What is this genre?

[Firebear]

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Hello there! I was just wondering something for future reference, if a group of modern-day humans somehow got transported to another planet filled with alien life and alien death would that be: Modern/Realistic because the player characters themselves are just normal people you'd find on the streets? Sci-Fi because the environment is an alien world far from our own? Fantasy because how would a bunch of people just be transported possibly millions of light years or more if not magic or the Grand Power of Handwaves?


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[Yuzuriha]

I believe it would be mainly Fantasy genre. It may or may not be sci-fi genre as well, depends how much everything what happened depends on technology, space travel, how advanced that alien planet is etc.


It is definitely not modern/realistic, because getting transported to an alien planet is already not realistic xD could be counted as Modern - if the rest of the story is set in similar environment as our modern world. But it would still be Fantasy as the main genre xD

 

[Mordecai]

So, on RPN, prefixes are based on setting. For example, if you have witches in 1977 London, it still is 'modern/realistic' because the setting was/is a real place. Therefore, I'd suggest your setting would probably be closest to sci-fi, though fantasy would probably also work depending on what you do with the alien planet.

 

[Idea]

I'd say it's a fantasy. The defining traits that separate the three categories you mentioned is the rules of Our reality and how they interact with your setting.


If you cannot explain how the transports occurred and broke the laws of physics using scientific theories, even if you use them imprecisely, then the setting has magic, which makes it a fantasy

 

[call me rae]

@Idea it's actually based on setting not story elements. As @Mordecai said it all depends on where the roleplay takes place. For instance if I had a story about a witch in new york that opens a potion shop than that would actually be in the modern genre not the fantasy genre. Despite the fact that there is magic the main setting is in a real place.


However if I were to have my witch character somehow made potions deliveries across the galaxy in her own space ship - that would be sci fi. Again even though magic is involved the main setting is sci-fi / futuristic.


Now for it to be considered fantasy I would put my witch character selling potions in some kind of made up world with possibly psuedo-medieval or steampunk themes. Extra points for other supernatural elements but they aren't actually required.


For the OP question I'd say most likely they would be in Sci-Fi since the main enviornment is the alien world. Although it's certainly possible they could make it fantasy depending on how the defined their alien enviornment.

 

[Idea]

@Idea it's actually based on setting not story elements. As @Mordecai said it all depends on where the roleplay takes place. For instance if I had a story about a witch in new york that opens a potion shop than that would actually be in the modern genre not the fantasy genre. Despite the fact that there is magic the main setting is in a real place.
However if I were to have my witch character somehow made potions deliveries across the galaxy in her own space ship - that would be sci fi. Again even though magic is involved the main setting is sci-fi / futuristic.


Now for it to be considered fantasy I would put my witch character selling potions in some kind of made up world with possibly psuedo-medieval or steampunk themes. Extra points for other supernatural elements but they aren't actually required.


For the OP question I'd say most likely they would be in Sci-Fi since the main enviornment is the alien world. Although it's certainly possible they could make it fantasy depending on how the defined their alien enviornment.

I quite understood that the setting is what counts, but if there is magic anywhere at any point in your story, then there is magic in the setting. If there isn't your setting is inconsistent which constitutes bad writing. Assuming bad writing is not what is supposed to be aimed at, then it's safe to also assume that, given the story involves magic (as per how I defined it at least), then so does the setting. If there is magic, it's a fantasy. That was my reasoning.

 

[call me rae]

@Idea not necessarily. I mean magic doesn't necessarily change the core setting is all I'm trying to say. As in my examples. Even if I play a witch who has magic and brews potions.


If the story takes place in new york city than it's still modern not fantasy. If it takes place in space or an alien planet than it's likely sci-fi ( although again that depends on exactly how the alien planet is described )


The story is considered fantasy only if it takes place primarily in a made up world of some sort. Magic is actually optional.


Heck I could probably make a fantasy world that was just some kind of psuedo medieval world with idk - dragons as the main source of transporation.


