Elowyn
word weaver
Heh. Characters are like people in that you can never quite know everything about them.
Advice/Help Tips on Creating the Best Character Possible for a story/rpg
- Thread starter Elowyn
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Peacemaker .45
Gigachad.jpg >“why yes I don’t proofread my posts”
That’s true. If you know everything about a character, and furthermore, not have character arcs, then they’re pretty boring, honestly. I try to make mine all mysterious and stuff. It’s how I roll
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
And yet, we care about them because of what we do know. If it's not depicted or at least hinted at, then it might as well not be there. You can't have a character arc for an aspect of the character that didn't exist prior to the start of the arc.That’s true. If you know everything about a character, and furthermore, not have character arcs, then they’re pretty boring, honestly. I try to make mine all mysterious and stuff. It’s how I roll
Peacemaker .45
Gigachad.jpg >“why yes I don’t proofread my posts”
Yes, of course. You don’t keep it hidden without hinting at it. When you have mysterious histories for characters, you have to hint at it. Because, as you said, it might as well not be there at all. My characters, in terms of their mysterious histories, had to be hinted at over the course of the RP. I don’t hint at everything all at once. But as time goes on, more is hinted at or revealed. The goal when making a mysterious backstory for a character is for, when hinted at, people want to know more. While my wording may not be the best right now, I completely agree with what you said. A mysterious history can’t just be that. It has to be hinted at, it has to make readers, and the characters, want to know more. It can explain why a person is the way they are. This, of course, is hinted at or revealed over the course of the story.
Saccharine Cyanide
One part sweet, two parts poison
Let's see if I can remember all the tips I gleaned from college writing classes. : P
1. Study real people
Keep a notebook handy and be acreeper people-watcher. Write down anything you find interesting. Pay special attention to the way people talk - it's a good way to start writing realistic dialogue.
2. Study fake people
Think about your favorite characters and write down all the reasons you like them. What personality traits speak to you? What tropes can you find, especially ones shared between all or most of your favorite characters? Try to figure out why they work. It helps to read a lot, so you have lots of favorites to pull from.
3. Study yourself
What makes you interesting? What sort of dreams or goals do you have? What sort of microexpressions do you make? What quirks do you have? What strengths? Weaknesses? Don't be afraid to put a little of yourself in your characters (as long as you're not just drawing from the things you like about yourself!)
4. Strike a balance between merits and faults
This can be a really tough one. If your character has no faults, they'll be boring. But if they have too many, they'll be pitiable and not relatable. Make sure the strengths and weaknesses you emphasize directly aid them and hinder their progress through the plot, too.
5. Don't expend all your energy on your MC/PC
The setting, the things happening in the background, and the character's relationships with other characters can be just as important. Think of it like a play with a lead and a supporting cast: If the spotlight was always on the lead, it would be a pretty boring play.
1. Study real people
Keep a notebook handy and be a
2. Study fake people
Think about your favorite characters and write down all the reasons you like them. What personality traits speak to you? What tropes can you find, especially ones shared between all or most of your favorite characters? Try to figure out why they work. It helps to read a lot, so you have lots of favorites to pull from.
3. Study yourself
What makes you interesting? What sort of dreams or goals do you have? What sort of microexpressions do you make? What quirks do you have? What strengths? Weaknesses? Don't be afraid to put a little of yourself in your characters (as long as you're not just drawing from the things you like about yourself!)
4. Strike a balance between merits and faults
This can be a really tough one. If your character has no faults, they'll be boring. But if they have too many, they'll be pitiable and not relatable. Make sure the strengths and weaknesses you emphasize directly aid them and hinder their progress through the plot, too.
5. Don't expend all your energy on your MC/PC
The setting, the things happening in the background, and the character's relationships with other characters can be just as important. Think of it like a play with a lead and a supporting cast: If the spotlight was always on the lead, it would be a pretty boring play.
Elowyn
word weaver
Yeah, cuz that's not creepy at all.
Hm. Now this i can do.
This makes a lot of sense!
Coreonysis
Sketching World Lines
Generally, when I create a character, I create one that is good for a multitude of plots. I have an extensive network of forty-three OC's, and therefore I don't spend much time making many more. I simply extend upon their backstories.
I think the thing many people don't understand is that characters never stop growing, just like people don't. You always add more to their stories, making them richer, adding new details.
The best way to build a character is to roleplay with it.
I think the thing many people don't understand is that characters never stop growing, just like people don't. You always add more to their stories, making them richer, adding new details.
The best way to build a character is to roleplay with it.
Elowyn
word weaver
Wow! 43 characters... that's impressive.
Interesting... I see.
I'm more of the conviction one character per universe.
Elowyn
word weaver
But I guess it may make sense if they're all located in a series or similar universe/genre.
Then I can see how you could reuse a character. Hm. I may have to rethink my character conceptualization.
Then I can see how you could reuse a character. Hm. I may have to rethink my character conceptualization.
