot without being too obvious... I play the bookkeeper.

 

[call me rae]

Well to be honest this seems kind of harsh, as someone who does predominetly Superhero roleplays what your saying takes out a good chunk of the more commonly used powers as well as kind of makes most fandoms either neutered or unplayable.


Obviously if your making someone whose abilities are at an entirely different league than everyone else that's not acceptable.


But saying no kinetic abilities, no darkness manipulation, no telepathic, empathic, or sensory perception abilities, as well as all the rest.


Well what are people supposed to play then? Powers that are essentially useless or obscure powers that no ones ever heard of?


I think the issue isn't that most ( not all but I'll get into that below ) of these powers are OP in and of themselves. Because for one thing a person isn't defined entirely by their powers. They are defined equally as well by their personalities, their environment, and more over their own limitations as well as the strengths of those around them.


I mean just because I say my character can control darkness doesn't mean he's over powered. One he has the clear reliance of their being darkness for his powers to work, he would be weak to light based powers, and not only that depending on how his powers are or are not controlled he could suffer from something like depression. If his powers are severe enough he could even be fatally sensitive to any source of light.


So saying that his powers make him OP without allowing for the rest of the character to speak for himself is silly. Plus to be frank most Comic Fandoms EVERYONE is OP it's written into their canon characters.


So rather than focusing on the special abilities you should focus on WHY the people have these powers. is it so that they can have their character be the most powerful person in the Roleplay or is it a genuine attempt to fit into the setting of the roleplays universe

 

[call me rae]

Now that being said I do agree that telepathy is pretty much a power that no one should use unless they have a lot of experience and they know what their doing. And can understand that there is a difference between reading someone's thoughts and being omnicicient. Just cuz you can read my characters thought does t mean you know their backstory after all. I mean how many people go about their daily life thinking - about their early childhood, personal quirks, and whatever personal trauma they happen to have suffered ?

 

[Deadkool]

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) this was made as a cautionary tale rather than a set of rules. Use these abilities if you feel the desire, but keep in mind how they can be abused and stay away from that. I'd like to add regeneration can be an incredibly OP ability if not defined properly.

 

[Deadkool]

 

[Archie]

If we're just talking pure RP theory flesh magic is the most OP power. Why? Because except in dice RP, combat goes like this in theory:


- One player attacks


- The other thinks "well if I get hit, then I can hit back, and if I get hit hard, then I can hit back hard"


- The player lets hits through and the same happens for the second player. The fight seems fair until the end


With a flesh mage, you can take as big hits as you want, because you can instantly heal yourself as long as you make it seem disgusting. The #1 thing that's OP in RPs isn't having some special attack power or telepathy or whatever, but the ability to get around the patterns that typically are in fights. Even if it's a dweeb with a twig vs. Superman, RPers are expected to take hits if the other player wants and trade off like that, so the powers don't matter in battle as much as they do after. I've seen people (quite cleverly, if a bit amorally) lose arms and everyone goes "what a great RPer that's the spirit", let them win, then they grow them back.

 

[Idea]

Well to be honest this seems kind of harsh, as someone who does predominetly Superhero roleplays what your saying takes out a good chunk of the more commonly used powers as well as kind of makes most fandoms either neutered or unplayable.
Obviously if your making someone whose abilities are at an entirely different league than everyone else that's not acceptable.


But saying no kinetic abilities, no darkness manipulation, no telepathic, empathic, or sensory perception abilities, as well as all the rest.


Well what are people supposed to play then? Powers that are essentially useless or obscure powers that no ones ever heard of?


I think the issue isn't that most ( not all but I'll get into that below ) of these powers are OP in and of themselves. Because for one thing a person isn't defined entirely by their powers. They are defined equally as well by their personalities, their environment, and more over their own limitations as well as the strengths of those around them.


I mean just because I say my character can control darkness doesn't mean he's over powered. One he has the clear reliance of their being darkness for his powers to work, he would be weak to light based powers, and not only that depending on how his powers are or are not controlled he could suffer from something like depression. If his powers are severe enough he could even be fatally sensitive to any source of light.


So saying that his powers make him OP without allowing for the rest of the character to speak for himself is silly. Plus to be frank most Comic Fandoms EVERYONE is OP it's written into their canon characters.