Not a bit of magic in it ( unless I guess you count dragons as intrinsically magically I guess ) and because it is a made up world it would be considered a fantasy genre roleplay.


So when you think of settings think of it in terms of a specific place not in the over-all themes.


If the place your roleplay is set in is real world or real world equivalent - than your in modern.


If the place your roleplay takes place in is futuristic or has sci-fi elements ( aliens, space travel, what have you ) than your in futuristic/sci fi


If the place your roleplay takes place in is totally made up - regardless of whether there is magic - than it's probably fantasy.

 

[Idea]

@Idea not necessarily. I mean magic doesn't necessarily change the core setting is all I'm trying to say. As in my examples. Even if I play a witch who has magic and brews potions.
If the story takes place in new york city than it's still modern not fantasy. If it takes place in space or an alien planet than it's likely sci-fi ( although again that depends on exactly how the alien planet is described )


The story is considered fantasy only if it takes place primarily in a made up world of some sort. Magic is actually optional.


Heck I could probably make a fantasy world that was just some kind of psuedo medieval world with idk - dragons as the main source of transporation.


Not a bit of magic in it ( unless I guess you count dragons as intrinsically magically I guess ) and because it is a made up world it would be considered a fantasy genre roleplay.


So when you think of settings think of it in terms of a specific place not in the over-all themes.


If the place your roleplay is set in is real world or real world equivalent - than your in modern.


If the place your roleplay takes place in is futuristic or has sci-fi elements ( aliens, space travel, what have you ) than your in futuristic/sci fi


If the place your roleplay takes place in is totally made up - regardless of whether there is magic - than it's probably fantasy.

There is an interesting topic to persue, but I think I'll propose we agree on disagreeing here, since I need my brain and energy for my exams at the moment. Pleasure arguing with you, as always.

 

[augmentedspartan]

I quite understood that the setting is what counts, but if there is magic anywhere at any point in your story, then there is magic in the setting. If there isn't your setting is inconsistent which constitutes bad writing.

Not fully explaining an element of a story isn't either inconsistency nor bad writing (as long as it's done properly). Horror and mystery both rely on many aspects of the story not being revealed. Plus, something that isn't explained isn't magic by default. There's plenty of unexplained phenomenon in real life, yet we don't simply call it magic and call it a day.

If you cannot explain how the transports occurred and broke the laws of physics using scientific theories, even if you use them imprecisely, then the setting has magic, which makes it a fantasy

Just because something isn't explained, it doesn't meat it's necessarily magic. There's plenty of stories that don't give many details about events or objects but aren't shown as magic. For example, the movie Predestination doesn't explain how the time travel machine works, yet it's never said that it's magic. The short story "The Frolic" has a crazy criminal saying that he can escape whenever he wants, and then does so. It is never explained if he does it with magic, experience, or if the hints he keeps dropping about "them" refer to some sort of alien or supernatural entity. Simply calling it magic would ruin the mystery of the story. Hell, a lot of Lovecraft ranges from magic, advanced technology, or simply abilities that advanced species possess. Plus, fantasy doesn't necessarily require magic, and magic doesn't make a story fantasy on its own. Genres and settings are more flexible than that.


As for the question OP asked, I'm gonna agree with the others and say that it fits more into sci-fi. It doesn't matter if the characters are from a modern time period, since the rest of the story fits sci-fi better. District 9, for example, is set in the present world but is still considered sci-fi.

