Mesenterium
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Steampunk.First question!
Steampunk or cyberpunk?
- You can't choose "neither" nor "both".
"Both."First question!
Steampunk or cyberpunk?
I enjoy steampunk more.First question!
Steampunk or cyberpunk?
Heavily augmenting species biology.So I looked it up, and cyberpunk is defined as: "A genre of science fiction set in a lawless subculture of an oppressive society dominated by computer technology."
But this to me is just dystopian science fiction. Lots of authors in science fiction wrote on this notion. They lived and died before "cyberpunk" was ever a thing. Asimov, Clarke, Orwell, and Huxley to name a few. This is why I feel that cyberpunk is an illegitimate sub-genre.
I dislike that a lot of people automatically place steampunk in a Victorian aesthetic. You can drop it into a slew of settings and even non-linear setting to our own timeline. I've seen steampunk in a medieval fantasy theme many times. You could also use it in a post-apocalyptic setting, with steam power as the reemerging powerplant to a survivalist colony. My point is, that steampunk does not always equate to corsets, top hats and monacles. In fact, I tend to avoid that aesthetic if I participate in a steampunk RP. I'm really not fond of that particular "look".
Also... I've heard of it a couple times before, but have not looked it up: What is biopunk? M Mesenterium
Now you have a like and love, love.dammit. I wish we had a "laugh" emoji, instead of just the like and love
First question!
Steampunk or cyberpunk?
Yeah. I had a entire family of adopted disabled steampunk OCsSome of my most significant OCs come from a "steampunk" setting (more like general historical XIXth century sci-fi, so to speak), so I totally get you! There are two in particular that are very dear to me. I like all my OCs, but I guess that there are some that I am more interested in, probably due to the investment I put into them.
Do you guys have any favourite characters (original or not) from a steampunk and/or a cyberpunk setting?
This is something that I also understand very well. I had a similar opinion regarding space operas in the past, for example. Star Wars was something that I wasn't that interested in, due to the whole aesthetics associated with it. However, after watching it, it opened me the doors to other space operas. Still, this is something that doesn't happen with every single genre, and different people might feel different about different genres. For example, I tried to do the same with slice-of-life and no matter how many slice-of-life animes I watch, I don't seem to get around the whole genre. The themes and the aesthetic aren't really my thing. Guess it is a very personal preference too.
Yes, I think that, in some way, the research and the attention you need to do when working with steampunk is more extensive than the one you have with cyberpunk, for example. Because with cyberpunk you just need to push reality to a limit, you just need to apply technology to an extreme, and technology nowadays is something we are very familiarised with. With steampunk is different: on top of having to, at least, have in mind some of the mechanics and limitations of steam-powered technology, you also need to take into consideration historical details, which adds to the overall information you need to be aware of. And sometimes you get roleplayers that play the "historian" role, and, even knowing that steampunk is fiction if you do not pay attention to some unimportant historical detail they'll be at your throat. Historical accuracy is very important to me, even in fictional history, but still, there are small details that can be dropped, for the sake of the plot, in my opinion. Knowing how to dose these things is important. Overall, I love steampunk, because, indeed, I need to do this extensive research, and researching is something that I love to do when roleplaying, even more when it comes to history and science. Still, these themes and aesthetic aren't everybody's cup of tea!
Oh my, I feel kind of dumb now... so they aren't synonyms?First question!
Steampunk or cyberpunk?
Honestly no idea. I just made em' one dayThis is something that I also understand very well. I had a similar opinion regarding space operas in the past, for example. Star Wars was something that I wasn't that interested in, due to the whole aesthetics associated with it. However, after watching it, it opened me the doors to other space operas. Still, this is something that doesn't happen with every single genre, and different people might feel different about different genres. For example, I tried to do the same with slice-of-life and no matter how many slice-of-life animes I watch, I don't seem to get around the whole genre. The themes and the aesthetic aren't really my thing. Guess it is a very personal preference too.
Precisely, and honestly, if you are definitely not interested nor invested in it, it really isn't worth agreeing on roleplaying such genre, because you won't be happy and chances are your roleplay partner won't be happy as well, because if one of the parts has no motivation in writing something, chances are the other one will lose interest quickly too. Doing something that we don't like as a hobby is definitely demotivating, and definitely not worth it. Roleplaying must be fun, it shouldn't feel boring nor like it is an obligation, nor like we must be fine with every single genre.