So rather than focusing on the special abilities you should focus on WHY the people have these powers. is it so that they can have their character be the most powerful person in the Roleplay or is it a genuine attempt to fit into the setting of the roleplays universe

Now that being said I do agree that telepathy is pretty much a power that no one should use unless they have a lot of experience and they know what their doing. And can understand that there is a difference between reading someone's thoughts and being omnicicient. Just cuz you can read my characters thought does t mean you know their backstory after all. I mean how many people go about their daily life thinking - about their early childhood, personal quirks, and whatever personal trauma they happen to have suffered ?

Firstly, I'd like to point out the fact that it says [WIP] on top. I don't mind thought criticism, such as the one you gave me, but almost everything you mentioned was something I was going to adress and hadn't had the time yet. You couldn't have guessed this, of course, but I find it more reasonable to wait for someone to finish their point before criticizing. No?


That being said, you make some valid points. In fact, I believe what you said speaks for a lot of people'a thoughts on the matter.


I am, indeed, being harsh. However, I didn't say never use powers. I said GMs should pay more attention before approving them and people should give a bit more thought on how to make them fair.


Say darkness control. The weakness you presented implies someone must have light-based abilities in order to counter them. With anything else, the person would remain unbeatable. Because even during the day, there is darkness. Wherever there is a source of light, there will be shadows.


However, you could take two angles that actually DO solve the problem. The first it to estabilish a control range, a limited amour of things you can or not do and have those not be overpowered. If all you can do is blend into the shadows or form rays of it or a blade nearby, I think it's perfectly acceptable. Another is to estabilish a proper definition of what this "darkness " is. As in "it's the shadows created by the light of a fire". That limits the ability immensily which in turn makes it something that's not overpowered.


Problems are like flowers and if you don't cut them by the root, they'll bloom anyway. The problem about being OP is not that they screw everything all the time, because that's not what happens. It's the fact that, when they do get used, they kill the conflict (assuming it's a foghtng conflict, not an emotional one).


You mentioned the character's personality but that is quite idealistic. You're not only trusting the rpers, in general, to be skilled and honest enough to follow the personality thoroughly regardless of the consequence and to have traits that really do stop the proper usage of the ability.


But the fact this most of the times, the roleplayer is honest, but that's about as far as it goes from the above description.


One huge example of this is what I call an arbitrary character. These are usually characterized by in-character contradictions that make ir impossible to predict how they'll actually react. The most common, almost universally used one is the "distant, cold outside, but inside really kind and caring..." sort of character. This is most the the times a mere excuse (whether the person is aware of it or not) go from b@tch to saint and back depending on what's more convinient. Not what's correct, what's more convinient.


Another thing to watch out for in this is fake character growth. A person will just flip their character into an 180 personality shift midbattle and justify it as "charcter growth". Only, nothing will have happened that could trigger such growth, especially in that span of time.


Or we could adress the fact many people never mention their actual powers/abilities in the CS if they have one at all, or the fact a lot of people actually drop their character's personality by the third post or so.


You adressed comics and fandoms, and those are special cases. For one, comics are not roleplaying. They are writing a story. In writing a story you can manipulate everything to how it fits best and create proper conflict for overpowered characters. The way superman has kryptonite as a weakness wouldn't work as an RP character, but within the comic, you can pretty much accept the villans are kind of obsessed with him.


The fandom part is a little trickier to speak about, but in short it has to do with character expectations. People in general KNOW these are overpowered and they went into the roleplay knowing such characters were likely to appear.


making an OP character after properly discussing that is acceptable. Be overpowered as you wish if everyone is fine with it. But this is rarely the case, as people often don't discuss it at all. Any OP characterer that someone makes without people agreeing to it is like soneone saying theirs is the main character of the story.


Finally, in regards to mind reading it is possible to use ot that way, but usually not the case. Mind reading often amounts to always being aware of someone's intentions and plans and pretty everyone who roleplays a character that can do that either makes them duck just in time, counters the strategy or informs everyone else so THEY can do it.

 

[call me rae]

Fair enough and this wasn't intended as an attack just to show you why people might be fine accepting the so called OP powers. For one thing in Fandom roleplay the powers are built into the character so you can't remove them. For just general gifted/powered roleplay it could be just a matter of the powers fitting into the plot ( again everyone in the roleplay is op as that's the point )


As someone who does do these roleplay near exclusively I tend to come at it from a totally different angle.


First I look at the overall effort and skill put into the CS. If it's something half-assed or filled with typos than that already tells me their will be an uphill battle. As it indicates either lack of experience or interest.