 

[Idea]

Not fully explaining an element of a story isn't either inconsistency nor bad writing (as long as it's done properly). Horror and mystery both rely on many aspects of the story not being revealed. Plus, something that isn't explained isn't magic by default. There's plenty of unexplained phenomenon in real life, yet we don't simply call it magic and call it a day.
Just because something isn't explained, it doesn't meat it's necessarily magic. There's plenty of stories that don't give many details about events or objects but aren't shown as magic. For example, the movie Predestination doesn't explain how the time travel machine works, yet it's never said that it's magic. The short story "The Frolic" has a crazy criminal saying that he can escape whenever he wants, and then does so. It is never explained if he does it with magic, experience, or if the hints he keeps dropping about "them" refer to some sort of alien or supernatural entity. Simply calling it magic would ruin the mystery of the story. Hell, a lot of Lovecraft ranges from magic, advanced technology, or simply abilities that advanced species possess. Plus, fantasy doesn't necessarily require magic, and magic doesn't make a story fantasy on its own. Genres and settings are more flexible than that.


As for the question OP asked, I'm gonna agree with the others and say that it fits more into sci-fi. It doesn't matter if the characters are from a modern time period, since the rest of the story fits sci-fi better. District 9, for example, is set in the present world but is still considered sci-fi.

So, first I want to clarify something: One thing is being explained another is having an explanation.


Magic , as per the definition I gave, is anything that breaks the rules of reality. Now, for starters, note that I emphasized the fact that this is breaking the rules of reality not merely bending them, where the difference is that one has to ignore it's fundamentals whereas the other is merely inaccurate. That, I said, is the difference between having or not magic, which constitutes the difference between fantasy and scifi.


Now what I said is bad writing isn't lacking an explanation to magic, it's the presence of magic in a setting which doesn't have it: Magic comes from the setting. This is so intuitive I feel quite awkward explaining it, but think of it like this: why can't you produce fire in a complete vacuum? Because there is no oxygen to burn. Likewise, you can't use magic in a setting that doesn't have magic. Even if your character is the only one that can use magic, as long as anyone or anything has any form of magic, there is magic in something taht, one way or the other, is part of the setting.


And now here's another important thing: you keep saying "this is magic" and "this isn't magic" but you don't actually what magic IS. Because once you have a definition then you can start saying what something can or not be. What soemthing seems like spmething does not necessarily have to be that something.


Many of what we know as scifi themes may very well have been scifi in some works, but the traditional ideas of scifi not only change over time heavily, as I will show in a moment, but also don't necessarily make something scifi, as per the existence of the "futuristic fantasy" genre.


Now, one big example of something that doesn't look like scifi but actually is would be "Frankenstein". This popular horror novel had the basic principles for the creation of frakenstein's monster based on that time's current scientific developments. The observation of dead frogs's limbs responding to electrical stimuli was exaggerated into fully giving life to an inanimate corpse.


Is this possible? No. But the reason why it isn't magic is because you can justify it within the boundaries of common science and those things that normally you would not think possible or think extremely difficult to accomplish, are accomplished based on a scientific idea that happens to not be accurately depicted.


On the other hand, let's take soemthing like superman. By what you said earlier, if it has aliens, it's scifi. But let's look at the fact: he unexplainably can defy the laws of gravity, can fire laser beams with his eyes , has a strength that could never match his mass or density, and loses all of that in contact with a random rock. And these are just the classic superpowers, I'm not even going into addressing all the stuff the comics pull.


As previously mentioned, if a character has a certain set of things they can do, the setting must FIRST allow them to. So, what does this setting allow superman to do? Break the most basic things we know about science with no scientifically viable excuses (cause certainly explanations they wouldn't be), and all we're told is that he happens to be an alien.


That's magic. There IS no other viable explanation. Sure, it may not be this or that type of magic, but in the end, it's magic. And if it magic, it's a fantasy, because the setting allow magic to exist.

 

[Mordecai]

What I think everyone is trying to say is that no one would be offended if you put it in Fantasy or Sci-fi.

 

[augmentedspartan]

So, first I want to clarify something: One thing is being explained another is having an explanation. Magic , as per the definition I gave, is anything that breaks the rules of reality. Now, for starters, note that I emphasized the fact that this is breaking the rules of reality not merely bending them, where the difference is that one has to ignore it's fundamentals whereas the other is merely inaccurate. That, I said, is the difference between having or not magic, which constitutes the difference between fantasy and scifi.