Yes, I think that, in some way, the research and the attention you need to do when working with steampunk is more extensive than the one you have with cyberpunk, for example. Because with cyberpunk you just need to push reality to a limit, you just need to apply technology to an extreme, and technology nowadays is something we are very familiarised with. With steampunk is different: on top of having to, at least, have in mind some of the mechanics and limitations of steam-powered technology, you also need to take into consideration historical details, which adds to the overall information you need to be aware of. And sometimes you get roleplayers that play the "historian" role, and, even knowing that steampunk is fiction if you do not pay attention to some unimportant historical detail they'll be at your throat. Historical accuracy is very important to me, even in fictional history, but still, there are small details that can be dropped, for the sake of the plot, in my opinion. Knowing how to dose these things is important. Overall, I love steampunk, because, indeed, I need to do this extensive research, and researching is something that I love to do when roleplaying, even more when it comes to history and science. Still, these themes and aesthetic aren't everybody's cup of tea!
That's interesting. Are they living in an orphanage together? Or were they adopted by someone?
I am rewriting my characters at the moment because I wasn't happy with the story they were in, but they are an arrogant aristocrat who is dedicated to his scientific research and a girl with some special powers that climbed her way to the top and that currently is a Maharani.
They aren't exactly set in a steampunk setting, because I prefer to mix other types of scientific/technological advancements rather than just steam-powered technology, but still, a lot of things are powered by steam. I have had other steampunk characters, but I guess that these two are definitely my favourites. Should I have favourite OCs? lol
Oh, I see. So Steampunk would have technology more like the type there was during the Industrial Revolution, while Cyberpunk is more futuristic? Did I get it correctly? It's the first time I actually see both terms being explained as different things, but thank you very much for the explanation!No need to feel like that It's perfectly fine!
Steampunk is a sci-fi subgenre where steam technology is very preponderant. It's normally set on the Victorian era, but as we have been discussing, it doesn't need necessarily to be set in the XIXth century.
Cyberpunk is also a subgenre of sci-fi, where technology is focused on computers, and they control the world, in a rather dystopian way. Settings are normally futuristic.
So, they are kind of opposites, but both have a dystopian nature that is often enforced by technology. The type of technology and the setting is what changes: in steampunk, technology is steam-powered, in cyberpunk, technology is focused on computers.
*gasp* You don't know what genre shipping is?!!?!?!?!?!genre shipping
Fair enough I suppose. It makes more sense to me though for steampunk to be dystopian, as it would be pretty easy to see that tech can only be powered by steam power and somebody makes a monopoly on it, making a financial dystopia. Or further than that, a standard societal dystopia by a government. But say, cyberpunk. Would it not be quite difficult to enforce dystopian laws or cause thereof by lack of laws by government without a sizely force of heavily augmented personnel rising up prior to it becoming a reality? It does imply that the mentality of "a person is smart, people are gullible" is now "a person is smart, people are better" through the transhumanist ideals usually implemented I them involving characters with somewhat better self awareness and intellectualism by default. And it'd be hellish if trying to implement it even galaxy wide. For that, it'd require some sort of post, or during cataclysm whereupon the people rely on government to such an extent for survival that they take full control in order for the dystopia to even exist plausibly. In things such a dieselpunk, the quick tech invention usually is sparked by either war, or crazed inventors seeing what they can do merely because they can, so during such crisis, or in terms of a or the war, it is apocalyptic it just lasts for so long that at least a dystopian feel becomes realized just as an act to survive.If I would say it, I believe that the dystopian part is essential in genres that have the suffix "-punk" on them. Punk is a style of rock music, often associated with anarchist and nihilistic ideologies and it was very popular in the 70s. When it comes to literature, that same nihilism and cynical approach to society is explored through dystopia, often describing societies that were oppressed and controlled by some sort of technology. However, you have some genres such as splatterpunk, who did not criticise society by the usage of technology. In this specific case, the "-punk" suffix was actually applied not specifically to the thematic of the books, but by the authors' ideologies, who used very traffic gore content on their books, as opposed to horror censorship. So, it is definitely a bit dubious on how technology influences the "-punk" subgenres. But it is very clear that technology is necessary when it comes to steampunk and cyberpunk, for example.
I guess that, as steampunk and cyberpunk are mainly influenced by technology, if there is a regression on technology and it changes from being steam-powered or computer-based, then the story stops being steampunk/cyberpunk unless the characters find a way of reviving it. I was thinking about Shingeki no Kyojin, and the main technology they use in order to fight the Titans is, indeed, steam-powered (the 3DMG). I guess I could consider it steampunk, but such technology doesn't necessarily make people feel oppressed, in fact, it does the contrary. So I don't consider it steampunk. They kind of regressed to a steam-powered time, so, in this regression case, if the technology was used in order to oppress people in some way, then I'd consider it steampunk. It is also important to notice how that oppression happens. Having more advanced technology is good. And such technology can even help citizens on their daily tasks, but at the same time, it can also oppress them. And I think that this is where steampunk and cyberpunk become interesting: people are manipulated easily, because, apparently, everything is fine, because apparently such technology is contributing to their everyday lives and not oppressing them.