Next I make sure all the roleplay rules are followed. And usually I build in a power and weakness ratio. Ex. Character can only have one power and at least one weakness. Powers must fit the scenario so nothing too flashy or that effects a large scale (this for a roleplay dealing with street level crime )


And finally I ask for a description of the powers,yeah I know sounds obvious right? But I don't just mean "he can control fire" I mean what kind of fire, how does he control it; does he create the fire or manipulate existing flames, can he use it to burn down buildings or just make small fireballs in his hand?


I always offer tips for improving a power prior to giving someone the boot


But sadly their are people who are obviously out to hijack the roleplay (and powers are rarely the only indication of this )


And I have no problem kicking these people out. If you can't make a character that fits the setting and follows my rules then you can leqve. Simple.


I think the issue your trying to address has more to do with GMS not following through only their own rules or being too inclusive than it does with powers to be honest.

 

[Idea]

Fair enough and this wasn't intended as an attack just to show you why people might be fine accepting the so called OP powers. For one thing in Fandom roleplay the powers are built into the character so you can't remove them. For just general gifted/powered roleplay it could be just a matter of the powers fitting into the plot ( again everyone in the roleplay is op as that's the point )
As someone who does do these roleplay near exclusively I tend to come at it from a totally different angle.


First I look at the overall effort and skill put into the CS. If it's something half-assed or filled with typos than that already tells me their will be an uphill battle. As it indicates either lack of experience or interest.


Next I make sure all the roleplay rules are followed. And usually I build in a power and weakness ratio. Ex. Character can only have one power and at least one weakness. Powers must fit the scenario so nothing too flashy or that effects a large scale (this for a roleplay dealing with street level crime )


And finally I ask for a description of the powers,yeah I know sounds obvious right? But I don't just mean "he can control fire" I mean what kind of fire, how does he control it; does he create the fire or manipulate existing flames, can he use it to burn down buildings or just make small fireballs in his hand?


I always offer tips for improving a power prior to giving someone the boot


But sadly their are people who are obviously out to hijack the roleplay (and powers are rarely the only indication of this )


And I have no problem kicking these people out. If you can't make a character that fits the setting and follows my rules then you can leqve. Simple.


I think the issue your trying to address has more to do with GMS not following through only their own rules or being too inclusive than it does with powers to be honest.

Again, those fandoms and situations where you actually have discussed that you will be using an OP character are exceptional situations.


Of course, that method is perfectly acceptable, and if you choose to accept a power using the method you described, I doubt you`ll really have any trouble with those powers.


However (and as I mentioned before) I wasn`t aiming at saying these powers are unacceptable, but that GMs should be giving them some thought and be a little harsher in where the line is drawn between what is or not accepted and what changes should be made before accepting something.

 

[Deadkool]

I think the main problem is, when a roleplay only has an audience of 5-6 people, a GM can't be too picky about who (s)he let's in which can result in OP characters

 

[Idea]

I think the main problem is, when a roleplay only has an audience of 5-6 people, a GM can't be too picky about who (s)he let's in which can result in OP characters

Unfortunately, very true. I have scared players that were needed for the roleplay before, over my demands.

 

[Idea]

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) this was made as a cautionary tale rather than a set of rules. Use these abilities if you feel the desire, but keep in mind how they can be abused and stay away from that. I'd like to add regeneration can be an incredibly OP ability if not defined properly.

If we're just talking pure RP theory flesh magic is the most OP power. Why? Because except in dice RP, combat goes like this in theory:
- One player attacks


- The other thinks "well if I get hit, then I can hit back, and if I get hit hard, then I can hit back hard"


- The player lets hits through and the same happens for the second player. The fight seems fair until the end


With a flesh mage, you can take as big hits as you want, because you can instantly heal yourself as long as you make it seem disgusting. The #1 thing that's OP in RPs isn't having some special attack power or telepathy or whatever, but the ability to get around the patterns that typically are in fights. Even if it's a dweeb with a twig vs. Superman, RPers are expected to take hits if the other player wants and trade off like that, so the powers don't matter in battle as much as they do after. I've seen people (quite cleverly, if a bit amorally) lose arms and everyone goes "what a great RPer that's the spirit", let them win, then they grow them back.

These will be addressed in the self-healing one.

 

[augmentedspartan]

Firstly, I'd like to point out the fact that it says [WIP] on top. I don't mind thought criticism, such as the one you gave me, but almost everything you mentioned was something I was going to adress and hadn't had the time yet. You couldn't have guessed this, of course, but I find it more reasonable to wait for someone to finish their point before criticizing. No?