And how would one distinguish breaking the rules from bending them? Time travel breaks almost every rule of physics, yet most media in which time travel is a principal element is considered sci-fi. Back to the Future, Predestination, Deja Vu, etc... are considered science fiction yet they have time travel, something that isn't remotely possible in real life. Yet I wouldn't consider any of that magic, at least not the way it's presented.

And now here's another important thing: you keep saying "this is magic" and "this isn't magic" but you don't actually what magic IS. Because once you have a definition then you can start saying what something can or not be. What soemthing seems like spmething does not necessarily have to be that something.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Could you rephrase it?

And if it magic, it's a fantasy, because the setting allow magic to exist.

Why does magic automatically make the setting fantasy? I know magic is very much the standard in fantasy, but that doesn't mean you can't have one without the other.

 

[Idea]

And how would one distinguish breaking the rules from bending them? Time travel breaks almost every rule of physics, yet most media in which time travel is a principal element is considered sci-fi. Back to the Future, Predestination, Deja Vu, etc... are considered science fiction yet they have time travel, something that isn't remotely possible in real life. Yet I wouldn't consider any of that magic, at least not the way it's presented.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Could you rephrase it?


Why does magic automatically make the setting fantasy? I know magic is very much the standard in fantasy, but that doesn't mean you can't have one without the other.

Breaking and bending the rules is set at your starting point. If the starting point is the effect , then you're breaking the rules, if it is the cause then you're bending them.


Allow me to clarify. The differ eve between magic and not magic, or breaking the rules and just bending them, is that when you bend a rule you are wrong I technical aspects. The difference between science fiction and our reality is that science fiction takes imprecisions in the rules of reality as we know them (for example, if you created this super advanced computer, like in I-robot you'd probably not be considering the full complications or making an accurate description of how such machinery would function. Can a robot "feel"? A science fiction story might base itself of the current AI development and create a robot that does.). The means, the figures or even just certain other laws or theories that would make their idea technically impossible but are neither impossible not completely out of left field. Magic is the exact opposite: it either comes out of left field, with only the effect and absolutely no basis in science or it disregards even basic scientific knowledge with no proper justification.


I am not sure if that was clear enough, so do tell me if you still don't understand.


My point regarding the definition of magic is that you to make a clear definition of something before you can say or not what it is. Otherwise , any point you make about it is invalid. Do note that it doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong, but it does mean that even if you are right it's by coincidence and rather useless for future cases, as it is too unreliable, as things as we perceive them is not always the way they are.


Coral reefs, for example, are animals. But if you look at a coral reef without prior knowledge of that, that is hard to believe if you do at all. It is only once you have the definition of an animal that you can accurately say what is or not an animal. If someone without even having a definition comes and says they aren't, sure there is a chance they may be right, but that statement is about as valid and credible as when my little brother said dinosaurs were purple inside: it's not impossible but has no basis for me to credit it for.


Now, there's an interesting aspect: can a fantasy setting be a fantasy setting without magic?


In that case, we have to go back to the definition aspect: what is "fantasy"?


To define is not to say what characteristics make a certain thing , but what characteristics are sufficient and required to say it is that thing. In other words, what characteristics are required to say it is that and none other .


This is not to say the genre would be JUST fantasy, but rather what elements are present in fantasy and can be in no other genre (if fantasy isn't in the mix).


One conclusion: magic. Magic can't be present in any other genre, except fantasy.


Thus, fantasy is DEFINED by magic. Henceforth, if a setting contains magic, that makes it a fantasy. Without magic, it is not a fantasy.


(Note: I can't quote your post in parts at the moment. If the sequence in this is confusing , just tell me and we'll put this on hold until tomorrow after my final exam, so I can go get my laptop back and properly quote things..)

 

[call me rae]

@Idea I think your misunderstanding what we're trying to say. At least in my case specifically I'm not asking you to redefine your definition of fantasy. I don't care how you define it.