Coreonysis
Sketching World Lines
Most of my characters do exist within their own universe, and when I roleplay where I need more than one, I give them a tool that lets them splice the two universes together. Its way more complex than it needs to be, but I love having all of them exist separately and yet together when they need to be.
Elowyn
word weaver
okay i got like half of what you said there.
a "tool"?
"splice two universes together"?
yeah, i think i'll just keep things simple. kudos for you!
although i hate it when characters are just sunk into that nothingness of a roleplay that never gets finished. it's sad.
Coreonysis
Sketching World Lines
I agree! I'd hate to waste a completely good character by only allowing it use in one roleplay, just to have that roleplay fall apart within three or four responses.
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
I think this picture best describes what I think about this matter of hidden work. When I say hinting I don't mean just say there could be something here, but rather, there is something and I'm just not showing. In my opinion it's important that whatever you consider important exists. This is the first rule of good foreshadowing, you can't foreshadow what not even you know will happen. So it's perfectly fine not fully understanding your own character, but I guess I'm saying make sure you're trying to work with the part you don't know yet, but instead work the part which you do know into an art piece so to speak.
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
This is some great advise. Though be careful on all of these points: We are human and we have flawed perceptions. We often think we understand somehting or someone and turns out we don't get anything. We often mistake complexity for contradiction. We often take surface elements and imagine the deep ones from those. It's important to the humility to as a writer not ignore we have a flawed ability to understand others
Elowyn
word weaver
Mmm, yes. I think that is great. However, I actually don't know stuff about my character until it's written in the IC page. Think I should change that and actually put more background stuff before I write IC? (been thinking about it, even set up a OneNote to organize all my info)~
I think this picture best describes what I think about this matter of hidden work. When I say hinting I don't mean just say there could be something here, but rather, there is something and I'm just not showing. In my opinion it's important that whatever you consider important exists. This is the first rule of good foreshadowing, you can't foreshadow what not even you know will happen. So it's perfectly fine not fully understanding your own character, but I guess I'm saying make sure you're trying to work with the part you don't know yet, but instead work the part which you do know into an art piece so to speak.
The only one I planned explicitly all the way through is quest-style where I kind of have to have a general direction and know what's going to happen.
Coreonysis
Sketching World Lines
I write a 10-20 page story before using a character, to iron out a few details and get a few things set up.
That's probably a bit extra, but it works for me.
I can't really work out too much of a character without using it.
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
Hmmm... Think of it like this. Do you know what a Deus Ex Machina is? I'm gonna assume that you, like most, do have at least an idea of what it is. And that's because it's well-known as a terrible event in a story, but it's also extremely common. A Deus Ex Machina happens when a writer ends up writing themselves into a corner and have to bring in an element that wasn't previously a part of the story to solve the problem.
The problem with the character not existing it's that it's very easy for any writer to slip into overly convenient construction. Formatting a character that is not the character but rather is just the mold you want the character to fit into. Of course, no one usually AIMS to do this. But if the character doesn't have an anchor, the writer may not even question why the character is in a certain way. It's extremely easy to make the writing around the character asinine if you don't have a base for it.
Another aspect is what I've already mentioned: if the character doesn't exist you can't develop it. What do I care if the character has begun forgiving if I didn't know that was a thing they had trouble doing before? If there is a big plot point and the character suddenly shows mercy cause they relate to the villain's attitude, but we never knew the hero was someone who'd pull stunts like that, I'm as a reader I'm just gonna be convinced the hero is retarded, not that he is acting in character. I'm going to be annoyed, not understanding and hooked.
Worst case scenario this could even turn into a gigantic plot hole if somewhere down the road your forget a key detail of a character because you were making it up as you went.
There is plenty more I could say on this subject but I' currently on a moving car with two idiots next to me, so I'm gonna cut if off here, but hopefully my reasoning is a bit easier to understand now.
Coreonysis
Sketching World Lines
I like this response. Refer to this response. Lmao.
Ima follow just because of this response.
Elowyn
word weaver
I catch your drift.
edit: But I'm actually wondering if you could talk more about character development. As much as I can tell, it's just that they build character by making choices, right?
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DatBoi
Hot diggidy dawg
Create a goal pyramid.
You know, at the very top is their ultimate goal, the end of their journey as a character even if they don't know it yet. But to achieve it, they have to complete the rung below it. And to do that, the rung below it etc etc etc.
Remember that a character won't always have only one end goal, though. This is generally only for the beginning stages of creating the character. It's helped me a whole lot in making sure a character isn't boring and/or useless. I hope it helps you too!
You know, at the very top is their ultimate goal, the end of their journey as a character even if they don't know it yet. But to achieve it, they have to complete the rung below it. And to do that, the rung below it etc etc etc.
Remember that a character won't always have only one end goal, though. This is generally only for the beginning stages of creating the character. It's helped me a whole lot in making sure a character isn't boring and/or useless. I hope it helps you too!