There's the Early Access fallacy. If it isn't finished or ready for critique/comments, then maybe you should wait until it's done before posting it.


Honestly I think it's unfair to solely blame the powers themselves because almost anything can be made OP if taken to the extreme. Electricity, for example, can be made fatal with one shock at any range without any drawbacks. Water control can also be taken to the extreme, since the human body is mostly water, you can have the obvious blood control type power, or go even more extreme and be able to separate the water from the body resulting in instant death. You can grab pretty much any power and make it OP if you take it to the extreme, but that doesn't mean the power itself is OP.


So yes, there are things GMs need to watch out when accepting characters, but it's less about the power itself and more about the player. If the player is the kind of person to play OP characters, then it doesn't matter what power their characters have they will probably end up abusing them. The other is true, a person can easily have their characters have one of the powers listed but still play fair. The problem, of course, is knowing if the person is reliable or not but that's another discussion entirely.


For example, let's take a look at mind reading. This one is really dependent of how sciency you want to get. You can make it so it reads the person's mind completely and knows anything from sensory memory, short term memory, and long term memory, thus know anything the person knows. Or, you can make it more realistic. The way I would make it is that a mind reader could only sense what a person is thinking at the moment, their sensory memory, and how they are feeling at the moment. So the power would work by deciphering the thoughts through emotions, images, sounds, mental words, plus the other information that they must clog through to get to the actual though. It would take practice for it to be useful and wouldn't be instantaneous in use. Now, that sounds much more manageable doesn't it?


In the superhero RP I'm currently in, and that has been going for a while, we've had quiet a few of the powers you have listed. From kinetic powers, darkness manipulation, perfect aim, high regenerative powers, element manipulation, teleportation, and even puppet mastery, we've had an assemblage of these OP powers without any real problem, and this is due to the fact that each player knows to not cross the line and because of communication between the GM and other players.

 

[Idea]

There's the Early Access fallacy. If it isn't finished or ready for critique/comments, then maybe you should wait until it's done before posting it.

I think it`s rather obvious that if I posted it before it was done, that was because there wasn`t much of a choice.

Honestly I think it's unfair to solely blame the powers themselves because almost anything can be made OP if taken to the extreme. Electricity, for example, can be made fatal with one shock at any range without any drawbacks. Water control can also be taken to the extreme, since the human body is mostly water, you can have the obvious blood control type power, or go even more extreme and be able to separate the water from the body resulting in instant death. You can grab pretty much any power and make it OP if you take it to the extreme, but that doesn't mean the power itself is OP.
So yes, there are things GMs need to watch out when accepting characters, but it's less about the power itself and more about the player. If the player is the kind of person to play OP characters, then it doesn't matter what power their characters have they will probably end up abusing them. The other is true, a person can easily have their characters have one of the powers listed but still play fair. The problem, of course, is knowing if the person is reliable or not but that's another discussion entirely.


For example, let's take a look at mind reading. This one is really dependent of how sciency you want to get. You can make it so it reads the person's mind completely and knows anything from sensory memory, short term memory, and long term memory, thus know anything the person knows. Or, you can make it more realistic. The way I would make it is that a mind reader could only sense what a person is thinking at the moment, their sensory memory, and how they are feeling at the moment. So the power would work by deciphering the thoughts through emotions, images, sounds, mental words, plus the other information that they must clog through to get to the actual though. It would take practice for it to be useful and wouldn't be instantaneous in use. Now, that sounds much more manageable doesn't it?

Again, this is something I was going to deal with when I could.


I will also state it again: An OP ability isn`t OP because of what actually happens in the rp, but because of what it has the potential to do.


And no, not all powers can be OP. Only this type of vague or oversimplistic powers which don`t estabilish a clear boundary between what can or can`t be done.


Mind reading, for example. You named a series of option to specialize the mind reading, but those are limiters. You estabilish clearly "mind reading means X" and so anything beyond that X can`t be done.


On the other hand, the powers I was addressing never make such a statement. They stick to saying "mind reading he can read a person`s thoughts", leaving it as unspecified as possible. Or for darkness control: "He can control shadows and manipulate them at will". Get what I mean?


To put it simply, the power I was referring to was OP. The one you mentioned can`t be just described as "mind reading". Why? For the same reason both cats and lions are felines, but cats and lions are not the same thing. Just because they fit into the same category, doesn`t mean they are the same.