I was just telling you that the way this site defines fantasy is different than your personal definition.


On this site in order for a roleplay to be labelled fantasy it has to take place in a made up setting that does not feature :

• the real world or a real world equivalent ( i.e. harry potter is modern the same as a roleplay about a trip across the US )
  
• sci-fi or futuristic elements (i.e. featuring space travel, advance technology, the future, aliens, etc. )
  
• related to OR taking place in a fandom ( ie. if it takes place in the Naruto universe or uses Naruto characters it's fandom )
  

So for instance if I made a roleplay about a world with sentient dinosaurs that were police officers - that would be fantasy.


It doesn't matter if there is or is not magic ( however you define magic for that matter ) it matters that it is a made up setting that does not fit into the other genres.


So that's why we're saying that the OP roleplay would most likely fit into Sci-Fi. Whether you think there is magic present or not doesn't matter. That's not what defines fantasy on this site. What defines it is setting. And according to the definitions of setting for this site - an alien planet is most likely going to fall under sci-fi.


Although certainly depending on the definition of the alien planet it could also fall under fantasy as well.


But again it doesn't matter how they got to the alien planet. Even if the reason is just - because the plot says they do. That doesn't automatically make the roleplay fantasy.


What makes it fantasy is the definition and use of the main setting - ie. the alien planet.

 

[Idea]

@Idea I think your misunderstanding what we're trying to say. At least in my case specifically I'm not asking you to redefine your definition of fantasy. I don't care how you define it.
I was just telling you that the way this site defines fantasy is different than your personal definition.


On this site in order for a roleplay to be labelled fantasy it has to take place in a made up setting that does not feature :

• the real world or a real world equivalent ( i.e. harry potter is modern the same as a roleplay about a trip across the US )
  
• sci-fi or futuristic elements (i.e. featuring space travel, advance technology, the future, aliens, etc. )
  
• related to OR taking place in a fandom ( ie. if it takes place in the Naruto universe or uses Naruto characters it's fandom )
  

So for instance if I made a roleplay about a world with sentient dinosaurs that were police officers - that would be fantasy.


It doesn't matter if there is or is not magic ( however you define magic for that matter ) it matters that it is a made up setting that does not fit into the other genres.


So that's why we're saying that the OP roleplay would most likely fit into Sci-Fi. Whether you think there is magic present or not doesn't matter. That's not what defines fantasy on this site. What defines it is setting. And according to the definitions of setting for this site - an alien planet is most likely going to fall under sci-fi.


Although certainly depending on the definition of the alien planet it could also fall under fantasy as well.


But again it doesn't matter how they got to the alien planet. Even if the reason is just - because the plot says they do. That doesn't automatically make the roleplay fantasy.


What makes it fantasy is the definition and use of the main setting - ie. the alien planet.

Of that is so, then so be it. The thread asked which way to mark her thread- I have no intention of lying, so of course I would advise putting it the way I classify them.


That said, it is a bit hard for me to believe those were @augmentedspartan 's intentions, given the way he put things. But in any case, I wasn't taking what he said personally nor was I trying to impose my view upon others merely stating my views and defending them and giving my opinion on the subject at hand.

 

[Firebear]

Good points all! I have decided that when the roleplay gets finished enough to put up here it'll go into Sci-Fi.


Also...

The thread asked which way to mark her thread

I'm a guy (x_x)

 

[Idea]

Good points all! I have decided that when the roleplay gets finished enough to put up here it'll go into Sci-Fi.
Also...


I'm a guy (x_x)

Sorry your previous pic mislead me (I think)

 

[Idea]

Good points all! I have decided that when the roleplay gets finished enough to put up here it'll go into Sci-Fi.
Also...


I'm a guy (x_x)

Sorry your previous pic mislead me (I think)

 

[Idea]

Good points all! I have decided that when the roleplay gets finished enough to put up here it'll go into Sci-Fi.
Also...


I'm a guy (x_x)

Sorry your previous pic mislead me (I think)