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
The choices one makes define how others perceive oneself, not who that oneself is. Quite the opposite in fact, you are who you are, and that defines what choices you would make in any particular situation. To put it in very light terms. There's a whole philosophy discussion to the matter, and I'm not gonna chase that rabbit hole right now, but that's the simplest way I can put it.
To translate this into character terms when you make choices with a character you show character. However, development is internal to the character. It does not result from the action instead actions are the result of that development and innitial character. The reason why actions can be used to satisfy the "show don't tell" rule in regards to character is precisely because they convey who the character is, not how the character will become necessarily.
As far as I'm concerned at least character development is the change to a character's worldview or behavior and personality, with the possible addition of their skill (but that doesn't quite work in isolation), as a result of the events of the story, and the interaction with other characters. In other words to have character development you need two things: You need a worldview or personality to change and you need the events that naturally might trigger such a change.
Since we're in the season, let me use Scroodge from "A christmas carol" as an example. Spoilers ahead for anyone who's been in a coma under a rock for the past century. So, as we all know, the christmas Carol is this very famous story about a rich selfish man only concerned wih his own wealth who is visited by four spirits (one a ghost and then the three christmas spirits) who show him the rror of his ways leading him to become a kind and generous man overnight. Look at the structure here: First we establish the man's greed by his attempts to cheat charity and mistreatement of his employees (which also doubles as foreshadowign for a number of things, but that's for another time), then the author opens up the close minded heart of the character with the first ghost, that of a dear friend of his who also went down the same path. Following this, each of the christmas spirits shows Scrooge a figment of the consequences of his attitude, of the tragedy he creates around himself, which progressively leads him to question if he's acting as he should, until the last straw with christmas future showing dead and alone and scorned, which finally results in Scrooge begging for forgiveness and truly aknowledging the error of his ways.
Now try picturing that exact event, but instead of Scrooge it's any random old man who we don't know anything about. Harassing an old guy in the night who for all we know didn't even do anything wrong will not seem gradiose like in the Carol, but will just come off as harassment. Retconing reasoning would be forced as well. One of the prime elements of the story and the character development in it is that it's established from the start how awful a person Scrooge is.
Now instead of that, picture skipping all the spirits except the spirit of Christmas future. Does Scrooge at the beggining of the story seem like the kind of person who'd snap at dying alone? Sure he might be a little disturbed, but for it to be lifechanging would again, just be too forced. And don't get me started on him not even being visited, just one day waking up and being like "Ok, now I like Christmas". It's important for the effectiveness of the character development that each layer is peeled with individual care so as to make it organic.
Your question was a bit vague to me, but hopefully I was able to answer it in a satisfatory manner.
PS: Merry Christmas everyone!
Elowyn
word weaver
Hm, yes, I see. Very good! I'll be using this!
Killigrew
Magnificent Humanicorn
For the longest time, I was trying to figure out how to write well -- not only that, but to improve and reach for greatness, chasing after the shadows of those great authors long past.
You're always going to see mistakes in your writing. Take that as incentive to improve. Write when you're interested in what you're writing, and don't write when you lose interest. Have goals in mind, but don't force yourself to adhere to that goal; examine yourself and learn what you're capable of.
And when you've taken all this mind-boggling text-heavy advice to heart, let it sink in and become a part of what you do. That way you won't be so confused by the thousands of different ways to approach a character.
My advice is simple. Be genuine. Don't write something you're uncomfortable with, don't stretch your skin too far. Write the character when you believe he can actually be as you imagine. So, sure, do your research and test out your skills, but when it comes to characters... let them come to you.
That being said, I've held to two main pieces of advice when I write. I did a lot of research in the past, and found these the most helpful. Characters are cursory but relevant.
Letters of Note: C. S. Lewis on Writing
CS Lewis says what really matters.
Kurt Vonnegut's 8 rules for writing a short story | BookBaby Blog
Vonnegut urges you not to fluff it out and says exactly how to, as it were.
Hope that helps and doesn't confuse!
You're always going to see mistakes in your writing. Take that as incentive to improve. Write when you're interested in what you're writing, and don't write when you lose interest. Have goals in mind, but don't force yourself to adhere to that goal; examine yourself and learn what you're capable of.
And when you've taken all this mind-boggling text-heavy advice to heart, let it sink in and become a part of what you do. That way you won't be so confused by the thousands of different ways to approach a character.
My advice is simple. Be genuine. Don't write something you're uncomfortable with, don't stretch your skin too far. Write the character when you believe he can actually be as you imagine. So, sure, do your research and test out your skills, but when it comes to characters... let them come to you.
That being said, I've held to two main pieces of advice when I write. I did a lot of research in the past, and found these the most helpful. Characters are cursory but relevant.
Letters of Note: C. S. Lewis on Writing
CS Lewis says what really matters.
Kurt Vonnegut's 8 rules for writing a short story | BookBaby Blog
Vonnegut urges you not to fluff it out and says exactly how to, as it were.
Hope that helps and doesn't confuse!