One more thing: If you`re gonna tell me that less experienced players can`t rp with powers because they don`t know how to use them, please refrain from posting in this thread again. I personally find elitism to be an abhorrent attitude to take and would prefer to not to be wasting my time arguing about it here.

In the superhero RP I'm currently in, and that has been going for a while, we've had quiet a few of the powers you have listed. From kinetic powers, darkness manipulation, perfect aim, high regenerative powers, element manipulation, teleportation, and even puppet mastery, we've had an assemblage of these OP powers without any real problem, and this is due to the fact that each player knows to not cross the line and because of communication between the GM and other players.

I`d very much like the link. I don`t doubt your words, but I have a feeling there is a key difference there.


Even if there isn`t though, I am not claiming to be an absolute authority on the matter. The thread is about my personal opinion and expectations.

 

[Deadkool]

 

[Zilla]

I'm really with readingraebow on this one in that I think you're being overly harsh on the powers themselves, and not as much on their execution. What is sounds like to me you're really talking about is perfect characters and flawless abilities. Which is a very common mistake of players, both new and old.


For instance, let's look at telepaths. It's a rather Mary Sue power if you can just passively read everyone's minds' at all times with no barriers. That's also pretty boring. Look at the way it's done in the Sookie Stackhouse mysteries: The character has passive mind reading, however it's a detriment to her life. It's a strength that is made into a weakness, something the series uses as a plot point many times. Suddenly it's not a glamorous power, but an annoying hindrance. And if you have an issue with mind readers, wouldn't it also be OP to have a character whose mind is absolutely impenetrable?


It also seems like you have a hard time trusting other players to be reasonable in play. You've pretty much hacked available powers down to nothing, so are you saying that you only agree with strict human only play?

 

[augmentedspartan]

I will also state it again: An OP ability isn`t OP because of what actually happens in the rp, but because of what it has the potential to do.
And no, not all powers can be OP. Only this type of vague or oversimplistic powers which don`t estabilish a clear boundary between what can or can`t be done.

Almost all powers have the potential to be OP. Here, let me make something up. Tongue manipulation. Someone can move at their will other people's tongues. Seems pretty harmless right? Well, what if said person is being confronted by someone else? They could do something like rip the person's tongue out and make them choke in it. Not so harmless nor right? Now, since we are talking about vagueness, they could potentially do this to anyone and at the same time. They could kill hundreds of people this way without having to even move.


Or lets take a more serious example. Flying. Pretty simple right? Well, what if the person can fly at any speed with no limits? That would make it pretty OP wouldn't it? They would be able to instantly do anything as long as they are flying. Fight someone? Do it while flying. Dodge bullets? Do it while flying. Evade attacks? Flying. It's pretty easy to exaggerate a power until it can become OP.


But I like what you said about vagueness. It's not the power that's dangerous, but how vague people are when placing limits. I think that's a better way to explain it, rather than point at specific powers.

Mind reading, for example. You named a series of option to specialize the mind reading, but those are limiters. You estabilish clearly "mind reading means X" and so anything beyond that X can`t be done.
On the other hand, the powers I was addressing never make such a statement. They stick to saying "mind reading he can read a person`s thoughts", leaving it as unspecified as possible. Or for darkness control: "He can control shadows and manipulate them at will". Get what I mean?


To put it simply, the power I was referring to was OP. The one you mentioned can`t be just described as "mind reading". Why? For the same reason both cats and lions are felines, but cats and lions are not the same thing. Just because they fit into the same category, doesn`t mean they are the same.

Actually, what I mentioned can easily be described as mind reading. Why? Because it reads minds. The only difference between my example and yours is that I grounded mine more with limiters as you call it, while your example has no boundaries. Compare teleportation from Nightcrawler to the one from Jumper. Both are considered teleporation, with the only difference being the fact that Jumpers have no maximum range, while Nightcrawler can only teleport a set distance. Or what about speed? Teleporting once every hour vs teleporting up to ten times a second. Same power right? But you can see how unbalanced one is compared to the other.

One more thing: If you`re gonna tell me that less experienced players can`t rp with powers because they don`t know how to use them, please refrain from posting in this thread again. I personally find elitism to be an abhorrent attitude to take and would prefer to not to be wasting my time arguing about it here.

Except I didn't, so don't put words in my mouth.

I`d very much like the link. I don`t doubt your words, but I have a feeling there is a key difference there.