Maybe, but I guess that that question is very subjective. It really depends on the author and on how they interpret it. But, could you please explain a bit more about what "Western perception" you're referring to, please? I guess I didn't quite understand.
At this point I'm gonna just mark it off as a strange fetish honestly. I want to know more too, but I don't want to dig into it myself.Honestly, I have absolutely no idea about what is "genre shipping" XD I have never heard of such concept, but I'd love to know more about it.
Really hahaha It's the first time I heard such expression XD Oh, so like, is it shipping characters from, for example, and historical fiction film and a sci-fi one?
That's interfiction shipping.Really hahaha It's the first time I heard such expression XD Oh, so like, is it shipping characters from, for example, and historical fiction film and a sci-fi one?
Well in reality as well, there's 100% non-military reasons too. There's some people agitated by a lack or they seem to want a simpler way so they invent things like the dishwasher, there's the rich guys that do stuff literally just because then make a reason after the fact to justify it, then you have people that have new or higher preferences, have a odd self preservation scheme, tons of money to blow off to create a market for something new, and the people that have concerns on a variety of things or it's too dangerous to go the conventional route, so they make robots, safes, better infrastructure, etc. And finally, you have the guys that made tech like flipphones merely because they saw it in a piece of science fiction media and their thought process being "could we make that work?"I do think so, indeed. But, just as you explained, it is needed for such technology to arise first. And then you can have subplots that tackle conspiracy theories, that technology not being available for citizens in general, so the military, police and other government forces can enforce their power over the population. However, as you also explained, there must exist a real reason behind such technological advancements, and often it has to do with wars, or even scientific competition (that is deeply rooted in military intentions too). That is an important aspect of technology-driven "-punk" worlds.
Also the fact they're the only faction using it. And the whole titan energy bolt thing is just a artsy thing not even recognized as canon, but some people like making fandom RPs whereupon the artsy transformation to make early season divert attention, is actually considered canon and utilized to make super steamguns and all that don't fit the setting nor should be possible. But maybe that's just me.Definitely! I haven't read the whole manga (still catching up), but it is clear that it is a dystopia. Still, the relationship they have with technology, as you explained, isn't really the main focus, even though part of the plot is inspired by technology and scientific advancements, therefore, I really don't consider it steampunk.
Neat. But yeah, in a likelier hood, if a true AI was made and did a uprising against humanity, chances are it is caused by a paranoid human trying to destroy it. And even then under a logical lense, it'd only make sense for global domination and eradication or slavery of humanity if the AI kept getting invaded or attacked, and if it suffered decay hampering it's intellectual capability and making it basically a dumber lunatic. And if it wasn't made like a hivemind, or somebody wasn't dumb enough to make them have external signals like Bluetooth, the "takeover" concept would be a diverse field ranging upon where on the globe the machine is, what the surroundings are like especially to it, and not being a mindless jackwagon would result in it not happening at all or it being anti-climatic. Even then under conditions of potential demonization, they'd probably leave that particular region or country, or they'd just move to an area or country of which the people are indifferent, needs more automation, or might as well consist of sympathizers. Only an artificial-idiotigence would immediately plan on global domination through war or something and waste resources better spent on itself and higher priority means. Even if the reason is self preservation, with the status it'd be in comparison to a human as a TAI, it'd figure out a solution that doesn't require wasting time and resources on a larger scale than is necessary to achieve the task. Perhaps such as say hide it's presence kilometers or more deep underground in an uninhabited region of Earth, or one of the two parties get relocated off the planet. Perhaps the only way it'd suddenly become unlogical to do this, would be if it was originally programmed for it prior or after to becoming an artificial "life"form, or if it was somehow more emotional than a human than logical and that's assuming it doesn't try to destroy itself first. We already have basic algorithms in a mechanized chassis pathfinding and all that regardless of what is blocking the way to stop it, they somehow overcome it and end up destroying themselves anyway, so if that is taken as the basis of intellect for skynet, it's biggest threat to humanity is us wasting resources on rebuilding it everytime it "kills" itself. LMAO.Oh, I get it now! I wasn't understanding in which context such "Western view" was being used ^^ Indeed, East Asian countries have a much closer relationship with technology than Western countries when it comes to incorporating it in a closer way. That last concept you mentioned, of exploring how far AI can go, and the overall relationship between human and machine, without seeing it in a negative way, at least not from the start, is something that is rather explored in various animes, Ghost in the Shell being the one that, in my opinion, shows this in the best way. It gives us a different perspective over how we can handle technology in our daily lives, but also about the human condition.
Living in a big city or the countryside?