Yeah no problem. Right here. That one is finished and we're on the "sequel" right now which just started so I'll just give you the finished one since it has more examples.

Even if there isn`t though, I am not claiming to be an absolute authority on the matter. The thread is about my personal opinion and expectations.

Of course, what I wrote is also my opinion. But then again, that's the point of discussion threads isn't it? To compare and contrast different opinions. Even if you leave with the same opinion as you started, nothing lost.

 

[Idea]

I'm really with readingraebow on this one in that I think you're being overly harsh on the powers themselves, and not as much on their execution. What is sounds like to me you're really talking about is perfect characters and flawless abilities. Which is a very common mistake of players, both new and old.
For instance, let's look at telepaths. It's a rather Mary Sue power if you can just passively read everyone's minds' at all times with no barriers. That's also pretty boring. Look at the way it's done in the Sookie Stackhouse mysteries: The character has passive mind reading, however it's a detriment to her life. It's a strength that is made into a weakness, something the series uses as a plot point many times. Suddenly it's not a glamorous power, but an annoying hindrance. And if you have an issue with mind readers, wouldn't it also be OP to have a character whose mind is absolutely impenetrable?


It also seems like you have a hard time trusting other players to be reasonable in play. You've pretty much hacked available powers down to nothing, so are you saying that you only agree with strict human only play?

It`s quite the opposite, really.


I am talking about how these powers, on their own (AKA, the state they are usually found in by my experience), fall within the scope of OP. On the other hand, I am being told that it is possible to not make them OP, which is true, but as I told @readingraebow

You mentioned the character's personality but that is quite idealistic. You're not only trusting the rpers, in general, to be skilled and honest enough to follow the personality thoroughly regardless of the consequence and to have traits that really do stop the proper usage of the ability.
But the fact this most of the times, the roleplayer is honest, but that's about as far as it goes from the above description.


One huge example of this is what I call an arbitrary character. These are usually characterized by in-character contradictions that make ir impossible to predict how they'll actually react. The most common, almost universally used one is the "distant, cold outside, but inside really kind and caring..." sort of character. This is most the the times a mere excuse (whether the person is aware of it or not) go from b@tch to saint and back depending on what's more convinient. Not what's correct, what's more convinient.


Another thing to watch out for in this is fake character growth. A person will just flip their character into an 180 personality shift midbattle and justify it as "charcter growth". Only, nothing will have happened that could trigger such growth, especially in that span of time.


Or we could adress the fact many people never mention their actual powers/abilities in the CS if they have one at all, or the fact a lot of people actually drop their character's personality by the third post or so.

Indeed, I am being harsh, and indeed, I show a tendency to mistrust roleplayers. I don`t know about you, but my experience tells me that if an ability can be explored, it will.


Plus, consider this: If the personality of the character is what is the limit, that means NOTHING as to the power being OP or not. Because the power isn`t actually being used, it`d be the same regardless of whether the power is OP or not.

 

[Zilla]

Plus, consider this: If the personality of the character is what is the limit, that means NOTHING as to the power being OP or not. Because the power isn`t actually being used, it`d be the same regardless of whether the power is OP or not.

I would argue that all powers are OP then. There doesn't exist a power or ability that does not give a character an unrealistic advantage. You of course forgot to mention savants, masters of weapons, and such.

 

[Idea]

Almost all powers have the potential to be OP. Here, let me make something up. Tongue manipulation. Someone can move at their will other people's tongues. Seems pretty harmless right? Well, what if said person is being confronted by someone else? They could do something like rip the person's tongue out and make them choke in it. Not so harmless nor right? Now, since we are talking about vagueness, they could potentially do this to anyone and at the same time. They could kill hundreds of people this way without having to even move.
Or lets take a more serious example. Flying. Pretty simple right? Well, what if the person can fly at any speed with no limits? That would make it pretty OP wouldn't it? They would be able to instantly do anything as long as they are flying. Fight someone? Do it while flying. Dodge bullets? Do it while flying. Evade attacks? Flying. It's pretty easy to exaggerate a power until it can become OP.


But I like what you said about vagueness. It's not the power that's dangerous, but how vague people are when placing limits. I think that's a better way to explain it, rather than point at specific powers.

Pardon, let me rephrase my statement.


Some powers simply have the potential to be OP. It´s the case of these powers that are too vague. Remember tong manipulation that you mentioned? Well, the word "manipulation" is vague. What form of control? That could help set a boundary.


Other powers ARE OP. Such is the case that you had there with flight at any speed.


I talked about specific powers because these are so frequent that I want to punch the next the person I see whenever I see a CS that has it this way, AGAIN. Cause I know that not everyone is an expert and unless by some odd chance everyone who made those CSs IS, then someone is gonna be robbing the spotlight out of everyone else. Then someone is gonna be taking down every problem with an effort that is completely forced.

Actually, what I mentioned can easily be described as mind reading. Why? Because it reads minds. The only difference between my example and yours is that I grounded mine more with limiters as you call it, while your example has no boundaries. Compare teleportation from Nightcrawler to the one from Jumper. Both are considered teleporation, with the only difference being the fact that Jumpers have no maximum range, while Nightcrawler can only teleport a set distance. Or what about speed? Teleporting once every hour vs teleporting up to ten times a second. Same power right? But you can see how unbalanced one is compared to the other.

And the difference between man and monkey`s is less than 1%. We`re still quite different.


Given how boundaries can make an ability that is OP cease to be OP, that difference is very much key. They are both mind reading. But mine was raw mine reading, while yours was mind reading with a set of limiters.

Except I didn't, so don't put words in my mouth.

*coughs*

If

 

[Idea]

I would argue that all powers are OP then. There doesn't exist a power or ability that does not give a character an unrealistic advantage. You of course forgot to mention savants, masters of weapons, and such.

How on Earth you got to that conclusion from what I said is beyond me but...


The problem isn`t the character having an advantage. It`s the consequence of such advantage making them (nearly or completely) unbeatable or able to solve any kind of trouble.

 

[augmentedspartan]

Some powers simply have the potential to be OP. It´s the case of these powers that are too vague. Remember tong manipulation that you mentioned? Well, the word "manipulation" is vague. What form of control? That could help set a boundary.

Really, all powers are vague. Flying? Vague. Super speed? Vague. Super strength? Vague. Darkness manipulation? Vague. The only way a power isn't vague is by describing it in detail, but that wouldn't be the name of the power then, it would be the description. So, something OP vs something not OP would be:


Superower: Flying


Description: Can levitate at any altitude and travel at any speed for any amount of time while levitating.


Superpower: Flying


Description: Can levitate up to ten meters above the ground and travel at a maximum speed of 50km/h for up to three hours.


See the difference? Both are flying, yet they are very different in power levels. You can do this same thing with darkness manipulation, super speed, teleportation, etc... because it's not the power's name that makes it vague, but the description and how someone plays it.

And the difference between man and monkey`s is less than 1%. We`re still quite different.
Given how boundaries can make an ability that is OP cease to be OP, that difference is very much key. They are both mind reading. But mine was raw mine reading, while yours was mind reading with a set of limiters.

That's not a really good comparison. I would compare it more like a person to another person. You and I for example. We are different in so many ways, yet we are both humans. The same way that the power of flying at 10km/h vs flying at 10^10km/h are both flying, yet are quite different.

 

[Idea]

Really, all powers are vague. Flying? Vague. Super speed? Vague. Super strength? Vague. Darkness manipulation? Vague. The only way a power isn't vague is by describing it in detail, but that wouldn't be the name of the power then, it would be the description. So, something OP vs something not OP would be:
Superower: Flying


Description: Can levitate at any altitude and travel at any speed for any amount of time while levitating.


Superpower: Flying


Description: Can levitate up to ten meters above the ground and travel at a maximum speed of 50km/h for up to three hours.


See the difference? Both are flying, yet they are very different in power levels. You can do this same thing with darkness manipulation, super speed, teleportation, etc... because it's not the power's name that makes it vague, but the description and how someone plays it.

Never did I say the name had anything to do with it. Calling something "mind reading" or mhpgiPSOOdnLNSALK is irrelevant for it`s effects.

That's not a really good comparison. I would compare it more like a person to another person. You and I for example. We are different in so many ways, yet we are both humans. The same way that the power of flying at 10km/h vs flying at 10^10km/h are both flying, yet are quite different.

good example.

 

[Sunbather]

I don't play too many RPs with powers, I think, so most traditional OP scenarios don't really concern me. What I found is mental "OP"ness is very common. Those characters never crack and always stay on top of the situation. And if they were designed as weak or disturbed, they never truely suffer. They make it look like such, but there's never really any harm done whatsoever. Very unpleasant to play with to me.